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ASR-10 sampler: needed? worth it? Please tell me! Drum Machines & Samplers
Old 17th May 2006
  #1
Gear Nut
ASR-10 sampler: needed? worth it? Please tell me!

Hey sllutiez

This post is directed to those specifically familiar with the Ensoniq ASR-10, but also with VSTi's and computer sequencers and stuff.

The question is if you already have a:

Good audio interface (i.e. RME Multiface II)
Good MIDI controller
Good sequencer (i.e. Cubase SX3)
Good set of VSTi's (i.e. DR-008, kontakt, bunch of other drums and synth...etc)
AND a good gritty 12-bit hardware sampler for drums n stuff (i.e. Akai S-950)

is it worth it to get the ASR-10 for 800 bucks just for its effects and added "warm" character to the sound? Is that sound really going to make my music sound THAT much better (in terms of audio character, of corse)?

I hear that the effects are pretty good too but I have very good vst effects, is this worth comparing?

Do you guys think I should just forget about the ASR and sample directly into my RME without looking back? Is the ASR's sound just TOO overrated and hyped by people?

I'd appreciate responses from people who actually have/had the ASR-10 and use computers with vsti's and vst's and all that stuff... i guess if you dont' have an asr and really wanna say something thas cool too

Thanks!
Old 18th May 2006
  #2
Gear Nut
 

Homeboy, it's all myth. It's cheaper to learn how to learn good recording and mixing techniques, the proper use of eq and compression helps too.

I'm no expert and i'm still learning, even by browsing these and other forums, picking up tips here and there and then applying them objectivley to what my standards are for a good track (which I measure by listening to some of my favorite producers/artists)

Tweak your presets in any vsti, don't just leave them the same, add some reverb and see if you like what it does, alter frequency and resonance, run those sounds through the magneto plugin, you can get some real warmth and character with that plug in and some eq alone.

The Asr 10 sounded good because of the pre-programming for each preset for each soundset they created (the urban dance kitt rom from masters at work a/k/a maw- kenny dope gonzalez and little louie vega was phenomenal) the engineers who finalized all the sounds for the asr 10 keyboard and asr x/pro with the sound circuitry (dsp, dac's) did alot of their own tweaking for those sounds. Those same sounds can be achieved by knowing your vsti samplers knobs and sliders inside and out. You need to experiment and ask some questions to achieve that.

I've gotten insane results using reasons nnxt sampler and routing each sound in my drum kit to seperate channels in reasons mixer. From there I'll use seperate eq's for the sounds in my kitt and the overall mix is run through reasons mastering suite which is quite powerful.

This was one of the first songs I did in reason 3.0

http://www.myspace.com/davetheonemendez (make noise 2006) it's the first song that loads. All echoes, drum kits, loops, samples mixing, compression etc.....all done in reason and sounds were from rex player or nnxt. The rack I built for this track is insane.

I found some fantastic results; taking my tracks sound to another level (which i don't yet have an example of) re-wiring reason to PTLE 7 (which i no longer own)
and using izotope and waves plugins.

Good Luck
Old 18th May 2006
  #3
Lives for gear
 
tengu's Avatar
Making beats on the ASR-10 is a slow process. The 'warmth' of the ASR-10 is myth, part fact, part fiction. However the keyboard controller of the ASR-10 is a great midi controller. Personally I really like the delays on the ASR-10, the rest of the FX are a bit ho-hum.

Sometimes though it can be good to get away from the computer and sample into the ASR. Occasionally I will sample into it just to have get the sound mulitpitched and use the delays. If you didn't have all the gear you have, the ASR-10 would be a good starting point to make tunes as a standalone sampler/sequencer but in all honesty, you don't need it. I was in the same position as you when I got it thinking that I 'needed' it. It didn't give me what I thought it would but I have enjoyed it regardless. It is a character piece that takes up a bit of space and gets hot. The keys on it are really nice though and if you are a good keys player you will enjoy it.
Old 18th May 2006
  #4
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illynoise's Avatar
 

The only way faster is if you record straight into your DAW as a wave and chop it. I've used the ASR-10, EPS16 and Mirage since 88', it's not slower once you get used to it. It is slower to chop sounds in it, compared to whats out now, but the sound is so much better for rap music than computers. I admit that I use my ASR's less and less, but if I want THAT sound, I always know where to go.

