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How important is it to you to NOT use the original presets?
Old 14th August 2006
  #1
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Big 3rd's Avatar
 

How important is it to you to NOT use the original presets?

I noticed that a lot of cats talk a lot about layering, filtering, tweaking, and just all out altering snares, kicks, and the rest...is this done more because some of you are putting your signature to your production, you don't like the preset samples within your workstation, sound module, or soft synth...OR you just want to add more balls to the sounds themselves?

I'm asking because my main piece is the motif, like many of us. And I like a lot of the kick and snare samples just the way they are but I got to be honest, I do layer some of my kicks and snares...but I usually go with the original samples.

Do you think having the meat and potatoes of your production from such a widely used workstation as the motif...does that take away from your productions impact?
Old 14th August 2006
  #2
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You actually LIKE the drums in the motiff?
Old 14th August 2006
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no ssl yet View Post
You actually LIKE the drums in the motiff?
I like the ones in my motif rack ES....
Old 14th August 2006
  #4
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use what sounds good
Old 14th August 2006
  #5
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Big 3rd's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyMan View Post
use what sounds good
Oh really, wow....never thought of that.
Old 14th August 2006
  #6
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Dr.Wu's Avatar
 

the only thing that is uncooler than using presets is NOT using them because they are presets........
Old 14th August 2006
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Wu View Post
the only thing that is uncooler than using presets is NOT using them because they are presets........
tthats exactly what im talking about i freely mix everything .. use the whole pallette if need be.. if a snare is nice .. try layering somthing under it half volume .. you never know it could get better.. or even a bell with a short decay music is like fighting .. EF rules ..
Old 14th August 2006
  #8
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Tibbon's Avatar
It's a massive thing for me. I can't stand using presets, and asides from stuff like grand pianos and such, I don't use them for any basses or synth work.

When I get a new synth it normally goes like this
1) Flip through the presets to get an idea of what it can do
2) prompt erase all of the presets and never load the original ones again.

Can't wait until I have a modular, and no presets will be available even for use! It's getting close that way now however just even patching the CV stuff on my Moog with the Fooger pedals.

As for using drum presets? Forget it. Perhaps in BFD for 'real' drum sounds, but as for anything else... it's got to be from scratch.
Old 14th August 2006
  #9
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DeeDrive's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big 3rd View Post
Oh really, wow....never thought of that.
Ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer.

Why would anyone care about being "true" to a preset. Use what sounds good and don't waste time worrying about whether or not your using a preset or not.

It's like a guitar player saying "well, this song I wrote sounds great, but I'm not using a standard chord progression, so I think i'll trash it"
Old 15th August 2006
  #10
Gear Addict
 

I think that (at least for me) it's about getting something that you don't hear on every track you hear on everybody elses recordings...It's about creating something original, though that is quite hard. It's also about creating your own sound...that has a lot to do with how you mix the sounds and so on...

Though if you like a preset, why wouldn't u use it?! Whatever makes you get what you're trying to achieve...

It's just a fact, that today when everyones using sample cd's in hip hop and r&B production (yeah yeah I know not everyone is using but u got what I ment), the music is bound to sound like everything else if you don't try to create your own sound.
Old 15th August 2006
  #11
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when you're worrying more about not using Presets than about creating something wonderful, original, and inspiring....log off of Gearslutz.com immediately and seek help.
Old 15th August 2006
  #12
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Big 3rd's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeDrive View Post
Ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer.

Why would anyone care about being "true" to a preset. Use what sounds good and don't waste time worrying about whether or not your using a preset or not.

It's like a guitar player saying "well, this song I wrote sounds great, but I'm not using a standard chord progression, so I think i'll trash it"
I was really asking to get others view on the matter. In the end, I really don't give a sh*t what others do when it comes to HOW they create.
I might take their opinion more as scripture when it comes to some advice on mixing, especially if it's from someone that I KNOW can mix well.

So...

fuuck
Old 15th August 2006
  #13
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Heres how i do it .. im sample based so i dig alot .. i think ive mad like 4 casio beats ever and they all had sampled drums singole hits iv gathered over the years and tweaked to my tastes.. bbut for normal workflow .. i play with a sampled kick snare and maybe a hi hat .. i try out samples .. chop **** up filter get a groove going .. then i go back to drums ..layerign .. somtimes using a crash from the fantom .. it has some nice drum sounds so i use them .. but to me most things need help with another sound .. weather its just to fit in a mix.. or if i know that kick wount make it through a tv ..then ill layer a real crunch hihat with it mixed to suit .. so you get that hitting with the kick .. theres lots ofo reasons to or not to use stock sounds .. use everything on every shelf of your kitchen somtimes .. other times PB and J hits the spot
Old 15th August 2006
  #14
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Tibbon's Avatar
I normally don't see any point at all in sampling the drums that I need from other recordings. If I want the sound of a Vistalite kit, or a Ludwig, etc... then I get someone with that kit, or rent one, or do whatever, record the part I need and move on. It costs a little money, but normally less than my lawyer bills and payments to Harry Fox Agency.

