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Maschine SP1200 Emulation VS Real SP1200
Old 26th November 2011
  #1
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ForWerd's Avatar
 

Maschine SP1200 Emulation VS Real SP1200

This was actually very close. I took the acoustic kit "studio B" snare and kick from Maschine library. In Maschine I did an internal sample with it pitched up 7 semi tones, I then turned on SP1200 mode and dropped it 7 semitones. I used the same snare and kick and same method on the SP1200. The pattern goes:

Maschine - Snare, Snare.......Kick, Kick


Maschine SP1200 Mode - Snare, Snare.......Kick, Kick


SP1200 - Snare, Snare.....Kick, Kick

I mean, WOW. Before I had tried out the SP1200 mode and wrote it off because I didn't pitch anything down. Pitching stuff down while in SP1200 mode makes all the difference. And sure there is a difference between the emulation and the real thing, but it is so much closer than I thought. Nice job NI.
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Maschine SP1200 mode vs Real SP1200.wav (2.87 MB, 11299 views)

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Old 26th November 2011
  #2
Gear Head
 

sp sounds fuller in sound to me....the maschine does a good impression but it aint as good as the real deeel
Old 26th November 2011
  #3
Gear Maniac
 
eldorado_p's Avatar
 

Yeah pitching up, resampling, then pitching down really helps the emulation. What filter setting did you use for the sp emulation?
Old 26th November 2011
  #4
Lives for gear
 
ForWerd's Avatar
 

I used "none" on Maschine. On the SP1200 I used output 7, which isn't filtered.
Old 30th November 2011
  #5
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ForWerd's Avatar
 

I posted this same info on a certain SP1200 forum and the whole thread was deleted. I guess it was a little too close for the die hards. I, however find it to be an interesting topic since the SP has such a status among the Hip Hop community and are going for such high prices. I'm curious if anyone has done a comparison like this with the S-950. I don't own one or else I would have done it already.

To me the SP1200 is a tool among others that I use. To some the SP1200 is the only "real" way to make "real" hip-hop. Man even guys like Pete Rock, who pioneered with the SP1200, moved on to newer equipment eventually. Here's an article supporting that statement. In the end it is a fantastic piece of equipment and very fun to use. But some folks take this stuff way too personal.
Old 30th November 2011
  #6
Gear Addict
 

Man I love that grit/crush/fuzzy sound of the real SP1200 sounds. How can one achieve that with software? Logic's Bitcrusher doesn't seem to do it right. Unless my settings are wrong.

@OP: Can you explain how I can achieve an SP1200 sound with Battery? Or what your process was?
Old 30th November 2011
  #7
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ForWerd's Avatar
 

I've never used Battery. Although I have seen a Battery vs SP1200 thread here on gearslutz.

I'm only using the SP1200 emulation mode that comes with Maschine no plugins, filters or effects. I sampled in Maschine 7 semi-tones up, took that sample an turned on SP1200 mode, then dropped it back down 7 semi tones. That's all.
Old 30th November 2011
  #8
Gear Addict
 

What does the pitching up and down part do for you?
Old 30th November 2011
  #9
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ForWerd's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by UCTION View Post
What does the pitching up and down part do for you?
Speeding up records is how the originators would get "more" sample time into the SP1200. Once in the SP they would pitch it back down to the original speed/pitch. The pitching down in the SP is what gives the dirt and introduces those artifacts that give you the "grit/crush/fuzzy sound" you were describing. Without pitching down the SP is actually fairly clean sounding.

So I did the same thing on Maschine: sped up the sample, sampled it, turned on SP1200 mode then pitched it back down. It's the same with the Maschine emulation, if you don't pitch it down you hardly notice any difference. Especially in short percussive sounds. Also, if you turn off SP1200 mode it just sounds like a simple sample in 16 tune mode, very clean.
Old 1st December 2011
  #10
Gear Addict
 

Oh I understand now!

Just to clarify things, not only do you turn up the pitch 7 semitones, but you also increase the tempo right? And repeat oppositely after applying the SP1200 mode?
Old 1st December 2011
  #11
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Pitching up and speeding up go hand in hand. Unless your dealing with some kind of time stretching. When you play a sample across keys or use 16 tunings on a pad style sampler all the sampler is doing to play the different semitones is speeding the sample up for higher notes or slowing it down for lower notes.
Old 1st December 2011
  #12
Gear Addict
 

Good way to think about it, thanks.
Old 19th January 2012
  #13
Gear Maniac
 
vintagefreak's Avatar
 

great test

But most ppl don't sample drums pitched up as they are one shot samples,
usually everyone samples loops and melodic samples at 45rpm + 8% pitch on turntables
to squeeze into 10sec sampling time ( 2,50 x 4 ) on SP.

Could you please make another test with melodic samples and/or loops
sampling straight from vinyl at 45rpm than repitched down to the original key?
also trying to give an impression how Maschine SP mode sounds when pitching one semitone down at a time versus SP1200 that gives a very different sounding artifacts on each semitone when pitching up or down?

that would be a super cool and more objective comparison test

thanks in advance
Old 19th January 2012
  #14
I think that real SP1200 wins( i am not the user of this thing).
Both-kick and snare has one very important aspect-WEIGHT!!!
Emulation sounds like a paper in comparison.
Just my thoughts...
Thank You for objective test!
Old 6th February 2012
  #15
Gear Maniac
 
Sampler Man's Avatar
RawSP1200 by Mac McGill on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

If you like the sound of the SP1200 you can check out the link above. A few months ago I did a very quick dump of misc beats, loops and sounds into Protools. Its nothing special but it does give you a good idea of the sound of this machine if you don't know it. Everything is recorded from records and no sample CD's were used. It is 15 minutes long so I don't blame you if you can't get through it all.

