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how do u producers go about arranging from mpc too logic or protools Drum Machines & Samplers
Old 23rd December 2010
  #1
how do u producers go about arranging from mpc too logic or protools

Hey not sure if this has been asked??
But how do u guys go about arranging your finished beats?
meaning how do u go about gettin from the drum machine to logic or protools>? u guys use mutes or do u just cute pieces of the wav file.
Think it would be interesting too see the input people give me on this thread.
Old 23rd December 2010
  #2
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Synthy08's Avatar
 

Most producers who do this even ditch their drum machines and go all digital, Battery 3 is the replacement for the mpc, Kontakt, nexus 2, etc... are the replacement for sound modules.



Old 23rd December 2010
  #3
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Stoneface's Avatar
 

Good question! I hope we get some really good posts from many...IMO this is one of the most under discussed and under developed skills in Hip-Hop.

For me, in Pre-Production, I usually create the arrangement in my head while I'm creating the individual parts. It's the only way for me to come up with the various parts, by "hearing" the song in my head before it's actually created. I will create parts that I know won't be heard until the hook or after the last verse or whatever. I just sort of get in the vibe and can hear the whole song completed. If that makes sense.

Add to that, the live elements which for me I have to outsource, another level of arrangement will occur based on the variables of live instrumentation.

Ultimately, the final arrangement can't be done without full vocals. At this stage you can really get creative and structure the music bed around the vocals. This is truly the fun part and can really show gaps in your production and/or sections that are over-produced. Production to me, is a finished record (one song). This is the stage where everything should gel....this is one spot where we seperate beatmakers from producers.

Just my $0.02
Old 23rd December 2010
  #4
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CRACKPIPE's Avatar
 

I do my arranging in the mpc, triggering samples and synths as well as soft synths.

I record into pro tools synched using midi beat clock or MTC.

I multitrack everything so it helps to only put one sound per sequencer track in the mpc. That way I can solo that track and record multi passes.

That's about it. Everything will be on the grid and I can mix, or add more to my song in the box from there.
Old 23rd December 2010
  #5
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stilts27's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CRACKPIPE View Post
I do my arranging in the mpc, triggering samples and synths as well as soft synths.

I record into pro tools synched using midi beat clock or MTC.

I multitrack everything so it helps to only put one sound per sequencer track in the mpc. That way I can solo that track and record multi passes.

That's about it. Everything will be on the grid and I can mix, or add more to my song in the box from there.
When i was using an MPC thats pretty much how I did it...only used the main stereo outs...

ditched the MP though two months ago...only use Cubase and Logic now with an Axiom Pro...such a better flow for me and easier to maintain my files...
Old 23rd December 2010
  #6
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The Hydrilla's Avatar
 

To increase workflow, i cut out the middleman and jumped straight to my daw sequencer. Everything used to be ASR, but then i started slaving my ASR to Sonar.

Right now, I am sampling through the ASR to my computer and storing everything for instant recall from my hdd to Maschine.
Old 30th December 2010
  #7
hey just wanted to say thanks for the advice.
glad u guys could help me out. lets keep this thread going .
If we can guys.
Old 30th December 2010
  #8
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bossman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Synthy08 View Post
Most producers who do this even ditch their drum machines and go all digital, Battery 3 is the replacement for the mpc, Kontakt, nexus 2, etc... are the replacement for sound modules.



This is the way I do it, and I find it to be the best for workflow.
Old 30th December 2010
  #9
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Synthy08 View Post
Most producers who do this even ditch their drum machines and go all digital, Battery 3 is the replacement for the mpc, Kontakt, nexus 2, etc... are the replacement for sound modules.



