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My Official NI Maschine Review - Will my MPC survive? Drum Machines & Samplers
Old 10th January 2011
  #211
Gear Head
 

For Your Pads only

Hi I own Mpc 4000 and there is no way I will switch my baby for anything- more than that I am planning to buy either 60 or 3000 or even 2000XL.None the less I am considering buying Maschine but just for pads.
I like making some mixed stuff with pads not the keys.I have checked Korg Kontrol and when hitting two of pads instantaneously they so many times produced unpredicted jams and errors than its not suitabbe for serious production. So I am into Maschine.
Just for the pads.
Future will show if its just for Pads and how it come along with host of my gear The MPC 4000.
Welcome to the MACHINE
Old 10th January 2011
  #212
Gear Maniac
 
E-Maddox's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jahrome View Post
You don't even own Maschine and it seems you have never used an MPC/MV. Otherwise you probably wouldn't feel that improving the sampler would make it bloated.

Maschine is already a multi-sampler. The GUI of NI products are very similar. Improving Maschine sampler so it incorporated Kontakt and Battery functions will not make it cluttered/bloated as you say. Having to add these samplers as plug ins within another sampler (Maschine) could possibly do the opposite IMHO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jahrome View Post


NI created a sampling drum machine and MIDI production center. Which is the same as an MPC and MV. Where's the argument?

You're beginning to sound a bit silly. Let it go man. There is no status or credibility to be gained (or regained) by by this.
Old 10th January 2011
  #213
Lives for gear
[QUOTE=Jahrome;6201416]You don't even own Maschine and it seems you have never used an MPC/MV. Otherwise you probably wouldn't feel that improving the sampler would make it bloated.

Maschine is already a multi-sampler. The GUI of NI products are very similar. Improving Maschine sampler so it incorporated Kontakt and Battery functions will not make it cluttered/bloated as you say./QUOTE]

I STRONGLY disagree. Like I said before if all these "functions" are the priority then your argument should be about VAST vs Maschine because VAST absolutely makes a fool out of a MPC.
Old 10th January 2011
  #214
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wax808's Avatar
 

[QUOTE=RyanC;6202315]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jahrome View Post
You don't even own Maschine and it seems you have never used an MPC/MV. Otherwise you probably wouldn't feel that improving the sampler would make it bloated.

Maschine is already a multi-sampler. The GUI of NI products are very similar. Improving Maschine sampler so it incorporated Kontakt and Battery functions will not make it cluttered/bloated as you say./QUOTE]

I STRONGLY disagree. Like I said before if all these "functions" are the priority then your argument should be about VAST vs Maschine because VAST absolutely makes a fool out of a MPC.

What is this VAST you speak of? I tried to google it but didn't find anything.

My MPC and MV have been pretty arrogant lately, I would love to make a fool of them.
Old 10th January 2011
  #215
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atma's Avatar
i think he's talking about the kurzweil V.A.S.T. sound engine. it's one of the most advanced (hardware) sound manipulation engines and was available in their samplers.
Old 10th January 2011
  #216
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Nahuel's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by atma View Post
i think he's talking about the kurzweil V.A.S.T. sound engine. it's one of the most advanced (hardware) sound manipulation engines and was available in their samplers.
Still available in their latest workstation PC3K8...I'm not a maschine user yet but I dont see how more features could be an issue unless stability is compromised...I'm all for extended features... at least deep integration of komplete instruments with the controller/soft would be great.
Old 10th January 2011
  #217
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wax808's Avatar
 

Ahh ok.. thanks.
Old 11th January 2011
  #218
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Yup kurzweil V.A.S.T.

More features eventually becomes an issue of how you would control them all from the maschine controller. If they were to integrate every parameter from kontakt there would be tons and tons of pages under SRC and most of them would not be used much.

I could see some sort of zoom button for EG's like in omnishpere. . .I just don't want to NI go all reaktor on maschine. It's simplicity is one of it's best "features" IMHO.
Old 11th January 2011
  #219
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Stoneface's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanC View Post
It's simplicity is one of it's best "features" IMHO.
Agreed! thumbsup
Old 11th January 2011
  #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanC View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jahrome View Post
You don't even own Maschine and it seems you have never used an MPC/MV. Otherwise you probably wouldn't feel that improving the sampler would make it bloated.

