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Akai Pro to announce the MPC RENAISSANCE
Old 25th February 2012
  #1231
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E-Maddox's Avatar
 

Quote:
MPC3000 users wanted the numbers
It seemed like they would want to focus on the wishes on current prospects and not rebuilding the 3000. 3000 users won't touch the newer hardware MPC for the most part let alone software based product. They should pay more attention to perspective Maschine converts and the buyers of the last 3 hardware units. These are the people most likely to drop cash on a Ren or Studio. Akai should have a better consensus when making such decisions.
Old 25th February 2012
  #1232
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I like the numbers on the ren and waveform on the screen.
Old 26th February 2012
  #1233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobbs_Won View Post
wow.....so as if the Nukai fan boy base wasn't already a niche market....they just whittled it down to an ever bigger niche...the 3000 user??

Startin to look like Akai really dropped the ball on this one....
Yeah. I have a feeling it might be just an excuse for cheaping out and using a text-only LCD.
Old 26th February 2012
  #1234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blastbeat View Post
Yeah. I have a feeling it might be just an excuse for cheaping out and using a text-only LCD.
It's a graphic display for sure. The sampling level meter and the logo screen prove that much. This one of those things that might change before launch. I can't see kicking everyone back to the stone age when Maschine and so many MPCs have a waveform display.
Old 26th February 2012
  #1235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blastbeat View Post
Yup.

Akai product manager Dan Gill: "it's not a fail if you're a 3000 user.

Actually, this was one of our biggest requests. MPC3000 users wanted the numbers. they want to be able to edit the old school way, and everyone agreed it was important to do it both ways. so we do numbers on the LCD, waveforms on the big screen."
Akai MPC Forums - MPC Ren @ sonicstate.com (NAMM 2012) : MPC Renaissance/Studio

Quite daft considering they're trying to compete with Maschine which can actually feel like using standalone hardware in use because it shows everything on the hardware's displays including the waveform which shows up on both the hardware LCD and the computer screen. It was bad enough they turned the "MPC" into a glorified MPD controller but this will just force you to have to stare at the computer screen.
The juiciest bit of info in that vid to me is:

"we've placed the same AD/DA converters of the 3000 in [Renaissance]"
"the [Renaissance] goes fully 12-bit ... and its not an emulation like a lot of people out there"


now if that is truly the case, i'll say i'm sold and i hated maschine and swore i'd never go the hybrid way again
Old 26th February 2012
  #1236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E-Maddox View Post
This one of those things that might change before launch. I can't see kicking everyone back to the stone age when Maschine and so many MPCs have a waveform display.
It would be total fail of them not to but it looks like it'll stay that way. There's a long ass thread at the MPC forums where people are up in arms about it:
Akai MPC Forums - Waveform view on the MPC controller screen : MPC Renaissance/Studio

Quote:
Originally Posted by xanax View Post
"the [Renaissance] goes fully 12-bit ... and its not an emulation like a lot of people out there"
LOL It's not 12bit and it is emulation. Don't know where you got that quote from but it looks like some folks are falling for Akai's sneaky marketing drivel.
Old 26th February 2012
  #1237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blastbeat View Post
LOL It's not 12bit and it is emulation. Don't know where you got that quote from but it looks like some folks are falling for Akai's sneaky marketing drivel.
straight from the horses mouth:

WNAMM12: Akai MPC Renaisance Closer Look, The workflow and features (Video) -Sonicstate.com

i was as skeptical as you are, and yes people on mpc forum are up and arms about the whole thing, but it really sounds like its the real deal unless akai is straight up lying..
Old 26th February 2012
  #1238
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The emulations are in software. The converters are 24 bit. The analog portions of the audio outputs are made with the same components as the 3k. One of the Reps simply misrepresented the facts.
Old 26th February 2012
  #1239
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i guess it isn't entirely false either as bit depth is a digital spec feature anyways, so assuming the algorithm is the same, it will hopefully sound similar (i do reserve judgement on this until i hear it for myself). more important in the signal chain is the converters though and i'm glad to hear that the hardware is spec'd on the 3k.

i still find retail price outrageous especially for a mpc product that can't be used standalone..
Old 26th February 2012
  #1240
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I've already pre-ordered, but by no means am I giving up my classic MPC's as the REN is not standalone.
Old 26th February 2012
  #1241
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^^ um i really don't understand what the big fuss is?? you have to use your computer anyways to work with renaissance, and you have a full sample editor / chopping curtosy of izotope none the least, i mean isn't that the whole point of this thing, being able to use your computer for things that aren't pleasant on hardware like sample editing and slicing?!!! besides some people do prefer the numbers way of chopping so this way you really got best of both worlds, sounds pretty smart to me..
Old 26th February 2012
  #1242
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I would prefer to play the numbers game.

