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MPC's a thing of the past? Drum Machines & Samplers
Old 20th September 2011
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhonoquO View Post
I'm seriously starting to think all the people who take the time to start threads and participate in bashing mpcs and acting like missionaries for maschine are either paid, or are trying to justify to themselves that they didn't make the biggest mistake by hastily selling their mpcs based on a few fanboy rants.

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*Oh Snap!*

I saw someone use the term 'infinite upgrade spiral' recently.
I think that calling MPC's 'outdated' is kind of scary.
It seems to denote the death of music itself, harkening an age where music comes second to what's making it (and how hi-def that **** is).
I will be in the corner, playing outdated melodies on my 1911 Gibson mandolin, that--aside from some fret buzz--is the best instrument I own.
Old 20th September 2011
  #62
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KevWest's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LimpyLoo View Post
people take to it. i agree about zip discs and the like (I have an sp-808 that takes 'em) being hard as hell to find (I grabbed 20 when i randomly found some). But I don't think convenience is the end goal. if so, i don't think people would bother with consoles or reel-to-reel or learning fm synthesis or maintaining a rare stringed instrument.

and i'm not praising the inconvenience of obsolete technology, i'm just saying not everything needs to be improved upon.
In an ideal world I'd agree with you but how many are going through the extra effort to do those things? Most just want to load sounds and press keys. To them knowing a synth is knowing where to find what preset. I think most people doing these things are the ones who have been for years.
Old 20th September 2011
  #63
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KevWest's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhonoquO View Post
Good instruments don't become obsolete, whereas computers and software quickly become obsolete as we all know, example: what happened to NI Kore? People who bought it for $ 500 are being abandoned whereas that old mpc keeps doing its thing like nothing happened and will continue to do so without relying on a computer for sampling and sequencing. You don't need elaborate technical features to make a hit. How many hits have you heard in the last 20 years that consisted of nothing more than basic drums, kick, snare hat clap, a dope melody and vocal? I've heard ****loads. Again, no new or old instrument is going to guarantee you write a good song. I'm seriously starting to think all the people who take the time to start threads and participate in bashing mpcs and acting like missionaries for maschine are either paid, or are trying to justify to themselves that they didn't make the biggest mistake by hastily selling their mpcs based on a few fanboy rants.

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I don't think anyone is saying you can't make songs on this stuff including hits. I've just been saying they are old and their technology is old and have been surpassed by other tools. I don't see software instruments as much different than hardware either. Both are just different kinds of instruments.
Old 20th September 2011
  #64
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KevWest's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jahrome View Post
I didn't take anything out of context. You implied the MPCs have been surpassed by most software tools and metioned Maschine in the same post. Well...software like Maschine has not surpassed the MPC 4000 or 5000 as a sampler. Maschine's sampler is significantly underpowered compared to these two MPCs. The fact is, Maschine as a sampler is among the worst software samplers available today even among Native Instrument products. What good is a "cheap" controller "intune" with limited software?

As far as MIDI sequencing, the MPC 4000 and 5000 has plenty under the hood...much more capable than Maschine and stacks up well against software MIDI sequencers. You can throw in the MV-8800 as well.

IMO, software samplers are only good for playing back sample libraries. I would much rather edit samples on an MPC despite. I am scratching my head about your comments indicating software is better when you admit you have no idea what these hardware samplers can do....

Today we have all this technology to create music...but the music being created with this technology is really bad (bad meaning bad, not bad meaning good). Maybe folks need to break out their MPCs, ASRs and ADAT recorders.....because this is what people are doing with all this technology: MUSIC : Soulja Boy
Again out of context. You are going on about how the mpc 4k and 5k are better than Maschine and disregarding all other software samplers. If you dislike software samplers that's fine but the only thing I said about Maschine is that the MPD series should have originally been made in the same vain. I don't know where this other **** you are spewing is coming from. I don't think Maschine is even a great sampler. Its a good tool sure but honestly I'd probably take an mpc over it. And I know plenty about hardware I own some myself actually including a mpc.
Old 20th September 2011
  #65
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F Major's Avatar
 

MPCs...No longer current? yes....No longer useful? very subjective and depends on the person. We're talking about sampler/sequencers here, put new sounds in it and record new music, its really that simple.
Old 20th September 2011
  #66
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Looks Like It's Time 4 a Beat Battle!

