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Real Talk: Us veteran Producers, Studio Musicians, Sound Designers and Engineers....
Old 23rd December 2010
  #1
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Real Talk: Us veteran Producers, Studio Musicians, Sound Designers and Engineers....

Should seriously consider mentoring local GearSlutz to help usher in the next generation of music professionals.

I think it's safe to publicly say that DJ Kev West will be taken under my production wing in the near future because he already displays the maturity it takes to do this for a living. Sure a message board is cool but this is also a business that is based on the synergy of human interaction as well as creativity and if my 25 Years of professional experience in this business can help another person achieve their goals in some form or fashion, then who am I to deny them mentoring?

When I was growing up in this industry I was lucky to work with and learn directly from industry legends like Howie Tee, Chubb Rock, Professor Paul, Bob Power, Shane Faber, Bob Brockman, Rich July and Ted Currier to name a few so why not pass along some of that knowledge to someone I recognize will use it responsibly?

I'm in no way trying to say you should do this or you're obligated or anything remotely like that, but I think it's something to seriously consider.
Old 23rd December 2010
  #2
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Should seriously consider mentoring local GearSlutz to help usher in the next generation of music professionals.

I think it's safe to publicly say that DJ Kev West will be taken under my production wing in the near future because he already displays the maturity it takes to do this for a living. Sure a message board is cool but this is also a business that is based on the synergy of human interaction as well as creativity and if my 25 Years of professional experience in this business can help another person achieve their goals in some form or fashion, then who am I to deny them mentoring?

When I was growing up in this industry I was lucky to work with and learn directly from industry legends like Howie Tee, Chubb Rock, Professor Paul, Bob Power, Shane Faber, Bob Brockman, Rich July and Ted Currier to name a few so why not pass along some of that knowledge to someone I recognize will use it responsibly?

I'm in no way trying to say you should do this or you're obligated or anything remotely like that, but I think it's something to seriously consider

I agree wholeheartedly and would like to add that if anyone i interested in working with a hungry 15 year old in London, hit me up!
Old 23rd December 2010
  #3
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rickrock305's Avatar
 

Real Talk: Us veteran Producers, Studio Musicians, Sound Designers and Engineers....

Quote:
Originally Posted by folb695


I agree wholeheartedly and would like to add that if anyone i interested in working with a hungry 15 year old in London, hit me up!

And here's a perfect example of what NOT to do. Noone is gonna hit you up to mentor you. In fact that's just insulting. If you truly want to be mentored, you need to put in some work and show some dedication to seek someone out. Ken Lewis had a great post about this.

That bein said, when interns and assistants show they want to learn or ask questions, I'm glad to teach some things and explain how or why I do what I do. I consider myself a pretty bad teacher, but I try lol
Old 23rd December 2010
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by folb695 View Post
I agree wholeheartedly and would like to add that if anyone i interested in working with a hungry 15 year old in London, hit me up!
Young man, You need to realize that you have to be tactful and express your eagerness to learn by stating it in another fashion. What RickRock said is so true no one is going to come to you, you have to go to them and be respectful about it. Perhaps try finding out who on Gearslutz is in London and write them in a sincere manner that displays a much better attitude.

Not telling you what to do, but this is what I advise.
Old 23rd December 2010
  #5
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tss 15 years old and your guys are talking about insults when lil dude jus sayin hit me up... smh...folb695 listen, old dudes always want to put you down unless your sucking up to them because they dont know you might be the future when their time is about to pass, you dont need them, they should be showing respect when you come correct.
Old 23rd December 2010
  #6
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Kado Avant's Avatar
 

Great concept and idea Pete. Anyone lucky enough to mentor under you will definitely benefit. Hopefully, others of your experience and stature will extend a helping hand also.
Old 23rd December 2010
  #7
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rickrock305's Avatar
 

Real Talk: Us veteran Producers, Studio Musicians, Sound Designers and Engineers....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nahuel
tss 15 years old and your guys are talking about insults when lil dude jus sayin hit me up... smh...folb695 listen, old dudes always want to put you down unless your sucking up to them because they dont know you might be the future when their time is about to pass, you dont need them, they should be showing respect when you come correct.
Way to completely miss the point.

