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My Official NI Maschine Review - Will my MPC survive? Drum Machines & Samplers
Old 15th January 2011
  #241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mannas View Post
To be fair, I can't say that I've heard anything from an MPC that's really blown me away.
Ok,to keep this thread going lol thousands of the classic dance and hip hop tracks for the last 20 years and more have been made using mpc s and akai samplers ect ect!!!!!!There part of the feel of these times (past?)For me for sure.So im sure you have been blown away (probably)
Quote:
I don't think either of you would know if a track was written on an MPC or Maschine tbh.
....I can tell a big difference between say a mp2000 and mp4000 and a maschine for instance.If there in front of me its like chalk and cheese.Contray to popular opinion.I bought maschine and had it sitting next to the mpc4k and man.......lil ole maschine did nt stand a chance for many reasons.(btw,i like to sequence drums outside the comp)Weight to the samples for 1.......
Quote:
Both of these could have been used on almost any track on the billboard top 100 without any of us knowing.
Yes,good music and bad music will be the norm for both machines.But they aint the same.
What i love is every bit of gear ive had over the last 18 years has a different sound feel flavour.Ive owned over 30 samplers.Akais in a way are the most straight,kinda boring ones.BUT their steady workhorses that do what there supposed to do.respect.The 4k is a powerhouse btw.So of course its not going to be killed anytime soon.Probably ever since they've stopped production.Im still waiting for a classic maschine track/album video too.Irie..
Old 15th January 2011
  #242
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Dayl's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mannas View Post
Sorry, that was more the point I was trying to make. Most people would not know either way.
Ah.. good, cheers
Old 17th January 2011
  #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goa-Dubs View Post
....I can tell a big difference between say a mp2000 and mp4000 and a maschine for instance.If there in front of me its like chalk and cheese.Contray to popular opinion.I bought maschine and had it sitting next to the mpc4k and man.......lil ole maschine did nt stand a chance for many reasons.(btw,i like to sequence drums outside the comp)Weight to the samples for 1.......
Let me get this right as I don't want to misquote you. Are you saying if a 3rd party made a track with an MPC 2000...a track with MPC 4000...and a track with Maschine...you could identify which hardware was used on which track?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mannas View Post
To be fair, I can't say that I've heard anything from an MPC that's really blown me away.
Same question to you as well.
Old 17th January 2011
  #244
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No,not exactly.But if im working on a mp2000 i get a certain feel,same with the mp4000.Very different machine.Well maschine is another beast altogether.My take on it is this....They will provide different ends due to many factors.Artistry,the vintage,the feel (pads,sequencer,swing,algorhythms ect ect.)Its no secret that the newer machines are more neutral in their use of samples.I always do exhaustive tests (and have owned a lot of units) rather than finishing tracks.And yes,if i make a beat on one machine and try to duplicate it on another the results are always different.This is progress but it is not always better (using new technology!!)The trend in modern popular styles leans towards brighter,minimal productions.In this context i can tell the difference.If i sat with maschine and worked on it for some time im sure i could make a whole range of cool stuff!!!But i dont choose to btw-unless the new beat machine punches the sample out on its own accord its not worth me messing with as i have that base covered already!!!!!Thats just me.
Old 17th January 2011
  #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goa-Dubs View Post
No,not exactly.But if im working on a mp2000 i get a certain feel,same with the mp4000.Very different machine.Well maschine is another beast altogether.My take on it is this....They will provide different ends due to many factors.Artistry,the vintage,the feel (pads,sequencer,swing,algorhythms ect ect.)Its no secret that the newer machines are more neutral in their use of samples.I always do exhaustive tests (and have owned a lot of units) rather than finishing tracks.And yes,if i make a beat on one machine and try to duplicate it on another the results are always different.This is progress but it is not always better (using new technology!!)The trend in modern popular styles leans towards brighter,minimal productions.In this context i can tell the difference.If i sat with maschine and worked on it for some time im sure i could make a whole range of cool stuff!!!But i dont choose to btw-unless the new beat machine punches the sample out on its own accord its not worth me messing with as i have that base covered already!!!!!Thats just me.
Thanks for clearing that up. I completely agree with you that making a beat on one MPC and then duplicating it on another, the results are very different.

From my experience, the MPC 2000's sequencer (timing correct on) is the "tightest" (for a lack of a better term) than any MPC that I have ever owned (1000, 2000XL, 2500, 3000, 4000, 5000). Even when I made a mistake with my horrible timing, the unintentional result still came out great. I didn't get this with the MPC 4000 (original white models) even when using the same quantize settings. My drum tracks using the 4000 always felt off. I know others have different experiences.
Old 17th January 2011
  #246
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Are we discussing a workstation vs. software controller here
Old 21st January 2011
  #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMeek View Post
Are we discussing a workstation vs. software controller here
No. Maschine is a workstation/sampler/drum machine/sequencer.

