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Bigger Production Sound
Old 11th May 2006
  #1
Gear Maniac
 
atlantis's Avatar
 

Bigger Production Sound

Im tryin to get a phatter production sound like TI,YOUNG JOC,LUDACRIS and so on.My beats come out soundin ok but im tryin to get that phatt industry sound.I use the MPC1000&2000XL,MOTIF 6,KORG TRINITY and also other gear.All my gear is ran into a Tascam dm-24 and goes out spdif to a M-AUDIO 24/96 sound card into Nuendo 3.0.I dont put anything on the insert trax in Nuendo.Also I have the line gain turned up on the tascam but Im not happy with the sound.So can anyone give me some info on what I need to do.
Old 11th May 2006
  #2
Lives for gear
 

Getting them Professionaly Mixed would be a huge start

Mixing is just as important if not in some cases more important then the production itself IMO.

Maybe grab a preorder of Tonys Hiphop Mixing DVD from his site. IM sure it will have a wealth of information to help you.

Last edited by tekn0; 11th May 2006 at 06:52 PM..
Old 11th May 2006
  #3
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con?one's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by atlantis
Im tryin to get a phatter production sound like TI,YOUNG JOC,LUDACRIS and so on.My beats come out soundin ok but im tryin to get that phatt industry sound.I use the MPC1000&2000XL,MOTIF 6,KORG TRINITY and also other gear.All my gear is ran into a Tascam dm-24 and goes out spdif to a M-AUDIO 24/96 sound card into Nuendo 3.0.I dont put anything on the insert trax in Nuendo.Also I have the line gain turned up on the tascam but Im not happy with the sound.So can anyone give me some info on what I need to do.
although alot of the people you referenced are using more and often better equipment, it's all about you. plenty of people have gotten a great sound with less. i agree, pick up tony's dvd, i'm sure it'll be a good start.
also, i believe you can take the 24/96 out of the picture by getting the firewire card for your dm24 and using it as your interface. works with nuendo fine.
Old 11th May 2006
  #4
Gear Maniac
 
atlantis's Avatar
 

Come on guys I need some info on how to get a bigger signal and a bigger sound.So what Im sayin is what can I use to track production to get a bigger sound from the jump.
Old 11th May 2006
  #5
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con?one's Avatar
 

why don't you post some audio so maybe we can see what you're lacking.
Old 11th May 2006
  #6
Gear Maniac
 
atlantis's Avatar
 

Here is a sample.Tell me what u think.I was just foolin around when i made this.
Attached Files

Underwater 4($500.00) 30 SEC..wav (5.64 MB, 543 views)

Old 11th May 2006
  #7
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Jolle_Cobra's Avatar
 

Actually thought it sounded big! Much bigger than my stuff..
Old 11th May 2006
  #8
Gear Nut
 
gitarrero's Avatar
 

..the "fatness" doesn't come necessairly through equipment only - A LOT is about knowledge.

If I was you, I would invest there - learn to analyze, where exactly your sounding problems are, redo, compare, make mistakes, learn.

I don't think that there is a "magic unit" out there that just makes great sounding productions - it's always a chain that makes a production sounding big, and shure, one part in this chain is the equipment (not the most important, though).

cheers, Marty
Old 11th May 2006
  #9
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Big 3rd's Avatar
 

One thing that I've been doing a lot lately is a lot of critical listening. And in doing so, I'm finding out that what really makes a mix sound big is the contrast between your background sounds and those up front and in your face, your mono sounds and those that are stereo, and so on. It's being able to make everything fit by way of compression, eq, and effects. Also, if used efficiently, these three can make your sound field appear much larger than it started before it was separated and mixed. It's just getting the perfect combination between ALL three is the tough part. Level the mix, use eq and compression to make everything melt together as a whole and to let everything be heard. Then go to effects. At this point you should at least have an idea of how you want things placed within your mix. Some things will work out to what you imagined and others things will need to be improvised. Improvisation can be one of the biggest keys to mixing.

Now this is what I'm LEARNING....I'm damn near in the same boat with you heh but I'm getting close.
Old 11th May 2006
  #10
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atlantis's Avatar
 

What are u guys useing for track droping.What is your sinal chain.
Old 12th May 2006
  #11
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leeja32207's Avatar
 

Have you tried palaying around with some reverb? Reverb done well tends to make your sound roomy'er.

That sample you posted already sounds pritty good to me.

