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Phil Tan: Low End Studio Monitors
Old 19th September 2011
  #31
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I'm pretty sure Phil Tan uses the Metric Halo Channel Strip for his bass...

At least that's what he said on Pensado's Place.
Old 20th September 2011
  #32
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I am waiting when this topic gonna expand about various low end techniques. Common ppl share some knowledge all I know its all about leaving space in the mix for bass to breathe..
Old 20th September 2011
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i3enjamin View Post
I'm pretty sure Phil Tan uses the Metric Halo Channel Strip for his bass...

At least that's what he said on Pensado's Place.

He did use that before SSL came out with their plug ins.

He is drawn towards the SSL sound since that is what he's used too.

That being said Phil doesn't use just one plug for bass or anything else. He uses what he needs and hears for a particular song.

Old 20th September 2011
  #34
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I give up...

I'm gonna try and get ahold of E. Dan, Wiz's original producer from here in Pittsburgh (I.D. Labs). I'm fairly sure he sat in on most of the mixing sessions for Rolling Papers.

Wiz flew him out to L.A. 'cause he's cool like that. I know he at least sat in while Phil mixed his contributions to the album.

Don't be surprised if I'm right.
Old 20th September 2011
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ramil View Post
I am waiting when this topic gonna expand about various low end techniques. Common ppl share some knowledge all I know its all about leaving space in the mix for bass to breathe..
Tips for Mixing the Low End
Old 20th September 2011
  #36
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idlabs's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by E.rOk.stA View Post
I give up...

I'm gonna try and get ahold of E. Dan, Wiz's original producer from here in Pittsburgh (I.D. Labs). I'm fairly sure he sat in on most of the mixing sessions for Rolling Papers.

Wiz flew him out to L.A. 'cause he's cool like that. I know he at least sat in while Phil mixed his contributions to the album.

Don't be surprised if I'm right.
Nope, didn't get the chance to sit in this time. Things got so rushed toward the end of the album that I had to be at my studio making changes to songs right up to the end (Wiz was adding parts to songs Phil had already mixed in some cases).

I did hear the rough of BnY for quite a while before it was mixed though. Phil obviously mixed the crap outta that song, but the rough wasn't very far off in terms of the low end and overall balances. I don't think he did anything too crazy other than clean things up, make things present, etc. Definitely had something going on in the low end on all his mixes though. I noticed it most with my tracks, because of my familiarity with them. The low end felt extended and more powerful (this was before mastering that I noticed so it was def done in the mix stage). Other than that, I loved what he did with Wiz's vocal. As someone who's mixed wiz many, many times, it's always enlightening to hear someone else's take on his vocal and Phil knocked it out of the park IMO.

All in all though, I have no idea what he uses or did other than deliver great mixes (quickly I might add). Also, him and his assistant Damien where incredibly easy to work with. Always a plus when the pressures on (as it was).
Old 20th September 2011
  #37
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E.rOk.stA's Avatar
 

Ha! You saved me a phone call. I should hit you up anyway, we still need to chill.
Old 20th September 2011
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Storyville View Post
thank you!! I always used to high pass as much as I can every sound apart from kick/bass without making sound too thin as a default and I see that might be not a really good idea sometimes.. I give a go with some tips from this article.
Old 21st September 2011
  #39
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I thought Black and Yellow was mixed by Pensado, he talks about it on Pensado's Place
Old 21st September 2011
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i3enjamin View Post
I'm pretty sure Phil Tan uses the Metric Halo Channel Strip for his bass...

At least that's what he said on Pensado's Place.
I am a pretty avid user of Channel Strip, and I assure you, low end is not its star feature.

My guess on this is Stargates' samples. These guys do not play.
Old 21st September 2011
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idlabs View Post
this was before mastering that I noticed so it was def done in the mix stage
Ok, this is a valuable information for me.

