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Done with hip hop beats, I'm really loving this sound instead Plugin Presets/Expansions
Old 20th July 2014
  #61
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fun convo by they way...
Old 20th July 2014
  #62
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12tone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanC View Post
All art theory evolves (attempts to explain/understand) after the art. What matters artistically is intention...theoretically define *groove*...I define it as will power, intention, belief, living-it, being-it, doing-it.
?

there are many different connotations of groove...I could give you literally a 1000 page explanation...I doubt you want that.

Your shortsighted view of it doesn't necessarily shed new light on it btw...
Old 20th July 2014
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
?

there are many different connotations of groove...I could give you literally a 1000 page explanation...I doubt you want that.

Your shortsighted view of it doesn't necessarily shed new light on it btw...
The difference between you or me playing "mustang sally" vs Wilson explains it all. It ain't theory boss, it's intention. And like any version of art, intention is everything.

We either do what we set out to do, or we fail. Thats the gig.
Old 20th July 2014
  #64
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how in the hell would you know how I could play "mustang sally" whatever it may be?

I've played jazz, classical, funk, reggae, rock, free jazz, country, rockabilly, various world musics, you-name-it, with literally hundreds of bands...I am pretty confident I can hold my own playing many different kinds of music convincingly with feeling, and make people enjoy themselves and appreciate what I do...don't go assuming things without knowing anything about what you're assuming(with all due respect)
Old 20th July 2014
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
how in the hell would you know how I could play "mustang sally" whatever it may be?

I've played jazz, classical, funk, reggae, rock, free jazz, country, rockabilly, various world musics, you-name-it, with literally hundreds of bands...I am pretty confident I can hold my own playing many different kinds of music convincingly with feeling, and make people enjoy themselves and appreciate what I do...don't go assuming things without knowing anything about what you're assuming(with all due respect)
Sure you are a jack of all trades...you can do anything (kinda), but can you do you?
Old 20th July 2014
  #66
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For the record I struggle with this, I've also played in every type of band....(10's of?)thousands of gigs.

Let me ask you a question, do you like Bob Marley?
Old 20th July 2014
  #67
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yes, what's your point?
Old 20th July 2014
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanC View Post
For the record I struggle with this, I've also played in every type of band....(10's of?)thousands of gigs.

Let me ask you a question, do you like Bob Marley?
luv Bob Marley...
Old 20th July 2014
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
yes, what's your point?
My point is that no amount of *theory* or understanding of music will make you bob.

Bob is Bob because Bob is the real Bob.

You can only be the real you.

There is nothing wrong with being a craftsman either, but the pedantic study of bob marley will not make anyone a bob marley.

The only real viable theory of *art* is a fairly narcissistic self expression...everything else is a study of someone elses fairly narcissistic self expression.
Old 20th July 2014
  #70
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Also I ask that question because if someone doesn't like bob, I'm fairly certain they are a sociopath.
Old 20th July 2014
  #71
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He is who he is because of his experiences, the same goes for anyone else...

You seem to think if one is 'learned' then they must be devoid of other certain intangibles...that in of itself is a fallacy - it could be true or it may not...

It all depends on the individual, there is no sense in stereotyping or pigeonholing people, because in the end those sort of things always have exceptions, and are often proven wrong.

Just because you may believe certain things maybe true to your belief system, it doesn't necessarily apply universally to everything else...have an open mind I say, and be inclusive of all possibilities - that's what life is...
Old 20th July 2014
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
He is who he is because of his experiences, the same goes for anyone else...

You seem to think if one is 'learned' then they must be devoid of other certain intangibles...that in of itself is a fallacy - it could be true or it may not...

It all depends on the individual, there is no sense in stereotyping or pigeonholing people, because in the end those sort of things always have exceptions, and are often proven wrong.

Just because you may believe certain things maybe true to your belief system, it doesn't necessarily apply universally to everything else...have an open mind I say, and be inclusive of all possibilities - that's what life is...
Sure-

If anyone says xyz is the path to artistic success they are instantly proved wrong by those who have done abc instead.

I have no problem with being "learned", but I do have an axe to grind is with those who think being "learned" is the only viable path.

But more importantly those who would be writers, don't gain that much by studying those who write.

What writers do is write.
Old 20th July 2014
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanC View Post
I have no problem with being "learned", but I do have an axe to grind is with those who think being "learned" is the only viable path.
whoever says that is a fool, but you seem to be sort of obtuse in defending the opposite (no offense intended)...
Old 20th July 2014
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanC View Post
But more importantly those who would be writers, don't gain that much by studying those who write.

