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Punching-in not on point?
Old 31st December 2010
  #1
Gear Nut
 

Punching-in not on point?

When ur punching in u have to be on point ...correct? my friend is like let me punch in every 2 bars and he didnt punch in every 2 bars i had to set it up manually which is a bitch because cubase 5 doesn't show the exact point where u set up the next punch in.
Old 31st December 2010
  #2
Gear Guru
 
rickrock305's Avatar
 

Huh?
Old 31st December 2010
  #3
Punching-in not on point?

Have a record track & 2 main track. Always record on the record track but the other two are for the main take. The second is there for is there punch overlaps the previous take.

Also punches happen on 1,2,3,4. But also on the "and" & "uh" counts too.
Old 31st December 2010
  #4
Lives for gear
 
Igotsoul4u's Avatar
seriously guys. You do realize it takes time to get your skills together. Do you really think you will be able to punch in like your going to work? It's a skill and skills take practice. Read the manual and learn. Stop blaming the software and other factors.

BTW If you can't spit an entire verse you are whack. Every two bar punches is so lame.
Old 31st December 2010
  #5
Gear Maniac
 
liotta soda's Avatar
 

Punching-in not on point?

Why dont u just record on 2 tracks

Like take 1 goes the first 2 bars of the verse on record track 1

Then arm record track 2 and rap a half bar before the 3rd bar comes in so flow matches and it doesnt sound like a punch

Do this til u finish verse

Then comp and crossfade all them audio chunks accordingly on another track

Easy and ur punches wont be as noticable
Old 31st December 2010
  #6
Punching-in not on point?

Uhh, like he said^ like I said....

Haha! And yes, you always have to be on point.
Old 31st December 2010
  #7
Gear Guru
 
rickrock305's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by liotta soda View Post
Why dont u just record on 2 tracks

Like take 1 goes the first 2 bars of the verse on record track 1

Then arm record track 2 and rap a half bar before the 3rd bar comes in so flow matches and it doesnt sound like a punch

Do this til u finish verse

Then comp and crossfade all them audio chunks accordingly on another track

Easy and ur punches wont be as noticable


The problem with that is a lot of people don't like hearing that doubling of vocals right before the punch. And rapping/singing along before the punch is crucial.

Unless the lines actually overlap, there's no reason not to just punch in where you need to punch in. Its not that difficult, just takes a bit of practice. And if you screw it up, Pro Tools allows you to drag the region back out. Not sure about Cubase.

This is one of those things that people try and discover that engineering isn't quite as easy as it looks heh
Old 31st December 2010
  #8
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liotta soda's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rickrock305 View Post
The problem with that is a lot of people don't like hearing that doubling of vocals right before the punch. And rapping/singing along before the punch is crucial.

Unless the lines actually overlap, there's no reason not to just punch in where you need to punch in. Its not that difficult, just takes a bit of practice. And if you screw it up, Pro Tools allows you to drag the region back out. Not sure about Cubase.

This is one of those things that people try and discover that engineering isn't quite as easy as it looks heh


u mean the guy recording or the listener?

recording i love hearing it before so while i'm sayin it i can match my voice up in that split second so it sounds the same at punch point and u can't notice the punch when the verse it edited up
Old 31st December 2010
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MG_BEATS View Post
When ur punching in u have to be on point ...correct? my friend is like let me punch in every 2 bars and he didnt punch in every 2 bars i had to set it up manually which is a bitch because cubase 5 doesn't show the exact point where u set up the next punch in.
you don't have to be perfect. Just in the area. After the take just pull the waveforms from the edges to fix the punch spot.

The 2bar thing is pretty prevalent down in Miami. Plies and few others down there record 2 bars at a time and do the fill in 2bars on another track.
Old 31st December 2010
  #10
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Marshall Oliver's Avatar
 

using two tracks would help. Seems to be an echo in hear.
Old 31st December 2010
  #11
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
BTW If you can't spit an entire verse you are whack. Every two bar punches is so lame.
I disagree. You would be surprised how many big rappers punch in bars and record like that. T.I. you can hear it on several tracks and it makes his flow sound smoother when its all said and done. A lot of time people write raps that require you to break it up but that **** is not easy and takes a lot of practice.
Old 31st December 2010
  #12
Gear Guru
 
rickrock305's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by liotta soda View Post
u mean the guy recording or the listener?

recording i love hearing it before so while i'm sayin it i can match my voice up in that split second so it sounds the same at punch point and u can't notice the punch when the verse it edited up

the person recording.

you are the only person i've ever came across that likes to hear it.
Old 31st December 2010
  #13
Gear Maniac
 
liotta soda's Avatar
 

Punching-in not on point?