Mac
Old 6th February 2012
  #16
Lives for gear
Is it really the SP1200?? Sounds a bit strange to my ears.

peace
Old 6th February 2012
  #17
Gear Maniac
 
Sampler Man's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by peterpiper0815 View Post
Is it really the SP1200?? Sounds a bit strange to my ears.

peace
Yes it is. There is some crappy Protools reverb on it and I used the plug in that looks like Urei 1176 to even it out a bit. It is not a direct dry recording but it is all from a true SP1200. If your a user I'll trade you a disk if you'd like.
Old 7th February 2012
  #18
Gear Maniac
 
vintagefreak's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sampler Man View Post
RawSP1200 by Mac McGill on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

If you like the sound of the SP1200 you can check out the link above. A few months ago I did a very quick dump of misc beats, loops and sounds into Protools. Its nothing special but it does give you a good idea of the sound of this machine if you don't know it. Everything is recorded from records and no sample CD's were used. It is 15 minutes long so I don't blame you if you can't get through it all.

Mac
Sounds like SP - diggin' it , its very lo-fi sound due to pitching up n down , its got that spécial Mojo vibe that software lucks. but its def not for everybody - you gotta love it or leave it!
Old 7th February 2012
  #19
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagefreak View Post
Sounds like SP - diggin' it , its very lo-fi sound due to pitching up n down , its got that spécial Mojo vibe that software lucks. but its def not for everybody - you gotta love it or leave it!
I love the SP sound. Thats why I'm kind of confused cause it sound lofi but... I don't know a bit too lofi...


peace
Old 7th February 2012
  #20
Gear Maniac
 
vintagefreak's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by peterpiper0815 View Post
I love the SP sound. Thats why I'm kind of confused cause it sound lofi but... I don't know a bit too lofi...


peace
the LO-Fi - Hi-Fi ratio of SP all depends on how you sample in and if you re-pitch the sample aftewords:
if you sample a break or a single shot sounds in their original pitch and just playback them straight - SP sounds quite different , i bet you wouldn't even hear that its an SP - very HI-FY and punchy.
But if you sample vinyl at 45rpm +8 pitched up and than pitch it down on SP to squeeze maximum samples into the 10 seconds sampling time -

than you going to hear lots of artifacts and ringing ... that is more easy to hear as a so called "SP" sound.

to get an idea of a "clean" sounding SP versus repitched check my Samplers sound comparison test

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znqxqPMizlM
Old 7th February 2012
  #21
Gear Maniac
 
Sampler Man's Avatar
I think the reason your so confused is that if you don't own an SP1200 you never hear it this way. Straight from the box. On records that use this machine every output is sent to a different channel on the mixer and it's EQed, gated,compressed and reverb added ect. When you record from the main mix output as I did it's mushed together and dirty. It can get lot cleaner just by isolating the parts and EQing them. Adding reverb on loops and instruments really helps smooth it out.
Old 7th February 2012
  #22
Gear Maniac
 
Sampler Man's Avatar
Good points from vintagefreak. I do tend to lean towards the dirtier side of things. How do you think I found this sight? I wasn't looking for a gear forum.
Old 7th February 2012
  #23
Gear Maniac
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sampler Man View Post
Good points from vintagefreak. I do tend to lean towards the dirtier side of things. How do you think I found this sight? I wasn't looking for a gear forum.
same here
Old 7th February 2012
  #24
Gear Nut
 

Iam really tired of software and emulations.
Old 29th July 2012
  #25
Lives for gear
I just listened to this clip.

I don't want to be busting on anyone's ears or taste, and I like the Maschine. But that emulation completely fails to capture what makes the sp1200 special. Just listen to the difference in the kicks. If you can't hear that difference then spend more time working at production till you can hear those differences. I am blown away that anyone would think this is somehow 'good enough' at capturing what is good about the emu.

The point isn't that it's lofi, it's that it sounds good (and happens to be lofi). That Maschine sp1200 mode kick sounds so bad. No roundness, no woody tone

I like Maschine, but it's strengths are not emulating old hardware.
Old 29th July 2012
  #26
Hobbs_Won
Guest
What the hell is "roundness" or "woody tone"
Old 29th July 2012
  #27
Gear Nut
 

No one will notice anyways. If your beats knock, no one will know or care too much whether or not you used the real deal or a vst.

I copped the sp1200 to experience the work flow. There are so many tools these days to mold sounds any way you want. That's the last thing I worry about.
Old 30th July 2012
  #29
Gear Nut
 
Hermit_Crab's Avatar
 

I love my SP. So much fun to use. It's like playing a video game.
Old 30th July 2012
  #30
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobbs_Won View Post
What the hell is "roundness" or "woody tone"
figurative descriptions of what's lacking in the emulated versions tone. People have been using these terms to describe sound at least since the 1960s. listen to the samples and think about the differences, maybe it'll make sense.

Of course if whatever you make sounds good, then it doesn't matter what one uses. However, to these ears, the emulation does not sound good. (maschine without emulation sounds fine in a no character way, at least at root note).
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