MPCs vs Maschine/Software
Old 20th September 2011
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWest View Post
Again out of context. You are going on about how the mpc 4k and 5k are better than Maschine and disregarding all other software samplers. If you dislike software samplers that's fine but the only thing I said about Maschine is that the MPD series should have originally been made in the same vain. I don't know where this other **** you are spewing is coming from. I don't think Maschine is even a great sampler. Its a good tool sure but honestly I'd probably take an mpc over it. And I know plenty about hardware I own some myself actually including a mpc.
Tone it down..its not that deep. lol The MPD 32 is a more robust controller. Maschine's controller should have been made in the same "vain" IMHO.

I am not disregarding anything. I am talking about MPC and Maschine as it is relevant to the conversation. Nobody buys an MPC just because it is a sampler..only the two MPCs mentioned are actually full blown samplers. I own several software samplers. They have their place...primarily as sample library playback engines. Certainly not used in the context of this thread as a workstation of sorts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by F Major View Post
MPCs...No longer current? yes....No longer useful? very subjective and depends on the person. We're talking about sampler/sequencers here, put new sounds in it and record new music, its really that simple.

Staying on topic...an MPC is current. And there will always be threads like these....I guess. lol Maschine was never really useful for my needs as it really didn't add much to my setup...(not a very good sampler nor a very good MIDI sequencer). So I am back on the sideline waiting for a Version 2.

By the way...has NI finally added the ability for users to create drum kits with the onboard sound and user sounds and save these kits? This is one of the biggest holes in this product as MPCs could do this 20 years ago. When I got rid of Maschine, this wasn't possible as you could only save a drum kit with a project and not individually.
Old 20th September 2011
  #68
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Chazban's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jahrome View Post


Staying on topic...an MPC is current. And there will always be threads like these....I guess. lol Maschine was never really useful for my needs as it really didn't add much to my setup...(not a very good sampler nor a very good MIDI sequencer). So I am back on the sideline waiting for a Version 2.
.
Being a first time buyer of a hardware sampler will this make much difference? I won't be longing for the mpc sound if i've never owned one...

But in all honesty could people tell me whether in investing in maschine i'm going to be using some cheap piece of plastic that will do everything a DAW and a keyboard will do and will be discounted a short while after buying it. Or if it is actually a decent first time sampler?

Also how are the MPC's when integrated with DAWs? will it just be used as a controller? can it plug in to logics Ultrabeat the same way it does Battery?
Old 20th September 2011
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chazban View Post
Being a first time buyer of a hardware sampler will this make much difference? I won't be longing for the mpc sound if i've never owned one...

But in all honesty could people tell me whether in investing in maschine i'm going to be using some cheap piece of plastic that will do everything a DAW and a keyboard will do and will be discounted a short while after buying it. Or if it is actually a decent first time sampler?

Also how are the MPC's when integrated with DAWs? will it just be used as a controller? can it plug in to logics Ultrabeat the same way it does Battery?
If you are buying a product to create music, the last thing you should think about is resale value. The value lies in what you are doing with the product.

Any leading DAW and a keyboard can do much more than Maschine. However, since Maschine's control controller is specifically designed for its software, it offers a level of hands on control that you don't get with a DAW and generic controller. Maschine is a decent sampler and will fulfil basic sampling needs. If you need something more powerful, add a 3rd party plugin sampler to use within Maschine.

MPCs are integrated with DAWs via your sound card as AUDIO and MIDI. Newer MPCs like the MPC 5000 and 1000/2500 running the JJ OS (or MPD controller) have MIDI CC capabilities for controlling aspects of the software. The extent of this is based upon the capabilities of your DAW. You can use your DAW as a VST host and record MIDI tracks directly from the MPC. In turn, you can record your VST instruments within your DAW with the audio never leaving your computer.
Old 20th September 2011
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chazban View Post
Being a first time buyer of a hardware sampler will this make much difference? I won't be longing for the mpc sound if i've never owned one...

But in all honesty could people tell me whether in investing in maschine i'm going to be using some cheap piece of plastic that will do everything a DAW and a keyboard will do and will be discounted a short while after buying it. Or if it is actually a decent first time sampler?

Also how are the MPC's when integrated with DAWs? will it just be used as a controller? can it plug in to logics Ultrabeat the same way it does Battery?
MPC s are designed to be the center of whole studio s(choose your model) so it should be able to control and trigger ultra beat ect.Theres whole sections on running logic over at the mpc forums!!!!
Old 20th September 2011
  #71
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KevWest's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by F Major View Post
MPCs...No longer current? yes....No longer useful? very subjective and depends on the person. We're talking about sampler/sequencers here, put new sounds in it and record new music, its really that simple.
exactly I couldn't agree more.
Old 20th September 2011
  #72
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KevWest's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jahrome View Post
Tone it down..its not that deep. lol The MPD 32 is a more robust controller. Maschine's controller should have been made in the same "vain" IMHO.

