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Emu 1212M Soundcard: Good? Audio Interfaces
Old 18th May 2006
  #31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psyko/Acoustics
This is true for any DAW.
Yeah but this ain't a DAW...and that's the problem for some, they spent x amount of time learning their DAW and don't want to do that for a Sound Card/ Interface.

Patchmix is a bit like learning Logic. It's a lot more extensive than a lot of guys want which is why it's harder to learn. Once you've have learnt it though it makes sense becomes logical (sorry for the pun!) and very useful
Old 18th May 2006
  #32
Gear Addict
 
Psyko/Acoustics's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by blayz2002
Yeah but this ain't a DAW...and that's the problem for some, they spent x amount of time learning their DAW and don't want to do that for a Sound Card/ Interface.

Patchmix is a bit like learning Logic. It's a lot more extensive than a lot of guys want which is why it's harder to learn. Once you've have learnt it though it makes sense becomes logical (sorry for the pun!) and very useful
Yeah, I hear ya. I got annoyed with it because for some reason I couldn't route the turntable input into Cubase quickly, and I didn't have time to figure it out so I had to use other means to record the TT. User error, I'm sure. I thought it would be as simple as "Where are the inputs? What are they named? Where are they in Cubase? etc."

BTW Logic is also great but also annoys me with that environment thing and all the various pages. If I had spent the time, I'm sure I would've liked it.

I wanted to buy some up to date software and not have buy a new computer for $3000!

When I made my DAW comment I meant that learning a DAW also carries with it the same issues as a hardware mixer... so we've all been there. Amek BIG, anyone? SSL 4000? Arrgh! Wish I coulda had more time.
Old 18th May 2006
  #33
Lives for gear
 

Perhaps

Quote:
Originally Posted by dtheone
You get what you pay for?

Just because something uses high end components doesn't mean the product is high end?

I think alot of people are to caught up in specs and aren't focusing on making the music. I've been paid 1500 and better for remixes. My only soundcard was the Wavecenter PCI and my motheboards onboard sound dsp. I may not be on the map as a premier remixer/producer but i'm getting paid. I love the experience of being in big budget studios (quad studio NYC) and seeing the same results in mixing from professional engineers after hours upon hours long sessions using Pro Tools HD.

It's not what you use people, it's how you use it. It's about you and your talents.
I take advantage of mingling with recent graduates from IAR and NYU's audio program. If you record your stuff properly there's very little that needs to be done to blow up your sound, the engineers stick to the basics. They start out balancing everything. Then it's about the relationship you form with them. Some Producers want certain aspects of their track to stand out. They want Bottom all over the mix. Pop producers do everything in the mid range (for radio play)
Listen to a Dr Dre produced track and a Jermain Dupree track, both have characteristics that is unique to each producer. The drums are processed completely different in their tracks.

It really is about the producer/remixer individually or the team they have built around them.

Don't fall into the hype about a 200.00 sound card over a 1500.00 sound card. I've been paid more than people with 40,000 dollar set ups who were contacted to do their remix.

I can't change your mind (the mendez club mix) is an example. You can hear examples of each track on Itunes, amazon.com, napster etc.....
I can proudly say that until my remix was added; that song went unsigned for over 3 months, it was almost scrapped. I reconstructed the vocals for my remix. The entire mix was done with Reason 2.5 and 3.0 with recycle to create rex files to import into reasons rex player and nnxt.

This was on a pc with the wavecenter pci card. I had the yamaha 01v mixer at the time but I didnt' do any processing through it. I fed the spdif out on the wavecenter to the spdif in on the yamaha 01v which was directly connected to a pair of event 20/20 bas.
Make noise 2006 was the same. I finished that mix without the yamaha 01v.

a snip of all the songs are on http://www.myspace.com/davetheonemendez

I'm not dissing or trying to put myself above anyone. I have a long ass way to go before I establish myself or for anyone to consider me established. This is just my opinion regarding hi end or low end.

The 1212m is a great soundcard now that i have it working on one program; I'm using it on a 2,000 dollar legal registered version of software (nuendo)

Much Respect
Perhaps you're getting outstanding results using the 1212M. But I'd bet that nearly all your sounds other than human voice are midi in most cases (I checked out the tracks on MySpace). That makes an huge difference vs. sending a stereo mix from an analog board into the 1212M's 1/4 inch inputs. I guess what I'm really saying is that the A/D conversion of analog sounds on the 1212m is pretty poor. There's a big difference between mixing ITB and judging a card and mixing to a card from an analog console and judging the card.

