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Are All Of The Major Producer's Dropping Their SSL's, & Neve's? Control Surfaces
Old 16th June 2006
  #31
Gear Maniac
 

Everybody,


So which 'major' producers own Neve's, SSL's, or otherwise that we've left out here(not mentioned yet) still use their large format analogue consoles. It'd be nice to have a running list.


A 777 Subject.
Old 17th June 2006
  #32
Quote:
Originally Posted by 777
Everybody,


So which 'major' producers own Neve's, SSL's, or otherwise that we've left out here(not mentioned yet) still use their large format analogue consoles. It'd be nice to have a running list.


A 777 Subject.
Why?

Are you a dealer of large format consoles?
Old 17th June 2006
  #33
Lives for gear
 
cynic one's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 777
Everybody,


So which 'major' producers own Neve's, SSL's, or otherwise that we've left out here(not mentioned yet) still use their large format analogue consoles. It'd be nice to have a running list.


A 777 Subject.
your signature is annoying.
Old 17th June 2006
  #34
Gear Addict
 

A lot of these cats are working ITB because they have to throw out two songs a week whilst collaborating on things hundred of miles apart from each other.
They're working ITB because they don't have a choice. Generally, when it comes
to the final mixing stage, they're still using sum boxes; if they get their way,
it still goes through a console; murphy's law - MCDSP Analog Channel.
Old 17th June 2006
  #35
Gear Addict
 

Keep in mind, you're talking about a crowd that show no shame when
it comes to promoting their sponsors. Thus, what one says, may or may not
have anything to do with how that one actually operates.
Old 17th June 2006
  #36
Scott Storch

Scott Storch still uses his SSL 9000J, correct me if I'm wrong.
Wayne the brain and Conrad Golding seem to be Team Scott's engineers.

Storch is a very talented beatmaker, althought (and I've had this discussion multiple times with different producers and engineers) his mixes don't always sound too great. I don't know if this is a engineer-issue. His mixes sometimes sound a bit too muddy or distorted for being a major major major beatproducer of his caliber.

Anybody care to shed some light on this?

/JJ
Old 17th June 2006
  #37
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonathanJames

Anybody care to shed some light on this?

/JJ

Mixing on a 9000J takes some getting used to.

You have to ride the rails differently than the older SSL's.

It similar to the idea of mixing in a DAW(PT for example).

You can't overload it and expect it to do the same as a tape recorder or an analog console.

Also pulling the master fader down even an inch changes the sound of the overall mix.

But personally with the way things are mastered today is hard to judge any one's mixing prowess.

Everything sounds crunchy,distorted and loud.
Old 17th June 2006
  #38
Moderator
 
TonyBelmont's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonathanJames
Scott Storch still uses his SSL 9000J, correct me if I'm wrong.
Wayne the brain and Conrad Golding seem to be Team Scott's engineers.

Storch is a very talented beatmaker, althought (and I've had this discussion multiple times with different producers and engineers) his mixes don't always sound too great. I don't know if this is a engineer-issue. His mixes sometimes sound a bit too muddy or distorted for being a major major major beatproducer of his caliber.

Anybody care to shed some light on this?

/JJ
Most of those songs were mixed on a 4k...
Old 26th June 2006
  #39
Gear Maniac
 

What 'still' amazes me is that Jimmy Jam, & Terry Lewis bought 'five' SSL AWS 900's instead of say one, or two SSL XL9000K's, or J's like what Wyclef Jean, & Jerry Wonda did. I'm absolutly sure that Jam, & Lewis could afford the XL9000K's too. But, then again maybe Jam, & Lewis are doing preproduction, recording, & overdubs on the AWS900's, & taking the final mixes to SSL9000 rooms. I don't know but it would be interesting to know.

A 777 Subject.
Old 26th June 2006
  #40
Quote:
Originally Posted by 777
I don't know but it would be interesting to know.

A 777 Subject.

I still don't get why it would be so important.

JimmyJam amd Terry Lewis have different producers under the Flyte Tyme name that work for them.

Having a bunch of AWS900 in their production rooms would be normal.

Nowadays most R&B records that are mixed are still done by outside name mixers.

And they choose what to work on based on what they feel most comfortable.

And that makes no difference anyway because just about every major record released sounds either crushed or distorted so eveything sounds the same if it was mixed on a 9000K or a Mackie by the time it gets to an MP3's.
Old 26th June 2006
  #41
Gear Addict
 

analog console mmmmmmmm

dfegad headache of ownership.........
Old 26th June 2006
  #42
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor
And that makes no difference anyway because just about every major record released sounds either crushed or distorted so eveything sounds the same if it was mixed on a 9000K or a Mackie by the time it gets to an MP3's.
sorry..O/T but..yeah so true..
I've been importing some newer mastered songs[rock to hip hop] back into the Daw lately and studying the waveforms and doing critical listening..
crushed/distorted,etc..unbelievable
it just sounds soo bad!