BaseJase
Illynoise
Old 18th May 2006
  #5
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Kestral's Avatar
 

I don't know about the ASR-10 but the Emu SP-1200 and Akai MPC-3000 are the real deal. I still have Emu SP-1200 sounds I sampled in the late 90's that completely destroy anything from modern drum machines to your latest sample CDs.
Old 18th May 2006
  #6
Gear Nut
Yeah, I've actually heard the sp-1200 and MPC-60 and I know those DEFINATELY have a distinguishable sound but 12-bit is a little too brutal for what I want (I actually already have a 12-bit Emax for drums)...

But I was wondering more about the ASR-10's sound.

I know the keyboard's nice, the sequencer's aight, and the samplig procedure can get pretty systematic and therefore fast... but I really don't care about that. I just want to know about its sound (including the effects).

Tengu, can you tell me a little more about why ''The 'warmth' of the ASR-10 is myth, part fact, part fiction.''?

Illynoise, what do you mean by "THAT" sound? What other hardware are you using? What audio interface? Do you do sample/process on the computer? Do you use any vst/dx effects? Would you say that the sound of the ASR-10 is so "unique" that you just can't get something like it on the computer?

If anybody else has experience with the ASR shoot a line
Old 18th May 2006
  #7
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Zacchino's Avatar
 

I had an ASR-10. I remember one of the guy from Daft Punk once told me "you're doing all your music with the ASR-10 ?" I said "Yep, most of it" and then he said "then you don't know how to use it". He was right, but a month later I sold it. I figured out I was better off writting my tracks with Acid Pro. It's alot quicker, just like any Software Seq. vs Hardware Seq IMO.

And if one day I can afford it, I'll just buy an Ensoniq DP/4+ to have the warmth of this sampler.
Old 18th May 2006
  #8
Gear Nut
Did he say you didn't know how to use it because the music wasn't as good as he thought it was supposed to be or because you were just doing too much with it?....

How did you get to talk to the DaftPunk dude anyway?

Have you had the Ensoniq DP/4+?
Old 18th May 2006
  #9
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Jamz's Avatar
If anyone is interested shoot me a PM. I'm thinking about selling my ASR-10 rack and one of my MPC-3000s.
Old 18th May 2006
  #10
Lives for gear
 
H-Rezz's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by narf
Hey sllutiez

This post is directed to those specifically familiar with the Ensoniq ASR-10, but also with VSTi's and computer sequencers and stuff.

The question is if you already have a:

Good audio interface (i.e. RME Multiface II)
Good MIDI controller
Good sequencer (i.e. Cubase SX3)
Good set of VSTi's (i.e. DR-008, kontakt, bunch of other drums and synth...etc)
AND a good gritty 12-bit hardware sampler for drums n stuff (i.e. Akai S-950)

is it worth it to get the ASR-10 for 800 bucks just for its effects and added "warm" character to the sound? Is that sound really going to make my music sound THAT much better (in terms of audio character, of corse)?

I hear that the effects are pretty good too but I have very good vst effects, is this worth comparing?

Do you guys think I should just forget about the ASR and sample directly into my RME without looking back? Is the ASR's sound just TOO overrated and hyped by people?

I'd appreciate responses from people who actually have/had the ASR-10 and use computers with vsti's and vst's and all that stuff... i guess if you dont' have an asr and really wanna say something thas cool too

Thanks!
Narf , i'd so NO , Getting an ASR10 is not going to do anything that you cann't already do better ! I've owned an AkaiS3000,ASR10,EMU6400,MPC4000 etc etc........it's what you do with your sounds that makes it sound warm , how you arrange them etc , different devices will give you different character sure but this is not going to change the world for you !

You can warm things up in so many ways(if you have to) today that it seems a waste of 800 bucks to buy the ASR10 in this day and age just for that ......IMO

I realise that you might have read an interview by the likes of people like Timbaland who work with an ASR10 so you think that that might be the holy grail, but it's not , people use em because they have been using them for years and feel comfortable with them , not because it gives them an edge , had they have started later they might be using a softsampler and still pulling great results because of how they hear sound .

