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Over-Bassy Kick Drum Syndrome (When Referencing Mixes in Car Stereo w/sub) DAW Software
Old 12th March 2014
  #1
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Over-Bassy Kick Drum Syndrome (When Referencing Mixes in Car Stereo w/sub)

My mixes translate incredibly well on nearly ALL other mediums...except when playbacking them in my brothers SUV. The first and foremost evident problem, is how kick drums that sound so concise and crisp on other systems (for eg. quality studio monitors, comp. speakers, mono speaker, home stereo system, earbuds, headphones, cellphone). BUT when played in the SUV the kick drums sound muffled, overhyped, over-bassed and farty. Do you experience this issue from time to time? And how do you resolve such outcomes?
Old 12th March 2014
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petros View Post
My mixes translate incredibly well on nearly ALL other mediums...except when playbacking them in my brothers SUV. The first and foremost evident problem, is how kick drums that sound so concise and crisp on other systems (for eg. quality studio monitors, comp. speakers, mono speaker, home stereo system, earbuds, headphones, cellphone). BUT when played in the SUV the kick drums sound muffled, overhyped, over-bassed and farty. Do you experience this issue from time to time? And how do you resolve such outcomes?
resonance... a frequency in your song is resonating with the suv causing it to sound weird... it could just be the particular song in the SUV or it could be an actual problem with the song, try referencing it in another car system and see if you have the same issue
Old 12th March 2014
  #3
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I'm actually referencing my own mixes (instrumentals/beats) just to clarify. Hence why my concern is either maybe I'm doing something wrong, or missing something when crafting and mixing my work. Or perhaps its just the nature of the subwoofer (which is a very good and extremely powerful sub) thats in his SUV, that exaggerates all my low end. I don't know...its extremely frustrating!!
Old 12th March 2014
  #4
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Even though my tracks aren't exceptionally bass heavy, being from the Bay Area, CA, I think it's a necessity that music translates on car stereo systems with subs. However, remember that not all car systems are equal.

How do other tracks, both commercial and maybe something you have from a friend translate on that system? Not too unlike a control room, a car needs to be treated as well and the more powerful the system, the more treatment is needed. Speakers need to be tuned, crossover points need to be set, etc. It's to taste and doesn't need to be scientific but many install a system, or have someone else install a system and never touch this stuff. I can't tell you how bad some systems I have heard sound, even when using really high end components.

I would rule out the playback system before you start second guessing yourself. If it does sound good, you may want to add supplemental speakers with much more low end, a sub, or even an eq for referencing. I did all three for awhile. Though I don't mix with a sub, it's a good reference.
Old 12th March 2014
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petros View Post
I'm actually referencing my own mixes (instrumentals/beats) just to clarify. Hence why my concern is either maybe I'm doing something wrong, or missing something when crafting and mixing my work. Or perhaps its just the nature of the subwoofer (which is a very good and extremely powerful sub) thats in his SUV, that exaggerates all my low end. I don't know...its extremely frustrating!!
what are you doing on your bass / kick / 808s? are you compressing them a lot or adding something weird like "Maxx bass / Rbass" sometimes those plugins can make the low end sound smeary and ugly... honestly i feel like if you use quality drum samples the best way to treat them is to make sure they dont clash on your low end... maybe a small amount of eq or side chain compression between kick and bass you should be good as you are the producer, you should be selecting really good sounds out the gate... if you have to do too much and they sound bad in the ride you may want to get some good drum packs that have already been treated and ran thru ssl's and stuff lke that where you just have to turn em up for them to knock...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rd Degree View Post
Even though my tracks aren't exceptionally bass heavy, being from the Bay Area, CA, I think it's a necessity that music translates on car stereo systems with subs. However, remember that not all car systems are equal.

How do other tracks, both commercial and maybe something you have from a friend translate on that system? Not too unlike a control room, a car needs to be treated as well and the more powerful the system, the more treatment is needed. Speakers need to be tuned, crossover points need to be set, etc. It's to taste and doesn't need to be scientific but many install a system, or have someone else install a system and never touch this stuff. I can't tell you how bad some systems I have heard sound, even when using really high end components.

I would rule out the playback system before you start second guessing yourself. If it does sound good, you may want to add supplemental speakers with much more low end, a sub, or even an eq for referencing. I did all three for awhile. Though I don't mix with a sub, it's a good reference.

agreed... using a sub would be good to reference that way when you go to the car with the 15s you already have a good idea of what it will sound like... to me you should mix with no sub 90 percent of the time... but there is always little hidden dirt and problems that you won't catch deep in the sub range unless you have one... always turn your sub on to tweak once you think your mix is right, you will probobly hear something that needs cleaning up... also its best to do your sound selection with the sub on so you dont pick a kick / bass sample with something weird in the super low end that is hard to hear on regular monitors - especially with hip hop, just my opinion
Old 12th March 2014
  #6
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FyLe ForMatz's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Petros View Post
My mixes translate incredibly well on nearly ALL other mediums
post a mix then
Old 12th March 2014
  #7
DAH
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WTF? If you got issues with YOUR music then obviously you better post it.
Old 12th March 2014
  #8
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Yeah we'd be able to tell you if your bass is too loud if you linked us.