Bring it on.
Old 26th February 2012
  #1243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gear Geek View Post
The emulations are in software. The converters are 24 bit. The analog portions of the audio outputs are made with the same components as the 3k. One of the Reps simply misrepresented the facts.
I never believed what that rep was saying either. Its NAMM and he is being questioned on the spot from some moron, who is asking detailed questions, that a NAMM rep would not be expected to know.
Old 26th February 2012
  #1244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xanax View Post
straight from the horses mouth:

WNAMM12: Akai MPC Renaisance Closer Look, The workflow and features (Video) -Sonicstate.com

I was as skeptical as you are, and yes people on mpc forum are up and arms about the whole thing, but it really sounds like its the real deal unless akai is straight up lying..
I don't think they have their message synchronized yet. The MPC3000 had (now ancient) 16bit converters from 1992. If the the Ren can operate at 24/96 the converter claim can't stand as true. This should have been thought through before making the statement..

A better approach would be to release written specs describing the signal path so you don't have conflicting statements on the board. Disclaim that the specs are preliminary and the mixed message problem is solved.

Quote:
I never believed what that rep was saying either. Its NAMM and he is being questioned on the spot from some moron, who is asking detailed questions, that a NAMM rep would not be expected to know.
If your going to rep a product you should know the product. Being unprepared at NAMM falls on the rep.That guy wasn't a moron he was informed customer/user if he asking detailed questions. If you don't know the answer just say that spec hasn't been finalized. JBL reps OTOH can discuss any aspect of their products with anyone that approaches.It's inexcusable IMO.
Old 26th February 2012
  #1245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xanax View Post
more important in the signal chain is the converters though and i'm glad to hear that the hardware is spec'd on the 3k.
The converters are typical 24bit/96khz converters. The emulation modes are software based. It's the outputs of the built-in soundcard that have the circuitry based on the 3k so this "same circuitry as the 3k" won't affect the sound at all when you bounce/export the tracks in the box. You would have to actually track out of the outputs and back into the soundcard in order to take advantage of the "3k circuitry".
Old 26th February 2012
  #1246
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yes franz you are definitely missing the whole point.. MPC Ren is a hybrid instrument, that means using the computer for certain things like waveform editing and slicing. that is the whole point of attaching a computer to it, but if you'd rather do this on a tiny black and white 2" screen with less than good precision and want to stay away from a computer, the solution is very simple: buy a MPC 1000 / 2000 / 2500 / 4000 / 5000 , but wouldnt that be the real step backwards?

About the old number way, you are basically working by ear.. some people prefer to work that way, i prefer waveform but i must admit that when working by ear on the SP-1200 my chops came out differently so yes to a certain extent that limitation boosted my creativity. regardless, with the MPC Ren, you can do both methods so i don't understand what you are complaining about, it just seems you are bent on pointlessly slamming akai without basic understanding of the products nature.. have you even ever used a MPC before? comparing it to battery is laughable as anybody knows the mpc's appeal is the integration of it's sampler and sequencer..

Quote:
Originally Posted by blastbeat View Post
The converters are typical 24bit/96khz converters. The emulation modes are software based. It's the outputs of the built-in soundcard that have the circuitry based on the 3k so this "same circuitry as the 3k" won't affect the sound at all when you bounce/export the tracks in the box. You would have to actually track out of the outputs and back into the soundcard in order to take advantage of the "3k circuitry".
so what you are saying to be precise is it's got 24bit/96khz AD converters, and 16-bit/44.1khz MPC3K DA converters?
that's interesting, but is the 3K sound only summed up to it's DA converters, perhaps but i would assume the AD converters of the 3K are part of the "magic" as well... plot thickens
Old 26th February 2012
  #1247
Registered User
 

Dude seemed like one of those Trekers, going up to Patrick Stewart asking about the physics of and specific engineering principles of the Starship Enterprise, is all im saying. There are questions to ask about an unreleased and unfinished product at NAMM. Playboy did not seem to get that this product was still under construction. Good thing for the rep, that it is unfinished. Akai can just say that they scrapped that idea.

With that said... it was the reps fault for trying to keep pace with this guy. He should have said that he would get back to him on that. Instead he appeared to try to "wing it" and now he has been caught out there. Im not trippin of him though. He made a mistake. Its not unforgivable, given the circumstances. Besides... if you couldnt see thought that BS from the gate... shame on you lol. I was like GTFOOHWTBS.. the moment he spat that frick and frack.