I am not disregarding anything. I am talking about MPC and Maschine as it is relevant to the conversation. Nobody buys an MPC just because it is a sampler..only the two MPCs mentioned are actually full blown samplers. I own several software samplers. They have their place...primarily as sample library playback engines. Certainly not used in the context of this thread as a workstation of sorts.
Tone what down? You made it into something its not and are now getting offended when I reply back? GTFOH with all that. The topic is not about Maschine its about Mpcs and if they are a thing of the past or no. I say they are and I know quite a few people who buy mpcs for all kinds of reasons. I bought mine to use as a sequencer for my EPS and I wanted a way to switching between drum sounds more quickly than my EPS could do stand alone. And you keep bringing up points to me that are totally out of context of what I said and disregarded everything else I said except that I said Maschine and that software samplers are IMO (since i am not sure that is obvious enough here) are better than hardware samplers. I still like hardware samplers it just is what it is.
Old 20th September 2011
  #73
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chazban View Post
Also how are the MPC's when integrated with DAWs? will it just be used as a controller? can it plug in to logics Ultrabeat the same way it does Battery?
If you're wanting integration with Logic, Maschine is IT. And it makes for a far more hands-on and instrument-like controller for Ultrabeat or Battery than any MPC or MPD because you can see the names and values of what the buttons and the knobs are controlling directly on Maschine hardware's LCD displays.

Old 20th September 2011
  #74
Lives for gear
dont worry if the mp is a thing of the past u use whatever fits u and what u like, i went from a 1k to a maschine and im happier cos i can work faster and use vst's more readily. but that being said i wont rule out copping a 3000 or a 60 in the future cos of the vibe of the unit and the tone/sound it imparts to the material u work with.

yes u can achieve similar results with other setups but the units mentioned put u in that zone right away and thats the magic of it.
Old 20th September 2011
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWest View Post
Tone what down? You made it into something its not and are now getting offended when I reply back? GTFOH with all that. The topic is not about Maschine its about Mpcs and if they are a thing of the past or no. I say they are and I know quite a few people who buy mpcs for all kinds of reasons. I bought mine to use as a sequencer for my EPS and I wanted a way to switching between drum sounds more quickly than my EPS could do stand alone. And you keep bringing up points to me that are totally out of context of what I said and disregarded everything else I said except that I said Maschine and that software samplers are IMO (since i am not sure that is obvious enough here) are better than hardware samplers. I still like hardware samplers it just is what it is.
Not at all..hence the smiling face...as I can tell you are getting vexed regarding this subject. lol

I am fully aware what the topic of the thread is about. Maschine always pops up in this thread...and I wasn't the first person to bring it up. In fact, your brought it up before I did. So GGTTFFOOHH what ever that means. lol

I disagree with you (as I have in previous Maschine threads) that an MPC is not a thing of the past. You admitted having very little knowledge of the highend MPCs. If you brushed up on them, you would know that the latest version has a host of knobs and sliders that can be used to control your software. And since the 80s, when you use a MIDI sequencer, you can change sounds on the fly. So if you have...lets say Pro Tools (loaded with anyone one of the numerous plugin instruments) and an MPC "joined at the hip"...you can quickly audition new sounds in realtime as your MPC plays back the sequence. But we discussed this in another thread.....

To wrap this up...its a silly debate. MPCs are a thing of the past, present, and future.
Old 20th September 2011
  #76
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PhonoquO's Avatar
 

Based on what you've said, either go with a used 2000xl or 1000 with jjos2xl, depending on wether you value sound and build quality or functionality and speed. U can use them to sequence vsti or hardware beautifully or use them standalone which is a lot of fun. If you're leaning more towards a fully integrated computer solution, buy komplete 8 and download Reaper daw for free. The samplers in komplete are considerably more powerful than maschine sampler. Battery 3 is a beast! You don't need 4x4 pads to make a beat, if u already have a keyboard use that.

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Old 20th September 2011
  #77
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chazban View Post
I've been looking into buying a controller as i'm tired of clicking and scissoring and i want to get a real human feel to my tracks.

I've been told the MPC 1000jjos is gona give the best go for what i'm looking to achieve but i've heard complaints of laggy connections to computers, long loading times and fiddling around with old memory cards and floppy disks. Basically that the MPC is heavily outdated.
Based on what you said there, it definitely sounds like Maschine is what you're looking for. If you want to avoid "laggy connections to computers, long loading times and fiddling around with old memory cards and floppy disks" then forget MPCs. If you're "tired of clicking and scissoring and i want to get a real human feel to my tracks" then forget about only using a DAW to make music.

