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Was Dre really the first to come up eith that sound?
Old 17th October 2013
  #1
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Was Dre really the first to come up eith that sound?

Im not the biggest Hiphop nerd out there, but I've realized, that there has been a giant leap in sonic quality, ever since Dr Dre came out with the 2001 record. And Im not just talking Hiphop, but all music in general. I can fz. easily her similarities in Skrillex today and the 2001 record.
That really crispy, loud, clear and punchy sound, sounded unlike anything else I've personally ever heard in Hiphop, until 1999 where the album came out.
And still to this day, it sounds like it could have been put out in 2013.
Was he really the first guy, to do that sound? Or has it been around in "underground" hiphop or something before? Cause it seems a little crazy that this 1 album changed so much by itself.
Chronic or Doggystyle doesn't by far have this sound. Even though I like those records more than 2001, they still have a "90's vibe" to them. 2001 sounds more modern.
Old 17th October 2013
  #2
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Sampler Man's Avatar
I think Dre can be largely accredited for this sound. It wasn't achievable in underground hip hop as indi producers did not have the gear to achieve superb sonic quality. There is a trade off to using this type of sound in hip hop. What you gain in sonic quality you lose in grit. I hear a lot of tough talk on Chronic 2001 but I don't find it a tough record as its too glossy. It's comparable to old horror movies shot in 16mm vs new digital formats. To me a lot of the creepiness of the old movies were from the grainy film.
Old 17th October 2013
  #3
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I always thought 'Mc Serch - Here it Come's, was crazy hi fi compared to any other hip hop at the time or later..
Old 17th October 2013
  #4
DAH
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DAH's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sampler Man View Post
I think Dre can be largely accredited for this sound. It wasn't achievable in underground hip hop as indi producers did not have the gear to achieve superb sonic quality. There is a trade off to using this type of sound in hip hop. What you gain in sonic quality you lose in grit. I hear a lot of tough talk on Chronic 2001 but I don't find it a tough record as its too glossy. It's comparable to old horror movies shot in 16mm vs new digital formats. To me a lot of the creepiness of the old movies were from the grainy film.
Yes, 2001 sounds VERY cinematic.
Old 17th October 2013
  #5
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He was using smartly placed high pass filtering generously though, if I understand correctly.

Would that lend towards glossier, tighter and more punchy tracks?
Old 17th October 2013
  #6
ATLiens sounds pretty polished, HiFi-ish to me. That was 96 I believe.
Old 17th October 2013
  #7
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Even Timberland was sounding hifi before then.

Funny enough Timberland claims to have started both Dubstep and the current the current trend of euro dance/trance influenced urban music.
Old 18th October 2013
  #8
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Its technology, imo. Every era has a sound based on how the technology was built at that time. The 60s sound different from the 70s, 70s sound different from the 80s, and so on. Music has gotten progressively cleaner since the beginning, as gear companies continue to strive for cleaner sound. Cleaner doesn't equal better though as we have found out with where technology and music has gotten to today. Its cleaner, but at the expense of tone, which these companies have forgotten is the more important quality, but I digress...

To answer your question, I don't think todays sound has anything to do with the 2001 album, because todays sound, the super "crisp, clear" you talk about has a more to do with the digital revolution and technology. Dr Dre didn't start the digital revolution with that album because it was recorded to tape. He also isn't responsible for manufacturing the gear that people are using today that keeps getting cleaner and cleaner.
Old 18th October 2013
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by miscend View Post
Even Timberland was sounding hifi before then.

Funny enough Timberland claims to have started both Dubstep and the current the current trend of euro dance/trance influenced urban music.
I'll give him the trend of dance influenced urban music. He did pretty much spearhead it. But dubstep? lol no.
Old 19th October 2013
  #10
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse381 View Post
To answer your question, I don't think todays sound has anything to do with the 2001 album, because todays sound, the super "crisp, clear" you talk about has a more to do with the digital revolution and technology. Dr Dre didn't start the digital revolution with that album because it was recorded to tape. He also isn't responsible for manufacturing the gear that people are using today that keeps getting cleaner and cleaner.
Thats what I mean. It was apparently recorded to tape on his "good old" SSL 4000, that hes been using forever. And the same MPC 3000 and MPC 60 samplers.
I don't think the gear is responsible for the change to be honest...
Old 20th October 2013
  #11
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I would argue that some of Mobb Deeps stuff was pretty close, at least ball park. I would say especially Murda Muzik. Nothing before Hell on Earth.