And now its time to pour out a little liquor for the waveform display on LCD.
"You will be missed by some, but not by all lil homie!!!"


Quote:
Originally Posted by E-Maddox View Post
I don't think they have their message synchronized yet. The MPC3000 had (now ancient) 16bit converters from 1992. If the the Ren can operate at 24/96 the converter claim can't stand as true. This should have been thought through before making the statement..

A better approach would be to release written specs describing the signal path so you don't have conflicting statements on the board. Disclaim that the specs are preliminary and the mixed message problem is solved.


If your going to rep a product you should know the product. Being unprepared at NAMM falls on the rep.That guy wasn't a moron he was informed customer/user if he asking detailed questions. If you don't know the answer just say that spec hasn't been finalized. JBL reps OTOH can discuss any aspect of their products with anyone that approaches.It's inexcusable IMO.
Old 26th February 2012
  #1248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xanax View Post
with the MPC Ren, you can do both methods so i don't understand what you are complaining about
The point you're missing is that Maschine allows you not to have to look at teh computer screen because it shows you pretty much everything on its hardware's LCD so that you can even turn off the computer screen if you want to. It gives you that option. The MPC Ren/Studio will force you to stare at the computer screen if you want to look at the waveform while chopping and editing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xanax View Post
so what you are saying to be precise is it's got 24bit/96khz AD converters, and 16-bit/44.1khz MPC3K DA converters?
No. The AD and DA converters are 24bit/96khz, period. Like I said the "3k circuitry" they're talking about is on the outputs of the built-in soundcard and so will have no effect on the sound other than just monitoring or like I said, unless you track the output back into the input of the sound. It's not like using the same type of output will make that much of a difference in sound anyway. That's why it's just a misleading marketing gimmick.
Old 27th February 2012
  #1249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blastbeat View Post
The point you're missing is that Maschine allows you not to have to look at teh computer screen because it shows you pretty much everything on its hardware's LCD so that you can even turn off the computer screen if you want to. It gives you that option. The MPC Ren/Studio will force you to stare at the computer screen if you want to look at the waveform while chopping and editing.
i'm familiar with maschine, i was even one of the first beta users of it lol.. all i'm saying is that waveform editing and slicing is one of the rare things i find better done on a computer using a mouse. it's actually the main feature that attracted me to using a hybrid instrument like maschine in the first place. chopping by ear however can yield interesting results sometimes so i think its actually nice that MPC Ren enables you to do both methods but to each his own i guess..

Quote:
Originally Posted by blastbeat View Post
No. The AD and DA converters are 24bit/96khz, period. Like I said the "3k circuitry" they're talking about is on the outputs of the built-in soundcard and so will have no effect on the sound other than just monitoring or like I said, unless you track the output back into the input of the sound. It's not like using the same type of output will make that much of a difference in sound anyway. That's why it's just a misleading marketing gimmick.
if it isn't the ADDA converters then wtf is this so called 3K circuitry on the outputs exactly??? what a bunch of hs...
Old 27th February 2012
  #1250
Hobbs_Won
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrides View Post
I never believed what that rep was saying either. Its NAMM and he is being questioned on the spot from some moron, who is asking detailed questions, that a NAMM rep would not be expected to know.
Dude the reps are hired by the respective manufacturer....You basically just said "How is AKAI supposed to know about their own product"

That is totally on AKAI.
Old 27th February 2012
  #1251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xanax View Post
i'm familiar with maschine, i was even one of the first beta users of it lol.. all i'm saying is that waveform editing and slicing is one of the rare things i find better done on a computer using a mouse. it's actually the main feature that attracted me to using a hybrid instrument like maschine in the first place. chopping by ear however can yield interesting results sometimes so i think its actually nice that MPC Ren enables you to do both methods but to each his own i guess..
Huh? The MPC Ren is the one lacking an option. You can chop by ear with Maschine. Saying that only showing numbers on the hardware somehow "enables" one to use the ear any more is silly.
Old 27th February 2012
  #1252
Registered User
 

Although I personally prefer waveform editing on the LCD (...just because), this really is a non-issue as you get practically a full screen view for sample editing and program on the software. Even if the MPC Ren did have waveform editing on the hardware, I wouldn’t use it 95%. The MV-8800 has external VGA monitor support. I actually disabled my MVs LCD as there was no need for it when I had a monitor.

Even with the lack of waveform display on the MPC Ren, from what I have seen, it clearly outclasses Maschine. Maschine allows you to use a huge LCD monitor but still requires you to toggle through numerous pages to do sound editing. The MPC Ren displays all program parameters on one screen. This is far from a workflow killer.

