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MPC's a thing of the past? Drum Machines & Samplers
Old 19th September 2011
  #31
Gear Head
 
Chazban's Avatar
one last thing. Is it true maschine doesn't have groove quantize or templates? and it's only 50% quantize? If so what is the point in using it in beatmaking if you're just gona be importing it and quantizing on the DAW?
Old 19th September 2011
  #32
Gear Head
 

Machine's controller (that's what it is) feel so WACK!!!!
Old 19th September 2011
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorenzo Burton View Post
Machine's controller (that's what it is) feel so WACK!!!!

nice pads = more important than one might expect
Old 19th September 2011
  #34
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chazban View Post
one last thing. Is it true maschine doesn't have groove quantize or templates? and it's only 50% quantize? If so what is the point in using it in beatmaking if you're just gona be importing it and quantizing on the DAW?
No it's not "only 50% quantize".
Old 19th September 2011
  #35
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KevWest's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LimpyLoo View Post
bleh to 'outdated'
why is it bleh? the technology for any mpc has been by far surpassed by most software tools. I would love to see an updated mpc that was similar to what maschine is. They should have done this 10 years ago when people started using DAWs more and more and now are losing major money to Maschine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chazban View Post
one last thing. Is it true maschine doesn't have groove quantize or templates? and it's only 50% quantize? If so what is the point in using it in beatmaking if you're just gona be importing it and quantizing on the DAW?
A lot of people use Maschine as a plug in in their DAW. It was originally meant to be a plug in I believe.
Old 19th September 2011
  #36
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the technology for any mpc has been by far surpassed by most software tools. I would love to see an updated mpc that was similar to what maschine is. They should have done this 10 years ago when people started using DAWs more and more and now are losing major money to Maschine.
[/QUOTE]

yeah, and they should 'update' the sp1200 so it's 24bit.
Old 19th September 2011
  #37
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MPC's a thing of the past?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LimpyLoo
the technology for any mpc has been by far surpassed by most software tools. I would love to see an updated mpc that was similar to what maschine is. They should have done this 10 years ago when people started using DAWs more and more and now are losing major money to Maschine.
yeah, and they should 'update' the sp1200 so it's 24bit. [/QUOTE]
Way to miss the point! I'm sure if they made an sp1200 w a 2gig capacity you'd be all over it... Upgrade implies making something better (isnt always how it turns out...) To assume that's what kevwest was saying, upgrade an sp1200 to 24bit, that's on you!

Though thinking about it, that would be awesome. If they went 24bit, bit still had the original 12bit engine as an option too. Then give it a VGA and USB port with the abilty to hookup a mouse! Dang I'm getting excited! Why'd you have to say that?!? Maybe you can get a job at Creative in their "good ideas you make sound like a bad idea" department.
Old 19th September 2011
  #38
Gear Head
 

try the "SP1200" & "MPC" presets on the Decimort plugin (by D16 group),
and some NY compression. i made some rugged ass tracks with this combo.
and it is all inside my DAW.
its all about the material you sample. good luck

p.s. i would looooove to get my hands on an actual SP 1200 but im on the budget. but if u can afford one, you will get the sound you're looking for.
Old 19th September 2011
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Ray View Post
If they went 24bit, bit still had the original 12bit engine as an option too.
actually, that'd be doper than Barry Bonds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Ray View Post
Then give it a VGA and USB port with the abilty to hookup a mouse! Dang I'm getting excited! Why'd you have to say that?!? Maybe you can get a job at Creative in their "good ideas you make sound like a bad idea" department.
my idea was bad, but you extrapolated on it and made it a good idea.

my point was that there *need* to be evolutionary dead ends, you *need* obsolete technology, you *need* 12bit samplers not to be made 16 or 24bit.
otherwise the market becomes homogenized and every sampler does exactly the same thing.
Old 19th September 2011
  #40
Gear Head
 

Mpc with internal hard drive and jj os is untoppable

Tracking out sux but always sounds better

U can say what u want

But ur wrong

The sound is magical
Old 19th September 2011
  #41
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MPC's a thing of the past?