Considering what i have had as samplers in the past , today i have EXS24,Sampletank and MACHFIVE doing my drums/sounds etc.......and i coudn't be happier ........

IMHO spend your money on something analog or a nice plug or maybe save it , i know it's a weird concept for a gearslutheh
Old 18th May 2006
  #11
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tengu's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by narf
Tengu, can you tell me a little more about why ''The 'warmth' of the ASR-10 is myth, part fact, part fiction.''?
Warmth is an often overused and misused term. It is also a very subjective term. Recently I did some tests running samples into my different samplers to compare there sound 'spectrum'. Samplers used were, Bias PEAK through a Fireface, SP12, MPC2000XL and the ASR10. The ASR had a pretty distiguisable sound. It was rolled off a bit in the highs but it did have a nice sound through its mids.

With todays processing available with CPU processing, you can get any sampler to have 'warmth' if that is what you want. The ASR's sound sits differently in the mix and with the right sample it can be a good addition to your sound, but.....

When I mix I roll off a bit of the highs in my samples anyway, as they often compete for space in this area. The ASR10 does this automatically to a degree. Perhaps this is why people like its sound.
Old 18th May 2006
  #12
Gear Nut
 

The bitcrusher plug-in is what you seek (for the vintage 12 bit sound of the sp1200, mpc 60) you guys gotta get up on your plugins and stop thinking it's the original machines.

The original machines are popular because all the guess work is taken out of the process of mixing and programming. Each machine is programmed a certain way and both have dsp designed for the circuitry in the specific units. Our computers processors and our sound cards dsp can emulate any machine from the past with the aid of programming your synth/sampler and a plug-in or two.


Most people are lazy and just buy the vintage boxes so that they don't have to go through the hassle of learning how to program on their macs, pc's. God forbid they learn how to do more than just press a record button and adjust tempo on the sequencer/daw. There's so much more to do on your computer DAW.

I guess one will never learn unless they really want to. No one can hand you the magic remedy or formula they can only tell you what things were used to achieve certain results. Everyone has their own holy grail.

much respect
Old 18th May 2006
  #13
Gear Head
 

Advice

I had to reply to this, mainly because I was in your position a few months back.
To put it simply : don't get it.
It will unnecessarily make your life more difficult, and the resulting gain in sound warmth/colouring is just not significant enough - it does sound good but nothing that can't be done with software vsts.
I paid through the nose ($800) then had the headache of expanding the ram, buying zip disks,buying more outputs, configuring with recycle, learning how to create patches for it then actually learning the thing inside out. This is time and money I could have spent more productively...now it's gathering dust because Stylus,Battery,Wavelab,Hypersonic & Cubase with an RME Card just do the job much quicker - no-ones going to strike me because I didn't do it on the ASR.

Well I'm still going to keep it (to feel like less of an ass for geting it), but if I could go back I wouldn't have. - anyone got an S950 to blow my cash on

P.S. I heard Neptunes did their drums on the ASR, I'm sure they'd do it on the Redrum if they came out in 2001.

Part of music culture is always hype.....and that usually hurts the music.
Old 18th May 2006
  #14
Gear Nut
Alright, I've made up my mind!

I'm gonna stop obsessing over the ASR. I think you guys are right: although there is a nice quality of sound that will be added to my mix, there are also a lot of drawbacks... I think if you balance them out getting an ASR 10 when you're a DAW-kinda-guy is like taking a step back.

One thing I AM going to do is this: GET AN AMD X2 COMPUTER so I can get twice as many pluggins cracking... I think that's the investment I need to make since lately I've been running out of cpu.

Dtheone, I just wanted to comment on the suggestion of a bit-crusher plugin. I have an EMU e-max that I use for my drums... before I got it I was trying to get an SP-1200 crunch on my drums by using bit-crushing (actually tried a lot of them) and even chaining it with a vintage-warmer or a tube effect, just to give it some warmth and try to emulate the real thing... I spent many hours and couldn't get the sound I wanted. I can get a lot of cool crunchy effects but the one I was trying to go for was just not happening.... so I guess in this situation spending 100 bucks was actually not bad of a decission. Nevertheless, I also consider myself a VST/I kinda guy, so I feel you.