As I continue read this thread, there are way too many Maschine and MV users that hate just to hate. You guys/gals are steadily looking for any signs of weakness so you can pounce on them. The product hasn’t been released yet and some of you are talking about bugs, latency, and many other made up issues. If you don’t like what the MPC Ren has to offer, don’t buy it. Nobody really cares.
Old 27th February 2012
  #1253
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Word, I'm waiting for a full review until I get one. I feel I can get just as much out of an MPC 2000XL hooked up through midi though
Old 27th February 2012
  #1254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jahrome View Post
Even if the MPC Ren did have waveform editing on the hardware, I wouldn’t use it 95%.
Wouldn't expect any less predictable response from the biggest MPC fanboy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jahrome View Post
Even with the lack of waveform display on the MPC Ren, from what I have seen, it clearly outclasses Maschine.


Save the outclassing talk until it stops being an unfinished prototype vaporware.
Old 27th February 2012
  #1255
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
if it isn't the ADDA converters then wtf is this so called 3K circuitry on the outputs exactly??? what a bunch of hs...
The output of an audio interface has an analog signal path. The actual converter chip is only part of the output. The rest of the signal path on the 3k output is actually the part that give it the warmth and character. How it will actually sound is something you will have to wait and test for yourself. Same with the quality of the software emulations. Many DSP coders try to emulate classic hardware and most fail miserably. Only a few can even get close.

The lack of waveform on the controller is a drawback no matter what way you look at it. As someone stated, if it had the waveform you could still do it by ear so it makes no sense to look at this as an advantage. It will matter most if you want to make beats from the hardware 100% without using the monitor. The way the knob parameters are not above the knobs on the hardware and lack of waveform display will really hurt the hardware only wokflow. That being said, I usually use my monitor for editing on my Maschine so for me it's no deal breaker.
Old 27th February 2012
  #1256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gear Geek View Post
The output of an audio interface has an analog signal path. The actual converter chip is only part of the output. The rest of the signal path on the 3k output is actually the part that give it the warmth and character. How it will actually sound is something you will have to wait and test for yourself. Same with the quality of the software emulations. Many DSP coders try to emulate classic hardware and most fail miserably. Only a few can even get close.
i agree software emulations usually blow chunks, that is why i was excited about the hardware claims but now i'm skeptical even on that..

Quote:
Originally Posted by blastbeat View Post
Huh? The MPC Ren is the one lacking an option. You can chop by ear with Maschine. Saying that only showing numbers on the hardware somehow "enables" one to use the ear any more is silly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gear Geek View Post
The lack of waveform on the controller is a drawback no matter what way you look at it. As someone stated, if it had the waveform you could still do it by ear so it makes no sense to look at this as an advantage. It will matter most if you want to make beats from the hardware 100% without using the monitor. The way the knob parameters are not above the knobs on the hardware and lack of waveform display will really hurt the hardware only wokflow. That being said, I usually use my monitor for editing on my Maschine so for me it's no deal breaker.
it's a drawback for most people used to waveform editing, but not to people that still work on MPC 60/3000, to them its actually something they are familiar with, and since those 2 kits are essentially 25 year proven industry standards, i think it makes sense to offer this legacy way of working as an option. also as jahrome mentions, the Ren isn't even out yet, the fact that its integrated with a laptop will mean easy updates, so it's still very possible waveform editing will end up on the controller as well... hold your horses b4 jumping the gun peeps
Old 28th February 2012
  #1257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blastbeat View Post
Wouldn't expect any less predictable response from the biggest MPC fanboy.




Save the outclassing talk until it stops being an unfinished prototype vaporware.
From work to play....I am using either a dual screen monitor set-up or a single 30" monitor. Why on earth would I want to look at a 6" x 2" LCD screen? There is a reason why software samplers are the #1 choice today. Now I get a software sampler that has a dedicated controller so I don't have to mouse-click unless I want to.

I can say outclassed for two reasons.....I own Maschine....and I have seen the "vaporware".
Old 28th February 2012
  #1258
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Quote:
Why on earth would I want to look at a 6" x 2" LCD screen?
It's a workflow vibe.
Old 29th February 2012
  #1259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by godphaser View Post
It's a workflow vibe.
Unfortunately, you will have to look for a product that has a better "workflow vibe" for you. Nothing wrong with that.
Old 29th February 2012
  #1260
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It would have made more sense to stay competitive with Maschine. It's interesting that omissions are being presented as features. This really kills off the hardware vibe for everybody but 3000 users. I'm guessing that 2000/xl , 1kthru 5k users are going to be heard being that they far outnumber 3K users alone. The more the controller is removed from the equation the less appeal it has IMO.
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