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Phil Tan: Low End Studio Monitors
Old 5th August 2012
  #61
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Filthrill's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by illsoulprod View Post
I agree, its a bit misinforming to the beginner who thinks it is all done ITB when in reality some form of analog summing was done. While the processing of the music was done ITB the actual summing in which the mixer based there decisions off of is OTB. But...

This isn't an all the time every mixer thing so research is always needed and questions specifically about this should always be asked for further clarification.
Yup. So it's safe to say that there's different levels of ITB which would make a lot of pro mixer's ITB mixes a hell of a lot better than your average Joe. The pro's usually don't tell all of the story in their interviews & I can't really blame them. There's not gonna come out & say oh BTW I mixed ITB & used a great summing amp, 6 outboard units, & amazing converters which all gave there own help to the overall sound. People have got to keep a lil something to themselves cuz that's part of their edge & there ain't nuthin wrong w/ that (singing)...I said...I said...I said...there ain't nuthin wrong w/ that...

My bad I'm just in an unusually great mood today. I think I just took any Gearslutz credibility I have away. Do these lil smilies also take u down a couple notches?
Old 5th August 2012
  #62
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Storyville's Avatar
Ya'll are a trip.

Summing amps don't make that much of a difference. I prefer NOT to use one. To me it's just extra time to add another layer of saturation to the sound. When they do sound good, it's an inch difference.

The reason pro mixers sound better than bedroom engineers is because:

1) Many more years of experience working with other extremely experienced producers and engineers.

2) Better monitoring. That includes converters.

3) Better equipment, but more importantly, more appropriate equipment for what they are doing.
Old 5th August 2012
  #63
DAH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Storyville View Post
Ya'll are a trip.

Summing amps don't make that much of a difference. I prefer NOT to use one. To me it's just extra time to add another layer of saturation to the sound. When they do sound good, it's an inch difference.

The reason pro mixers sound better than bedroom engineers is because:

1) Many more years of experience working with other extremely experienced producers and engineers.

2) Better monitoring. That includes converters.

3) Better equipment, but more importantly, more appropriate equipment for what they are doing.
I'd say better acoustics too and\or skills to realize and compensate for problems related to it.
Old 9th August 2012
  #64
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No doubt. Simply having a summing amp & some outboard stuff doesn't mean you'll get a better mix at all. Only a fool would think it would. I was trying to say that those tools in the hands of a highly-experience engineer could help him or her way more than an amateur mixer & could help him or her get to a great & unique place sonically that MIGHT be a lil more difficult or take longer to achieve w/o those tools. From my experience the additional headroom & lil more "open" (better imaging) sound when summing can make your life a lot (or a lil) easier. Call me crazy but there's been times I mixed thru my summing amp only to pull it off & change to completely ITB & also preferred that mix. Plus it made recall on those songs a easier due to the client's budget & demands. The difference was negligible. Matter of preference here but if using a summing amp makes someone feel like they're getting a better mix, maybe they are.
Old 10th August 2012
  #65
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Dominic Owen's Avatar
+1. Rbass , use it all the time to beef things up.
Old 18th August 2012
  #66
Quote:
Originally Posted by idlabs View Post
Nope, didn't get the chance to sit in this time. Things got so rushed toward the end of the album that I had to be at my studio making changes to songs right up to the end (Wiz was adding parts to songs Phil had already mixed in some cases).

I did hear the rough of BnY for quite a while before it was mixed though. Phil obviously mixed the crap outta that song, but the rough wasn't very far off in terms of the low end and overall balances. I don't think he did anything too crazy other than clean things up, make things present, etc. Definitely had something going on in the low end on all his mixes though. I noticed it most with my tracks, because of my familiarity with them. The low end felt extended and more powerful (this was before mastering that I noticed so it was def done in the mix stage). Other than that, I loved what he did with Wiz's vocal. As someone who's mixed wiz many, many times, it's always enlightening to hear someone else's take on his vocal and Phil knocked it out of the park IMO.

All in all though, I have no idea what he uses or did other than deliver great mixes (quickly I might add). Also, him and his assistant Damien where incredibly easy to work with. Always a plus when the pressures on (as it was).
Thanks E
You did a great job too. Great stuff in = great stuff out!
-Damien
Old 18th August 2012
  #67
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Storyville's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Filthrill View Post
No doubt. Simply having a summing amp & some outboard stuff doesn't mean you'll get a better mix at all. Only a fool would think it would. I was trying to say that those tools in the hands of a highly-experience engineer could help him or her way more than an amateur mixer & could help him or her get to a great & unique place sonically that MIGHT be a lil more difficult or take longer to achieve w/o those tools. From my experience the additional headroom & lil more "open" (better imaging) sound when summing can make your life a lot (or a lil) easier. Call me crazy but there's been times I mixed thru my summing amp only to pull it off & change to completely ITB & also preferred that mix. Plus it made recall on those songs a easier due to the client's budget & demands. The difference was negligible. Matter of preference here but if using a summing amp makes someone feel like they're getting a better mix, maybe they are.
Exactly.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not knocking analog summing systems. Some of my favorite engineers swear by them. What I'm saying (and what you are saying I believe) is that it's just part of the process. If your process works with a summing system - then it works.
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