I thought your stuff sounded decent, but it didn't wow me. It sounds pretty thin, but maybe that's what you're going for. Thin and bright is "in" right now.

Peace. No offense. I think my points are very relevant to this conversation.
Old 18th May 2006
  #34
Gear Nut
 

No, no offense taken at all. Myspace reconverts all mp3's to a flash format with another compression of the mp3. Make noise 2006 is bottom heavy! The other tracks, definitley mixed for radio (midrange)

Thanks for your feedback.

PS, I beg to differ re: the DAC's ADC's on emu's card. I stand by the card and just finished a song in nuendo with it. Brilliant results. I'll post as soon as I get paid for it.
Old 18th May 2006
  #35
Lives for gear
 
KevWest's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by doctah
...yes...I was exaggerating...more for effect than anything.

but...your address bar does say 'gearslutz' doesn't it? A low end forum discussing a $1000 single channel mic pre for a hobbyist studio? 002r is low end? Come with me to rapmusic or futureproducers so we can discuss a samson usb mic and pcdj software - THAT's low end...you overpaid @#$%'s heh

Kinda depressing - I type a damn essay - and you only found that one little sentence worth discussing. Maybe if I just said "depends" or "apogee", I'd get a better response from you. Maybe even my very own thread
isnt that the truth. cats would go nuts over ur setup if they knew u had anything that costed more than $300 at those sites lol
Old 22nd May 2006
  #36
Gear Maniac
 

Must admit, some really interesting opinions voiced here.I've been hearin much of the same........with some liking it and others not feeling it at all.But I have known some to get really good results from it.

Just the Acid Pro story seems to be a problem though.How's it working with Cubase though?Any known problems perhaps?I presume the same remedying procedure used for Nuendo, could be applied to Cubase as well.
Old 22nd May 2006
  #37
Gear Nut
 

I'm definitley experiencing problems with Nuendo now; lock ups and crash (so far this happens with Emulator x only) definitley frustrated. It's time to pull the card out and look at other solutions. I am starting to agree with the people that say, you get what you pay for.
Old 22nd May 2006
  #38
Lives for gear
 
KevWest's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dtheone
I'm definitley experiencing problems with Nuendo now; lock ups and crash (so far this happens with Emulator x only) definitley frustrated. It's time to pull the card out and look at other solutions. I am starting to agree with the people that say, you get what you pay for.
have u tried emulator x on another program? im curious if its just w/ nuendo kuz i was thinking about buying a 1820m just for emulator x and the inputs but if emulator x crashes it aint worth the money
Old 23rd May 2006
  #39
Gear Nut
 

I haven't been able to get it working stable on anything. In acid pro as soon as you go to play back the emulator x track no midi is transmitted. You have to delete the midi track; then delete the channel strip in Acid Pro (on the bottom) you then have to create a new midi track select emulator x, record, then it happens all over again.

Mind you; this is the ONLY plugin this happens with; this does not happen with Kontakt 2, Hypersonic, Korg etc.....

In Nuendo Emulator X runs fine unless I set up a session with 8 stereo tracks and 8 midi tracks. Again; this only happens with Emulator X, this does not happen with any of my other plugins.

I have alot of testing to do. Reason 3.0 runs beautifully with the Emu sound card. Not one problem. Emulator x runs perfectly when I run the app by itself (which is absolutley useless)

I have a decent PC Rig (Abit Ic7 max 3 motherboard, Pentium 4 3.2ghz /2 gigs ram
two seagate serial ata drives 160 and 120 (one for Windows XP Pro sp2 OS and applications) the other drive is just for Audio.

None of these problems existed when I had the digi 002r with PTLE 6.9, 7.0. But that's when I was only using pro tools. Digi's asio drivers are not available in any other application; only a specialized stereo driver. This frustrated the hell out of me.

I have uninstalled emulator x; acid pro 6, Nuendo 3 and the emu asio drivers. I am now going to defrag my c- drive then re-install the emu asio drivers then each app one by one. If that does not work. I am going to buy a third Serial ATA drive; do a fresh install of windows in that drive and utilize that drive specifically for Nuendo, Emulator X, Sony Acid Pro, Sound Forge, Recycle, Reason 3.0, VST PLUGS and VSTIs, the second drive (my original current os and app drive) will be my project drive and I'll use it to boot once in a while (and uninstall my apps one by one leaving just the project files) till i get everything working right in my new primary drive.