It may seem strange but realize that Mobb Deep had a really gritty, simple sound. They also used samples where Dre was replaying them. Dre had really dramatic things going on where Mobb Deep's stuff was simple. Just saying, it may not seem like they are even close but Murda Muzik was actually a great sounding album for that time. I feel that 2001 has so much going on with arrangement, the sound of the artist, etc, that it's hard to compare as "simpler" albums may sound great but don't have that "feel".
Old 20th October 2013
  #12
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Most Dub Step\Bro Step records has Timbaland"s drum patterns .so he's influenced that scene .. as far as 2001,its universally recognized as 1 of in not the best mixed hip hop record ever.
Old 20th October 2013
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigyo View Post
Most Dub Step\Bro Step records has Timbaland"s drum patterns .so he's influenced that scene .. as far as 2001,its universally recognized as 1 of in not the best mixed hip hop record ever.
I can't hear that to be honest...

I think the Outkast record someone mentions from 1996 has kind of that sound im talking about.
Mos Defs - Ms fat booty has too, but thats also 1999.

Really punchy snares and kicks.
Old 20th October 2013
  #14
Gear Nut
 

A lot of things contributed to that sound mainly because technology was growing so fast, as it always does.
I think one of the things that album may have brought to the forefront for hiphop was very loud mastering! But it still sounded good.

I say this because I remember seeing an interview with the guy that mastered the record and he said see wanted it louder than anything else.
Dre didn't care if it was distorted. So the ME was just all tore up lol.

The other thing was probably the HD ADATS that you could chain together, and they were hd by then i think.
Adat made the editing a lil easier too.
Pt 24 bit was available by 97-98 so that attributed to records sounding more pristine as well.

So essentially that record was probably recorded to hard disk, like a lot of records were starting to be around that time.

If not, and the hd wasn't around yet, those adats and Alesis still owned **** in project studios and it was surely recorded to Adat tape, which was still more pristine than just 2 inch reel to reel.

But yeah.. Technology.
Old 20th October 2013
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yoyokidz89 View Post
Thats what I mean. It was apparently recorded to tape on his "good old" SSL 4000, that hes been using forever. And the same MPC 3000 and MPC 60 samplers.
I don't think the gear is responsible for the change to be honest...
If you are comparing the sound of 2001 vs the chronic and doggystyle, for one, the mpc 3000 that he supposedly used on 2001 didn't exist in the early 90s. So the samples and drums were done with older technology then, probably mpc 60, s950, sp1200, etc. Older samplers, older technology with 12 bit sampling (16 bit had yet to be invented) which wasn't as clean as the mpc 3000 with its 16 bit. So that IS the gear being responsible for a change in sonics, in the case of samples used. 16 bit is cleaner than 12 bit, plain and simple.

That's only 1 fraction of the music though. Consider the guitars, basses, and amps used heavily on 2001. Were those brand new instruments, or the same old ones used on the Chronic? The sound of guitars/amps made in the late 90s is noticeably cleaner than those made in the late 80s/early 90s. So if they used new guitars/amps at the time, that's going to make the mix sound much cleaner, as the guitars/basses were a big part of the mix on that album. Not to mention the original chronic was much more sample based, so now we're talking about samples of guitars/basses from the 70s, vs the sound of brand new at the time guitars/basses from the late 90s (if thats what was used on 2001), which would be a big difference in clarity.