If it's all song in the SUV that are like that, it's probably because your brother just put in a sub and didn't care about his mids. Or that's just how he has it EQ'd because he likes it that way.
Old 12th March 2014
  #9
Gear Addict
Is it because of the bass boost in the car stereo? Even without subs, the bass in cars can get messy really quick...
Old 13th March 2014
  #10
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Sorry for not uploading any clips earlier. I don't upload my stuff online currently, so I ended up utilizing soundcloud for the first time just for this very reason. I have no idea how to "drop-box" or embed each track directly on the forum? Can someone please school me? So I'm just posting the general link to my page....ALL the tracks on the page (out of approximately 25 that I playbacked in the SUV) translated very awkwardly with regards to how the KICK DRUMS sounded. These ones stood out to me being the most problematic out of the batch. I really appreciate all the brainstorming, comments and help so far, thank you!

https://soundcloud.com/polychronis-tony-farmakis
Old 13th March 2014
  #11
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Sounds fine to me these beats are awesome
Old 13th March 2014
  #12
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I took a listen. I wish I had time to listen to it in my car on some subs as well, just to check on a similar system. I think my mind went to the SUV/stereo first for a reason.
Old 13th March 2014
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petros View Post
Sorry for not uploading any clips earlier. I don't upload my stuff online currently, so I ended up utilizing soundcloud for the first time just for this very reason. I have no idea how to "drop-box" or embed each track directly on the forum? Can someone please school me? So I'm just posting the general link to my page....ALL the tracks on the page (out of approximately 25 that I playbacked in the SUV) translated very awkwardly with regards to how the KICK DRUMS sounded. These ones stood out to me being the most problematic out of the batch. I really appreciate all the brainstorming, comments and help so far, thank you!

https://soundcloud.com/polychronis-tony-farmakis
I don't hear anything wild and crazy going on with the kicks. I'd definitely check some commercial stuff in the SUV to see how it sounds. Problem might be your brother's system.
Old 13th March 2014
  #14
Gear Addict
 

I asked him to set his eq/audio settings *flat* when we were listening to them....and from my knowledge all his woofers are in very condition. System is maybe a year old? High end pioneer make.
Old 13th March 2014
  #15
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Also curious...what are you guys streaming these on? Studio monitors? If so...what size & models? Sub - no sub ?
Old 13th March 2014
  #16
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I'm listening on KRK RP8s no sub
Old 13th March 2014
  #17
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47radAR's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Petros View Post
Also curious...what are you guys streaming these on? Studio monitors? If so...what size & models? Sub - no sub ?
Yamaha HS50's no sub. You still haven't told us what commercial releases sound like in the SUV.
Old 13th March 2014
  #18
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there ain't nothing sonically faulty with those tracks.

everything looks fine. everything sounds fine.

i'd blame the SUV woofers...maybe a speaker is blown, a fuse needs replacing, or the crossover point on the amp is set incorrectly.

check the settings on the deck, too.

these mixes ain't even slammed or nuttin'...not even mastered.

them joints is only like -12 RMS at the most. so it ain't no limiter artifacts or anything like that.

drive your SUV to a car audio installer and play them your **** and ask THEM what the problem is...because it IS the car system.

$.02
Old 13th March 2014
  #19
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@ Trell Blaze - the results where a mixed match varying on the different tracks I playes. But majority of other audio that I played sounded good. Although I do notice the "beefing" of kicks to be occuring generally in all mixes I play, either they be commericlal or my own. So perhaps its just my ear not being accustomed to the way tracks that I'm familiar with (as to how they sound in my own environment) compared to when they are played of suby systems. But I still do believe that with my mixes theres something more going on aside from just a standard "low end increase".


@Fyle Formatz. You are right I havent set any compressors, gates or limiters neither on any of my individual drum hits, or my master bus. Would this play an effect in any way, in relation to my concern??
Old 13th March 2014
  #20
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FyLe ForMatz's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Petros View Post
You are right I havent set any compressors, gates or limiters neither on any of my individual drum hits, or my master bus. Would this play an effect in any way, in relation to my concern??
it TOTALLY would.

most artifacts appear in POST; after mixing...generally due to over-processing.

your tracks have NO over-processing...your mixes are pretty clean...and that's why i'm saying that the SUV system is at fault.

the low-end in your mixes is still tame.

you do NOT have crazy **** going on in your mixes below 90hz...nor do you have anything abnormal going on below 200hz...so your mixes are fine...BLAME THE SPEAKERS.

AND

the reason why your mixes are translating fine everywhere BESIDES the SUV is because there ain't nuttin' crazy / faulty / abnormal about your mixes.

so don't waste anymore time referencing your mixes in the SUV until those woofers are REPAIRED or REPLACED...or RECONFIGURED...
Old 13th March 2014
  #21
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47radAR's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Petros View Post
@ Trell Blaze - the results where a mixed match varying on the different tracks I playes. But majority of other audio that I played sounded good. Although I do notice the "beefing" of kicks to be occuring generally in all mixes I play, either they be commericlal or my own. So perhaps its just my ear not being accustomed to the way tracks that I'm familiar with (as to how they sound in my own environment) compared to when they are played of suby systems. But I still do believe that with my mixes theres something more going on aside from just a standard "low end increase".