Only other thing i can think of is you might want to consider your monitors, maybe there not powerfull enough to give you that phat sound your looking for. Or you could add a subwoofer, if you dont already have one.
Old 12th May 2006
  #12
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InsaneMixaken's Avatar
 

a better mix job will do the trick widen a few things out
Old 12th May 2006
  #13
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Alex Niedt's Avatar
 

Yep, a good control over time-based processing will help solve your problem. Gotta create the space that isn't there.
Old 12th May 2006
  #14
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Jolle_Cobra's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Niedt
Yep, a good control over time-based processing will help solve your problem. Gotta create the space that isn't there.
Can you explain that? You mean reverb? Examples?
Old 12th May 2006
  #15
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Alex Niedt's Avatar
 

Yeah, SUBTLY utilizing sends for various reverb types and delays can dramatically increase the size and depth of your individual sounds and/or overall mix. Tools like chorus and wideners can also enlarge your tracks in subtle ways. And on a more scientific level, I suppose..."psychoacoustic sound source localization" can be achieved through the Haas effect. This is where I stop and you google...haha. I'm just now getting into this stuff, myself...definitely worth trying.
Old 12th May 2006
  #16
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Zacchino's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Niedt
I suppose..."psychoacoustic sound source localization" can be achieved through the Haas effect.
That definitely sounds interesting. Can you please tell us where your start the reading ? Any particular website ?
Old 13th May 2006
  #17
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Bob Katz's book "Mastering Audio" has a section devoted to it if I remember correctly. It's a great book to own anyway, so pick it up.
Old 13th May 2006
  #18
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i'd say choosing better quality sounds would help a lot----your stick is cool, and the hihats cool, but that shaker on the right is a pretty cheap sound-----the kik sounds like it couldve been cool, but it sounds a little far back, or too compressed or something.... i think if you start with quality sounds, you'd bring everything up a notch...
Old 13th May 2006
  #19
Gear Addict
 

drum/key layering, compression, panning placement, verb, making sure to cut out overlapping frequencies sounds.
Old 13th May 2006
  #20
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reinvention.of.man's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Disco D
drum/key layering, compression, panning placement, verb, making sure to cut out overlapping frequencies sounds.


Also good sounding montiors and acoustics will help you achieve your goal.
Old 13th May 2006
  #21
Gear Maniac
 

MIXING OTB

Ever since I started mixing OTB, my mix sounds much bigger, of course knowing how to use eq, comp & fx helps. I use Soundcraft Delta 200, great mixer, need to get mod soon!!!!
Old 13th May 2006
  #22
Gear Maniac
 
atlantis's Avatar
 

OK so u guys think its just a few things I need to do to get that phatt production sound.Becaues Im tryin to figure out why my tracks are not comin out soundin like Shawty Redd(Jeezy),Sha Money(50cent),Shondrae(Ludacris).There kicks and overall production sounds bigger and stronger than mine.Is it just that there are runnin there stuff through pre's and compressors before its mixed and masterd or are there some tricks and secrets when mixing.Can it be a good eq such as waves plugin or a uad-1 eq that I can use to get that sound.Also my control room is pretty small it 10x12 and it is treated so my sound control room is ok.But I do use so so monitors Im doin my own mixing and mastering on Alesis M1 Mk2 monitors.Im not useing a high price pre and i dont have high price converters.Im useing a Tascam dm 24 to track my beats with the line gain turned up some and it run straight into a M-Audio 24/96 sound card through spdif at 44.1k.

Now as far as my drums and keys I layer my kick somtime and some time I dont.But I do layer my keys all the time and my snare all the time.Also I got some my drum samples from Bangin beats .com and I use some of the factory one that come wit the mpc but I try to tweak them some.So could it be that my drum samples are just no the right ones.Well anyway sorry for the long wind .Im just tryin to get this problem fix becaues I want my music to sound as good as it can be. l
Old 13th May 2006
  #23
Gear Addict
 

get some outboard analog gear and a cheap sub. I use the Alesis MK1 in brasil (im borrowing them from someone until i sneak some mackies or better down) with a yamaha 10" home theater sub and decent acoustic treatment in a room about the same size and my mixes here are fine. The main difference is that the front end of my MPC and synths here is A Designs pres, I got Pro Tools HD and a Fatso...
Old 13th May 2006
  #24
Gear Maniac
 
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Yo really I just need to get a good pre and compressor and I should be in the paint.My monitor system isnt the best in the world but its ok.I talked to TONY(high profileaudio) and he thinks all I need is a API A2D and a disstressor and I should be able to get major label sound.Also with good mixing I might add. Also I was thinkin if gettin a sub to with my monitors.Do anyone know of a ggod one to get.
Old 14th May 2006
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atlantis
Yo really I just need to get a good pre and compressor and I should be in the paint.....All I need is a API A2D and a disstressor and I should be able to get major label sound. Also with good mixing I might add.

For what its worth, please be aware that no pre or compressor is gonna be the difference between a major label sound and a sub par sound.... Studying frequencies, and immense amounts of practice with eq's and compressors, ANY decent eq or compressors for that matter, is gonna help you WAY more then any purchase will... SOrry, i just feel that often i see a lot of dudes jump to buy new ****, thinking its gonna fix their problem, before really learning to master their current gear... I guess if you feel you've got a complete understanding of how to manipulate the sound perfectly, and you cant do any better with what you have, then i'd say it might help... just my opinion
Old 14th May 2006
  #26
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TonyBelmont's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by filterayok
For what its worth, please be aware that no pre or compressor is gonna be the difference between a major label sound and a sub par sound.... Studying frequencies, and immense amounts of practice with eq's and compressors, ANY decent eq or compressors for that matter, is gonna help you WAY more then any purchase will... SOrry, i just feel that often i see a lot of dudes jump to buy new ****, thinking its gonna fix their problem, before really learning to master their current gear... I guess if you feel you've got a complete understanding of how to manipulate the sound perfectly, and you cant do any better with what you have, then i'd say it might help... just my opinion
I've said it a million times... The recording engineer's degree doesn't come in the box when you buy a piece of gear.