Also, what tape machine was 2001 recorded on? The Chronic was recorded at Solar records, I believe, which was an old studio from the 70s/80s. So its very possible the machines they recorded the chonic on were from the 70s. So did Dre use vintage tape machines on 2001, or did he buy new machines when he built aftermath studios? The difference in sound between an old tape machine from the 70s and one bought new in the late 90s is huge. The latter being much, much cleaner, as well as more dbx noise reduction technology available at the time, giving the ability to produce cleaner recordings.

In addition to the tape machine, I'm guessing Dre also bought his own mixing board when aftermath was built, thus likely didn't mix 2001 on the same old mixing board at Solar. Which is another factor contributing a cleaner sound.

So, while this is all speculation on my part based on things I've read, and I don't know exactly what he used on both, but I'm guessing there were lots of equipment changes between those two albums that spanned almost a decade apart. And the difference in the sound of equipment from one decade to the next is big in terms of sonic clarity. Regardless of what the operator does with it, its just built to sound cleaner. So to credit Dre for making it sound cleaner, idk about that, if he was just using newer cleaner sounding equipment, that's not really him making it sound cleaner, its the companies who built the gear.
Old 20th October 2013
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostInDaMachine View Post

If not, and the hd wasn't around yet, those adats and Alesis still owned **** in project studios and it was surely recorded to Adat tape, which was still more pristine than just 2 inch reel to reel..
Good point. I remember reading somewhere that 2001 was mixed down to a panasonic dat machine. Which would contribute even more to a cleaner sound vs mixing down to tape like the Chronic was.
Old 20th October 2013
  #17
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xanax's Avatar
OG Chronic & 2001 were both pretty much analog mixed & engineered on similar equipment.. SSL console,EQs & comps, Studer A827 multitrack, Neve 1073 mic Pre & EQ.. etc.. what changed was mostly the production equipment: MPC 60, Minimoog, vintage keys on Chronic & MPC 3000, Korg Triton, Nord Lead on 2001... and indeed mixed down to Panasonic DAT.. then you got the incredible session musicians & engineers to credit as well.. FWIW both albums made a huge impact sonically on the scene, Dre was on some Quincy Jones Thriller of rap ambition when he made those..
Old 21st October 2013
  #18
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cherrymusic's Avatar
 

This hit you in your face hard and clean enough?.....

Old 21st October 2013
  #19
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digiman's Avatar
No, ATCQ Midnight Marauders - 1993
Old 21st October 2013
  #20
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse381 View Post
If you are comparing the sound of 2001 vs the chronic and doggystyle, for one, the mpc 3000 that he supposedly used on 2001 didn't exist in the early 90s. So the samples and drums were done with older technology then, probably mpc 60, s950, sp1200, etc. Older samplers, older technology with 12 bit sampling (16 bit had yet to be invented) which wasn't as clean as the mpc 3000 with its 16 bit. So that IS the gear being responsible for a change in sonics, in the case of samples used. 16 bit is cleaner than 12 bit, plain and simple.

That's only 1 fraction of the music though. Consider the guitars, basses, and amps used heavily on 2001. Were those brand new instruments, or the same old ones used on the Chronic? The sound of guitars/amps made in the late 90s is noticeably cleaner than those made in the late 80s/early 90s. So if they used new guitars/amps at the time, that's going to make the mix sound much cleaner, as the guitars/basses were a big part of the mix on that album. Not to mention the original chronic was much more sample based, so now we're talking about samples of guitars/basses from the 70s, vs the sound of brand new at the time guitars/basses from the late 90s (if thats what was used on 2001), which would be a big difference in clarity.

Also, what tape machine was 2001 recorded on? The Chronic was recorded at Solar records, I believe, which was an old studio from the 70s/80s. So its very possible the machines they recorded the chonic on were from the 70s. So did Dre use vintage tape machines on 2001, or did he buy new machines when he built aftermath studios? The difference in sound between an old tape machine from the 70s and one bought new in the late 90s is huge. The latter being much, much cleaner, as well as more dbx noise reduction technology available at the time, giving the ability to produce cleaner recordings.

In addition to the tape machine, I'm guessing Dre also bought his own mixing board when aftermath was built, thus likely didn't mix 2001 on the same old mixing board at Solar. Which is another factor contributing a cleaner sound.