I respectfully disagree, but do also see your point! But in all fairness, I wish they were still making sp 1200s as they were so that they could be $300 and I could afford one... So I use my itb cheats, fool myself into thinking it's just as good, then wind up wondering why I done drank up all the haterade! (actually I feel pretty good about my sp1200 emulation tricks... And I've never seen anyone on gs talk about my particular recipe. Bwah haha!!)

I just think the trick (with ANYthing in life) is making changes that make improvements. Often things change only laterally or regressively, and then we're sold a load of bs claiming that the change is somehow progress... Meanwhile, A whole chunk of us fear change, because we know that it's a crap shoot that things actually improve. And whether they even needed to improve is a whole nother argument.

To the OP: no. It is not exclusively a thing of the past. But I'm sure as hellfire not going to recommend you buy one to start using in 2011 unless it's dirt cheap. $200 or less cheap.

My .02
Old 19th September 2011
  #42
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CRACKPIPE's Avatar
 

The MPC is a thing of the past? Tell that to Tricky Stewart.

There is a lot of modern music on the radio sequenced by MPC. Most the good stuff in fact.
Old 19th September 2011
  #43
Gear Addict
 
DoctorG's Avatar
 

Maybe MPC's are becoming a thing of the past. But I happen to like things of the past! The less I have to use a DAW to write the better for me. The same thing applies to synths. If I started with a controller and plugs then I'd probably feel different about it!
Old 19th September 2011
  #44
Gear Nut
 

I got my first MPC recently and I immediately understood why people love them. I work as a developer and after spending my work day in front of a computer screen it's nice to be doing something else when I'm making music. I get more focused on the groove and rarely have to quantize anything.

This is just a personal preference and does not mean that using software is wrong in any way.

I get the feeling that some people have to kind of justify the Maschine as a legitimate tool since it does not have the legacy and "authenticity" of the MPC.. Why bother? If you like the work flow, stick with it.

Take Burial for example. He uses Sound Forge and mouse+keyboard and still manages to put together amazing grooves.
Old 19th September 2011
  #45
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Nahuel's Avatar
 

If you want you can buy a few rack samplers that you can get for peanuts these days for resampling/sound design and keep using you computer for seq...groove features in ableton are the best I ever seen, I beleive cubase have the same stuff to.

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Old 19th September 2011
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWest View Post
why is it bleh? the technology for any mpc has been by far surpassed by most software tools. I would love to see an updated mpc that was similar to what maschine is. They should have done this 10 years ago when people started using DAWs more and more and now are losing major money to Maschine.


A lot of people use Maschine as a plug in in their DAW. It was originally meant to be a plug in I believe.
Sounds like you haven't used an MPC 4000 or 5000 before. Both of these MPCs have better sampling and sample editing tools than Maschine. Even the MPC 1000/2500 with the JJ OS has better sampling and sample editing than Maschine. Every software sampler (Kontakt, Battery, Mach 5, Emulator X) I have ever used is more powerful than Maschine.

I would like to see an updated MPC similar to Maschine while maitaing all the powerful sampling and MIDI sequencing tools and a hardware controller as robust as past MPCs...not a cheap feeling plastic controller....
Old 19th September 2011
  #47
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3rd Degree's Avatar
 

MPC's are only a thing of the past like a piano is a thing of the past. There is better technology than a piano but if a piano is what you need, then you probably don't care about newer technology.


I hope in time these threads become a thing of the past.
Old 19th September 2011
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by talontsiawd View Post
MPC's are only a thing of the past like a piano is a thing of the past. There is better technology than a piano but if a piano is what you need, then you probably don't care about newer technology.
good analogy
Old 19th September 2011
  #49
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jahrome View Post
Sounds like you haven't used an MPC 4000 or 5000 before. Both of these MPCs have better sampling and sample editing tools than Maschine. Even the MPC 1000/2500 with the JJ OS has better sampling and sample editing than Maschine. Every software sampler (Kontakt, Battery, Mach 5, Emulator X) I have ever used is more powerful than Maschine.
Of course the guy who was a part of the MPC5000 testing team would say that.