Record it the way you want to basically. If you have a sound in your head, figure out how to make it happen. That's basically what engineering is- making sounds happen from instruments.

Barring that, if I want a more synthetic sound, then I'll use the synths available to me to create it. No point again in sampling someone else's 909/808 hits. If they used a certain compressor on their 909 to get a certain sound (maybe daft punk) there's no reason I can't use the same/similar compressor to do the trick. As I said before, just waiting to get a modular so I can really make any sound that I want...

Pretty sure that many of the electronic based albums that I listen to wouldn't sound good at all if all of their drumhit except for crashes were ripped from something else.

I suppose that every now and then it's cool to do one, if you get it cleared and all, due to you wanting the audience to know where the sound came from and think of that music while the song is playing. A good instance I could think of would be the kick on NIN's "Closer". I can't listen to that without thinking of Iggy Pop.
Old 15th August 2006
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tibbon View Post

When I get a new synth it normally goes like this
1) Flip through the presets to get an idea of what it can do
2) prompt erase all of the presets and never load the original ones again.

.

this is crazy talk... why not just use the USER banks for your own sounds---? are you THAT afraid that you might be tempted to use a preset??? what happened to you man....you USED to be about the MUUUUSIC
Old 15th August 2006
  #16
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Bigg_T's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by NesNeedsGear View Post
when you're worrying more about not using Presets than about creating something wonderful, original, and inspiring....log off of Gearslutz.com immediately and seek help.
I think that's a bit harsh and one sided.

Do you like hearing the presets of the triton over and over again in countless hip hop tracks?. That what being uncreative/unadventurous gets you. plastic premade sounds over and over again.

I do understand that some people don't care and just want usable sounds to compose and thats cool.(hey it worked for reggae though most of the late 80's and early 90's)

but getting " something wonderful original and inspiring " to me, part of that equation means making your own textures and sounds.

T

Last edited by Bigg_T; 15th August 2006 at 08:46 AM.. Reason: forgot to put question mark
Old 15th August 2006
  #17
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dussel's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tibbon View Post
I normally don't see any point at all in sampling the drums that I need from other recordings. If I want the sound of a Vistalite kit, or a Ludwig, etc... then I get someone with that kit, or rent one, or do whatever, record the part I need and move on. It costs a little money, but normally less than my lawyer bills and payments to Harry Fox Agency.

Record it the way you want to basically. If you have a sound in your head, figure out how to make it happen. That's basically what engineering is- making sounds happen from instruments.
I get you, but HipHop and urban music is all about getting cool sounds without having the real vintage Pearl kit and a Dave Weckl at hand. I think a lot of what I like about this kind of music has to do with the approach. There is no way getting the kicks I want without layering real & synth kicks together. (Yes I have worked with drummers, even with a really excellent one, but for me there has to be some programmed stuff underneath)

best
Dussel
Old 15th August 2006
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyMan View Post
use what sounds good
Definitely.

It is just as phoney and lame to change something "just because."

Like the kids trying to be different who end up all looking the SAME!
Old 15th August 2006
  #19
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big 3rd View Post
I noticed that a lot of cats talk a lot about layering, filtering, tweaking, and just all out altering snares, kicks, and the rest...is this done more because some of you are putting your signature to your production, you don't like the preset samples within your workstation, sound module, or soft synth...OR you just want to add more balls to the sounds themselves?

I'm asking because my main piece is the motif, like many of us. And I like a lot of the kick and snare samples just the way they are but I got to be honest, I do layer some of my kicks and snares...but I usually go with the original samples.

Do you think having the meat and potatoes of your production from such a widely used workstation as the motif...does that take away from your productions impact?

I always work on my kicks and snares cause i know how i want them to sound and i have being paying a close ear over my life to how good ones sound. Now when it comes to pianos and strings and what not. I dont have a clue so yes i do use presets cause why should i touch something if i dont now what im doing at the end of the day i might end of doing more bad than good. I do on the other hand combine and layer different sounds to get a cool new sound but thats about it and i dont do it alot! I feel everybody should do what they do best. I dont care if you use presets i just hate people who buy keyboards and then sale them for another keyboard because they like the sounds in that keyboard and never really created new sounds in the one they have. Pretty much using keyboards like way over price sample cd's.
Old 15th August 2006
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tibbon View Post
I normally don't see any point at all in sampling the drums that I need from other recordings. If I want the sound of a Vistalite kit, or a Ludwig, etc... then I get someone with that kit, or rent one, or do whatever, record the part I need and move on. It costs a little money, but normally less than my lawyer bills and payments to Harry Fox Agency.

Record it the way you want to basically. If you have a sound in your head, figure out how to make it happen. That's basically what engineering is- making sounds happen from instruments.

Barring that, if I want a more synthetic sound, then I'll use the synths available to me to create it. No point again in sampling someone else's 909/808 hits. If they used a certain compressor on their 909 to get a certain sound (maybe daft punk) there's no reason I can't use the same/similar compressor to do the trick. As I said before, just waiting to get a modular so I can really make any sound that I want...

Pretty sure that many of the electronic based albums that I listen to wouldn't sound good at all if all of their drumhit except for crashes were ripped from something else.