So, while this is all speculation on my part based on things I've read, and I don't know exactly what he used on both, but I'm guessing there were lots of equipment changes between those two albums that spanned almost a decade apart. And the difference in the sound of equipment from one decade to the next is big in terms of sonic clarity. Regardless of what the operator does with it, its just built to sound cleaner. So to credit Dre for making it sound cleaner, idk about that, if he was just using newer cleaner sounding equipment, that's not really him making it sound cleaner, its the companies who built the gear.
Interesting reading!
Old 21st October 2013
  #21
Quote:
Originally Posted by miscend View Post
Even Timberland was sounding hifi before then.

Funny enough Timberland claims to have started both Dubstep and the current the current trend of euro dance/trance influenced urban music.
Here's how i view it:

That dubstep thing, he probably said that because he had that crazy bounce in his production. But about that whole euro dance, he actually did influence pop with that. Didn't you notice the change of pop music in 2006? Soon as Nelly Furtado and Justin Timberlake released their albums, both produced by Timbaland everyone started using a more synthesized, dance sound. Before "SexyBack", 80% of hit songs were straight R&B/Rap, Raggaeton was popular too but started to fade round that time. And then, you had those 'few' Pop songs like "Bad Day" that would become hits.
I noticed a change of pop when Nelly Furtado's "Promiscuous" hit #1 on billboard. When everything else on radio was played out, that song popped off, because it sounded like no other song on radio. This was before Justin came with his "Future..." thing (sorry but the title is just ).
Whatever, Timbo produced Nelly and Justin, released his own album and became the hottest producer again. The key to his success was the use of . They sounded heavy and were infectious (My Love). So this went on for over a year, even Kanye...who never overused synths started having a more electronic orientated sound (Stronger, Good Life). Around that time, T-Pain had already popularized the "autotune" sound. Autotune was mainly used in Hip Hop/R&B songs, sung by the Pain himself. But Over the years, Pop artists would use not only autotune, but also Timbaland's >>> !
All over sudden, artists like Chris Brown started singing autotune over Dance-Pop-R&B tracks (Forever), that were similar to Timbaland beats (The Way I Are).
If you look at all these acts: Black Eyed Peas, Taio Cruz, Flo Rida, Kesha, even Lady Gaga...they were all indirectly influenced by the sounds that Timbaland produced on "Loose" and "FutureSex/LoveSounds". This whole euro-dance sound was a process that began 2006 when Timbaland started using this >>>

Just my personal opinion.
Old 21st October 2013
  #22
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigyo View Post
Most Dub Step\Bro Step records has Timbaland"s drum patterns .so he's influenced that scene .. as far as 2001,its universally recognized as 1 of in not the best mixed hip hop record ever.
Yes, this is what kept him relevant since. Chronic was dope as an album, but those 2001 mixes were crazy af.
Old 22nd October 2013
  #23
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Patrick_'s Avatar
Till this day I think ghostface "Supreme Clientele" is sonically up there with 2001.
Old 22nd October 2013
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Vis View Post
Here's how i view it:

That dubstep thing, he probably said that because he had that crazy bounce in his production. But about that whole euro dance, he actually did influence pop with that. Didn't you notice the change of pop music in 2006? Soon as Nelly Furtado and Justin Timberlake released their albums, both produced by Timbaland everyone started using a more synthesized, dance sound. Before "SexyBack", 80% of hit songs were straight R&B/Rap, Raggaeton was popular too but started to fade round that time. And then, you had those 'few' Pop songs like "Bad Day" that would become hits.
I noticed a change of pop when Nelly Furtado's "Promiscuous" hit #1 on billboard. When everything else on radio was played out, that song popped off, because it sounded like no other song on radio. This was before Justin came with his "Future..." thing (sorry but the title is just ).
Whatever, Timbo produced Nelly and Justin, released his own album and became the hottest producer again. The key to his success was the use of . They sounded heavy and were infectious (My Love). So this went on for over a year, even Kanye...who never overused synths started having a more electronic orientated sound (Stronger, Good Life). Around that time, T-Pain had already popularized the "autotune" sound. Autotune was mainly used in Hip Hop/R&B songs, sung by the Pain himself. But Over the years, Pop artists would use not only autotune, but also Timbaland's >>> !
All over sudden, artists like Chris Brown started singing autotune over Dance-Pop-R&B tracks (Forever), that were similar to Timbaland beats (The Way I Are).
If you look at all these acts: Black Eyed Peas, Taio Cruz, Flo Rida, Kesha, even Lady Gaga...they were all indirectly influenced by the sounds that Timbaland produced on "Loose" and "FutureSex/LoveSounds". This whole euro-dance sound was a process that began 2006 when Timbaland started using this >>>