1. Maybe I still have to accomodate to my freshly optimized/ changed room.
2. I might not yet be driving my Opals hard enough.
Old 21st September 2011
  #42
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idlabs's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by robotpriest View Post
I thought Black and Yellow was mixed by Pensado, he talks about it on Pensado's Place
Nope, was Phil. Though Dave did mix a few songs for Wiz a few years ago (Say Yeah, Make It Hot, All In My Blood, Youngin On His Grind).
Old 21st September 2011
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robotpriest View Post
I thought Black and Yellow was mixed by Pensado, he talks about it on Pensado's Place

If I remember correctly he spoke of it because he used it as a reference.

I think he loved the reverb on it.
Old 22nd September 2011
  #44
Old 7th November 2011
  #45
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by idlabs View Post
Nope, didn't get the chance to sit in this time. Things got so rushed toward the end of the album that I had to be at my studio making changes to songs right up to the end (Wiz was adding parts to songs Phil had already mixed in some cases).

I did hear the rough of BnY for quite a while before it was mixed though. Phil obviously mixed the crap outta that song, but the rough wasn't very far off in terms of the low end and overall balances. I don't think he did anything too crazy other than clean things up, make things present, etc. Definitely had something going on in the low end on all his mixes though. I noticed it most with my tracks, because of my familiarity with them. The low end felt extended and more powerful (this was before mastering that I noticed so it was def done in the mix stage). Other than that, I loved what he did with Wiz's vocal. As someone who's mixed wiz many, many times, it's always enlightening to hear someone else's take on his vocal and Phil knocked it out of the park IMO.

All in all though, I have no idea what he uses or did other than deliver great mixes (quickly I might add). Also, him and his assistant Damien where incredibly easy to work with. Always a plus when the pressures on (as it was).
good info.. are you big jerm?
Old 21st November 2011
  #46
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Stargate uses really great samples (a lot of which are from Sandy Vee, and Vengeance) Their kick's amaze me, extreme low end while still being clean and still punchy. Phil does a really great job with their tracks, and knows when and when not to make changes- which is incredibly important when you're being given a really great product to mix. I know he loves Metric Halo, SSL channel, RComp, and sums into a SSL XRack. He doesn't always crush things with compression, but when it comes to EQ he really knows how to clean things up and make everything stand out. Really great mixer, and person.
Old 21st November 2011
  #47
KT1
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Ok, I love Phil's mix's. Actually drop it was one of my fav's! Sure the low end sounds nice. It's an 808 sounding analog sample from what i hear (guessing) and i have to say - I dont MIX!!. That being said some of the best mixes i have had back from my engineer back in the days of Uk Jungle had huge bottom end. It was mostly untouched in terms of processing. That being said we left a lot of space. Some distortion for harmonic content. Although i love the low end on this track it doesn't stand out to me as something special which i have never heard before. In fact if you listen to some of the older jungle/dubstep. The bass is even more present as is the genre.

When asking those mix engineers what and how. It was mostly - Dude top end is the challenge. Bottom is left real loose. I find that a good signal audio source is more important then any fancy trick.

Disclaimer: I am only repeating what i have been told and by no means have been responsible for the mix's i have heard with EPIC bass.
Old 21st November 2011
  #48
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There's definitely a few processing things that can make the low end bigger - but there's really nothing like having it built into the source sound and arrangement to maximize the bass size.

What's REALLY impressive about Black & Yellow is that the bass is huge - but there's also tons of **** going on in the mix. It's not sparse during that chorus. And yet the bass still sounds really big.

Here's something KT might dig - it's got tons of low end - 75% of which is because the arrangement allows for it. Still a work in progress but pretty close to done.

Artist is this crazy dude: Fate Is A Weapon Productions Home
Super talented.
Attached Files

FIAW Dub (weiss 1).mp3 (8.58 MB, 384 views)

Old 21st November 2011
  #49
KT1
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Nice job dude ..very London sound with all the synth lines dropping off the same midi track..def had that toad croak in the bottom so remnant of ni massive yet we know its raw on a moog or sh101. Loved the long riser coming up with the low pass being lifted with it. Sounded like some synth resampling as well. It satisfied my need for bass haha. Nice one dude.