Maschine is not about having the most feature bloat. It's all about the ease of use and efficient hands-on workflow. When it comes to sampling and chopping, there is nothing, hardware or software, that is faster than Maschine, period. And most importantly, it's about the fun factor. You'll often hear people talk about how Maschine is so enjoyable to use and how it's been a lifechanging experience and it's no surprise that its popularity is spreading like wildfire.
Old 19th September 2011
  #50
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At the end of the day it's about the song, is it dope or wack? How somebody gets to the finish line is irrelevant. The musical success of a song does not depend on which tools were used to create it, it's dependent on the artist having a strong connection with the tools he or she uses. Workflow speed shouldn't be as important as some state on here. Some of the best ideas are hashed out by dealing with technical barriers. If you have a million options to approach your creativity, are you really going to arrive at the end of the song any faster? This is where the beauty of the mpc lies (especially the older ones), in their simplicity. So you can argue that maschine is technically better at getting work done, but how does it sound? How does it feel? I bought it and was impressed with its ability to integrate with the daw, especially the speed at which you could preview and load up sounds, but the clinical sound, and sequencer feel left a sour taste in my mouth. I don't care if the sound is accurate to the source, bottom line it doesn't have the rawness that hip-hop needs. The only way around this was either extensive processing in the daw or sampling into an asr or mpc, then into maschine, but at this point you're messing with the original inspiration and getting bogged down in technical **** again. So I sold it and got an mpc-2000 classic for 1/3 the cost. Sure it's slower, but the results at the end of the day are better. It sounds like hip-hop. See I have 2 methods of working: with the daw for more modern and complicated stuff and the mpc for the simpler, grittier stuff. I couldn't justify having maschine when I could get quicker and equal sounding results just using my daw with phatmatik pro for chopping and a bunch of other vsti for instruments. Anything goes really now as I can mix and match between the two. So if you want an inspirational piece get an mpc-2000 xl, learn it inside out for 400 or less, it's the perfect balance between old and new mpcs, and couple that with your daw and a MIDI keyboard and that should give you a nice balance between sound, creativity and workflow.

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Old 19th September 2011
  #51
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Retrofreak's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhonoquO View Post
At the end of the day it's about the song, is it dope or wack? How somebody gets to the finish line is irrelevant. The musical success of a song does not depend on which tools were used to create it, it's dependent on the artist having a strong connection with the tools he or she uses. Workflow speed shouldn't be as important as some state on here. Some of the best ideas are hashed out by dealing with technical barriers. If you have a million options to approach your creativity, are you really going to arrive at the end of the song any faster? This is where the beauty of the mpc lies (especially the older ones), in their simplicity. So you can argue that maschine is technically better at getting work done, but how does it sound? How does it feel? I bought it and was impressed with its ability to integrate with the daw, especially the speed at which you could preview and load up sounds, but the clinical sound, and sequencer feel left a sour taste in my mouth. I don't care if the sound is accurate to the source, bottom line it doesn't have the rawness that hip-hop needs. The only way around this was either extensive processing in the daw or sampling into an asr or mpc, then into maschine, but at this point you're messing with the original inspiration and getting bogged down in technical **** again. So I sold it and got an mpc-2000 classic for 1/3 the cost. Sure it's slower, but the results at the end of the day are better. It sounds like hip-hop. See I have 2 methods of working: with the daw for more modern and complicated stuff and the mpc for the simpler, grittier stuff. I couldn't justify having maschine when I could get quicker and equal sounding results just using my daw with phatmatik pro for chopping and a bunch of other vsti for instruments. Anything goes really now as I can mix and match between the two. So if you want an inspirational piece get an mpc-2000 xl, learn it inside out for 400 or less, it's the perfect balance between old and new mpcs, and couple that with your daw and a MIDI keyboard and that should give you a nice balance between sound, creativity and workflow.