I suppose that every now and then it's cool to do one, if you get it cleared and all, due to you wanting the audience to know where the sound came from and think of that music while the song is playing. A good instance I could think of would be the kick on NIN's "Closer". I can't listen to that without thinking of Iggy Pop.

I wish you were kiddng . this is the Hip-Hop forum right .. You would never tell me where my drums came from .. Why am i gonna rent a kit when i have the sound right in front of me .. comon dude .. rent a kit .. i got my 60 ..classic breaks built this ****..
its also clear we are talking about 2 completly different types of music ...Booo presets hooray .. renting instruments mics pre amps just becuas you want a single sound .ahahah id rather create
Old 15th August 2006
  #21
Here for the gear
 

if mcdonalds and burger king,wendys and use meat that i think and hope is beef and bread ....why is it that they all taste diffrent??? its all the extra little **** that they throw in to make it their own....just like music ....and what kinda gearslut has only one kind of keyboard????
Old 15th August 2006
  #22
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dussel's Avatar
 

well I really honestly hope that no one would ever ever compare my music to a product of McD or BK or whatever fast food chain!!!!

:-)

Dussel
Old 15th August 2006
  #23
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Ziggy!!'s Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigg_T View Post
I think that's a bit harsh and one sided.

Do you like hearing the presets of the triton over and over again in countless hip hop tracks?. That what being uncreative/unadventurous gets you. plastic premade sounds over and over again.

I do understand that some people don't care and just want usable sounds to compose and thats cool.(hey it worked for reggae though most of the late 80's and early 90's)

but getting " something wonderful original and inspiring " to me, part of that equation means making your own textures and sounds.

T
Sounds like you are both pissing at each other from your own sides of the fence...

Original sounds won't do it alone... at the end of the day I'd rather listen to someone finding inventive and fresh ways to use old sounds than someone who mindlessly creates the same sh*t but just wraps it in a different package.
Old 15th August 2006
  #24
Old 15th August 2006
  #25
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Big 3rd's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_who View Post
if mcdonalds and burger king,wendys and use meat that i think and hope is beef and bread ....why is it that they all taste diffrent??? its all the extra little **** that they throw in to make it their own....just like music ....and what kinda gearslut has only one kind of keyboard????
heh...yeah I hear you man. I'm definitely slippin in that area. I really spent most of my loot on recording equip. but I'm really in serious need of some new sounds...even if it's old sh*t.

As far as recording equip. is concerned, I'm fairly slutty...but I do admit I have a lot of catching up to do in the workstation, sound module area. Sorry man.

Must be more slutty...must be more slutty...
Old 15th August 2006
  #26
At an analog (hardware) studio it is 'polite' to leave the equipment for the next session 'zeroed' - ie no EQ..

If I reach for an EQ plug in - I want it "Zeroed" - so I can take it where I want.

I dont hop through a bunch of presets..

But thats me..
Old 15th August 2006
  #27
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Big 3rd's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy!! View Post
Sounds like you are both pissing at each other from your own sides of the fence...

Original sounds won't do it alone... at the end of the day I'd rather listen to someone finding inventive and fresh ways to use old sounds than someone who mindlessly creates the same sh*t but just wraps it in a different package.
Really in the end...it is more about how you use the sounds than the sounds themselves. Pretty much like you said.

Because if you really listen to some of the greatest songs ever made...they usually don't have some real OBVIOUS signature sound going on. It's usually the arrangement itself that gives the song its greatness. Those real OBVIOUS signature sounds die off rather quickly.

There is nothing like a great arrangement though.
Old 15th August 2006
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules View Post
At an analog (hardware) studio it is 'polite' to leave the equipment for the next session 'zeroed' - ie no EQ..

If I reach for an EQ plug in - I want it "Zeroed" - so I can take it where I want.

I dont hop through a bunch of presets..

But thats me..
Jules, they are talking about keyboard patches and



THe EVIL MIDI
Old 15th August 2006
  #29
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octatonic's Avatar
I don't use presets, for the most part.
I really enjoy the sound design aspects of the work.

JR
Old 15th August 2006
  #30
Who You Making Music For

I know this is Gearslutz and all, but I think as producers/engineers we can get carried away with the slutty side of making music and forget that the average listner ain't trying to compare your drum sounds to the next guys. They just trying to groove to your beats.

I use mostly pre sampled stuff as I ain't got room to hook up turntables and mixers.

My first focus is what drums sounds is gonna bring out the flavour, the vibe I'm going after on this track. Then once I have the rest of the sounds going I'm making sure the drums are still working with that vibe....At this point I will then try to make sure the drums stick out in the mix, so maybe start some layering, tweaking and filtering. simply to make sure the drums have their own signature. If I've used something too cheesey or overused then I might try swapping it out, but if that don't work then hey I'm going with the vibe and keep that sound.

I think a classic case of using a over used sample is the clap sound used in Neo's 'So Sick'....the first thing I noticed on that track was that clap!, not Neo's voice...I know it's been discussed here befor. I just wonder if your average punter noticed it too.
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