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Gearslutz.com
Old 23rd November 2011
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KT1 View Post
Nice job dude ..very London sound with all the synth lines dropping off the same midi track..def had that toad croak in the bottom so remnant of ni massive yet we know its raw on a moog or sh101. Loved the long riser coming up with the low pass being lifted with it. Sounded like some synth resampling as well. It satisfied my need for bass haha. Nice one dude.

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Gearslutz.com
Good ears dude! A lot of the synth do drop from the same midi track. The "croak" as you call it was a Prophet. Synths were resampled I believe through Ableton's "beat repeat". I'm going to add some moving ambience and a couple other filters and call it a day on this one.
Old 23rd November 2011
  #51
KT1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Storyville View Post
Good ears dude! A lot of the synth do drop from the same midi track. The "croak" as you call it was a Prophet. Synths were resampled I believe through Ableton's "beat repeat". I'm going to add some moving ambience and a couple other filters and call it a day on this one.
It's the music i'm surrounded by! i used to dabble! A lot of these kats are using this method now - very effective especially for dub step where you have 4-5 bass leads..One that growls..one sub..one thats modulating etc..they just use the same midi track and bam swap between them - Like the 8 bit squares modulating upwards for that computer game style. Very nice.

You should check out 'Shroff' probably the best at this style and a friend if you like this style.

The mix is great dude - not the way we would do it in London town but defo brings something different to the table. It's more polished with such aggressive sounds super pleasing and a light relief from the overt harsh mixes i hear in this genre which sound overtly digital ' Out of choice'.

Beat repeat rocks! In fact lives musical production plugs all rock. Beat repeat - redux 'one of the nicest bit crushers' the vinyl distortion and the autofilter are some of my favs. On my remix i used beat repeat in conjunction with verb on the bell for that glitched delay type vibe.

A prophet? AWSOME! which one? Doesn't sound like my 8 but then again i'm still very new to programming it. The Moog satisfies my 'croak' and NI massive has a great osc wave form for it.

Sounding awesome dude!
Old 23rd November 2011
  #52
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Tad bit of short reverb maybe?
Old 23rd November 2011
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KT1 View Post
It's the music i'm surrounded by! i used to dabble! A lot of these kats are using this method now - very effective especially for dub step where you have 4-5 bass leads..One that growls..one sub..one thats modulating etc..they just use the same midi track and bam swap between them - Like the 8 bit squares modulating upwards for that computer game style. Very nice.

You should check out 'Shroff' probably the best at this style and a friend if you like this style.

The mix is great dude - not the way we would do it in London town but defo brings something different to the table. It's more polished with such aggressive sounds super pleasing and a light relief from the overt harsh mixes i hear in this genre which sound overtly digital ' Out of choice'.

Beat repeat rocks! In fact lives musical production plugs all rock. Beat repeat - redux 'one of the nicest bit crushers' the vinyl distortion and the autofilter are some of my favs. On my remix i used beat repeat in conjunction with verb on the bell for that glitched delay type vibe.

A prophet? AWSOME! which one? Doesn't sound like my 8 but then again i'm still very new to programming it. The Moog satisfies my 'croak' and NI massive has a great osc wave form for it.

Sounding awesome dude!
I'll check Shroff. I was wondering about the "harshness" factor. I did notice that a lot of the euro-dubstep (original dubstep) was a bit edgier sounding.

I believe he has a Dave Smith Prophet re-release.
Old 23rd November 2011
  #54
KT1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Storyville View Post
I'll check Shroff. I was wondering about the "harshness" factor. I did notice that a lot of the euro-dubstep (original dubstep) was a bit edgier sounding.

I believe he has a Dave Smith Prophet re-release.
Truth is Dubstep should have a 'harsh' Factor - but it is mostly the result of mixing style. I think a more vinyl approach sonically is actually what seperates the average decent jo from the Dub megastar! Like i said i actually think your mix was refreshing..If you had done the euro thing i would of been like..Yeh its aight..

