The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Over-Bassy Kick Drum Syndrome (When Referencing Mixes in Car Stereo w/sub) DAW Software
Old 13th March 2014
  #31
Lives for gear
 
3rd Degree's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Petros View Post
Interesting to see the contrast of opinions. From earlier posters saying they can hear & feel a certain low-endish punchyness...to the latter views that these kicks are actually light. I will consider both sides respectfully and continue to investigate the issue. Thank you.

Mister Karloff thank you! I will message you soon with some more information.
I actually was going to listen to it on my car with subs but can never find 1/8 cables. From my monitors, as said, I don't think I heard anything too offensive to really ruin this on a system with subs, I just haven't verified this yet.

I think some difference of opinion may be from gauging the quality of the mix. I don't want to say this negatively but your mixes are not perfect. However, they are beats and that is fine. I found them to be pretty good. I myself don't ever mix my beats to perfection, I stop as there is no reason to go all the way as it will get mixed again, I just want them to sound good, not amazing (well, I should say pay good money to make them sound amazing). I am by no means downplaying your work, but if I were going to nitpick, they could be better in places but for what you are doing, I don't think it's a problem. I mean, you said you were not even using compression.

I may eat my words if I have the chance to test this, it is a good exercise for me if I do prove myself wrong so I actually want to give it a shot, who knows when I will have the time.
Old 14th March 2014
  #32
Lives for gear
 
FyLe ForMatz's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Petros View Post
Interesting to see the contrast of opinions
right.

some people know what they are talking about and others just attempt to convince themselves and others that they know what they are talking about.
Old 14th March 2014
  #33
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FyLe ForMatz View Post
right.

some people know what they are talking about and others just attempt to convince themselves and others that they know what they are talking about.
Troof
Old 14th March 2014
  #34
Gear Addict
Yeah, sounds like the tracks need some low end cut... This type of music would normally have some compression and limiter to make it "bang" so that also might be why it's going so crazy... the kicks not being tamed
Old 14th March 2014
  #35
Gear Maniac
 
cherrymusic's Avatar
 

Tracks on a musical level are fire...they sound fine on my headphones and Yamaha ns10/hs50 monitors...maybe get someone to master them
Old 14th March 2014
  #36
Gear Addict
 

Maybe part of my problem is that sometimes I choose kick drums that may "audio-aesthetically" appeal to me (texture wise), suiting them precisely for a particular track...and not taking into major consideration the intensity or lack of dynamic intensity in the actual kit. The first track "Lost Time Cannot Be Bought Back" is the perfect example. I already envisioned and wanted exactly the type of drum sounds that are on there now. The layered kicks that I choose actually have certain rustic textures and nuances, which most of your current electronic & urban drum sounds today do not have, cause everything is super clean and tight nowadays. So perhaps my ambition in desiring to have that rustic, old school, wooshhyy, brushy, fluff effect on my kick drum to complement the general feel of the track and the rawness of the upright bassline is now revealing itself to create other problems. I guess we can't always have the best of both worlds. If a certain track calls for the kick drum to have some tonal dirt, brush, muffleness and grime....than this will affect in some way or another the clarity & sonics of kick drum presentation. But regardless I'm sure there are key techniques that can contribute to finding a "happy medium". Such as compression and high-end accurate eq as mentioned by some of you.


But then again I never expected it to create such issues with subwoofer translations.
Old 14th March 2014
  #37
Gear Maniac
 
cherrymusic's Avatar
 

What gear and/or plugins do you use?
Old 14th March 2014
  #38
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tablo View Post
I personally think this would just need mastering, that's all...
Seriously. Fix it in the master. That's not the answer
Old 14th March 2014
  #39
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cherrymusic View Post
What gear and/or plugins do you use?
Not much really. I sequence everything on Acid Pro 7. Do a lot of pre-editing, chopping and cleaning in Adobe Audition 1.5 and just sample craploads of vinyl, flacs and mp3's. I don't have the processing to stack plug-ins unto my mixes yet...hopefully that'll change soon If I can buy a new system.
Old 14th March 2014
  #40
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Karloff View Post
Seriously. Fix it in the master. That's not the answer
record it wrong...

oh well well fix it in the mix


mix it wrong


oh well we'll fix it in the master


master it wrong


oh well it'll sound better as an mp3

lol
Old 3rd April 2014
  #41
Gear Addict
 

I just wanted to update some information about the process that I used to create some of these tracks which I believe can help clarify part of my problem.

1) First thing is that majority of these tracks where produced on headphones. Specifically a pair of Sony 7506's. Which are pretty neutral for the most part. Hence why low end/ bass representation can be quite limiting & weak when mixing everything solely on cans.

2) I recently realized again after revisiting some of these sessions, that I had a tendency of just going A-wall sometimes with eq-ing the crap out of these kicks...At times I would often boost between the 20hz - 100hz (aside from the 400hz-1.5khz that I would also boost as well)...which on my headphones would translate & sound incredibly nice for some reason, tight and knocky. But when played on subs, all of a sudden you could hear a certain boominess overpowering and masking that initial "knock" that was presented on my headphones.

3) I also had a tendency in stacking a good number of kick drums together....sometimes as many as 4 or 5 at once. I would micro-nudge them and reverse phase sometimes if needed to avoid frequency clash or cancellation...even pitch them in tune, with one another. It's just that all the low end eq, lets say on 4-5 kicks eventually could get pretty ugly from what I understood & learned overtime later on.


