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How does Dr. Dre get his kick & bass so wide?
Old 19th October 2013
  #1
Gear Head
 

How does Dr. Dre get his kick & bass so wide?

For example (This track isn't even mastered)


I got my kick and bass sounding super tight in mono. I slap that Stereo Enhancer (Or stereo shaper, can't remember) effects in FL Studio. Use the preset "Steroize 2" or "stereoize 3" it sounds like **** in mono, but then sounds decent in stereo.

How the hell does Dre do it? I haven't checked this track in mono, but I'm sure it still sounds hot.

Oh, and I tried making 2 tracks for my kick/bass, panning hard left and right, then slightly delaying the kick/bass panned hard right in the sequences... but it still sounds whack.
Old 19th October 2013
  #2
Just a quick correction, this track is produced by DJ Khalil, not Dre. And yeah his drums knock. Last time I was up in his (old) studio a while back he was making his tracks with Reason. So most likely any stereo type effects you hear on these drums come right from Reason, because his tracks basically sound like this coming straight out of there before they're even mixed.
Old 19th October 2013
  #3
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A wide kick will probably require some reverb or room ambience if it's recorded, a wide bass may need a stereo widener with everything below 200hz (at least) remaining in mono.

In the end, width perception comes from about 1k and above, so these things are usually best left in the center.
Old 20th October 2013
  #4
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e-are's Avatar
^ Exactly. You don't want to haas effect a kick drum. At least not the low frequency stuff. Mult the track, roll off the low end and spread that or just add a tight darkish verb rolling off the low end.
Old 20th October 2013
  #5
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abaga129's Avatar
 

Well the big mistake is using a stereo enhancement tool to spread your kick and bass. I try to avoid stereo enhancers at all cost because they work by using phase cancellation to make things sound wider. When you do this you have to trade mono capability and integrity of the audio for a wider sound.

To make a kick wider, a short reverb should be the ticket.

And doubling bass and panning hard left and right actually shouldn't be a problem.
Old 20th October 2013
  #6
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I'd be looking at layered kicks, with some elements providing solidity and power, others click/attack, and others stereo width. If you want an instrument dedicated to this sort of stuff check out Stretch That Note's DRUMM for Kontakt. It's probably not what's being used here, but does make that whole sort of thing ridiculously easy.

Sent from my GT-I9300
Old 20th October 2013
  #7
DJ Khalil is really big on processing his sounds
Old 21st October 2013
  #8
Gear Maniac
 
Infinite Ways's Avatar
 

Try everything just **** around till you get something you like that's what I do at least and its a lot of fun even if most of the time it's sound meh
Old 21st October 2013
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e-are View Post
^ Exactly. You don't want to haas effect a kick drum. At least not the low frequency stuff. Mult the track, roll off the low end and spread that or just add a tight darkish verb rolling off the low end.
Very effective. I am starting to do this a lot, I run bass thru that channel too.

Its just the same IR everytime, I will keep doing it until it stops working so good.
Old 21st October 2013
  #10
Here for the gear
 

It sounds like what is happening here is pretty minimal as far as processing ONE kick to make it sound wide. I'd be wiling to bet he treated the kick (and bass) like you would treat vocals to sound wide (at times). That is, you have you "main" kick and bass in the middle (mono) and he likely made and left and a right copy for them. To cut mud and clutter on the left and right channels, I'll bet he rolled off the lows. So, you have the main kick with the lows and just the middle-high frequency copies to the sides. Just as someone said earlier about wideness being associated with the 1k region, that is more or less what we are doing here (letting the mid-hi stuff breath on the sides without the low on the sides "mucking" things up.
Old 26th November 2013
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StringBean View Post
A wide kick will probably require some reverb or room ambience if it's recorded, a wide bass may need a stereo widener with everything below 200hz (at least) remaining in mono.

In the end, width perception comes from about 1k and above, so these things are usually best left in the center.
Why should everything below 200hz remain in Mono?
Old 26th November 2013
  #12
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by abaga129 View Post
Well the big mistake is using a stereo enhancement tool to spread your kick and bass. I try to avoid stereo enhancers at all cost because they work by using phase cancellation to make things sound wider. When you do this you have to trade mono capability and integrity of the audio for a wider sound.