Sent from my HTC Desire using Gearslutz.com App
Realtalk
Old 19th September 2011
  #52
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhonoquO View Post
I don't care if the sound is accurate to the source, bottom line it doesn't have the rawness that hip-hop needs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhonoquO View Post
So I sold it and got an mpc-2000 classic for 1/3 the cost. Sure it's slower, but the results at the end of the day are better. It sounds like hip-hop.
Old 19th September 2011
  #53
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Reggmail's Avatar
 


PhonoquO
Couldn't have said it better myself.
My MPC-1000 with ''JJ OS 2'' will always be relevant in my arsenal.
There is something about turning and tweaking real analog nob's that digital ''although it should be more accurate at times'' just do not seem to give me that same feel as real analog / digital gear.
Such as the MPC-1000, Protus 2000, Roland VP-9000 and so on.


Digital does have it's set of problems (latency, drivers, updates, whatever) often times, I find myself spending lots of time getting programs to interact with each other (Song writing goes out the window at this point) that's not good.
I just learn how to get the best of both worlds, ''MPC-1000 JJOS2 stand alone'' or as a controller with ''NI Battery'' or similar software, same drum mapped, B-Control BCF2000, favorite DAW...No problem.


Find out what works best for you then just do it. ( I found strengths and weaknesses in both digital software & analog modules )
Build and develop your own work flow rather it's ( in the box computer) external, or both.
It often takes months to, research, build and set up, but it's well worth it in the end.

MPC-1000 has about every software base company trying to emulate its feel and they still don't do it as well as the original.
(It An't Nothing Like The Real Thing Baby)......MPC's are here to stay.
& blessings.
Old 20th September 2011
  #54
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorG View Post
Maybe MPC's are becoming a thing of the past. But I happen to like things of the past! The less I have to use a DAW to write the better for me. The same thing applies to synths.
Right. Maschine takes what's great about things of the past such as the hands-on workflow, the 12bit sounds of SP1200/MPC60, tactile controls...etc. and offers seamless integration with the software side of things today.

Not wanting to use the DAW to make music is one of the main reasons Maschine has become so popular since it allows you to do exactly that. The level of integration turns the software experience into a hardware one:



Old 20th September 2011
  #55
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KevWest's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LimpyLoo View Post
actually, that'd be doper than Barry Bonds.



my idea was bad, but you extrapolated on it and made it a good idea.

my point was that there *need* to be evolutionary dead ends, you *need* obsolete technology, you *need* 12bit samplers not to be made 16 or 24bit.
otherwise the market becomes homogenized and every sampler does exactly the same thing.
Why do we need old technology? My point on old technology had more to do with floppy disks than bit rates. Sure most mpcs can take card readers but even those are dated. Its hard as hell to find a floppy or zip disk in 2011 even online. And the workflow in comparison to software is super slow. I'd love to see more hardware that could keep up with software options but I don't see people taking to it. There's a reason they haven't released a new mpc in 4 years and the one that they released was quickly discontinued.
Old 20th September 2011
  #56
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KevWest's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jahrome View Post
Sounds like you haven't used an MPC 4000 or 5000 before. Both of these MPCs have better sampling and sample editing tools than Maschine. Even the MPC 1000/2500 with the JJ OS has better sampling and sample editing than Maschine. Every software sampler (Kontakt, Battery, Mach 5, Emulator X) I have ever used is more powerful than Maschine.