Maschine is already a multi-sampler. The GUI of NI products are very similar. Improving Maschine sampler so it incorporated Kontakt and Battery functions will not make it cluttered/bloated as you say.
I STRONGLY disagree. Like I said before if all these "functions" are the priority then your argument should be about VAST vs Maschine because VAST absolutely makes a fool out of a MPC.
Nothing wrong with strongly disagreeing...though I am not sure with what you disagree with. But that's ok as well.

GUI of NI products such as Maschine, Battery, and Kontakt are similar such as the browser, waveform editor, key map editor, synth parameters, etc. So giving Maschine more amp envelope types, filter modes, additional LFOs, improved sample editing, more effect types, etc., would not make Maschine any more cumbersome. NI stated in their "On the Record' threads that these are low priority items. Someone (I forgot who) said that some of these are being worked on (awesome if true).

Based upon the info that was released about 1.6, NI's direction seems to make Maschine more of a production workstation with VST support, more effects, and more audio inputs/outputs; a better drum machine with pad link feature; and better sequencer with improved swing, scene duplication, and drag/drop rearrangement of scenes and patterns. Great. And to be honest, I can live without the synth improvements since I already own Battery 3, Motu Mach 5, and Emulator X plug-in samplers. The same is true when I use an MPC since I connect these products to it via MIDI. This is just a feature request to revamp Maschine's sampler so I wouldn't need to use a sampler within another sampler. My MPC will survive on life-support if I had these functions.

As far as VAST...not relevant to this discussion....those keyboards are not drum machines, are limited samplers, and have nothing that would entice me to choose them over any workstation I have ever purchased.

http://www.sonicstate.com/news/2011/...eyboard-ships/

No thank you. lol I would rather buy Motif XF or another Fantom G.
Old 11th January 2011
  #221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanC View Post
Yup kurzweil V.A.S.T.

More features eventually becomes an issue of how you would control them all from the maschine controller. If they were to integrate every parameter from kontakt there would be tons and tons of pages under SRC and most of them would not be used much.

I could see some sort of zoom button for EG's like in omnishpere. . .I just don't want to NI go all reaktor on maschine. It's simplicity is one of it's best "features" IMHO.
This is not exactly the case as I wrote above. However, let's say I agree with you and it is the case. With VST support of Kontakt within Maschine, how would it be any different? I have tons and tons of Kontakt pages that I can't control using Maschine's hardware. If Maschine had more pages that a user doesn't need, simply choose not to visit that page. Also..while this thread is very long, if you go back to what I originally stated...I didn't mean to imply every single function in Battery and Kontakt should be in Maschine. I made specific requests that are basic sampler features of products created over the past 10 years. I know some of you are irked for me mentioning this..but simply see the MV-8800, MPC 4000, and MPC 5000 for the specs/features that would be ideal in Maschine. NI can implement them the best way they see fit...if they choose to do so.
Old 11th January 2011
  #222
Lives for gear
OK whatever VAST is not the point, for the record it is quite a bit more then a "limited sampler" but yeah that's a different thread.

If maschine has 5 mod EG's, and 4 LFO's and each one with 2 to 3 times as many parameters as what it has now, that would require as much as 30+ pages under the SRC tab more then what is there now. Granted it would be possible to do something like a simple layer and an expert layer and I would be all for it, as long as the speed of the simple layer isn't lost. The main thing here is for NI to take their time and integrate these things as smoothly as possible.

But what I also read is a number of people (which you seem to maybe be a part of that group?) that wants maschine to grow into GVI/Kontakt/mach5. This is what I disagree with. If they turn it into a jack of all trades instead of the master of the drum "maschine" trade, I for one would be disappointed. If they focus on features that are useful for drum machines, they can get closer and closer. If they are endlessly trying to create everyones magic all in one box they probably wont ever get anywhere close.

You said on the maschine forum that it shouldn't turn into something that you cant use the hardware to control? Well. . .where does the line get drawn?
Old 12th January 2011
  #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanC View Post
.