Nobody is putting him down, quite the opposite actually. Both myself and Pete gave the dude quality advice.

Respect is earned, not given. Lookin for a handout is not the way.
Old 23rd December 2010
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickrock305 View Post
Way to completely miss the point.

Nobody is putting him down, quite the opposite actually. Both myself and Pete gave the dude quality advice.

Respect is earned, not given. Lookin for a handout is not the way.
No, that's not an advice, that's contempt, and respect is due, especially to kids. What you beleive is "the way" might not be the right thing for him. I hate that "you have to take **** before you earn my respect" type of mentality, way to generate assholes.

Whatever.

Best wishes to Kev West.
Old 23rd December 2010
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nahuel View Post
No, that's not an advice, that's contempt, and respect is due, especially to kids. What you beleive is "the way" might not be the right thing for him. I hate that "you have to take **** before you earn my respect" type of mentality, way to generate assholes.

Whatever.

Best wishes to Kev West.
I'm not trying to argue with you, because I forget the internet has no tone. But if you think anyone was being contemptuous, you are way off base. We both explained to the young man in two different styles the same thing, no one is going to go to a kid. Because kids his age are often fickle, no one who do what we do for a living wants to waste time. The kid has to show he has a true respect of himself and his goals by showing respect to those he wishes to learn from. This way his prospective mentor can see that he is in fact worth investing the time and energy that it takes show them the ropes.

When I wanted to learn how to be a master turntablist, I had to go to Professor Paul to be my Mentor just like Hot97's DJ Enuff, DJ AD, DJ Jiv Pos, DJ Majesty, Tumbling Dice, and so many other DJs that had the opportunity to learn from Paul in his basement.

Diddy was Andre Harrell's intern before he became a VP. Irv Gotti while managing Mic Geronimo was Lyor Cohen's personal messenger before he became A&R at Def Jam, Steve Stoute was Kid 'N' Play's road manager's assistant before he got a job at Interscope as a A&R rep. You think someone just handed these successful people their success? No. They had to go and get interviewed like everyone else, and part of that is they had to go to those people in a respectful manner.
Old 23rd December 2010
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Marriott View Post
I'm not trying to argue with you
let's do this, I just call a spade a spade, I mean read post #3,
15 years old kid:
-I'm hungry, hit me up!"

angry dude:

-that's just insulting, you should not bla bla..

lol smh

peace I'm out.
Old 23rd December 2010
  #11
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it's hard to read tone on the internet, a lot i believe comes down to mindset, attitude and how the reader is feeling at the time. it is near impossible to know how it was meant to come across... personally i found it not angry or insulting at all, but then again everything is perception isn't it?
Old 23rd December 2010
  #12
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Stoneface's Avatar
 

I say if you' know someone who's talented, passionate and mature enough to listen, learn and follow directions and you're in a position to guide them, you should. Without question!

Isn't that also the point of this forum? Are we all doing our part to meet that challenge?
Old 23rd December 2010
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nahuel View Post
let's do this, I just call a spade a spade, I mean read post #3,
15 years old kid:
-I'm hungry, hit me up!"

angry dude:

-that's just insulting, you should not bla bla..

lol smh

peace I'm out.
If the kid doesn't even put in enough effort to actually contact people how do you think that's going to play out in a studio situation? Do you think when marketing yourself leaving virtually no information about yourself or what you are interested in is a good idea? His age doesn't matter; it's what he posted. Mu****az don't even need to pick up a phone anymore and dude is like "HIT ME UP DAWG." Please.
Old 23rd December 2010
  #14
Lives for gear
 

Huh?

I thought the OP was out. Dramatic exit in Dean's thread.
Reminds me of the OKP debacle.