Does anybody know what keyboard he's working on?
Old 30th December 2010
  #10
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fistfull View Post
Does anybody know what keyboard he's working on?
Looks like an M-Audio Axiom
Old 1st January 2011
  #11
still use my mpc not sure if i should sell it and just stick to logic and my mac or should i keep it and use it with my logic setup?
hmm kinda confused everyone loves the mpc but am i making a mistake keeping it??
Old 1st January 2011
  #12
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Synthy08's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by skillz31 View Post
still use my mpc not sure if i should sell it and just stick to logic and my mac or should i keep it and use it with my logic setup?
hmm kinda confused everyone loves the mpc but am i making a mistake keeping it??
It takes a little while adjusting going from the Mpc to Logic/Battery setup....but i have yet to hear anyone complain about it after adjusting to the transition.....
Old 1st January 2011
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skillz31 View Post
still use my mpc not sure if i should sell it and just stick to logic and my mac or should i keep it and use it with my logic setup?
hmm kinda confused everyone loves the mpc but am i making a mistake keeping it??
how can anyone but you answer this question?

the first piece of gear i bought was a hardware boss ryhthm machine. messed around with that for a minute and realized it or anything like it wasn't the tool for me. i get my best results using a keyboard and software. it just makes sense to me and fits what i do, but i still have the boss machine and every once and awhile give it a whirl to see what i can do with it, maybe get the brain working differently...

a carpenter will pick up the tool they get the best results with and either keep or sell that which doesn't work. others on the job site may make fun of him/her for not using what they use, but if they and their clients/customers are confident in what they do and satisfied with the results then who cares?
Old 1st January 2011
  #14
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bonusbmusic's Avatar
 

personally i will NEVER ditch hardware. god forbid someone spends a hour tracking. screw software, it sounds like AIR call me old fashioned or whatever but clicking a mouse aint shyyt
Old 1st January 2011
  #15
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Usually people will either arrange a few sequences into a song in the MP and print the whole thing locked to a daw or directly into a 2track recorder. Trackmasters would dump straight loops in one large file and do automation mutes or waveform chops. I have seen other guys arrange all the drops and mutes in the MPC as well. To each his own.


The best hybrid setup IMO is using a MPC strictly as a sampler and controller. You can trigger the MP as a hardware device and also receive midi from the mpc pads. You will need a stereo interface to monitor the MP. When you have all the sequencing done in Logic. You need to solo each MPC midi track in Logic while placing a channel into record or solo. You can also record stems of all the drums and then the samples seperate. I prefer tracking everything out on its own. If you are concerned about the MPC swings you can always import them. I never felt the need to do so although logic doesn't come shipped with loads of quantization templates like Protools. Still you can put them in if you really feel the need.

Overall, I have never liked the idea of using two sequencers at once and logic is far superior and faster then the MPC. It's also hard not to get drift and a lot times things don't sound like they did after tracking everything. Having a master is the only guarantee things will line up exactly right. You can end up chasing a sound based on latency and sync issues. One sequencer at a time.
Old 2nd January 2011
  #16
Gear Head
 

I've found Logic has made my MPC's snares extremely mushy

especially when using the flex mode

protools sounds equally bad at my friends studio

all the classic tracks were mixed down to 2in tape

I plan on doing the same very soon
Old 3rd January 2011
  #17
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by arrowsmith View Post

all the classic tracks were mixed down to 2in tape

I plan on doing the same very soon
i was saving for a STUDER A80 1/2" last year. found one nice and shiny machine on an auction (nearby) but someone else bought it a few days too early- I spent that money on other slutty but 20 yrs newer stuff. dfegad
Old 3rd January 2011
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skillz31 View Post
Hey not sure if this has been asked??
But how do u guys go about arranging your finished beats?
meaning how do u go about gettin from the drum machine to logic or protools>? u guys use mutes or do u just cute pieces of the wav file.
Think it would be interesting too see the input people give me on this thread.
I use the MPC to do all my arrangments, and never do the arranging in the PT. The MPC is a computer it works just like if you have PT but it works in midi block format, and you can move and copy and paste on the MPC just like in PT. I then Track out 10 tracks simultaneously into Protools then do the mixing in PT. The MPC has the best sequencer on the planet, I can not make the tracks in PT that I would like, like how I make them in the MPC2000xl. One of my tricks when using my MPC to make music is, when I do sounds like strings, pads, bass lines etc, I don't sample them into the MPC. I open up PT and open up a track there and turn on the MPC let the drums rocks and play by hand on my keyboards into PT and set the bpm at the same tempo as my mpc is and play live into PT. See this way the sound doesn't miss any bits when I transfer over to the MPC on a pad. What I do is then bounce that 4 bar of what I played onto my zip disk and take that zip disk and put it in the MPC and it sounds just amazing as when I did it in PT. See I don't want to sample in and lose a bit or to, then track out analog into my Yamaha O2R again and lose a bit or to. My O2R AD/DA convertors are nice and warm with punch so when I track out into PT the sound just sounds so amazing. So basically I found a way to almost stay in the box 98.9% using my MPC :-)