This beats the hell out of backing everything up or ghosting a drive that's registry is probably all screwed up (i just don't have the time to go through the grueling task of trying to repair a screwed up windows registry) and reformatting my drive.

Boy does this suck! All this just to get Emulator X to work.
Old 23rd May 2006
  #40
Gear Maniac
 

Hey Dave, sounds heavy.Good luck with the re-installation.

Wondering though, even though Nuendo and Cubase are essentially similar, it may be worthwhile checking if a Emulator X works ok in a copy of Cubase.And u say the Emu troubleshooting crew cant help u at all with these problems?
Old 23rd May 2006
  #41
Lives for gear
 

Off topic, but need help

I can't seem to get the 1212M to receive data from the S/PDIF input, or at least can't figure out how to route it so I can record what's coming in to Wavelab 5.0. Any thoughts?
Old 23rd May 2006
  #42
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddstone
Hey Dave, sounds heavy.Good luck with the re-installation.

Wondering though, even though Nuendo and Cubase are essentially similar, it may be worthwhile checking if a Emulator X works ok in a copy of Cubase.And u say the Emu troubleshooting crew cant help u at all with these problems?

The tech I was dealing with told me to re-format my hard drive and that we would take it from there.

Oh btw, the sample converter that comes with emulator x doesn't work neither. It couldn't convert an Emu Cd-rom. I'm 90 percent done bothering with anything emu.

If anyone is honestly interested I'm selling the emulator x (1.5) (with 1212m) for 175.00,------- the 1212m alone at this price is a good deal.
Old 24th May 2006
  #43
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KevWest's Avatar
 

but the 1212m alone is like $130 lol
Old 24th May 2006
  #44
Gear Nut
 

It's 199.00 everywhere (1212m alone)

Emulator x 2 is 299.00 with no soundcard.
249.00 if you own any emu hardware and 79.00 for the upgrade.

So even with the 175.00; you get the 1212m, emulator x 1.5, you get the upgrade to emulator x 2 for 79.00 (259.00 total) 40 dollars cheaper than emulator x2 standalone without the 1212m.
Old 24th May 2006
  #45
Lives for gear
 
KevWest's Avatar
 

I saw the 1212m for $130 at GC maybe it was clearance i dunno. but ive also seen it for cheaper than 200 on froogle. froogle = love
Old 31st May 2006
  #46
Gear Nut
 

Ok; I went out and bought a new SATA 160 Seagate Hard drive (this totals 3 SATA drives now in my workstation 160gb x 2 and 120 gb)
I could not revive windows xp sp2 (in my original drive) with an update on the original drive, I got stuck in the boot loop; start windows normally, use last know configuration, start windows in safe mode etc...
I tried to repair windows (on my original drive) and it did not work; chkdsk did not work neither. So instead of possibly losing some audio and project files that I never migrated to my dedicated audio drive I opted to spend 109.00 at bestbuy for a new seagate SATA 160 drive and re-installed windows xp sp2 on that.

I am happy to report that the Emu 1212m card and emulator x 1.52 works flawlessly now with Nuendo 3.2

In acid pro 6 there are major issues with emulator x as a vsti, sony is on the case though and emu is working closely with them.

I had to set the record straight. Apparently My registry was seriously screwed up and there was a problem with my boot.config, a serious one. I spotted this first when installing the Uad-1 card but thought it was a Uad-1 problem. Nuendo was crashing because of this too. I have to re-install my many apps. So far Reason 3.04 is in and working fine with the 1212m, so is Sound Forge 8 and Vegas 6.
Kontakt 2 vsti is a-ok. I'm going to install all of them one by one.

Now that I've spent my entire weekend on technical issues and all is working well, I now have a creative block. This is what sucks about computer DAW's. You become so involved technically and so much time is lost making music.

Anyone looking to get an emu soundcard (1212m or 1820m or 1616M) can rest assure that they are getting a good quality entry level soundcard at an affordable price. It's great for someone like myself who spends more time using vsti's and pre-recorded vocals for remixing. I am definitley looking into getting a quality mic pre to add to the setup.

Peace and Respect

Dave
Old 31st May 2006
  #47
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bloodstone
I can't seem to get the 1212M to receive data from the S/PDIF input, or at least can't figure out how to route it so I can record what's coming in to Wavelab 5.0. Any thoughts?
Patchmix;

This tricky little bastard has preset environments; on the right hand side go to the little bitty folders (they're lined up horizontally, very small) and select new session.
Each session is specific for a certain setup. Look at the routing for the main L and R on default and try to duplicate those settings for your spdif.