@Fyle Formatz. You are right I havent set any compressors, gates or limiters neither on any of my individual drum hits, or my master bus. Would this play an effect in any way, in relation to my concern??
You've solved your own problem.

As far as your tracks, of course they will definitely benefit across the entire range from professional mastering. There are things that you could do to improve your bottom end - there's always room to improve SOMETHING. It sounds good as is now but I think as you gain experience and listen in more different environments your low end will get better. The more your room and speakers improve the easier it will all be.

Again, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the bass it as is.
Old 13th March 2014
  #22
DAH
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Mixes are ok, however nearly all kicks in them have some bursting (not sine tails)content under 40Hz, that might be the reason of sounding woofy in the car with a sub. What chain you mix on? I am listening on Sennheisers HD580 now with custom EQ on the buss compensating them to be flat to 30 hz. Try to cut from 40-35 Hz and bring the focus in the kick to 100 Hz and the attack.
BTW Greece is nice!
Old 13th March 2014
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAH View Post
Mixes are ok, however nearly all kicks in them have some bursting (not sine tails)content under 40Hz, that might be the reason of sounding woofy in the car with a sub. What chain you mix on? I am listening on Sennheisers HD580 now with custom EQ on the buss compensating them to be flat to 30 hz. Try to cut from 40-35 Hz and bring the focus in the kick to 100 Hz and the attack.
BTW Greece is nice!
yes i noticed that... listening on my comptuer speakers the kicks on all songs are a little strong, but it doesnt really "ruin" the track and i can't imagine it sounding that bad on subs... but yea its a little strong like they hit a little too hard, almost like a punch, compared to the rest of the track... i would say just turn them down slightly and you should be good to go on the mix i dont c why those mixes wouldn't translate
Old 13th March 2014
  #24
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SEMS's Avatar
 

Just listened to the music, I definitely don't think the kicks are over-bassy. In fact, I think they're a bit bass-light!

Don't play my tracks on your brother's system, I might completely destroy his woofers lol

It's most likely something in the system itself that isn't sitting right with your tracks.
Old 13th March 2014
  #25
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I can hear the Boostin down low. instead of boosting on Basses kicks and master clean up the low end in the mix overall ass theres so much LF information on things that should be getting rolled off. It's a cumulative problem to be honest. Compressors are great at taming kicks.
Old 13th March 2014
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SEMS View Post
Just listened to the music, I definitely don't think the kicks are over-bassy. In fact, I think they're a bit bass-light!

Don't play my tracks on your brother's system, I might completely destroy his woofers lol

It's most likely something in the system itself that isn't sitting right with your tracks.
The problem is the OPS not his brothers system .. His tracks should excite the subs like a commercial recording and his low end is Flubby
Old 13th March 2014
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Karloff View Post
The problem is the OPS not his brothers system .. His tracks should excite the subs like a commercial recording and his low end is Flubby
I agree the low end is flubby, like I said it sounded very bass-light on my system (A7s w no sub, headphones). I thought OP was worried about "over-bassiness" if that's a word.
Old 13th March 2014
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SEMS View Post
I agree the low end is flubby, like I said it sounded very bass-light on my system (A7s w no sub, headphones). I thought OP was worried about "over-bassiness" if that's a word.
Its flubby Flubby-Sub material without a sub or decent room it might sound fine due to the problems being pretty low in frequency range.
Most personal rooms have poor low end response. and users aren't making the proper adjustments. If it sounds like its jumping out of subs in a car it means the tonal balance in the sub regions are off and you can't hear it in your room.

OP I would like to see pics of your room with a list of dimensions and what treatment is in there. I could tell you to attenuate certain freqs and to adjust balances and to compress the kick on song x or clear room with a notch so you can make room for the kick instead of just giving it more level, But I'd rather you fix the problem so give us some more info so we can help you
Old 13th March 2014
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SEMS View Post
I agree the low end is flubby, like I said it sounded very bass-light on my system (A7s w no sub, headphones). I thought OP was worried about "over-bassiness" if that's a word.
But bass-light and over-bassiness can go together, if there's too much energy in subsonics/unreproducible and not enough "point" in a range you can hear/feel.

I think that's the physics the OP wants to address. But there's tons of point on kick on the first tune, that focus sounds great IMO, and personally I dig the mix and sound you've got.

I suspect that the kick has a kind of hole under the pointed part, and then there is an inaudible mud *under* that hole, and that will make a sub wobble.

I've had the same thing happen when using ITB low shelf so now I prefer a gentle low shelf combined with a steep low cut way down low. With these long frequencies there's always some phase things to be wary of.
Old 13th March 2014
  #30
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Interesting to see the contrast of opinions. From earlier posters saying they can hear & feel a certain low-endish punchyness...to the latter views that these kicks are actually light. I will consider both sides respectfully and continue to investigate the issue. Thank you.

Mister Karloff thank you! I will message you soon with some more information.
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