Thanks and peace out
Old 19th May 2006
  #15
Lives for gear
 
Zacchino's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by narf
Did he say you didn't know how to use it because the music wasn't as good as he thought it was supposed to be or because you were just doing too much with it?....

How did you get to talk to the DaftPunk dude anyway?

Have you had the Ensoniq DP/4+?
I live in paris, not far from one of Daft Punk's guy studio. They called me to come over their studio so I could make them listen to my House music (they were very friendly people). He basically said I didn't know how to EQ and Mix with an ASR-10. He didn't know I was doing all the mixing on a PC still. But at that time I wasn't producing "quality sounding" music (but the ideas were there).

I've never had a DP/4+, but I know what it does, and as soon as I have the $ & a rackmount, I'll just buy one.
Old 20th May 2006
  #16
Lives for gear
 
tengu's Avatar
Bitcrushers do not sound like SP's. The Emu SP series had filters and a conversion that is not easily replicated. I have seen one plugin that does it ok.

This is a statement that is more often than not put forward by those who have never owned an SP12 or SP1200.

Whether or not their sound is needed in your arsenal is another arguement. I have heard that the Emax samplersw do not have the filters of the SP1200. The filters can be used to great effect.
Old 20th May 2006
  #17
Lives for gear
 
illynoise's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by narf
Yeah, I've actually heard the sp-1200 and MPC-60 and I know those DEFINATELY have a distinguishable sound but 12-bit is a little too brutal for what I want (I actually already have a 12-bit Emax for drums)...

But I was wondering more about the ASR-10's sound.

I know the keyboard's nice, the sequencer's aight, and the samplig procedure can get pretty systematic and therefore fast... but I really don't care about that. I just want to know about its sound (including the effects).

Tengu, can you tell me a little more about why ''The 'warmth' of the ASR-10 is myth, part fact, part fiction.''?

Illynoise, what do you mean by "THAT" sound? What other hardware are you using? What audio interface? Do you do sample/process on the computer? Do you use any vst/dx effects? Would you say that the sound of the ASR-10 is so "unique" that you just can't get something like it on the computer?

If anybody else has experience with the ASR shoot a line
I've gotten great sounds from the ASR10 going straight into whatever I'm using. I used to use a Y Cable and the Headphone output. It gives you a little different sound that way. Loop samples just sound great in the ASR and you can't replicate that sound, just like the MPC's and the SP's.

Also, there are certain sounds like rhodes that I've heard on the ASR that I've never heard better! And you can mess with the LFO and make a leslie, it's tight!

I've used and owned so many samplers in my life, I really like the Ensoniq, Emu emax, ESI32, and my favorite of all time was the EPS-16 plus. Hands down the best sounding sampler that I've heard, and I'm still sorry that I sold mine.

BaseJase
Illynoise
Old 20th May 2006
  #18
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tengu
Bitcrushers do not sound like SP's. The Emu SP series had filters and a conversion that is not easily replicated. I have seen one plugin that does it ok.

This is a statement that is more often than not put forward by those who have never owned an SP12 or SP1200.

Whether or not their sound is needed in your arsenal is another arguement. I have heard that the Emax samplersw do not have the filters of the SP1200. The filters can be used to great effect.
It is never right to make assumptions about whether or not you think someone may have owned a piece of gear or not based on what they say or what you heard. I owned two sp1200's and they are both gone and i'm glad they are gone. I've also owned an mpc 60 II, 3000, 2000, 2000xl and Mpc 4000, the only one I miss is the mpc 4000 because it was more like a computer (drag and drop with the aksys software and quite a robust sequencer = to cubase vst 3.6) I also owned an asr-x pro. The sp1200 and the Asrx pro were the absolute worst sequencers I ever touched in my life.

As far as bit crushers, it's all about the person and how they use it and what they use with it.

I personally would never touch a 12 bit 26khz machine with a whopping 10 seconds of sample time paired with the ****tiest sequencer in the world ever again. This is my personal opinion.

I'm tired of all those keepin it real articles and the whole vinyl vs digital debates.