Maschine is truly the best of both worlds and there is nothing out there, hardware or software, that is faster at sampling and chopping than Maschine, period.



"I think Maschine is a really great tool for producers who want to throw their MPCs in the garbage." - Flying Lotus
Old 20th September 2011
  #78
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Nahuel's Avatar
 

reaper for free? what a terrible advice...
Old 20th September 2011
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nahuel View Post
reaper for free? what a terrible advice...
which part is terrible?
just curious to hear people's opinions fully articulated.
Old 20th September 2011
  #80
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PhonoquO's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nahuel View Post
reaper for free? what a terrible advice...
If you aren't using it commercially, there is no obligation to pay for it, although it is very cheap and the developer should be compensated for his hard work. At least he could try before buy without any limitations to the software.

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Old 21st September 2011
  #81
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I love my MPC. Its not going anywhere anytime soon!
Old 21st September 2011
  #82
Here for the gear
Something like the MPC is greater than the sum of its parts.

Its not going anywhere... while modern DAWs such as live can compete ...they are missing the magic of the MPC series.
Old 21st September 2011
  #83
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3rd Degree's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by oneano View Post
Something like the MPC is greater than the sum of its parts.

Its not going anywhere... while modern DAWs such as live can compete ...they are missing the magic of the MPC series.
I agree and disagree. I think everything has it's own magic. I honestly am so used to Reason that I now feel I can use it's swing, for example, better than any other hardware or software. Is it because it's better, no, it's because I know it so well.

That said, there is a reason why I keep my MPC. I say my MPC because it isn't going anywhere. It has it's own magic. One thing I have learned, it tends to loose it's magic (for me) when you start to use it with a computer. If I chop on my MPC or ASR 10, sequenced through my MPC, I get a different sound, feel, vibe, etc. Is it better, that's subjective.

I actually am thinking about using my MPC more. Not because I feel I can make better beats on it, I can take on a whole new style with minimal work. Going from 50-90 chops down to 4-8 chops really makes a different sound. I have clients that drool over my old stuff that I don't like all that much and disregard my new stuff that I feel is at my prime.

I do feel like people underrate how powerful an MPC is when it comes to sequencing a bunch of different devices, programs, etc, at the same time if you want a really flexible "brain" for controlling equipment that otherwise doesn't play well with each other.


But again, I will go back to the piano analogy. If you are playing the piano and that is all you need, newer technology is not going to be a concern.



Last point....Never justify your gear. It's extremely pointless. Justify your music. As a producer, if one person sampled a song and another person played every single instrument on their own, and they sounded equal, I would respect the person who can play 7 instruments more. Would I play their song more, nope. So think about the average fan.
Old 21st September 2011
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by talontsiawd View Post
I agree and disagree. I think everything has it's own magic. I honestly am so used to Reason that I now feel I can use it's swing, for example, better than any other hardware or software. Is it because it's better, no, it's because I know it so well.
Yeah. Some cats are out there killing it with an sk-1. Hell, Pierre Henry was killing it with nothing but a squeeky door. Here are people dancing to his "Variations for a Door and a Sigh":
(this is my opinion as I like Musique Concrete and also find it a useful reference tool as essentially it was the birth of sampling. YMMV)
Old 21st September 2011
  #85
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No way. Nothing goes out of style. It's all about how you use the equipment.
Old 21st September 2011
  #86
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Reggmail's Avatar
 


Come on now with this.

Machine, MPC , it's subjective and using what works best for you is what matters.
It's all about your work flo - ether one will not guarantee you a hit, there is many other veritables involved.

With that being said, Machine - MPC with-JJ OS, your favorite DAW, Battery, Kontakt, Wave sounds triggered will always be current depending on your current samples you load.

( We all know that what's considered old in this business usually becomes new again.)


For me, there's nothing like MPC timing, using my MPC with or without midi to a computer gives me no need for Machine at this time, and I still have the (Best of both worlds).
I have an MPC with an additional $500 in my pocket...Lol.
& blessings.
Old 21st September 2011
  #87
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Nahuel's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhonoquO View Post
If you aren't using it commercially, there is no obligation to pay for it, although it is very cheap and the developer should be compensated for his hard work. At least he could try before buy without any limitations to the software.

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yes there is a limitation, it's something about the bounce function I dont remember exactly what it is, I just know it's annoying and yes you have to pay for it if you want to use it even for non commercial use.