Just my personal opinion.
This timeline makes sense to me, although I thought Kanye (00's) came about a bit later on after Timbo did the synth/dance hybrid thing (90's).

But yeah this is how I understand some of radio hits transition thru the past decades. Brings back a lot of memories man... this is **** you wash your car to on weekends. We don't get that kinda music anymore, feels overdone now.
Old 19th November 2013
  #25
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick_ View Post
Till this day I think ghostface "Supreme Clientele" is sonically up there with 2001.
It's alaso released later than 2001
Old 19th November 2013
  #26
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3rd Degree's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse381 View Post
That's only 1 fraction of the music though. Consider the guitars, basses, and amps used heavily on 2001. Were those brand new instruments, or the same old ones used on the Chronic? The sound of guitars/amps made in the late 90s is noticeably cleaner than those made in the late 80s/early 90s. So if they used new guitars/amps at the time, that's going to make the mix sound much cleaner, as the guitars/basses were a big part of the mix on that album. Not to mention the original chronic was much more sample based, so now we're talking about samples of guitars/basses from the 70s, vs the sound of brand new at the time guitars/basses from the late 90s (if thats what was used on 2001), which would be a big difference in clarity.
I was going to say similar. Knowing a lot less, I do know that many, if not not all samples were replayed which also that would give the opportunity to both record, and more importantly mix what many think is a audio sample, totally differently from the original. Again, I know nothing about how this album was mixed. I will say that when I hear the original songs of this, and other songs on different albums, you can hear very distinct differences, even at the grocery store.
Old 20th November 2013
  #27
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sketcho's Avatar
 

Dre definitely changed hip hop, but he did not create the sound that you hear today. Q-Tip, Dilla, Preem, Lord Finesse, Easy Mo Bee, RZA, Large Professor, Prince Paul..etc. there were many pioneers of that sound in my opinion. Dr. Dre progressed his sound from the Chronic to chronic 2001 largely by their influence. I think even questlove's work on Illadelph halflife in 1996 is similar quality + as mentioned earlier in this thread Hi-Tek's work on 'black star' in 1998 was KILLER. Yes, Dre invented the sound you hear on 2001, but he isn't the end all be all pioneer for today's music...
Old 20th November 2013
  #28
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Vis View Post
I noticed a change of pop when Nelly Furtado's "Promiscuous" hit #1 on billboard. When everything else on radio was played out, that song popped off, because it sounded like no other song on radio.
Here's a picture I took the other day at Orange Lounge, not too shabby:

Old 20th November 2013
  #29
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I am not even gonna entertain any discussion on Timbo sewing the seeds to euro/dance/dubstep revolution here in the states.

There was already a healthy culture of that in colleges (probably cos of the huge increase in international students) that was bound to sweep this nation by storm. Timbo or not!

Give me a break ...lol
Old 20th November 2013
  #30
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2toxic View Post
I am not even gonna entertain any discussion on Timbo sewing the seeds to euro/dance/dubstep revolution here in the states.

There was already a healthy culture of that in colleges (probably cos of the huge increase in international students) that was bound to sweep this nation by storm. Timbo or not!

Give me a break ...lol
That's what I think too. And people forget that David Guetta "Love is Gone" was released about the same time. I'd say Guetta was very influential in putting dance music on the map.
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