Simply i have heard it so much. Do what your heart says..I like the direction and the sonics are spot on.

Yeh it's the 8 - I have one :D But i dont make it scream like that!

In fact i only use it for pads..and i am not great at programming it. Need to give her some time. The Moog is like an extension of my arm now.It just makes sense.
Old 24th November 2011
  #55
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Black and Yellow is a great mix... Props to Phil on that one. He's a super classy guy. I had the honor of assisting for him years back when I was getting started. Easy to assist for he was all ITB.

Another great Low end one to check is Wu-tang "one of these days" on Iron Flag. You won't here the extreme sub unless you are a SUPER system, and I'm talking super! That was mixed by Caleb Shreve.
Great thing about "black and yellow" is it translates very well.
Old 18th March 2012
  #56
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Anthony Hamilton song Better Days. I think it's a Phil Tan mix. It's just crazy how good this mix sounds on my NS10's. That low end is just sick.
Old 20th March 2012
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E.rOk.stA View Post
Because alot of car stereos come with a form of Waves' MaxxBass technology that uses psychoacoustics, introducing harmonics of a sub frequency to trick the brain to "hearing" it.

Even if the stereo doesn't have it, mixers anticipate that listeners are going to be listening on; 1- headphones, 2- computer monitors, or 3- cars. Neither of those have the subs or drivers to translate anything below 60-100db at best. They (even I do it) put RBass or MaxxBass plugins on the kick and bass tracks to give that lowend presence. I use RBass on almost everything. Demo it, it's sick.

In conclusion, the song itself doesn't actually have alot of sub-bass.
do you only drop it on the individual stems that need it? have you ever tried it across the 2bus? or would that introduce a lot of unwanted low end on sounds that you dont want having it?
Old 4th August 2012
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRBaudio View Post
Stargate uses really great samples (a lot of which are from Sandy Vee, and Vengeance) Their kick's amaze me, extreme low end while still being clean and still punchy. Phil does a really great job with their tracks, and knows when and when not to make changes- which is incredibly important when you're being given a really great product to mix. I know he loves Metric Halo, SSL channel, RComp, and sums into a SSL XRack. He doesn't always crush things with compression, but when it comes to EQ he really knows how to clean things up and make everything stand out. Really great mixer, and person.
This is not directed to u. I just wanted to comment on something that always bugged me & maybe u guys might want to chime in. I always trip when some people say that so-and-so mixer did an ITB mix on a certain song only for it to later be known that the mixer used a summing amp or better yet = a console. I don't think this qualifies as an ITB mix cuz summing externally can make a huge difference. To me, summing externally automatically means they could've even went thru any additional external processing they wanted to use making the playing field for some poor soul in his bedroom who truly does mixes ITB extremely uneven.

When I think ITB I'm thinking all summing in Pro Tools or whatever platform & all processing & effects being done IN THE COMPUTER. I know some hits were done this way. Let's just call a spade a spade tho people.

Not saying u said this at all. I'm just trying to see if anyone on here feels the same way.

Peace slutz
Old 4th August 2012
  #59
Hobbs_Won
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KT1 View Post
Nice job dude ..very London sound with all the synth lines dropping off the same midi track..def had that toad croak in the bottom so remnant of ni massive yet we know its raw on a moog or sh101. Loved the long riser coming up with the low pass being lifted with it. Sounded like some synth resampling as well. It satisfied my need for bass haha. Nice one dude.

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Gearslutz.com
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storyville View Post
Good ears dude! A lot of the synth do drop from the same midi track. The "croak" as you call it was a Prophet. Synths were resampled I believe through Ableton's "beat repeat". I'm going to add some moving ambience and a couple other filters and call it a day on this one.
How can you tell the synths were dropping from the same midi track??
Old 4th August 2012
  #60
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This is funny. Looking back, I would change my take on the low end. I hardly ever reach for Rbass anymore. Honestly, alot of low end saturation can be done with Slate VCC, Slate VTM, or actually bounce to tape.
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