..what the F*ck are these morons thinking??!
I mean seriously ..who are these goons[A&R,etc] who approve this crap??!!..

i was flipping through the radio yesterday..some Smashing Pumkins [shrill,squashed,small..yuck]song came on ..followed by an old zep tune[sounded huge,wide and dynamic]..

..Your absolutely right Thrill.. it just doesn't really matter in regards to some of these commercial releases..mackie/ssl ..whatever.. the stuff just gets completely trashed in mastering..
Old 26th June 2006
  #43
no ssl yet
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor
And that makes no difference anyway because just about every major record released sounds either crushed or distorted so eveything sounds the same if it was mixed on a 9000K or a Mackie by the time it gets to an MP3's.

Shouldnt this make it easier for "qualified" indipendents? What I mean is that indi guys making records should be able to sound like the majors (UNFORTUONATELY), from Home. Records today dont sound much different from what I think I could do on an MBOX/G5 set up IMO.

It's not a good thing quality wise, but from a biz standpoint, an indi should be able to compete better until they can make some bread to improve their quality.


Does this make sense?
Old 26th June 2006
  #44
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by no ssl yet

It's not a good thing quality wise, but from a biz standpoint, an indi should be able to compete better until they can make some bread to improve their quality.


Does this make sense?
sad but true! I used to mix on consoles but now am doing the hybrid ITB thing... and due to this trend, I know now that I can mix records that sound as good or better than major records... It's a good feeling, but sad at the same time cause it's not like I got that much better, it's just that the major label stuff has gotten worse

the fact that I have mixed on consoles before keeps me honest enough not to completely settle for crushed/ultramiximized / distorted garbage... but it's a sad trend for sure...
Old 26th June 2006
  #45
Quote:
Originally Posted by no ssl yet
Shouldnt this make it easier for "qualified" indipendents? What I mean is that indi guys making records should be able to sound like the majors (UNFORTUONATELY), from Home. Records today dont sound much different from what I think I could do on an MBOX/G5 set up IMO.

It's not a good thing quality wise, but from a biz standpoint, an indi should be able to compete better until they can make some bread to improve their quality.


Does this make sense?

Yeah.

That's the problem...it makes too much sense.

Its actually the other way around right now.

Records are being mixed to sound like street Mix CD's.


And alot of these Mix CD's sound so bad because they are bootlegs of each other.


The other issue is the time things are spent being promoted.


In years past a label researched which way to best approach an artists promotional campaign.

They had someone dedicated to such artists and sometimes it would take from 6-12 months.


Nowaday things happen right away because a label only wants an artists with a hot street buzz.

This forces the artists to get their products out to the masses sooner so there is no time for quality control.


This year i mixed 2 songs that went straight from the studio to either the radio the next day and hot reggaton DJ mix CD of the moment by the weekend or it went from a club showcase to a major budget movie in a matter of a month.


And both projects were just raw rough mixes(and i mean rough with one the vocals way over the music) for the client to either take home and come back and rerecord and finish or for a show CD.


It really showed me that it doesn't matter what we as engineers think anymore the best way to keep the quality matters.


All it matters right now for most artists is to maximize their opportunities for exposure when they appear in the moment.
Old 26th June 2006
  #46
Lives for gear
 
nukmusic's Avatar
 

This topic makes me think of the Hit Factory closing so suddenly... Didn't they just upgrade their rooms too??

Did they just say "Screw it, the business sucks now....shut down and sell the gear while we can still make a profit from it" ??????
Old 27th June 2006
  #47
Gear Maniac
 
Ijustmake-Beats's Avatar
 

Crazy stuff, so we can basically conclude that it's the business of making dollars that's 'causing the standards in quality to fall. I'm not even that suprised really, this seems to happen in every market to some degree.