Is Dean still ghost?
Old 23rd December 2010
  #15
Gear Guru
 
rickrock305's Avatar
 

Real Talk: Us veteran Producers, Studio Musicians, Sound Designers and Engineers....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nahuel
No, that's not an advice, that's contempt, and respect is due, especially to kids. What you beleive is "the way" might not be the right thing for him. I hate that "you have to take **** before you earn my respect" type of mentality, way to generate assholes.
.
Nah man, no contempt or anger at all. Respect is due? For what? Sorry homie, respect is something that is earned, not given. Yes, you do have to do something before my respect is given. At the very least don't expect **** to be handed to you.

I'm not giving him ****, I'm giving him advice. "the way" in regards to the subject at hand is not to expect people to "hit you up" if you want a mentor. Same goes for anything really. If you want to get a job, do you tell thenmanager at Mcdonalds to hit you up? No. In life you have you have to show some drive and dedication to get to where you want to be, not sit back and expect it to be handed to you. This is great advice for a 15 year old kid, because it applies to life in general and not just music.

Successful people don't sit back and wait for opportunity to come to them. They go create the opportunity for themselves
Old 23rd December 2010
  #16
Real Talk: Us veteran Producers, Studio Musicians, Sound Designers and Engineers....

I've found that 99.9% of people find out that it's not something that can be given or taught in 3 days and now "super"(bad) eng/prod's or give up.
Old 23rd December 2010
  #17
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CRACKPIPE's Avatar
 

I'll mentor yall. First come over and wash my car. I got some other chores for you as well, then we'll get to some studio business.
Old 23rd December 2010
  #18
Gear Maniac
 

first off, I would like to say that I have made great efforts to get in contact with people in london on the hip hop forum to no avail.... so before you judge and let your pre conceived notions of how lazy young people are take over maybe you should have asked me....

secondly the comment was meant in flippant way maybe as a reaction to the fact that no one will help me, oh the irony....

the internet has no tone so people make their own, any thing that said here will be taken by whoever reads it and they will make it their own, so enjoy... i will just read from now on...
Old 23rd December 2010
  #19
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Storyville's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by folb695 View Post
first off, I would like to say that I have made great efforts to get in contact with people in london on the hip hop forum to no avail.... so before you judge and let your pre conceived notions of how lazy young people are take over maybe you should have asked me....

secondly the comment was meant in flippant way maybe as a reaction to the fact that no one will help me, oh the irony....

the internet has no tone so people make their own, any thing that said here will be taken by whoever reads it and they will make it their own, so enjoy... i will just read from now on...
I totally dig it. It's frustrating trying to get into this business. Hell, I'm in the business and it's still frustrating. I have a list of phone calls, follow ups, and people to email - and the list grows and changes everyday. And woahest be to me if I shalt forget to follow up with somebody.

Rick's advice is still just as true, no matter how many times you have been turned down. Saying "come to me" will never get anyone to reach out. You can still say it as much as you'd like - but - just don't expect results.

Tone is a weird thing on the net - I took it as a tongue in cheek comment. Humorous, but with an underlying truth to it. I didn't perceive any arrogance for what it's worth.
Old 24th December 2010
  #20
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heh Shouldn't we ask the 15yr old about himself before jumping to conclusions?
Maybe he is putting in work and/or a true interest. Maybe not. But we should ask before posting opinions. If he's not "true" then blast him.

good thread topic Pete.
Old 24th December 2010
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickrock305 View Post
Nah man, no contempt or anger at all. Respect is due? For what? Sorry homie, respect is something that is earned, not given. Yes, you do have to do something before my respect is given. At the very least don't expect **** to be handed to you.

I'm not giving him ****, I'm giving him advice. "the way" in regards to the subject at hand is not to expect people to "hit you up" if you want a mentor. Same goes for anything really. If you want to get a job, do you tell thenmanager at Mcdonalds to hit you up? No. In life you have you have to show some drive and dedication to get to where you want to be, not sit back and expect it to be handed to you. This is great advice for a 15 year old kid, because it applies to life in general and not just music.