To make a kick wider, a short reverb should be the ticket.

And doubling bass and panning hard left and right actually shouldn't be a problem.
BIG FAT DISAGREE!

Check your mixes back in forth from stereo and mono and you shouldn't have a problem!
Old 26th November 2013
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pumper View Post
Why should everything below 200hz remain in Mono?
Spreads the energy of the LFs equally among all speakers in your playback system... which means you can make better use of the available headroom... not to mention that in a club setting you'll get the power of the LFs from your nearest speaker wherever you are.

Sent from my GT-I9300
Old 27th November 2013
  #14
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mixedup View Post
Spreads the energy of the LFs equally among all speakers in your playback system... which means you can make better use of the available headroom... not to mention that in a club setting you'll get the power of the LFs from your nearest speaker wherever you are.

Sent from my GT-I9300
In clubs everything is played in Mono...

Imo... as long as there LFs are balanced (not cenetered, but x amount of LFs coming from left and x amount LFs coming from right) it sounds good to my ears.
Old 27th November 2013
  #15
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pumper. View Post
For example (This track isn't even mastered)


I got my kick and bass sounding super tight in mono. I slap that Stereo Enhancer (Or stereo shaper, can't remember) effects in FL Studio. Use the preset "Steroize 2" or "stereoize 3" it sounds like **** in mono, but then sounds decent in stereo.

How the hell does Dre do it? I haven't checked this track in mono, but I'm sure it still sounds hot.

Oh, and I tried making 2 tracks for my kick/bass, panning hard left and right, then slightly delaying the kick/bass panned hard right in the sequences... but it still sounds whack.
could be the samples he is using, nice sounding samples tend to sound fat and large even wide. also u gotta know his songs are done by him, and he is one of the best producers in rap, so its gonna be hard to get on his level. keep trying you will figure it out... its not that hard trial and error...

one thing u dont want to do tho is have anything in stereo under 80 hz or so... if your using a stereo widener its best not to use it on the drums / bass keep those center and mono with no extra widening... if the sound is not working get different drums that usually works high quality samples work wonders... btw the drums that come with fl studio r not going to give you dr dre sound quality.. lol get some high quality drum libraries u wont have to do nothing to em... just turn em up
Old 27th November 2013
  #16
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by light View Post
could be the samples he is using, nice sounding samples tend to sound fat and large even wide. also u gotta know his songs are done by him, and he is one of the best producers in rap, so its gonna be hard to get on his level. keep trying you will figure it out... its not that hard trial and error...

one thing u dont want to do tho is have anything in stereo under 80 hz or so... if your using a stereo widener its best not to use it on the drums / bass keep those center and mono with no extra widening... if the sound is not working get different drums that usually works high quality samples work wonders... btw the drums that come with fl studio r not going to give you dr dre sound quality.. lol get some high quality drum libraries u wont have to do nothing to em... just turn em up
Honestly bro... I'm breaking all the rules on my current project. I'm trusting my ears. Checking the mix in mono, stereo, on different outputs, etc... Basically if it sounds hot, even if I'm breaking the rules, I'm doing it.

I'm going to make a thread on it b/c the mix is sounding really dope so far and everything is POPPING at you. Stay tuned!
Old 27th November 2013
  #17
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pumper. View Post
Honestly bro... I'm breaking all the rules on my current project. I'm trusting my ears. Checking the mix in mono, stereo, on different outputs, etc... Basically if it sounds hot, even if I'm breaking the rules, I'm doing it.

I'm going to make a thread on it b/c the mix is sounding really dope so far and everything is POPPING at you. Stay tuned!
ok cool ill check it out
Old 30th November 2013
  #18
Gear Addict
 
rhythmic5's Avatar
 

specific advice: try using the waves NLS channel plugin on the 'mike' setting. if you boost the gain of channel (turn it as loud as it'll go before clipping), it adds a super wide stereo effect that collapses perfectly into mono. I use it all of the time on 808 drums.
Old 1st December 2013
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pumper View Post
Why should everything below 200hz remain in Mono?
Not everything should be, but transients like kick, tom, and bass lose impact when the low end is spread real wide. Also the phase cancellations when collapsed to mono are particularly aggregious in the low end.
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