3) I used to be quite illiterate about compression, limiting and taming peaks in kick drums...until more recently studying and watching Youtube vids. Also my ****ty Acer laptop has zero capabilities in handling the live inserts of compressors and other such Vst's...so I have never been able to properly utilize such tools because of low ram & weak processing speed even when I wanted too. I hope with the purchase of my new system that all this will change soon!!!


I'm assuming my first step would be in revisiting & to start editing & eq down the 20hz-100hz ranges on those kick drums.


I also uploaded another track bellow which I played on the subs just the other day...that seems to have the same issue as the others. If YOU have monitors that can reach pretty low, or have a subwoofer. Please take a listen and let me know what is that YOU hear. Tell me if what you hear is acceptable or proper for a mix. Is anything about the kick drum really out of the ordinary?? Any feedback helps!!



Old 4th April 2014
  #42
mixmixmix
Guest
If you use sine wave under your kicks, make sure its frequency is not to low. If you mix without a sub it is very easy to overdo it. Good luck
Old 4th April 2014
  #43
mp3
Lives for gear
 

Try cutting a db or 2 around 320hz (actually anywhere between 240 and 500 depending on the kick). Should do the trick for rebelious, lost time, etc.

For the track Yesterday, you might want to try boosting at 160ish and cutting at 50-80. Just slight adjustments.

Caveat, I'm listening on my work PC with el cheapo headphones.
Old 9th April 2014
  #44
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mixmixmix View Post
If you use sine wave under your kicks? make sure its frequency is not to low. If you mix without a sub it is very easy to overdo it. Good luck
What is the end result in blending/layering a sine wav under kick drums? I've heard of this once before, but never understood the theory and reason behind it? Does this technique somehow allow kick drums to cut through a mix more fiercely ??
Old 10th April 2014
  #45
Lives for gear
 
jbrown1music's Avatar
you could try eqing the bass on the kick with a pultec style eq to attenuate the mud out the kicks. also try mixing a parallel kick in for a super short mid punchy kick to balance out the overall kick sound. many different things you could do. you can also sculpt the kick with a transient designer too
Old 12th April 2014
  #46
i'm surprised no one's said this yet but...
isn't it possible your kick is simply too damn loud in the first place?
TURN IT DOWN ALL THE WAY DOWN FIRST. and then listen to it. and then slowly bring it back up.
Old 13th April 2014
  #47
Like Godson alluded to, for one your kicks (or some frequency within the kick) is too high. They spike way over everything else but sound 'balanced', which leads me to believe there is too much sub freq that's being brought out. I would imagine you are EQing them too much, especially below 80hz. Don't use a shelf EQ, use a parametric. Some that I heard sound boxy and like they might even have reverb on them. I think reverb on kicks is generally a bad idea. To get a full sounding kick try to layer a punchy hi freq one, with a boxy one, also with a deep one. It helps to have a sub when constructing a kick. My low end was always too pronounced when I mixed on PA speakers because they can't hit below 55hz, but now I use yamaha HS5's with the sub and my mixes are way cleaner because of it. [everything on my soundcloud is pre-new speakers so don't take them as an example, trying to finish an album before releasing singles]
Old 14th April 2014
  #48
Nrt
Lives for gear
 

Comparing your mix with your favorite mix on spectrum analyzer would help.
Old 15th April 2014
  #49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petros View Post
What is the end result in blending/layering a sine wav under kick drums? I've heard of this once before, but never understood the theory and reason behind it? Does this technique somehow allow kick drums to cut through a mix more fiercely ??
an 808 kick drum is nothing but a sine wave playing at 50Hz. it's amazing how many people don't know that these days. by the way, this doesn't work if the kick you're trying to layer already has too much low end on its own, so cut it out if it does, that way you can get the "click" at the top of the kick and the "bump" under it.
Old 16th April 2014
  #50
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Godson View Post
an 808 kick drum is nothing but a sine wave playing at 50Hz. it's amazing how many people don't know that these days. by the way, this doesn't work if the kick you're trying to layer already has too much low end on its own, so cut it out if it does, that way you can get the "click" at the top of the kick and the "bump" under it.
How do I determine if my kick drum has too much low end, that this technique will then not work?? And could you ellaborate a lil more on getting that knock or "click" sound as you described by utilizing a sine wav. ? Thanks for your help!
Old 16th April 2014
  #51
use a spectrum analyzer or EQ with an analyzer in it (assuming you're using FL Studio, the Parametric EQ2 works for this) and see which freqs your kick is occupying. once you've determined where your problem areas are, roll off everything below 100Hz on the lighter drum so that it fits on top of the 808 kick you're layering it with. i usually process all the kicks in one channel as opposed to in separate channels (unless totally necessary) because it makes them sound more natural in my experience. i also don't layer more than two kicks normally, and the kicks you choose should START at the same time. if one of them is off by a few milliseconds, correct it by messing with the ADSR controls. by the way i heard your song, i definitely see what you mean when you say you like the oldschool music. very cool tracks by the way!
Old 23rd April 2014
  #52
Lives for gear
 
ohsnap's Avatar
 

Most probably, your room sucks.
Old 3rd May 2014
  #53
Lives for gear
 
pqlia's Avatar
‘Wild guesses’ are not always helpful ………..

But …..

. . . . . I could take a wild guess that your pleasing sounding (to me) un-hyped mixes by today’s standards are ‘thuddy’ on your friends very 'suby' system simply because they are … well… very un-hyped! … and I could take another wild guess that the mastered references you are comparing to are more ‘present’ and dynamic in the mids and highs and so there is therefore more ‘snap’ and ‘sparkle’ to cut through your friends very suby system making the lows on your references appear to be more controlled than your mixes.
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump