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looking for that goold old school sound Drum Machines & Samplers
Old 1st January 2011
  #1
Here for the gear
 

looking for that goold old school sound

Hi everyone,

i'm new to the forums, i fairly new to making beats on a computer (i'm a classic drummer and bass player)

recently i bought a macpro and have been saving up to buy some recording software, i already have a synth (roland- xp 80) witch i could also use as midi keyboard.

I'm looking to buy some really good drum computer software, i was reading around a bit and allot of people seem to go with "battery - native instruments" the sound i want is those really old-school fat drum sounds (i'm thinking E-mu SP 1200 , juice crew, marly marl, eric b & rakim -paid in full era type of sound, enter the wu) Is Battery capable of producing these kind of kicks, snares...etc

What software would you guys recommend -

i appreciate all of the tips and help guys!

have a happy newyear all
Old 1st January 2011
  #2
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bonusbmusic's Avatar
 

buy an sp1200. u can get the sounds but will never simulate the workflow
Old 1st January 2011
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bonusbmusic View Post
buy an sp1200. u can get the sounds but will never simulate the workflow
hi, i did actually think about buying the sp1200 but where i live they are verry hard to find, and the ones that are up for sale have a major price tag on them, not in my budget league. I'm afraid buying the SP1200 is not an option...
Old 1st January 2011
  #4
T1M
Gear Maniac
 

its more about the samples you use than the software you use to create your tunes with. a chopped up amen break sounds damn near identical regardless of what you used to cut it up.
Old 1st January 2011
  #5
g22
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Get an mpc60, those might be easier to find, and ebay has them all the time, I cant imagine shipping being that much on such a small item, no matter where you are.

Also the ensoniq eps is 13 bit, which RZA used I think on some early beats.
Old 1st January 2011
  #6
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atma's Avatar
unfortunately there really isn't any software out there that genuinely sounds like those vintage samplers. you generally have to use certain plugins and tricks to approximate it, regardless of what soft sampler you're using.
Old 1st January 2011
  #7
mp3
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Yeah I agree, if you want authentic old school, then you want an old school piece. Maybe you can find an Emax, it sounds similar to the SP. Or an S900/S950 which akai made around the same time as the mpc 60. Barring that, battery and maschine have sp/mpc emulation built in. There are also plugins you can get to help you get close to that sound. My favorite is Tone Projects Sonitex. There's nothing like the real thing though.

But on the other hand, if your drums bang, congratulate yourself, not the machine. And if they don't bang, blame yourself, not the machine.

I also agree that using the right samples is the most important thing.
Old 1st January 2011
  #8
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CRACKPIPE's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by T1M View Post
its more about the samples you use than the software you use to create your tunes with. a chopped up amen break sounds damn near identical regardless of what you used to cut it up.
I agree. I mean yeah, using a sp12.. or mpc60 will give great results because they were the tools of the day but you would still have to use similar sampling and chopping techniques. Any software can give decent results if done correctly.

Arrangement, inspiration, intent, vision... all come before gear. Gear are tools, you are the artist. blah blah blah, not saying anything you probably don't know.

Take your favorite beat of the era and rebuild it. It will be a great learning experience. If you don't know the samples, go to the-breaks and search their databass, or chop your own sounds to similar result. If you play an instrument, try and play the parts, even.

Train, train, train. I'm always training and I'm a few years deep. I bet even Philly is training.

My dad who is a master guitar player said, you never really master it. You just keep doing your scales every day, practicing, and do the best you can. I don't play but I apply that to my music.

Before you know it, you'll be inspired, with stronger ability with the tools, making beautiful music.
Old 1st January 2011
  #9
g22
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A someone else mentioned, and I forgot about before, those Akai S-series samplers are probably your best choice, if your just looking for strictly sound. They are practically being given away on ebay nowadays. The 900 series are still a lot, but I've seen the 2000, 3000, and 1000's for like $100-$200 or less.
Old 1st January 2011
  #10
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I think if you learn how to really tweak the settings in Shortcircuit VST 1.2 (bit crush/bit reduction) and something like that new Roundtone VST by sknote you will have a pretty sweet sounding drum sound to get that SP1200 sound. Reason being that old school tone, used old school gear. So having something that simulates that tape stage is crucial IMHO.

I'd also recommend Ferric TDS for a cleaner different tape sound, along with Tessla SE, you will get some pretty SWEET sounding crunchy drums like this and then when they hit one of those tape plugins you will be in HEAVEN.heh


Peace
Illumination
Old 1st January 2011
  #11
Gear Head
 

He asks for specific software recommendations and people suggest he buys an SP1200 or an MPC60 - what's wrong with you?

Decimort is arguably the best plugin for what you want, but remember, be subtle with it.
Old 1st January 2011
  #12
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CRACKPIPE's Avatar
 

Did I mention this thread is a huge deja-vous? No actually I just don't feel like, but have been in a carbon copy of this same thread 6 months ago. heh
Old 1st January 2011
  #13
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thnx for all the help and tips guys, i really appreciate it!!!
Old 1st January 2011
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g22 View Post
The 900 series are still a lot, but I've seen the 2000, 3000, and 1000's for like $100-$200 or less.
Really?!! I'm glad to read that. I've got an old S950 gathering dust in the attic. I just assumed I'd struggle to even give it away.
Old 1st January 2011
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by binarymilton View Post
Really?!! I'm glad to read that. I've got an old S950 gathering dust in the attic. I just assumed I'd struggle to even give it away.
Well, seeing as your in London and I'm also in the UK, perhaps we can reach an arrangement heh

I've been after this sound for a long time and I've learnt that doing things like they would in the old days is really the key, now it may sound obvious but I mean much more than the overall sound of it. For example, using already 'dusty' breaks and saturating them to hell, pitching them down or up depending on the original tempo relative to your track tempo, a break at around 115bpm to say 90bpm etc etc, really limiting yourself to how much sample time you use, even though you can have unlimited sample time on a DAW, limit yourself to the specs of the samplers during the golden age. Force yourself to have to work a song like they used to.

As said in a post above, Decimort is awesome. There is a free plugin as well out there as well called Timemachine which could be useful for you.
Old 1st January 2011
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by illacov View Post
I think if you learn how to really tweak the settings in Shortcircuit VST 1.2 (bit crush/bit reduction)

I'd also recommend Ferric TDS for a cleaner different tape sound, along with Tessla SE, you will get some pretty SWEET sounding crunchy drums like this and then when they hit one of those tape plugins you will be in HEAVEN.heh
Just DL'd them. nice thanks for the tip.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaststyle View Post
There is a free plugin as well out there as well called Timemachine which could be useful for you.
I DL'd this one a while back, its pretty good for that tape effect.
Old 3rd January 2011
  #17
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by artoficial View Post
I'm looking to buy some really good drum computer software, i was reading around a bit and allot of people seem to go with "battery - native instruments" the sound i want is those really old-school fat drum sounds (i'm thinking E-mu SP 1200 , juice crew, marly marl, eric b & rakim -paid in full era type of sound, enter the wu) Is Battery capable of producing these kind of kicks, snares...etc
Yup. The SP1200/MPC60 emulation in Maschine and Battery is the closest you'll get to get that specific sound in software. The vintage mode in Maschine and Battery is based on actual component modelling even down to details like the aliasing effect from the tuning of the sample and the different filters on the outputs of the SP 1200. Both emulations trace the exact signal flow through the actual machines.
Old 3rd January 2011
  #18
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atma's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by noggin View Post
Yup. The SP1200/MPC60 emulation in Maschine and Battery is the closest you'll get to get that specific sound in software. The vintage mode in Maschine and Battery is based on actual component modelling even down to details like the aliasing effect from the tuning of the sample and the different filters on the outputs of the SP 1200. Both emulations trace the exact signal flow through the actual machines.