Successful people don't sit back and wait for opportunity to come to them. They go create the opportunity for themselves
+1
Old 24th December 2010
  #22
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MAKE IT HAPPEN

but

make sure you make the right things happen at the right time as making anything happen just for the sake of making something happen often doesn't make it happen, rather it just spins tires. life is short, taking the time to get it right, whatever it is be it a decision or even a simple edit, will save that time and more trying to fix or change what you get wrong.
Old 24th December 2010
  #23
Gear Guru
 
rickrock305's Avatar
 

Real Talk: Us veteran Producers, Studio Musicians, Sound Designers and Engineers....

Quote:
Originally Posted by folb695
first off, I would like to say that I have made great efforts to get in contact with people in london on the hip hop forum to no avail.... so before you judge and let your pre conceived notions of how lazy young people are take over maybe you should have asked me....
Nobody was judging you. In fact my original comments weren't even directed at you personally, more as general advice to others who may be reading.

Quote:
Originally Posted by folb695
secondly the comment was meant in flippant way maybe as a reaction to the fact that no one will help me, oh the irony....
Have you thought about why that is, why noone will help you?

Again, I highly recommend searching for Ken Lewis' post on this because he explained it very well. Basically, you can't approach professionals with your hand out saying "help me". Now before you take this personal, I'm not assuming this is what you did. But lemme ask, what did you offer these people? Did you offer anything in return for their knowledge? Some people pay for it, some people work for it. But nothing in life worth having is ever free or easy to get. Youre gonna have to pay with your time or money or labor or something

Did you approach these people professionally? Being that you're 15, I'm going to assume not. Most 15 year olds don't know the first thing about being professional. So give me an example, how do you approach someone looking for an internship or as a mentor? Do you have a resume? Do you format your emails in a professional format?

I started in this business as an intern. I called and went to and bunch of studios with my resume in hand. I worked for free for a year after paying tens of thousands of dollars for school. It cost me a **** load of time and money. But it got my foot in the door. Then I had to prove myself by being knowledgable yet realizing I don't know much at all. Basically, shutting up an listening yet stepping up when I had to. Some talented engineers recognized this and taught me a lot of what i know today. And eventually after a lot of hard work that got me to the point of working with some real legends in this business.

I'm telling you this so you know that I've been through the process, I know what it takes to get an internship and mentor situation goin and how to take that to the next level. Noone is going to give you anything. People that are successful in this business have worked too hard and spent way too many hours to just give up their knowledge for free. That knowledge is worth a lot, and you need to be offering something in return for it.
Old 24th December 2010
  #24
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by folb695 View Post
first off, I would like to say that I have made great efforts to get in contact with people in london on the hip hop forum to no avail.... so before you judge and let your pre conceived notions of how lazy young people are take over maybe you should have asked me....

secondly the comment was meant in flippant way maybe as a reaction to the fact that no one will help me, oh the irony....

the internet has no tone so people make their own, any thing that said here will be taken by whoever reads it and they will make it their own, so enjoy... i will just read from now on...
I don't think anyone called you lazy, but I can feel your frustration. Message boards can be messy sometimes. Now let me ask you this; have you attempted pounding the pavement in London, by going to all the studios you can find with your resume and a CD-R of your material with a cover letter stating that you'd like to become an intern?

I produced my first record when I was your age and what sold the label on me was not my experience or my talent but my drive and ambition. They saw that within me and trusted me to manage a recording budget. I'm quite sure a studio's traffic manager would be impressed if you were a walk in who demonstrated that you want to become a pro just by showing with your youthful energy, drive and ambition.
Old 24th December 2010
  #25
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by folb695
first off, I would like to say that I have made great efforts to get in contact with people in london on the hip hop forum to no avail.... so before you judge and let your pre conceived notions of how lazy young people are take over maybe you should have asked me....

secondly the comment was meant in flippant way maybe as a reaction to the fact that no one will help me, oh the irony....

the internet has no tone so people make their own, any thing that said here will be taken by whoever reads it and they will make it their own, so enjoy... i will just read from now on...
no you don't want to just read from now on. the internet is crazy man, people read so much into stuff that they end up thinking you meant one thing when you mean something totally else and no one usually seeks clarification so you just kind of have to accept it, at the end of the day though most people are pretty forgiving because of it...

ricrock makes some good points. not to make this all about folb695 but at 15 i think you might be looking at it this all wrong. Save some money and go record an album or EP or whatever in a studio, but do your research first. We never learned more then doing precisely this and i highly recommend it, as i do experimenting on your own.