If maschine has 5 mod EG's, and 4 LFO's and each one with 2 to 3 times as many parameters as what it has now, that would require as much as 30+ pages under the SRC tab more then what is there now. Granted it would be possible to do something like a simple layer and an expert layer and I would be all for it, as long as the speed of the simple layer isn't lost. The main thing here is for NI to take their time and integrate these things as smoothly as possible.

But what I also read is a number of people (which you seem to maybe be a part of that group?) that wants maschine to grow into GVI/Kontakt/mach5. This is what I disagree with. If they turn it into a jack of all trades instead of the master of the drum "maschine" trade, I for one would be disappointed. If they focus on features that are useful for drum machines, they can get closer and closer. If they are endlessly trying to create everyones magic all in one box they probably wont ever get anywhere close.

You said on the maschine forum that it shouldn't turn into something that you cant use the hardware to control? Well. . .where does the line get drawn?
Who implied that Maschine needs 4 LFOs and 30 pages of other parameters. None of the samplers I mentioned have anywhere near 30 pages of synth parameters.

An MPC has 6 function keys and maximum of 6 pages for sound shaping. Maschine has 8 function keys...and just like an MPC has 6 pages for sound shaping. So that tells you that you can fit more synth parameters within Maschine and have complete control from its hardware. I have never heard anyone say that an MPC or MV does too much.

The software samplers I have mentioned such as Kontakt and Battery also do not have 30 pages of synth parameters. They are pretty close to Maschine and adding the things I suggested will not add many more pages. They way Maschine is currently designed, the pages are hidden until you scroll through them with the left and right cursor keys. I believe everything I have mentioned can be fit on 6-8 pages if done correctly and have full control from its hardware (see MPC or MV).

Just for kicks...my Fantom G's Patch Pro Edit has 19 pages of synth parameters. Its pretty deep for sound shaping...all hands on control...no mouse needed...not complicated or bloated...and some users still want more. lol
Old 12th January 2011
  #224
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atma's Avatar
the kurzweil V.A.S.T. engine is not limited.. you can do more creative sound-shaping with a kurzweil sampler than pretty much any other sampler ever made.
Old 12th January 2011
  #225
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by halfguard View Post
does machine have all the sound mangling things like battery?
Lets put it this way. I have both Maschine and Battery and I find I do a lot more sound sculpting and manipulation in maschine than I ever did in battery.

With maschine its the ease of use that is the killer as far as IM concerned, its a truly inspirational tool as far as I'm concerned.

Also with 1.6 coming out you will be able to plug in things like NI's deep freq & deep transformations to the FX slots for some truly messed up sounds
Old 12th January 2011
  #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lord toranaga View Post
I am waiting for gen2 maschine.
Its out on beta next week. Its called version 1.6
Old 12th January 2011
  #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AikiGhost View Post
Lets put it this way. I have both Maschine and Battery and I find I do a lot more sound sculpting and manipulation in maschine than I ever did in battery.
That just sounds like you wasted what you have in Battery...IMHO of course. Battery 3 as a VST within Maschine OS 1.6 is what I am looking forward to....
Old 12th January 2011
  #228
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Stoneface's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AikiGhost View Post
Its out on beta next week. Its called version 1.6
Do you have any confirmation of this?
Old 13th January 2011
  #229
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
We are generally not exhibiting at trade shows like NAMM anymore. The public beta test of Maschine 1.6 might start sometime around or shortly after this show starts, but that timing is just coincidental.
That was from Jens @ NI on the Maschine forums. I'm sure the key word is might but still great news.
Old 13th January 2011
  #230
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Stoneface's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mannas View Post
That was from Jens @ NI on the Maschine forums. I'm sure the key word is might but still great news.
Yeah...it will be here before you know it. I would rather they wait and get it right than rush it and have alot of bugs to deal with. Super excited though...is really going to make life easier.
Old 13th January 2011
  #231
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoneface View Post
Yeah...it will be here before you know it. I would rather they wait and get it right than rush it and have alot of bugs to deal with. Super excited though...is really going to make life easier.
I know! I'm not crazy about a lot of the internal instruments in Maschine so this will give me a chance to bring it all together with other plugins I prefer.