What writers do is write.
That is utter BS. Writers read avidly as well as practising writing. Any writer (of any note) that claims otherwise is a liar, including GB Shaw.
Old 20th July 2014
  #75
As it happens, my girlfriend is a professional writer, and a damn good one. She absolutely studies other writers, the same way I study others' productions and mixes, or (to bring it back around to the jazz thing) the same way I love picking apart Elvin and Tony's playing, or a Wayne Shorter composition.
Old 20th July 2014
  #76
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I have to disagree with a lot posters here. You don't need theory to play jazz. A lot of jazz musicians play by ear and feel.

The best way to learn is to find a local jazz band and jam with them.
Old 20th July 2014
  #77
Quote:
Originally Posted by miscend View Post
I have to disagree with a lot posters here. You don't need theory to play jazz. A lot of jazz musicians play by ear and feel.

The best way to learn is to find a local jazz band and jam with them.
But for an individual with zero experience playing any of the instruments who is planning to program an entire combo with only VIs (in other words, the OP), some knowledge of music theory is gonna be a huuuuge plus.
Old 20th July 2014
  #78
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Man, this is getting super off topic. Theory does not have to be a formal learning experience. In fact, it doesn't have to be learned at all, for the creator of a style, it merely has to be developed. What that artist develops, then becomes theory to others, no matter how formally or informally it is taught to them. Learning from jamming with someone to learn how to play with them, is learning theory. To say that jazz has no music theory behind it is pretty ludicrous to me.
Old 20th July 2014
  #79
Exactly. Theory doesn't dictate how music is made; the music being made dictates the theory invented to explain it.
Old 21st July 2014
  #80
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done with hip hop beats, gonna be beethoven.
Old 21st July 2014
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncoak View Post
done with hip hop beats, gonna be beethoven.
how about trying Harry Partch?

couldn't be worse than the trap crap or dubstep putridness sullying and defiling the musical landscape of late...
Old 21st July 2014
  #82
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e-cue's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sixxis View Post
So I was wondering does anyone on here make jazz using Ableton ?

What are some of the elements I should have and important pointers
Sidechain the kick drum.

LFO your NI wobs.

Autotune your vocals.

Add some "hey" chants in the verse.

Use the fab filter limiter, and pull down the threshold until you only see red.
Old 21st July 2014
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
how about trying Harry Partch?

couldn't be worse than the trap crap or dubstep putridness sullying and defiling the musical landscape of late...
how do u harry partch in fl studio?
Old 21st July 2014
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncoak View Post
how do u harry partch in fl studio?
Pretend you're Avicii, but build and record your own instruments and use a 43 tone scale...
Old 22nd July 2014
  #85
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I love BOTH. Im bridging the gap between those 2 types of music, in myself.....little by little. Ive gone from one side of te fence to the other & back....& have found an amazing place somewhere in between....& that place is changing & evolving because Im inventing & learning at the same time. Its becoming the music I always wanted to make but never dreamed possible! One day at a time, baby steps
Old 22nd July 2014
  #86
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I just don't know how u can all of a sudden be over hip hop.
Old 22nd July 2014
  #87
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Ok, so my view is that people are multi-dimensional, they hear, the feel, they think, they perform. Some have a stronger ability to hear or perform; some to think and feel. Theory is mental, hearing..ya know, feeling-limbic region of the brain and performing-physical. Why not be committed to using all of these tools?
Old 22nd July 2014
  #88
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The jury is Out!!!!!! Music consists of a whole bunch of stuff.The most important for me is The Soul and Feeling!!!Supported by some throery and practice.But most of all Jammin'!!!
Old 23rd July 2014
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rd Degree View Post
Man, this is getting super off topic. Theory does not have to be a formal learning experience.
Right-

Ultimately this just comes down to how we define music theory. Some people are defining learning to play scales chords etc by ear as a form of theory, I don't see it that way, but that is besides the point. But in anycase I think we probably mostly agree that the pedagogical, book-fed path, isn't the only path.
Old 23rd July 2014
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto View Post
Exactly. Theory doesn't dictate how music is made; the music being made dictates the theory invented to explain it.
IME people who went to music school can't write music in the same way that I assume Amanda Palmer does. Not that one is better than the other, but the rote way is not bad either. I'm also guessing that you, Bennie know 100x more music theory in any colloquial since than she does...but she doesn't let that stop her from making records that people like.

Possibly she is a bad example and my assumption that she is a more rote type of artist is wrong, so insert whichever rote artist here.
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