that's really interesting, i'd like to try battery now just for that. haven't used it in years and years, this must be a relatively new addition to it.
Old 3rd January 2011
  #19
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by atma View Post
that's really interesting, i'd like to try battery now just for that. haven't used it in years and years, this must be a relatively new addition to it.
Yeah, it's a Maschine feature that got added to Battery.
Old 4th January 2011
  #20
mp3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noggin View Post
Yup. The SP1200/MPC60 emulation in Maschine and Battery is the closest you'll get to get that specific sound in software. The vintage mode in Maschine and Battery is based on actual component modelling even down to details like the aliasing effect from the tuning of the sample and the different filters on the outputs of the SP 1200. Both emulations trace the exact signal flow through the actual machines.
That comes off like an advert.

Anyway, the emulation in Battery is actually pretty good, to my ear. I think Sonitex is the best, but Battery sounds better than Decimort to me.
Old 4th January 2011
  #21
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atma's Avatar
yeah, personally i actually think decimort is terrible sounding. but i don't like the way any of their plugins sound. i've always stuck with the Timemachine vst.
Old 4th January 2011
  #22
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illacov's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by atma View Post
yeah, personally i actually think decimort is terrible sounding. but i don't like the way any of their plugins sound. i've always stuck with the Timemachine vst.
Seriously Roundtone is $10. Couple that with Time machine and Tessla SE and you have some SERIOUS old school grit waiting to happen.

Peace
Illumination
Old 4th January 2011
  #23
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Castro_Bigdog's Avatar
 

I like to lay down the drums then re sample them through a tube pre then really give them my own lil grit to make it my own.... then Comp., EQ, then Maximize and WALLA !!!! Old School Grimmy KICK!!!!.... But thats Just Me LOL
Old 4th January 2011
  #24
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Castro_Bigdog's Avatar
 

here is a easier way, make a drum pattern then take a Mic and put it up to your speakers and HIT record... after that you will have a very dope azz drum sample... I do it all the time and get great samples.... just my 2 pennies
Old 4th January 2011
  #25
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by artoficial View Post
Hi everyone,

i'm new to the forums, i fairly new to making beats on a computer (i'm a classic drummer and bass player)

recently i bought a macpro and have been saving up to buy some recording software, i already have a synth (roland- xp 80) witch i could also use as midi keyboard.

I'm looking to buy some really good drum computer software, i was reading around a bit and allot of people seem to go with "battery - native instruments" the sound i want is those really old-school fat drum sounds (i'm thinking E-mu SP 1200 , juice crew, marly marl, eric b & rakim -paid in full era type of sound, enter the wu) Is Battery capable of producing these kind of kicks, snares...etc

What software would you guys recommend
That sound that you are looking for is more than just the drum machine/sampler. It's the converters on the drum machine sampler, the 2" tape machine is was recorded to, the large format analog console where it was mixed thru by a qualified engineer with many pieces of hardware outboard down to 1/2" tape. You will be simulating the least important element soundwise in that chain in an attempt to get that Juice Crew sound. Good luck.
Old 4th January 2011
  #26
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Groovenizer's Avatar
 

+1 S900
Old 5th January 2011
  #27
mp3
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looking for that goold old school sound

That's why I like sonitex, because it takes the whole signal path into consideration.
Old 5th January 2011
  #28
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atma's Avatar
i think sonitex is a great plugin, however i never really liked the sound of its decimation.. i would spend way too much time tweaking the decimation settings trying to get a sound i actually liked. i love some of its vinyl emulation features though.
Old 7th January 2011
  #29
mp3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atma View Post
i think sonitex is a great plugin, however i never really liked the sound of its decimation.. i would spend way too much time tweaking the decimation settings trying to get a sound i actually liked. i love some of its vinyl emulation features though.
That's funny, that's the the sampler emulation is the part I like most. I was able to pretty much nail the EMAX sound with it.
Old 9th January 2011
  #30
Sonitex is f'in GREAT! and way underrated (think that's mostly due to the fact it's only PC).

Now if it wouldn't cause PT (wrapped as RTAS) to lock up and go south everytime it is taken of a channel it would be perfect!
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