Your favorite songs have some brilliant engineering on them, those songs made with the sp 1200 vintage sound you worship are recorded into pro tools (or other popular DAW) with your first conversion happening @ 24 bit 44, 48, 96 or 192khz (which will hopefully duplicate the exact sound coming out of the machine) and then again converted to 16 bit 44.1khz to put on cd. Let's not forget the dithering, compression, processing and eq'ing and countless plugins used to achieve that sound. A good engineer or producer with good engineering skills can create a briliant sound with any piece of gear. Some require less work.

People forget to give the engineers credit.

If you don't believe me, I challenge you to keep it real, Sample your best sounds to the sp1200 and use the mono mix out on the sp1200 direct to tape (reel to reel) and tell me how crispy and crunchy your beats sound. Keep it real now!

Give the engineers their due!

The less I know about engineering the better. I'll leave the engineering to the engineers.
Old 21st May 2006
  #19
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tengu's Avatar
Where did I mention that I worship the sound of the SP? Where did I mention anything to do with keeping it real? Where did I say you hadn't used an SP?

I don't think the SP sound is that important but I do believe that 12bit does have a certain character that could be utilised by someone. Whether or not I consider it to be all that is another thing but nowhere did I say anything of the sort.

Certain snares sampled with the SP and then put through heavy compression and a little eq can and do 'crunch'. Like the ASR10 I would steer someone to a computer before getting one. I am not one of those keep it real guys. I prefer software to hardware like yourself dtheone.
Old 21st May 2006
  #20
Gear Nut
 

Hey, I'm sorry if I came off in a bad way. I sincerely apologize.
Old 21st May 2006
  #21
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tengu's Avatar
Sometimes our words get lost in translation. Best of luck... and happiness with your beats dtheone

apologies accepted and returned
Old 2nd June 2006
  #22
Gear Nut
 

800$ is quite lot for an asr... i got mine fully expanded for 550€

i like its sound a lot. there was only one time i sampled some orchestral stuff that did not sound good on it.
the asr-x is supposed to sound a little better than the asr10 (i have not heard it yet) and it has resonant filters, but also more limited and the keyboard of the asr10 is quite nice. if you just want it to stamp your sound the x might be better, or if you want the fx you could go for a dp2, dp4, dp4+ or dppro.

it is less convenient to work with it than having everything in the computer, but i find it more fun, too.

it's simply another workflow, and i think the most important question is whether it suits you or not!
Old 2nd June 2006
  #23
Lives for gear
 

Narf:

Heres an alternative stance to those presented so far. To make this short:

1. Ensoniqs (EPS classic, 16, ASR) provide healthy amounts of color. This comes from they're DAC's and Ensoniqs "Q" chip technology. Dark, ambient, wide stero image are the words i'd use. No soft synth/sampler will give you anything even remotely close. (side note: I'd get an EPS16+. Like the s950, it has quite a few more user selectable frequency rates to choose from when sampling. This means realy gritty, or pretty clean. ASR is stuck with 32khz, 44khz).

2. Ensoniq FX will destroy your VST FX. No contest.

If you wanna hear the EPS16+ in action, go to my profile here on GS and visit my MySpace. The first cut that comes on was done entirely on the EPS16+.

Btw. The EPS16+ can be had for like $325 tops, making it a low risk investment. If you don't like it, put it on eBay and get your money back. Also, the reason I'm pushing the EPS 16+ over the ASR is because you mentioned you were considering the purchase based on color. The ASR definately has color, but the EPS16+ has even more - and cost less.
Old 7th June 2006
  #24
Gear Nut
 

i you do get an asr, go for the keyboard version: in my opinion the alignment of the buttons is a lot more convenient.

the advantage of the rack is that multiple outs and scsi are ther by default.
Old 5th December 2007
  #25
Lives for gear
 
Alex Specht's Avatar
 

One Year Later and the ASR10 is hotter than ever

Just picked up two broken ASR10's and repaired them.

This is when companies made electronics like they should be made.