And your advice was to replace an mpc by reaper (for free) with komlplete... there's a least half a dozen more efficient options in ITB for beatmaking without trying to cheat on some smaller software compagny.
Old 21st September 2011
  #88
Here for the gear
Maschine versus mpc

As a Recording Studio Owner/ Engineer/ Artist / Gold Record Producer It's All About what's comfortable for you. I can say after using an MPC 3000 for Ten Years and every Keyboard Sampler and Beat Machine from Roland w30's, Asr10's, EPS16's, sp12's, sp1200's, MPC 2000xl, MPC 1000, Triton, Akai S1000 KB, Akai S950, S1000 Rack mounts, etc. I would never go back, Why?? I use Maschine now because it offers a workflow like No Other and gives me more sounds in 24 bit 44k / 48k that I couldn't and wouldn't want on those other dirty converters. I have a ULN8 Metric Halo and my Maschine with the New 1.7 update allows me to open any plugin out of my Waves, Softubes, TC Powercore, UAD or Whatever Arsenal of Plugs you have and do anything to a sound. Want it dirty like an MPC, No Problem. Do that on any of those old units. It speeds up just about any function I can name on any of those other outdated units. Ya I could use an MPC with lower quality converters but for what. I would rather have my spectrum of sound big and huge to start. A wave sound is a wave sound until you manipulate it to the way you like it. It's funny how people talk about getting that gritty sound like the old units. We had that sound because that was where technology was. We have options today that you can either take advantage of or ignore. I don't know about you guys but a Maschine with a good a/d converter offers much more flexibility and better sound quality. I make beats now with all my plugs in maschine and send it in directly to my DAW of choice ready to go sounding Big and Full. I even have my old MPC 3000 library of kiks and snars and sounds that I don't use because when I compare them to my New 24 bit Library It's Nite and Day... But Who Am I......
Old 21st September 2011
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAPITAL View Post
As a Recording Studio Owner/ Engineer/ Artist / Gold Record Producer It's All About what's comfortable for you. I can say after using an MPC 3000 for Ten Years and every Keyboard Sampler and Beat Machine from Roland w30's, Asr10's, EPS16's, sp12's, sp1200's, MPC 2000xl, MPC 1000, Triton, Akai S1000 KB, Akai S950, S1000 Rack mounts, etc. I would never go back, Why?? I use Maschine now because it offers a workflow like No Other and gives me more sounds in 24 bit 44k / 48k that I couldn't and wouldn't want on those other dirty converters. I have a ULN8 Metric Halo and my Maschine with the New 1.7 update allows me to open any plugin out of my Waves, Softubes, TC Powercore, UAD or Whatever Arsenal of Plugs you have and do anything to a sound. Want it dirty like an MPC, No Problem. Do that on any of those old units. It speeds up just about any function I can name on any of those other outdated units. Ya I could use an MPC with lower quality converters but for what. I would rather have my spectrum of sound big and huge to start. A wave sound is a wave sound until you manipulate it to the way you like it. It's funny how people talk about getting that gritty sound like the old units. We had that sound because that was where technology was. We have options today that you can either take advantage of or ignore. I don't know about you guys but a Maschine with a good a/d converter offers much more flexibility and better sound quality. I make beats now with all my plugs in maschine and send it in directly to my DAW of choice ready to go sounding Big and Full. I even have my old MPC 3000 library of kiks and snars and sounds that I don't use because when I compare them to my New 24 bit Library It's Nite and Day... But Who Am I......
Fair enough. Points for being thoughtful, thorough and articulate, too (which is rare-ish on GS and therefor greatly appreciated).

I guess what I'm saying is if I heard beats on the radio and they sounded like they were made on, say, an sp-303 (e.g. mono w/ vinyl sim heh) I would be very excited. Maybe it's a fetish.

I make dirty beats, myself. Maybe I could do it on a Maschine, I dunno. And maybe I have a knee-jerk reaction where I just categorically dismiss soft samplers, etc as being 'lame' in this or that way. Hard to say from where I'm sitting.

One thing I am certain of--and this has being voiced in this thread multiple times--is that every single piece of gear offers something in the way of style. Not to keep bringing up SP's but I work completely different on my sp-808 than I do on my sp-303. And this is the case with all of my comparable gear.

This, I think, is a good thing.
Old 21st September 2011
  #90
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godphaser's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhonoquO View Post
If you aren't using it commercially, there is no obligation to pay for it, although it is very cheap and the developer should be compensated for his hard work. At least he could try before buy without any limitations to the software.
Look at what the website says:

$225: full commercial license.
$60: discounted license.

You may use the discounted license if any of the following is true:

You are an individual, using REAPER only for personal use.
You are an individual or business, using REAPER for commercial use, and the yearly gross revenue does not exceed USD $20,000.
You are an educational or non-profit organization.
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