I hate patchmix but i'm starting to get used to it.
Old 31st May 2006
  #48
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Nahuel's Avatar
 

i just bought the 1212 cause i'm not rich enought to buy the fireface 800 at the moment (will do), thinking it would be better than my echo mia... but... well the DA/AD is (maybe) a lil better (i think i have mo low/top end) but at the same time the drivers suck ass!(i have the latest, just downloaded from emu) i can use mo vstz with the mia, and the patchmix is wreid... i have some soundblaster feelings at the moment, reminded me my ol ass sound blaster live!1 and that rack with half the plugs not working... was feeling the esi 4000 at a friend place recently... emu has changed a lot!
Old 31st May 2006
  #49
Gear Nut
 

As far as patchmix use the default; it should work with everything. At least in the case of Nuendo and Reason it does.

A fresh install might be the cure. It's alot to ask but if you really want to use the card and the drivers aren't working for you it really is the only way. If it still doesnt' work at that point call emu tech and stay on the phone with them; they've been pretty good on emails too.
Old 31st May 2006
  #50
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Nahuel's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dtheone
As far as patchmix use the default; it should work with everything. At least in the case of Nuendo and Reason it does.

A fresh install might be the cure. It's alot to ask but if you really want to use the card and the drivers aren't working for you it really is the only way. If it still doesnt' work at that point call emu tech and stay on the phone with them; they've been pretty good on emails too.
yes it works, i have no real pb, it's just that when i play some projects with a lot of vst it's ok with the mia, and i have to erase several (vstz) to hear it on the emu without mad bounces and ****. I think the drivers and/or the patchmix need more cpu than the mia or something like that. but thank you anyway.I was just sharing information.
Old 31st May 2006
  #51
Gear Nut
 

That's good to know. I'm still puttin it through the paces.

So you're saying the Emu card does not handle well with multiple vsts running in the host application? I wonder why that is?
Old 1st June 2006
  #52
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well probably cause the drivers/patchmix need more cpu than the echo mia console/drivers, I can use several vstz with the 1212, but less than using the mia, but my cpu is old, it's a intel 2.4 (with the hyper dont know what x2) and 1.5 go/ram.
Old 23rd June 2006
  #53
Gear Head
 

One thing I've noticed, a lot of programs won't even recognize it as a soundcard. Avid and ATI MMC don't even know it's there. And it doesn't seem capable of bit-perfect pass through of Dolby Digital, DTS, and LPCM from DVD's to an external DAC, which Microsoft requires of XP compatible sound cards with digital outs. I also have Vegas 6 and Soundforge 8 freezing with Adobe Default Sound Drivers as the name of the window on the task bar. My $15 Aopen card had better general Windows functionality than this thing, and that one had perfectly working SPDIF I/O.
Old 24th June 2006
  #54
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reticuli
One thing I've noticed, a lot of programs won't even recognize it as a soundcard. Avid and ATI MMC don't even know it's there. And it doesn't seem capable of bit-perfect pass through of Dolby Digital, DTS, and LPCM from DVD's to an external DAC, which Microsoft requires of XP compatible sound cards with digital outs. I also have Vegas 6 and Soundforge 8 freezing with Adobe Default Sound Drivers as the name of the window on the task bar. My $15 Aopen card had better general Windows functionality than this thing, and that one had perfectly working SPDIF I/O.
MMC? That's the DVD player thing that comes w/ ATI video cards right? I have an AIW card...it plays from the emu. Gotta put a wave-out in patchmix.

...when asked something like "When will I have DTS pass-through on this card" - one of the emu guys over @ the unofficial forum said something to the effect of:

"...don't buy a product because you think it will be able to do something one day...buy it for what it can do now and stfu!!"
(...I added the last part )

...sure would be nice though...
Old 24th June 2006
  #55
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TREMORS's Avatar
My two cents..
I have the 0404, it's now in a box.

EMU is indeed terrible about driver support, I've heard this a thousand times, i think.

To second something someone else said..
It does indeed seem very picky with mobo's, or something...
Maybe if you built your own computer, it might work, but if you are trying to slap it into your gaming/internet pc you own, to just do some hobby recording, I dont think you will have much success.
Granted, this is the 0404...

And, in reply to the poster about reading manuals...
That I can relate to, but I still think the PatchMix is needlessly complicated and confusing.
It;s a hardware device..
I'd expect the inputs to go to my DAW software, and out thru it's outputs w/o having an additional software "patchmix" thing running.

In the end, I think the patchmix thing could be very useful, and perhaps the 1212 and 1840 are better...