I agree that you just can't debate the (potential anyway) sound quality difference between ITB and an SSL. ITB can sound ok too, and does have the edge in convenience, but if your budget is big enough then what artist wouldn't want their music to sound the best possible?
Old 27th June 2006
  #48
Lives for gear
 
reinvention.of.man's Avatar
 

Everyone is talking about Scott Storch like he's the new standard in hip hop production. I used to hear Dre, Timbaland and The Neptunes on every track, now it's Scott Storch.
Old 27th June 2006
  #49
Gear Maniac
 
BryanGamet's Avatar
 

i thought the hit factory moved to miami

either way, im getting rid of all my outboard gear.

a laptop and a really good audio interface, coupled with some of the new ssl plugs by waves, mcdsp, etc. and youve got a system that will kick major ass, and you can do it anywhere, wherever. if you absolutely have to mix otb, just premaster your tracks and send the wave files to a studio that already has a nice console and do your final mixes there.
Old 27th June 2006
  #50
Lives for gear
 
halfguard's Avatar
 

phoenix, that frequency guide is usefull, thanxxxx
Old 27th June 2006
  #51
Lives for gear
 

I know for a fact that Tan mixes ITB now with the Icon and uses the SSL Plug ins. I had a chat with him down in Miami.... What are these classes you are talking about? I never heard of them, whats the price? That would be interesting.....

And about the ITB v OTB topic. It really depends on the song to me. I mixed a past track on a 4K and ITB, we choose the 4K mix b/c of the depth and the roundness of the bass. But besides that I dont know if people could really tell. It would be hard, but there is something still special about an SSL to me.... it is also just easier to get stuff to sound right!

And it helps to have a good mastering engineer to top it off! I suggest Chris Athens at Sterling Sound... great guy!
Old 27th June 2006
  #52
Lives for gear
 
reinvention.of.man's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by halfguard
phoenix, that frequency guide is usefull, thanxxxx
Anytime!
Old 27th June 2006
  #53
Gear Addict
 
superjimmer's Avatar
preamps??

well what about mic pre's etc. There are very few audio interfaces that do pre and conversion well enough to avoid outboard gear. maybe Metric halo, API and Apogee??




Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanGamet
i thought the hit factory moved to miami

either way, im getting rid of all my outboard gear.

a laptop and a really good audio interface, coupled with some of the new ssl plugs by waves, mcdsp, etc. and youve got a system that will kick major ass, and you can do it anywhere, wherever. if you absolutely have to mix otb, just premaster your tracks and send the wave files to a studio that already has a nice console and do your final mixes there.
Old 28th June 2006
  #54
Gear Maniac
 

thethrillfactor,


"I still don't get why it would be so important.

JimmyJam amd Terry Lewis have different producers under the Flyte Tyme name that work for them.

Having a bunch of AWS900 in their production rooms would be normal.

Nowadays most R&B records that are mixed are still done by outside name mixers.

And they choose what to work on based on what they feel most comfortable.

And that makes no difference anyway because just about every major record released sounds either crushed or distorted so eveything sounds the same if it was mixed on a 9000K or a Mackie by the time it gets to an MP3's."


-thethrillfactor.





So you're saying that all the work that Jam, & Lewis are doing on AWS900's is just pre-production, recording, & editing but no mixing. And that all mixing is being done outside of their facility on large format SSL's at other facilities?


A 777 Subject.
Old 2nd July 2006
  #55
Lives for gear
 
Rob G's Avatar
 

This looks like another ITB/OTB on the fringe discussion only with a little more data to substantiate/validate one side's position over the other.



Rob G..
Old 2nd July 2006
  #56
Gear Maniac
 

Rob G.,

Not really! Just making a survey of what major producer's are still holding onto their large format consoles. Or, rather still using them.


A 777 Subject.
Old 3rd July 2006
  #57
Gear Nut
 

ROB G. Instead of trying to find out which guy is ITB or OTB. Ask the question. What the hell are these guys creating?? Trash or Treasures
Old 3rd July 2006
  #58
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

A good question is how many of these producers have actually owned an SSL or Neve as opposed to leasing one. I'd be willing to bet that in many cases the cost of buying the console at the end of the lease is greater than its current street value. Many older consoles are also reaching the point where bigger bucks need to be invested to keep it running than the cost of an Icon or an AWS-900. Add to that the fact that you can get Icons and AWS-900s financed but you can't get console restorations financed and the choice becomes pretty clear.

Many reasons other than preference go into decisions about keeping a console.
Old 4th July 2006
  #59
Here for the gear
If it didn't cost so much I'd still use 2 inch cause it sounds good. Does mixing on a SSL or Neve sound better? Sure does, but that's not the sound of today. Just as recording to 2 inch is not the sound of today. But you can tell when someone does. Like Prince. Basically it's the person using the tools and not the tools. Give me a TR 808 a Casio, and a 4 track and I'll still make a hit.
Old 4th July 2006
  #60
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjigga3000
Does mixing on a SSL or Neve sound better? Sure does, but that's not the sound of today.

Says who?
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