Heavy duty power supply, good A/D conversion (for its day), nice internal design, and no cheap componenets (after 10 years of hard use some of the buttons may go bad, they are rated at around 100,000 clicks)

I had the inclination, that this keyboard is lousy as any old junk that you will find, however I understand the notion that for electronic music production, Hip-Hop etc... the "fatness" of the sampler is key.

So I compared it to the Motif by simply sampling a motif drum kit directly into the ASR10 (mono). Sure enough, there was a big difference in the "warmth" (high end roll off effect) and this led to a punchier snare sound, and grittier hi-hat. The piano/string sound, however sounded like a cheap casio.

The fact that Kanye West uses it, makes it a hot item right now (considering he is on the top of the charts). I have seen some footage on you tube of Kanye West in the studio with it. He says that at the time this was the only keyboard that could play back one sample with different start points, hence not taking up any memory. This was a big perk considering 16mb max. will get you about 2 minutes of audio total. Compare that with the 32GB Goliath library of today and you will know why he says "at the time"

Perhaps, the ASR10 should be credited as the keyboard that allowed producers to use "chipmunk voice" samples as the hooks.... YUK! But it sold a hell of a lot more copies that I can imagine.

The crunchy fat gritty drum sounds are in style, just as the big deep reverb snare drum was hot in the 80's. A hip-hop producer/beat maker would probably loose their client if they used that 80's snare in their beat.
Old 5th December 2007
  #26
Gear Head
 

just a sharin'

Ive been making beats in Logic - Reason rewire since 3 years ago.
Then my friend lend me ASR10 a year ago (FREE), i was so happy.
Growing up seeing big dawgs like RZA Tim Alchemist Kanye used that machine.
Wished that my beats would sound like thems =)

With no scsi, 2 outputs, missing os disc, that finaly I went to ebay to get one.
I spent like 3 months trying to get the ins and outs of ASR10,
its really fun to push buttons, slide the faders, but its really
pain in the back, changing disc all the time,
plus until now, i dont really now how to slice and spread the samples thru the keys. After like 3 months not being so productive...
I decided to go back to Logic - Reason combo, Im sorry guys.

But until 3 months ago, I got a MPC4000 for REALLY CHEEAAPP!
a guy sold me for US1000!! its cheap isnt it?
The only problem was 3 dead pads, so what....

Now Im rockin it with midi sync to Logic + Reason combo!!!
I love it better than the ASR, honestly

The ASR is sittin on the corner, lookin at me all the time...

But one day I would do allsample beats, with ASR and 4000 combo,
just for the sake fun of it.
Dont worry dear ASR, I'll roll with you one day.

=)
Old 5th December 2007
  #27
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jbuehler's Avatar
 

I have had my DP4+ for a month and it is absolutely the most brilliant design of an effects box I have ever encountered. It is litteraly 4 effects chips from the ASR-10 in one box each with their own routing (TRS in and out on back).

The effects are dark and warm in a good way. Probably not good for vocals but good for A LOT of other stuff.

Never had an effects processor with a 300 page manual either.

It is a swiss army knife and the DP4+ will be worth more and more and more. Ensoniq made nice stuff and it is too bad they are gone. I hate talking it up because I may want to get another one on evilBay and the prices surely will continue to rise.
Old 5th December 2007
  #28
I love the asr-10 effects. They are really versatile and you can run sounds through the sampler then back out and use it as an effects module. My motif can't do that. The asr's effects have some good character and I really miss them. I love the delays, the amp simulators and combined with the resampling though the ASR, you get this great combination. Mine has been broken for a while and I am dropping it off to the soniq in about a month.
Old 5th December 2007
  #29
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halfguard's Avatar
 

ive had an asr rack for about a month now. i still havent learned everything. im trying to learn this and logic 8 at the same time.... anyways, ive just been using it as a sound module and it does sound good..the problem is the way i have everything thing set up its kinda of a pain to sample ect....i dont know if i need a little mixer or something so i dont have to keep repatching (i hate that)
Old 5th December 2007
  #30
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Alex Specht's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by halfguard View Post
i dont know if i need a little mixer or something so i dont have to keep repatching (i hate that)
you can get a patch bay so that at least you dont have to crawl or reach around the back.

ideally you should have a good mixer and a multichannel interface, but $50 will get you the convenience at least
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