MPC is essentially a computer consisting of software and dedicated hardware. Maschine consists of computer software and dedicated hardware.
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Old 27th January 2011
  #248
Gear Addict
Just to chime in my 2 cents worth..
I have had Maschine for a year now and think it's amazing!
I have owned both the MPC 4000 and 2500 previously.
The MPC's do definately add something very "solid" to the sound that I could always hear compared to soft-samplers, but it was always a bit of a pain managing samples and projects when incorporating them within a DAW environment.
However, I now use Maschine mainly in stand alone mode through Pro Tools HD hardware and it sounds FANTASTIC!
I am very excited to try the new 1.6 version as I think it will become my main creative device. Now that McDSP have gone AU and Lexicon have given us native plugin reverbs I can see a very high quality production coming from Maschine alone. I hope NI address the multi core issue stand alone soon as this will make it the ultimate production workstation IMHO
Anyone unsure of Maschines sound, I would highly recommend you try it through a high quality D/A in stand alone mode!
Old 29th January 2011
  #249
Dor
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Dor's Avatar
Throwing 4 high quality effects on a maschine group is amazing. 4 instances on each pad? Even better. The possibilities are mind boggling.
Old 29th January 2011
  #250
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My Official NI Maschine Review - Will my MPC survive?

So when will the fanboy's stop the talking and make classic joint's so this thing enter's the hall of fame?Talk is cheap.......
Old 29th January 2011
  #251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mannas View Post
To be fair, I can't say that I've heard anything from an MPC that's really blown me away. Not saying anything against either one. I'm just saying nothing has really amazed me, and there are a lot of things that I have no clue what they were made on.
DJ Shadow- Endtroducing? There are ridiculous amounts of good/groundbreaking records made with the MPC though. All I meant by that was that the Maschine is a linear progression from the MPC. The MPC was groundbreaking. Putting the sampler with the sequencer and all the other well thought out features really changed things. With every software revsion NI gets closer to making the the prefect MPC-style device, but it's not like the mpc-60 that created a whole new paradigm.

Where the Maschine might prove to be ground breaking is in making the use of effects and automation in the DAW that much easier. I wonder if NI is going to try and compete will a full DAW eventually....

One negative I just thought of though is that Maschine allows for really lazy production. **** sample packs, but people hated on samples for being too easy too heh. And youtube and mp3 sampling are going to become ever more popular. But hell, I've done it, sometimes that's the only place you can find the sound! Maschine of course is easier to use with software synths and worrying about clearing samples blows.

It's interesting Endtroducing used an mpc60 that came out 8 years(?) before it was released. I wonder if people will use Maschine in 8 years? It'll be interesting to see if Maschine 2.0 is just a paid upgrade or if it's new hardware as well.

And again I still think Maschine is great. If you could re-sell the EDU edition I'd buy one now. NI licensing as a whole rubs me the wrong way.

Maybe the MPC perfected the drum sampler interface, but I think some brave soul can still make it better. Well actually, as anyone that uses JJOS knows there are always more features to add!

I'd like to see someone rip off the Ensoniq asr-x pro! Competition is good! Bring on the Arturia Spark! And the LinnDrum II will be interesting!
Old 29th January 2011
  #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foodeater View Post
One negative I just thought of though is that Maschine allows for really lazy production. **** sample packs, but people hated on samples for being too easy too heh. And youtube and mp3 sampling are going to become ever more popular. But hell, I've done it, sometimes that's the only place you can find the sound!
Huh? Everything you said there applies to MPCs and other tools that can sample like Live.
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Old 30th January 2011
  #253
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arcanjoloco's Avatar
 

I´ve been reading this thread for a while and couldn't find the answer to this questions that are crucial about layering drums:

1- Filters, ADSR, and FX on maschine are good ? Any sound quality issues ? I just found people discuss the programming side, but what about the sound ?

I use MPC2500 and I often use 3 drum tracks layered so I can use different filters and envelopes on them. Sometimes I miss something like EQ on a individual pad but at least the MPC filters are good on drums. If I layer 3 kicks on Maschine and want to apply filters and envelopes it will do the job professionally and good sounding or I´ll have to hire VST´s for the job ? If so, I´ll have to touch the mouse and that´s not what I expected to do.