I can make the flow sound like it was straight thru like that

Without hearing it and rapping along with it, u can usually hear the punch
Old 31st December 2010
  #14
Punching-in not on point?

I find it to be 50/50 but I generally only record about the same 5 people.
Old 31st December 2010
  #15
Gear Guru
 
rickrock305's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by liotta soda View Post

Without hearing it and rapping along with it, u can usually hear the punch

i agree that rapping along is key, but hearing it is not.
Old 31st December 2010
  #16
Lives for gear
I personally don't like the 2 tracks method because of what rickrock305 said. Just punch on the same track. This ain't tape, you can undo, redrag, etc. Plus, then you don't have to waste time comping together after every damn take.

As for setting up punch points, I don't bother. I'm sure at some point in time I've done it once or twice. I just do it manually. My ears and finger are more damn accurate than any punch locator LOL!
Old 31st December 2010
  #17
Gear Guru
 
rickrock305's Avatar
 

Punching-in not on point?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris carter
Plus, then you don't have to waste time comping together after every damn take.
Yup, my comp and crossfades and everything is done immediately.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris carter
As for setting up punch points, I don't bother. I'm sure at some point in time I've done it once or twice. I just do it manually. My ears and finger are more damn accurate than any punch locator LOL!

Yea, screw that method. Takes more time and effort than just punching in!
Old 31st December 2010
  #18
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E.rOk.stA's Avatar
 

The only time I punch in, I'm using it as an effect. I've done verses where I punch every 1 or 2 bars on 2 seperate tracks, panning one L and one R. If I don't get something right, I'm scratchin' the take and goin for it although I have clients that punch in all the time. You would never hear it 'cause I match them up seamless.
Old 31st December 2010
  #19
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Marshall Oliver's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by traw View Post
I disagree. You would be surprised how many big rappers punch in bars and record like that.
Alot of guys (big name or not) aren't that good. Doesn't mean you won't sell. But as far as artistically goes, not being able to rap a full verse, let alone a full song, is wacky McWackington.
Old 31st December 2010
  #20
Gear Nut
 

I lost my cubase 5 manual anyways are u a bad rapper if u can't time a 2 bar punch in(if u say u want to punch in every 2 bars) but u end up being off
Old 31st December 2010
  #21
Gear Guru
 
rickrock305's Avatar
 

Punching-in not on point?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MG_BEATS
I lost my cubase 5 manual anyways are u a bad rapper if u can't time a 2 bar punch in(if u say u want to punch in every 2 bars) but u end up being off

Yes! Lol

Give them a few bars of preroll and have them rap along with whats already been recorded
Old 31st December 2010
  #22
Gear Nut
 
Griffin Avid's Avatar
 

But as far as artistically goes, not being able to rap a full verse, let alone a full song, is wacky McWackington.

The EXACT OPPOSITE. Artistry is being a RECORDING ARTIST. Being a GOOD engineer is being transparent and getting ANY technical concerns out of the way of the Recording Artist. That is simple truth no matter what level you operate at. I see a lot of BS on this forum and it's usually because of the weird mix between unknown producas and established engineers.

If a rapper CAN'T say his verse, then it's poorly written and that's a technical problem and that actually isn't about the Engineer at all. That's a producer's responsibility to call for a re-write and sometimes even suggest what fits- right there on the spot.

Whatever the client wants is what you do. And you find a way to do it seamlessly. When I've had this (strange) type of request, I let the artist do what they want and I simply mute the previously-recorded track soon as I hear the big breath he takes before coming in. If they say in advance: "I want to come in right after I say..." then I'll volume fade right after the cue. There's a bunch of ways to do everything and the simplest way is usually best.

