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Was Dre really the first to come up eith that sound?
Old 21st November 2013
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sketcho View Post
Dre definitely changed hip hop, but he did not create the sound that you hear today. Q-Tip, Dilla, Preem, Lord Finesse, Easy Mo Bee, RZA, Large Professor, Prince Paul..etc. there were many pioneers of that sound in my opinion. Dr. Dre progressed his sound from the Chronic to chronic 2001 largely by their influence. I think even questlove's work on Illadelph halflife in 1996 is similar quality + as mentioned earlier in this thread Hi-Tek's work on 'black star' in 1998 was KILLER. Yes, Dre invented the sound you hear on 2001, but he isn't the end all be all pioneer for today's music...
That's what the discussion is about. 2001 was a huge change in the sound of hip hop. Nobody is saying that Dre pioneered the sound of hip hop, just that 2001 was a large change sonically (among other things) that went above and beyond most, and arguably, records before it in the hip hop realm.

I do think people do tend to forget how early Dre actually started. Many of the examples you speak of actually started at a similar or later time than Dre.

I also agree that Illadelph Halflife was an album that really set the bar in terms of quality, while having a distinct sound, and arguably made a similar impact as 2001 to the people who were really into it. Dre's influence is just much bigger.
Old 22nd November 2013
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rd Degree View Post
That's what the discussion is about. 2001 was a huge change in the sound of hip hop. Nobody is saying that Dre pioneered the sound of hip hop, just that 2001 was a large change sonically (among other things) that went above and beyond most, and arguably, records before it in the hip hop realm.

I do think people do tend to forget how early Dre actually started. Many of the examples you speak of actually started at a similar or later time than Dre.

I also agree that Illadelph Halflife was an album that really set the bar in terms of quality, while having a distinct sound, and arguably made a similar impact as 2001 to the people who were really into it. Dre's influence is just much bigger.
Ok yeah I got you. I just don't think 2001 is sonically any better than Midnight Marauders though. And also, what are examples of music out today that compares to the sound on 2001? I don't know of any (maybe good kid maad city).. people are still trying to figure out his methods
Old 23rd November 2013
  #33
kid rock devil without a cause was better imo than 2001.

that album went diamond, certified classic.
Old 23rd November 2013
  #34
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Just my Opinion..

I think Tribe Called Quest changed the sound in the quality of hiphop music in 1991 with Low End Theory. I believe it started with the remix single version of "Can I kick it," prior to Low End Theory, where the mix on the snare was crazy. I recall Diamond D giving ATCQ/Bob Powers mad props for getting the snares and drums to sound that way. This carried on to Low End Theory where "Check The Rhyme" took "using the 808" to a whole other level. It was powerful yet extremely clean. When it came out, I remember there was nothing else sonically that sounded like that. And the sound of everyone's snares and kicks were beginning to evolve. This was 1991!

As far as Dr. Dre. Of course the dude is incredible. But he took it to another level way before Chronic 2001 with DoggyStyle in 1994. When I bought the cassette (yes cassette) I remember being engulfed by his sound. The sound was extremely expensive for a lack of a better explanation. It was so cinematic with the skits and songs and how they ran together and hit hard when they started. Everything on that album sound extra big! That was truly a masterpiece in terms of the sound in hip hop and at that moment he truly distanced himself from everyone else. I think he was getting into scoring so perhaps this played a part? Natural Born Killaz on Murder was the Case was also pretty good sonically.

Even Puffy gets an honorable mention in terms of making hiphop joints sound bigger, almost POP even. I dont think he gets enough credit for presenting it in a new way that would allow people who dont listen to traditional hip hop to be introduced to it. Yes, he went a little to far with the POP, but he made an impact nonetheless.

BTW, I dont think Tim created dubstep, but I think he may have influenced a generation that would eventually fuse reggae dub/garage/2-step. He definitely brought that similar sound to mainstream radio. Then everybody and their mother started making "Tell Me You're that somebody and Jigga What" type drum patterns in their songs. Created?? Probably not, but I think he had a hand in influencing some of it with his work in the late 90s.