2- About the simult pad feature that´s been discussed here, I find it useless on the MPC2500, cause it just copy one pad to another while recording, when I do corrections like change velocity or position or even delete an event it won't make the changes to the slave pad, so I prefer to finish the main drum track and copy to another 2 tracks when I´m done with programming and start layering. I never used earlier MPC´s that has the ability to filter and ADSR the pad layers without having to link it to another pad. THAT was the **** ! Simult pad sucks. So my question is, the Maschine link pad really link ALL the events from one pad to another, like if I delete an event it will be deleted on the slaved pad ?

And that is not about layering but another important question:

3- Can I control VSTi sound modules in a maschine track ? On MPC I use midi tracks to control VSTi sound modules, and sometimes is good to do this not only for the workflow, but because sometimes you want to use quantize on it and apply the MPC swing on it. Maschine will do a similar thing ?
Old 30th January 2011
  #254
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godphaser's Avatar
 

Quote:
1- Filters, ADSR, and FX on maschine are good ? Any sound quality issues ? I just found people discuss the programming side, but what about the sound ?
I find them good, plus now you can put VST.

Quote:
I use MPC2500 and I often use 3 drum tracks layered so I can use different filters and envelopes on them. Sometimes I miss something like EQ on a individual pad but at least the MPC filters are good on drums. If I layer 3 kicks on Maschine and want to apply filters and envelopes it will do the job professionally and good sounding or I´ll have to hire VST´s for the job ? If so, I´ll have to touch the mouse and that´s not what I expected to do.
Yes you can, without touching the mouse.

Quote:
2- About the simult pad feature that´s been discussed here, I find it useless on the MPC2500, cause it just copy one pad to another while recording, when I do corrections like change velocity or position or even delete an event it won't make the changes to the slave pad, so I prefer to finish the main drum track and copy to another 2 tracks when I´m done with programming and start layering. I never used earlier MPC´s that has the ability to filter and ADSR the pad layers without having to link it to another pad. THAT was the **** ! Simult pad sucks. So my question is, the Maschine link pad really link ALL the events from one pad to another, like if I delete an event it will be deleted on the slaved pad ?
It just links the triggering.


Quote:
3- Can I control VSTi sound modules in a maschine track ? On MPC I use midi tracks to control VSTi sound modules, and sometimes is good to do this not only for the workflow, but because sometimes you want to use quantize on it and apply the MPC swing on it. Maschine will do a similar thing ?
Yes!
Old 31st January 2011
  #255
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arcanjoloco's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by godphaser View Post
It just links the triggering.
I don't understand how this developers miss one of the most important point like drum layering in a workstation for beat production. 4 real, what's the big problem with making drum layering possible inside a pad with independent control of filters and envelope per layer, if they don't even have to make it possible hardware wise like a MPC would have to, since they are native ?

MPC used to have this feature but went a step back after numark owned akai. So I can imagine why they did it, like hardware parts budget (in 6 months I had to replace parts on my MPC2500 that friends don't ever touched in 2 years with a 2000XL, and I´m still having issues, and JJOS is becoming too buggy so we can see that the OS is trying to go in a way that the hardware can't handle, I even think that is becoming dangerous to have a processor overload using JJOS).

But for the native samplers and workstations, not doing drum layering facilities is even more of a EPIC fail IMO. Maybe is because their digital processing on the filters is trash so it won't sound good anyway. IDK
Old 31st January 2011
  #256
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Stoneface's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by arcanjoloco View Post
I don't understand how this developers miss one of the most important point like drum layering in a workstation for beat production. 4 real, what's the big problem with making drum layering possible inside a pad with independent control of filters and envelope per layer, if they don't even have to make it possible hardware wise like a MPC would have to, since they are native ?

MPC used to have this feature but went a step back after numark owned akai. So I can imagine why they did it, like hardware parts budget (in 6 months I had to replace parts on my MPC2500 that friends don't ever touched in 2 years with a 2000XL, and I´m still having issues, and JJOS is becoming too buggy so we can see that the OS is trying to go in a way that the hardware can't handle, I even think that is becoming dangerous to have a processor overload using JJOS).