But as far as artistically goes, not being able to rap a full verse

Man, I gotta come back to this. It's like watching a movie and really expecting the set to continue out of eyesight. Only an Emcee who doesn't record much would evaluate the skill of a Rapper based on how they record. A movie is the splicing together of many Perfectly Shot scenes.
99.9% of those scenes are set up. And this may be the big shocker: Some of those people in the movie are pretending to have skills and abilities they don't really possess. Analogous to Rap in every way.
Old 31st December 2010
  #23
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E.rOk.stA's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshall Oliver View Post
..........is wacky McWackington.
Hahahahahaha....
Old 31st December 2010
  #24
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E.rOk.stA's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffin Avid View Post
And this may be the big shocker: Some of those people in the movie are pretending to have skills and abilities they don't really possess. Analogous to Rap in every way.
Rap isn't supposed to be like a movie. That's why it's in the state that it is. It was always supposed to be real, that's what made it big in the first place. Rap was the first reality show, that's why everyone ate it up. LABELS made this music into a glittery, make believe video/cd package and the hookers who are the rappers that play along sold it out a long time ago. Doesn't mean those who are truly skilled can't criticize the wack.

You were right on about the producer/artist relationship. Dirty little secret: Most people cutting "albums" on this forum don't have a producer so someone has to tell them what the deal is. I doubt MG Beats is getting paid by this "client".
Old 31st December 2010
  #25
Gear Nut
 

ya guys im not some proffesional engineer i just do this for fun have a friend recording. Here is one of the songs i think i mastered it too loud lol

YouTube - Kid - Vans
Old 31st December 2010
  #26
Gear Guru
 
rickrock305's Avatar
 

Punching-in not on point?

Being able to rap the entire verse is different from perfecting a verse for a record. There are very few people who can perfectly record a verse in one take.
Old 31st December 2010
  #27
Gear Guru
 
rickrock305's Avatar
 

Punching-in not on point?

Quote:
Originally Posted by E.rOk.stA
Most people cutting "albums" on this forum don't have a producer so someone has to tell them what the deal is. I doubt MG Beats is getting paid by this "client".

Most people on here are the producer, artist, engineer, executive producer, marketing director, web designer, mastering engineer, etc. heh
Old 31st December 2010
  #28
Gear Nut
 
Griffin Avid's Avatar
 

It was always supposed to be real, that's what made it big in the first place.

Not true. Rap started in the realm of the emcee as guy stood on a stage and told creative, clever and entertaining...lies. Nothing was real about it. Reality or message rap was about the truths in the ghetto/hood. The recording technique used had nothing to do with the truthfulness of the content. Never has and never will.

Rap doesn't suck today. Only older cats or throwbacks believe that. It's the same way EVERY Generation feels their era of music is best. Rap is 99.9% (a popular percentage today) fantasy. If you make it far enough, you can make your fantasy your reality and most find out that's a bad idea.

I'd like to hear your definition of Truly Skilled. If you mean truly skilled EMCEE then you mean live performance and rocking the crowd. If you mean a skilled Rapper or Recording Artist then it's back to the movie idea.


Just because you can show MC skill- like freestyle or off-the-head or battle rhyme or whatever doesn't mean you can make entertaining recordings. And just because you can make some big songs doesn't guarantee you can entertain a crowd without your records backing you up.


Two different skill-sets. This thread was about a session which puts it squarely in the realm of recording and not a lyricist or spitter.
Old 31st December 2010
  #29
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffin Avid View Post
It was always supposed to be real, that's what made it big in the first place.

Not true. Rap started in the realm of the emcee as guy stood on a stage and told creative, clever and entertaining...lies. Nothing was real about it. Reality or message rap was about the truths in the ghetto/hood. The recording technique used had nothing to do with the truthfulness of the content. Never has and never will.

Rap doesn't suck today. Only older cats or throwbacks believe that. It's the same way EVERY Generation feels their era of music is best. Rap is 99.9% (a popular percentage today) fantasy. If you make it far enough, you can make your fantasy your reality and most find out that's a bad idea.

I'd like to hear your definition of Truly Skilled. If you mean truly skilled EMCEE then you mean live performance and rocking the crowd. If you mean a skilled Rapper or Recording Artist then it's back to the movie idea.


Just because you can show MC skill- like freestyle or off-the-head or battle rhyme or whatever doesn't mean you can make entertaining recordings. And just because you can make some big songs doesn't guarantee you can entertain a crowd without your records backing you up.


Two different skill-sets. This thread was about a session which puts it squarely in the realm of recording and not a lyricist or spitter.
i completely agree with this
Old 31st December 2010
  #30
Gear Maniac
 
threesymbol's Avatar
 

Punching-in not on point?

You are all funny!! You are making fun of each other over preferences.... 2 bar punches, hearing vocals before the punch...

OP - I don't use Cubase but since it is non linear/non destructive you shouldn't need two tracks unless you want to hear vocals overlapping. If the punch is early just slide the region back to restore the other regions audio.
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