Peace
Old 23rd November 2013
  #35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Lago View Post
That's what I think too. And people forget that David Guetta "Love is Gone" was released about the same time. I'd say Guetta was very influential in putting dance music on the map.
That's true David Guetta was very influential. But he needed urban artists to get him up there. The fusion of Dance/Hip Hop/R&B was important for this sound, to dominate the pop charts. And Timbaland imo was the only one doing it mainstream around 2006.
Old 24th November 2013
  #36
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Vis View Post
That's true David Guetta was very influential. But he needed urban artists to get him up there. The fusion of Dance/Hip Hop/R&B was important for this sound, to dominate the pop charts. And Timbaland imo was the only one doing it mainstream around 2006.
Anyway, everything combined was important! It never comes from 1 source only.
Old 26th November 2013
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Vis View Post
That's true David Guetta was very influential. But he needed urban artists to get him up there. The fusion of Dance/Hip Hop/R&B was important for this sound,
Important for what sound? ....
Old 26th November 2013
  #38
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I honestly don't see what the big deal is with Dr. Dre's 2001. Yeah it's a good mix, but is very overated imo. (Vocals aren't loud enough imo)

A sweet mix would be something like Geto Boyz - Free (Da Good Da Bad Da Ugly)
Old 27th November 2013
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pumper View Post
I honestly don't see what the big deal is with Dr. Dre's 2001. Yeah it's a good mix, but is very overated imo. (Vocals aren't loud enough imo)

A sweet mix would be something like Geto Boyz - Free (Da Good Da Bad Da Ugly)
It's a producers album so the vocals won't be as loud in the mix. They want you to enjoy the production.

In fact most genres outside of pop/top40 music don't have overly loud vocals.
Old 27th November 2013
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miscend View Post
In fact most genres outside of pop/top40 music don't have overly loud vocals.
Bingo
Old 27th November 2013
  #41
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Dre put knocking midbass and lowmids on the map and combined it with silky highmids and highs. i d say, a rap Thriller.
Old 28th November 2013
  #42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sampler Man View Post
I think Dre can be largely accredited for this sound. It wasn't achievable in underground hip hop as indi producers did not have the gear to achieve superb sonic quality. There is a trade off to using this type of sound in hip hop. What you gain in sonic quality you lose in grit. I hear a lot of tough talk on Chronic 2001 but I don't find it a tough record as its too glossy. It's comparable to old horror movies shot in 16mm vs new digital formats. To me a lot of the creepiness of the old movies were from the grainy film.
Amen
Old 28th November 2013
  #43
Quote:
Originally Posted by miscend View Post
Even Timberland was sounding hifi before then.

Funny enough Timberland claims to have started both Dubstep and the current the current trend of euro dance/trance influenced urban music.
timbaland didn't start jack. he's in the pop world and the poop world only know how to sugar coat what the underground were doing ten years previous.
Old 3rd December 2013
  #44
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Timbo and dubstep in the same sentence is beyond asinine ... just stop it guys. for real ..lol... <DELETED BY MODERATOR>

Not even any talk of some influence he's had to sway pop in that direction ... complete BS!!

I lived in the UK from '96 to 2000... the foundation of dubstep stems from drum and bass culture.

Give me a break with this Timbo ****!!!

Great producer .. no doubt one of the best! But I swear some of these big name ni88az (Kanye included) be drinking too much of their own kool-aid... and then try to piss that **** back out on everybody else.
Old 7th December 2013
  #45
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2toxic View Post
Timbo and dubstep in the same sentence is beyond asinine ... just stop it guys. for real ..lol... <DELETED BY MODERATOR>

Not even any talk of some influence he's had to sway pop in that direction ... complete BS!!

I lived in the UK from '96 to 2000... the foundation of dubstep stems from drum and bass culture.

Give me a break with this Timbo ****!!!

Great producer .. no doubt one of the best! But I swear some of these big name ni88az (Kanye included) be drinking too much of their own kool-aid... and then try to piss that **** back out on everybody else.
Old 7th December 2013
  #46
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