With that said.... The API and Distressors would be a great combo, and a huge step up in quality over the current setup.
Old 14th May 2006
  #27
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Big 3rd's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by filterayok
For what its worth, please be aware that no pre or compressor is gonna be the difference between a major label sound and a sub par sound.... Studying frequencies, and immense amounts of practice with eq's and compressors, ANY decent eq or compressors for that matter, is gonna help you WAY more then any purchase will... SOrry, i just feel that often i see a lot of dudes jump to buy new ****, thinking its gonna fix their problem, before really learning to master their current gear... I guess if you feel you've got a complete understanding of how to manipulate the sound perfectly, and you cant do any better with what you have, then i'd say it might help... just my opinion
Very well said.
Old 14th May 2006
  #28
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Big 3rd's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by filterayok
For what its worth, please be aware that no pre or compressor is gonna be the difference between a major label sound and a sub par sound.... Studying frequencies, and immense amounts of practice with eq's and compressors, ANY decent eq or compressors for that matter, is gonna help you WAY more then any purchase will... SOrry, i just feel that often i see a lot of dudes jump to buy new ****, thinking its gonna fix their problem, before really learning to master their current gear... I guess if you feel you've got a complete understanding of how to manipulate the sound perfectly, and you cant do any better with what you have, then i'd say it might help... just my opinion
Very well said.
Old 14th May 2006
  #29
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after listening to your example ... i really dont think that the gear you mention will bring the magic cure. it all depends how you build the puzzle together. i dig what you did but it sounds like its not really what your after ?

if you want to have it more slammin, you should mix it more slammin.
sounds easier as it probably is, but if you check which tricks are available, its really not rocket science to get it started. painting the picture of course depends all on your personal skills and experience.

the hardest part ( for me at least ) is to find the desired relations between the instruments in a mixdown. it really starts with the arrangement. a lot of time people tend to have busy arrangements which are really hard to mix.

even if the mixdown isnt busy it needs some good ears to get the relation between the elements right to get that " nice sound ". a lot of this depends on your monitoring and room setup and when working itb on your d/a. a lot of times monitoring to loud or to low is bringing a lot of unwanted aspects in the end.

so i would make sure first that your not mixing to loud. cause in the end the BANGING LOUD SOUND will turn into a tiny lush piece of cake. so do your homework with your monitoring setup and you will get much better results quiet soon.

hearing low end is really complicated and a lot of times i cant even tell to which key a bass drum is tuned if listening to a mixdown. its kinda hard to focus on the low end so this takes a lot of exercise and experience to get it right.

if you want to make your drums more in your face sounding i would try to keep your " root " sounds mono and in the center of the soundfield. make sure the snare sound isnt covering your bassdrum sound and vice versa.

try to cut the lows on the snare etc.

if you want to have your drums more solid try paralel compression. simply copy f.ex your snare track assign a compressor to the copied track and start with f.ex
treshhold -50 ratio 2,5:1 attack ( as fast as possible ) release 250 ms .
this should give you a more solid sound. make sure you compensate for the delay the assigned plugin creates otherwise youll end up with wired phasemadness.

you can bus those tracks to an aux and do here a LITTLE of compression ( and eqing of course )
take care with those tools especially with the attack. match the volumes when you compare compressed and uncompressed sound etc. dont fool yourself just for the fact that its getting louder or softer.

if you want to widen f.ex that snare use a send and assign a short stereo delay f.ex ~ 30ms on both sides ( can be of course L 28 R 32 etc. ). a send on the bus f.ex -10 should give you a more realistic sound. and its STEREO now. use f.ex a reverb on another return and send the delay to the verb. that way you can create dimension.

if its still not phat enough, now send all your drum busses to f.ex to other busses.
keep one unprocessed and use HEAVY compression on the other one. f.ex 20:1 gain reduction ~10db midfast attack fast-midfast release. mix the processed bus to taste. it works pretty good here in relation 0/-10 . try and send your bass to those busses as well if you want a pumping sound. the release is VERY important.

you can throw an eq on the processed bus as well and boost like 60HZ & 8/10/12KHZ a lot ( pultec style ) so you get a nice fundament etc.

very important imho is that when you start mixing that you have your snare f.ex @ -10 on your master bus. because if you feed your mix bus to low and you raise it in the end everything will change dramatically. same goes for overloading it.

NO i didnt invent all that stuff ( thanks to those who did ) and i am far away from being an expert. just thought i share those helpful ideas on this sunday morning.
i am gonna turn off this pc now and take a nap !

hope this helped you a lil ???

Old 14th May 2006
  #30
Here for the gear
 
Jolle_Cobra's Avatar
 

this should give you a more solid sound. make sure you compensate for the delay the assigned plugin creates otherwise youll end up with wired phasemadness.

How to do that compensate? Moving the tracks or what?
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