Once I am in Protools the other magic happens. Editing is sick in PT, I do all my drops, mutes, automation, eqing, compression, gating etc in PT. It becomes so easy once the track is in PT and it's lovely.

I am not going to go all software and use battery or Motu BPM don't need them. I am both hard and software, I never want to depend to much on software I have the best of both worlds. There's no drum machine like the MPC. So that's how I do it.
Old 3rd January 2011
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bonusbmusic View Post
personally i will NEVER ditch hardware. god forbid someone spends a hour tracking. screw software, it sounds like AIR call me old fashioned or whatever but clicking a mouse aint shyyt
Oh my goodness lol I feel you on that. I would never go 100% software. I remember getting stuck for 4 months because Digi didn't get their stuff right. If I didn't have my trusty MPC and hardware modules because I listened to some cat dont' really don't know what he is talking about, I would of been up the creek. There's nothing like hardware! why on earth would I ditch my wonderful MPC. Ask Dark Child would he ditch his, he will look at one like a fool lol He's had the same setup since he been making hits, MPC3000 and a Keyboard and he midi them together. Me I don't use midi with the MPC I play it live because I can play on time and I love it like that.
Old 3rd January 2011
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoneface View Post
For me, in Pre-Production, I usually create the arrangement in my head while I'm creating the individual parts. It's the only way for me to come up with the various parts, by "hearing" the song in my head before it's actually created. I will create parts that I know won't be heard until the hook or after the last verse or whatever. I just sort of get in the vibe and can hear the whole song completed. If that makes sense.

Just my $0.02

You make PERFECT sense!!! Same thing I do, it's great to think it out first in the mind because the mind is infinite and can come up with some unorthodox arrangments instead of a teacher type structure. I like to be on the edge and thick outside the box! This makes ONE THEIR OWN PRODUCER! Great jewel.
Old 3rd January 2011
  #21
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoneface View Post
For me, in Pre-Production, I usually create the arrangement in my head while I'm creating the individual parts. It's the only way for me to come up with the various parts, by "hearing" the song in my head before it's actually created. I will create parts that I know won't be heard until the hook or after the last verse or whatever. I just sort of get in the vibe and can hear the whole song completed. If that makes sense.

Just my $0.02

You make PERFECT sense!!! Same thing I do, it's great to think it out first in the mind because the mind is infinite and can come up with some unorthodox arrangments instead of a teacher type structure. I like to be on the edge and thick outside the box! This makes ONE THEIR OWN PRODUCER! Great jewel.
Old 3rd January 2011
  #22
Gear Head
 
DUB13's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Igotsoul4u View Post
Overall, I have never liked the idea of using two sequencers at once and logic is far superior and faster then the MPC. It's also hard not to get drift and a lot times things don't sound like they did after tracking everything. Having a master is the only guarantee things will line up exactly right. You can end up chasing a sound based on latency and sync issues. One sequencer at a time.
Is there a way to avoid the 'drifting' problem?
I have been noticing sometimes my drums drift in logic/pro tools after I have tracked them in. It's like the track loses a bit of the swing/feel that I achieved before tracking into the daw.
I sync it up but it never sounds perfect when it is in the box...quite frustrating
Are there any settings in logic to ensure the timing is synced perfectly?
Old 3rd January 2011
  #23
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I generally get the basic beat started on my MPC/Hardware synths, track it into Pro Tools then arrange and add additional synths, guitars, bass etc in Pro Tools...using Beat Clock to synch if I use the MPC for additional sequencing.

Side Note:

WILL AVID PLEASE ADD A SHORTCUT TO TOGGLE BEATCLOCK ON/OFF?!?!?!?! That would save me a lot of window shopping mid creation.

But I digress.
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