But for the native samplers and workstations, not doing drum layering facilities is even more of a EPIC fail IMO. Maybe is because their digital processing on the filters is trash so it won't sound good anyway. IDK
Drum layering is overrated...start with good drum hits/samples to begin with and layering is not that big of deal. Pad link, I think is more than enough on Maschine to accomplish this task. My $0.02 thumbsup
Old 31st January 2011
  #257
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i'm in love with the emulation filters.

i always put my drums through the sp1200 filtering
and my vinyl samples through mp60 filtering

its just so lovely; sonically.
Old 31st January 2011
  #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arcanjoloco View Post
But for the native samplers and workstations, not doing drum layering facilities is even more of a EPIC fail IMO. Maybe is because their digital processing on the filters is trash so it won't sound good anyway. IDK
Pad link is drum layering with different EG's Filters FX etc. . . what are you trying to do that you can't do?
Old 31st January 2011
  #259
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godphaser's Avatar
 

If you're a hardcore layering addict, grab FXpansion Geist, it's by far the best software for drum layering, IMHO.
Old 31st January 2011
  #260
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as far as ripping off the asr -x pro that sounds like the beat thang kangz took a shot (how good a shot remains to be seen)

there are defo weight of sound issues with all these software tools they all seem to require extra processing to fatten them up.

also the sp1200/mpc60 emulations are not very good imo perhaps someone could post and a/b of sounds cos the **** sounds the same to me.

also dj shadow intricate ground breaking but ultimately boring elevator music/background music.
Old 1st February 2011
  #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ttone View Post
So when will the fanboy's stop the talking and make classic joint's so this thing enter's the hall of fame?Talk is cheap.......
If you care to look on you tube you can see lots of platinum selling producers who have left the MPC world and now use Maschine.
Old 1st February 2011
  #262
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoneface View Post
Drum layering is overrated...start with good drum hits/samples to begin with and layering is not that big of deal. Pad link, I think is more than enough on Maschine to accomplish this task. My $0.02 thumbsup
where do you think the good drum sounds come from?
Old 1st February 2011
  #263
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Stoneface's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eemo1 View Post
where do you think the good drum sounds come from?
No doubt...but at this point, there are just way too many good drums sounds, layered or otherwise to sweat this issue to the extent of it being a pass or fail for a product, imo. I've got so many kicks, snares...etc., I can't even listen to them all. Again, this is just my perspective. Original point was...pad link should be more than adequate to handle your layering needs. It has for me so far. thumbsup
Old 5th February 2011
  #264
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Aight, I finally bought it. the controller is great... now I'm pretty disapointed by the sequencer, I find it unbeleivable there's no real song mode where you can record a performance to build you song skeletton and edit it... I also highly dislike the only way is to set up a pattern length before hand... comming from ableton live it's like going back to prehistory... I was in hope to find the ultimate beatmaking device (for me) but nope... I will not be using it standalone untill they seriousely improve the seq that's for sure...

Now I'm pretty happy with saintjoe trick to integrate maschine into live (the one where you record all the midi into live)...I also like the ableton controller mode.

So yea my opinion is that the controller is great but the soft is lacking big time, I'm not talking about the sampler, I like it, I also like the fact vst integration will be available soon (I'm not beta testing)... the seq is far too limited at this point IMO.

I'm glad it integrates well with ableton otherwise I'd be pissed off.
Old 5th February 2011
  #265
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E-Maddox's Avatar
 

Quote:
Drum layering is overrated...start with good drum hits/samples to begin with and layering is not that big of deal. Pad link, I think is more than enough on Maschine to accomplish this task. My $0.02
Drum layering is what you do when you want to move beyond what's available or given. In fact the best sounding drums outside of pure acoustic kits are indeed layered. The only way to combine drum personalities is via layering so I have to disagree with you. Be it drums or synths , sound layering is essential part of building a sound.

808s don't have impact and house kicks don't have that deep rumble .Acoustics don't have either. So what do you do if want something from each? You can search or wait to get lucky, looking that perfect hit or you can get to layering and create what you wanted.

Not overrated but under-appreciated IMO.
Old 5th February 2011
  #266
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Stoneface's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by E-Maddox View Post
Drum layering is what you do when you want to move beyond what's available or given. In fact the best sounding drums outside of pure acoustic kits are indeed layered. The only way to combine drum personalities is via layering so I have to disagree with you. Be it drums or synths , sound layering is essential part of building a sound.

808s don't have impact and house kicks don't have that deep rumble .Acoustics don't have either. So what do you do if want something from each? You can search or wait to get lucky, looking that perfect hit or you can get to layering and create what you wanted.

Not overrated but under-appreciated IMO.
I agree with your point...which means you misunderstood mine. I wasn't suggesting that layering is not this sh$t but rather that it doesn't take rocket science and an army of tools to complete the task.
Quote:
Pad link, I think is more than enough on Maschine to accomplish this task. My $0.02
That being said...I can see how I could have worded that better.
Old 5th February 2011
  #267
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E-Maddox's Avatar
 

Quote:
I wasn't suggesting that layering is not this sh$t but rather that it doesn't take rocket science and an army of tools to complete the task.
No doubt. I agree . Sorry for the confusion mate.
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