You will learn a lot, more then any school most likely and maybe open up some further opportunities for yourself, and support what you are wanting to get into.

You need to do this while your life allows it, at some point it may become unrealistic for you to work an internship, or you may get saddled with things that don't easily allow for changes etc.

You must take advantage when your health allows you, BUT, also make sure you are smart about it as i have learned that making the wrong decision can jeopardize many years that you will never get back....

about the ignoring thing... even when you are willing to pay someone in this biz, they might still ignore you, it's happened to us quite a few times, so you really need to assume you will be ignored all the time so when you aren't it's really satisfying...
Old 24th December 2010
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Greenway View Post
How would you know whats right and whats the wrong way to do?


"Nobody gets to know the one right way, till they do the wrong ones"

Since we have RJD2 in the house i find this to be the perfect quote.
well, you never really know for sure, it will always be a leap of faith of some kind.

but

INSTINCT

trust the gut, always.

i'm just saying, from experience, don't succumb to pressure to do something just because, make sure it's right, by using that feeling in the gut.

...we could also have two very different ideas of what we are talking about and meaning here...
Old 24th December 2010
  #27
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Storyville's Avatar
I'll give away a few secrets - maybe I shouldn't. But I will and if I regret it I'll delete the post.

When I hire an intern, I'm looking for three things - 1. Humility. 2. Usefulness. 3. Drive.

Humility is paramount because I can't teach anyone to anything who isn't willing to listen - and I need someone who is going to be utterly respectful. I try to put interns in the driver's seat, which can be a big deal. An engineering friend of mine hooks me up with his intern from time to time. His name's Carl, and he is humble as can be - never gets in the way, always takes the time to take notes and views every opportunity as meaningful, even if it seems trivial. He'll have his name on an Usher track sometime in the near future - assistant mixing cred if the politics don't get in the way. And he deserves. 18yrs old.

Usefulness is pretty straight forward. There's nothing an intern can really do for me that I can't do for myself. Occasionally an intern does present me with something I never new or thought about - and that's certainly rewarding - but truthfully ya gotta be useful.

Drive. An intern has two options - be an intern and be done with it - or become an irreplaceable member of the team.

If I turn someone down for an internship - I usually write them and let them know. Some people get mad, some people don't respond, some people say "ok, keep me in mind for next time." I have yet to have someone say "ok - what can I do to get to the top of your list next time you have an opening." Anyone who corrects their mistakes, or shows that they will seek to better themselves immediately stands out from the pack.

I also appreciate when someone reaches out to me. I hate putting out ads, it always yields a lot of nonsense which is at best good for a laugh. If someone comes to me that says: A) they respect me for what I've accomplished, and (B) they have a go-getter mind set.

Even if I turn them down, those who reach out do stand out.

Short of the long: If someone turned you down for a position, write to them and say "Hey, I'm 15 - what can I do to make myself a better candidate as an intern in your eyes?" (obviously phrase it better than that). The response will be positive. Promise.









This is what I do on my day off?
Old 24th December 2010
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Storyville View Post

This is what I do on my day off?
haha You are a good man... this place is pretty hard to stay away from though. Quitting smoking is easier
Old 24th December 2010
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Marriott View Post
I think it's safe to publicly say that DJ Kev West will be taken under my production wing in the near future because he already displays the maturity it takes to do this for a living.
I am just going to take a moment to celebrate
Old 24th December 2010
  #30
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KevWest's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nahuel View Post
Best wishes to Kev West.
appriciate it
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