I would like to see an updated MPC similar to Maschine while maitaing all the powerful sampling and MIDI sequencing tools and a hardware controller as robust as past MPCs...not a cheap feeling plastic controller....
I don't have much experience with those mpcs you are right but I never said maschine was better. I was talking about similar as in the controller that's totally intune with the software. Way to take something out of context. I stand by what I said thought software samplers imo are better than hardware samplers. I still like hardware though.
Old 20th September 2011
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWest View Post
Why do we need old technology? My point on old technology had more to do with floppy disks than bit rates. Sure most mpcs can take card readers but even those are dated. Its hard as hell to find a floppy or zip disk in 2011 even online. And the workflow in comparison to software is super slow. I'd love to see more hardware that could keep up with software options but I don't see people taking to it. There's a reason they haven't released a new mpc in 4 years and the one that they released was quickly discontinued.
people take to it. i agree about zip discs and the like (I have an sp-808 that takes 'em) being hard as hell to find (I grabbed 20 when i randomly found some). But I don't think convenience is the end goal. if so, i don't think people would bother with consoles or reel-to-reel or learning fm synthesis or maintaining a rare stringed instrument.

and i'm not praising the inconvenience of obsolete technology, i'm just saying not everything needs to be improved upon.
Old 20th September 2011
  #58
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PhonoquO's Avatar
 

Good instruments don't become obsolete, whereas computers and software quickly become obsolete as we all know, example: what happened to NI Kore? People who bought it for $ 500 are being abandoned whereas that old mpc keeps doing its thing like nothing happened and will continue to do so without relying on a computer for sampling and sequencing. You don't need elaborate technical features to make a hit. How many hits have you heard in the last 20 years that consisted of nothing more than basic drums, kick, snare hat clap, a dope melody and vocal? I've heard ****loads. Again, no new or old instrument is going to guarantee you write a good song. I'm seriously starting to think all the people who take the time to start threads and participate in bashing mpcs and acting like missionaries for maschine are either paid, or are trying to justify to themselves that they didn't make the biggest mistake by hastily selling their mpcs based on a few fanboy rants.

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Old 20th September 2011
  #59
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhonoquO View Post
Good instruments don't become obsolete, whereas computers and software quickly become obsolete as we all know, example: what happened to NI Kore? People who bought it for $ 500 are being abandoned
NEWSFLASH: Kore still works and still does what it did when people bought it. And even though it's discontinued, NI are making a few more updates including 64 bit support and providing unlimited technical support.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhonoquO View Post
whereas that old mpc keeps doing its thing like nothing happened and will continue to do so without relying on a computer for sampling and sequencing.
Software/controllers are no different than "hardware" as far as lifespan if you consider the fact that you can treat it like "hardware" and "freeze" your computer setup and don't have to upgrade the OS or the software. Most "hardware" are discontinued the moment they're released and hardly get any software update if ever.

In fact, Maschine's modular approach allows it to evolve as technology does, so it's actually much less likely to become obsolete compared to MPCs which will just become increasingly harder to maintain and keep working as time goes by.
Old 20th September 2011
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWest View Post
I don't have much experience with those mpcs you are right but I never said maschine was better. I was talking about similar as in the controller that's totally intune with the software. Way to take something out of context. I stand by what I said thought software samplers imo are better than hardware samplers. I still like hardware though.
I didn't take anything out of context. You implied the MPCs have been surpassed by most software tools and metioned Maschine in the same post. Well...software like Maschine has not surpassed the MPC 4000 or 5000 as a sampler. Maschine's sampler is significantly underpowered compared to these two MPCs. The fact is, Maschine as a sampler is among the worst software samplers available today even among Native Instrument products. What good is a "cheap" controller "intune" with limited software?

As far as MIDI sequencing, the MPC 4000 and 5000 has plenty under the hood...much more capable than Maschine and stacks up well against software MIDI sequencers. You can throw in the MV-8800 as well.

IMO, software samplers are only good for playing back sample libraries. I would much rather edit samples on an MPC despite. I am scratching my head about your comments indicating software is better when you admit you have no idea what these hardware samplers can do....

Today we have all this technology to create music...but the music being created with this technology is really bad (bad meaning bad, not bad meaning good). Maybe folks need to break out their MPCs, ASRs and ADAT recorders.....because this is what people are doing with all this technology: http://www.allhiphop.com/stories/mul.../22883231.aspx
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