But, in all honesty, if you wanna drop only 200-300 bucks, I think the tascam us-122 is a better choice, depending on how much USB stuff you are running.
That may be heresy on this forum, and I for one hated the us-122, but after a complete hard drive wipe and reinstall on my "everything" pc..(the one I am typing this on) it seems to work very well.
I just use it as a "scratch pad" kind of workstation, while watching TV dfegad

I have my dual core pc with digi002r and other stuff in the other room (still very low end, I know)

good luck!

Update: the us-122 is unstable at times, too.
so, ignore what I said above!
Old 2nd December 2007
  #56
Gear Head
 

Oh hello me. I didn't see you there. Just reading this old thread about the sound quality of 1212m.

The Adobe sound problem was a conflict with Premiere. Uninstalled that program and the Emu started working fine afterward. That's not in the manual or any information from Emu. They had no idea what was going on with it. But it fixed it. I rarely use Premiere anyway.

The version of Avid I use doesn't have ASIO drivers for some reason and doesn't like the Emu wav strip. I just disable the Emu temporarily when I use Avid. The Aopen in the background kicks right in.

Also, the Aopen is set up for DTS/DD passthrough and can function in the background for that fixed roll with the Emu still running in the foreground without any problem. You cannot adjust the Aopen setting when the Emu is active, but the two are filling in the gaps of the other and I really don't need to change the passthrough anyway.

The Emu PatchMix DSP is very powerful. You just have to read the manual.

I do not like how all the Analog I/O's strips are stereo, though the connectors are mono. The TRS slots are always running balanced mono, even with a -10 consumer nominal signal, which just boosts the signal. The -120dB specs are all for pro nominal balanced. Considering what differential amps can do, it's best to run only in balanced since running in unbalanced will amplify the unique noise in the unused line. This should have been hardware switchable on the card to pop the diff amps out of the path and switch to a consumer nominal input amp.

The math involved is not perfect in its implimentation, so you are not getting a bit-perfect rendition of the original data strait out of the converters when you even change the balance over to one side. This also prevents you from doing simple & perfect stereo analog ASIO paths from Patchmix that can simplify recording and allow use of something like Soundforge for single-track stereo recording...like archiving analog recordings or a live stereo downmix. The only way to go stereo ASIO analog is to combine the dual-mono panned stereo I/O past the faders and put an ASIO In down next to the master. However, the faders, panners, and everything else are not doing bit perfect, even if everything is at unity and there are no effects. Send an HDCD signal in SPIDIF into it and you'll see it get mucked up once it goes out to a decoder.

Finally, now that I have started using the A/D converters more, I find them to be rather dry and dull sounding. Even my HK AVR7200 when inputting analog unbalanced into the front inputs on the receiver (which the AD/DA chips convert against my will even with the DSP off) can sometimes fool me into thinking I'm using the rear 8-channel direct inputs. Just a little truncating and discreting of the transients, and some minor shrinking of the soundstage. The Emu has never once fooled me into thinking I was hearing the original analog signal, even with a live 24/96 conversion and A-B comparing to the analog going right into the amp. Dry, dull, non-liquid, and lacking in that last bit of shimmer and refinement in the highs. In fact, I'd say there's a tiny bit of false texturing being added to the original analog...like a mild grit or subtle distortion. The original, smooth, liquid, lively, refined analog signal is replaced with something significantly inferior. And more significantly so than just my consumer receiver is capable of.

For the price, the 1212m is not bad overall. And while I don't own Emulator X, I do know how good the Emu samples and effects are having owned a souped-up XL-7 some time ago. The DA converters are decent in this, assuming you put the card as far away from every other card and power supply in your computer or get the breakout box versions. They pick up noise pretty easily otherwise. The SPDIF and ADAT digital support is also excellent for pro uses. But if you can afford a higher-end AD converter system, get something else.
Old 2nd December 2007
  #57
Gear Maniac
 

FYI: the 2.0 drivers that have been in beta for (seemingly) the last 2 years have mono strips.
Old 2nd December 2007
  #58
Gear Head
 
cardinal's Avatar
 

Well, get it while you can E-Mu went under.
Old 2nd December 2007
  #59
Lives for gear
 
RusRant's Avatar
 

Quote:
Well, get it while you can E-Mu went under.
Where did you hear that?
Old 2nd December 2007
  #60
Gear Head
 

Yeah, I'm interested in reading whatever article that tidbit came from.

Also, can someone post a link to the latest 2.0 beta drivers for the 1212m?
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