You're exactly right. No reason to rush it. Make sure it's good and then put it out. Everyone knows it's on the horizon so no big deal for me. I'll wait.
Old 14th January 2011
  #232
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IM WHO YOU THINK's Avatar
 

I try to buy the best of technology. I have an MPC 4k AND a Kurzweil K2500r. You guys are sleeping on the K2500 and VAST.
Old 14th January 2011
  #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IM WHO YOU THINK View Post
I try to buy the best of technology. I have an MPC 4k AND a Kurzweil K2500r. You guys are sleeping on the K2500 and VAST.
I don't think too many people will be talking about VAST if Korg's Kronos is priced under $3000 US.
Old 14th January 2011
  #234
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IM WHO YOU THINK's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jahrome View Post
I don't think too many people will be talking about VAST if Korg's Kronos is priced under $3000 US.
I have an oasys right next to me as I type this and I STILL use my K2500r (though it pisses me off b/c the ffx are broken and make a bunch of noises. I just turn the effects off).
Old 14th January 2011
  #235
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Anyone feel the MPC is good for keeping in the zone? Getting music into my DAW really makes me hate the 1000 a little. But less options means less distractions. No which of my 5000 samples to use. No loading vsts. I plan in advance with the 1000 and sit down and crank it out. For me Maschine was one step forward, one step back. No Maschine users talk about this, but it mattered a lot for me.

No offense to anyone, but I haven't heard music made with Maschine that's blown me away so far. That is I haven't heard anything and thought "how'd they find the time to do that?!" or "what tool did they use? It's amazing."

If you want the "now sound" the MPC will get you there. Much of what to get depends on what you already have and budget. Poor young kid starting out with a computer and no audio interface to track into? Maschine is really the only option for many. It's amazing for the price.

The Maschine is probably going to change what's popular though and force people to buy one if they want to stay current. I mean I'm into way more rhythms and sounds than just hip-hop beats. When I make IDM/weird electronics and use tons of plugins, automation, etc. I really appreciate the the Maschine and that's why I'll get one eventually. I think in a few years this is where we're really gonna hear hip-hop sounds change 'cause it's gonna be super easy for kids to get fresh sounds. Or we could be like Kayne and sample aphex twin.

I still have an easier time getting songs completed on the mpc though.

If it could be used standalone as a sequencer I'd get one today. 1gb non-volatile flash memory.That's it. I don't need a sample recorder. Effects would only be a nice bonus.

I also don't make music for clients and the Maschine would be great for that.
Old 14th January 2011
  #236
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Stoneface's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by foodeater View Post
Anyone feel the MPC is good for keeping in the zone? Getting music into my DAW really makes me hate the 1000 a little. But less options means less distractions. No which of my 5000 samples to use. No loading vsts. I plan in advance with the 1000 and sit down and crank it out. For me Maschine was one step forward, one step back. No Maschine users talk about this, but it mattered a lot for me.

No offense to anyone, but I haven't heard music made with Maschine that's blown me away so far. That is I haven't heard anything and thought "how'd they find the time to do that?!" or "what tool did they use? It's amazing."

If you want the "now sound" the MPC will get you there. Much of what to get depends on what you already have and budget. Poor young kid starting out with a computer and no audio interface to track into? Maschine is really the only option for many. It's amazing for the price.

The Maschine is probably going to change what's popular though and force people to buy one if they want to stay current. I mean I'm into way more rhythms and sounds than just hip-hop beats. When I make IDM/weird electronics and use tons of plugins, automation, etc. I really appreciate the the Maschine and that's why I'll get one eventually. I think in a few years this is where we're really gonna hear hip-hop sounds change 'cause it's gonna be super easy for kids to get fresh sounds. Or we could be like Kayne and sample aphex twin.

I still have an easier time getting songs completed on the mpc though.

If it could be used standalone as a sequencer I'd get one today. 1gb non-volatile flash memory.That's it. I don't need a sample recorder. Effects would only be a nice bonus.

I also don't make music for clients and the Maschine would be great for that.
I can't say so far that I've had any of these issues, nor have I missed the MPC even for one day. That's me...without the same software capabilites from AKAI, I'll never go back to the MPC. I'm long over using what XYZ producer uses just becasuse. To me...it really makes no difference. Since we're dealing with triggered samples, quality is nullified as an argument. Thus leaving workflow as the key motivator. An individuals workflow is completely subjective to them so arguing the point is merely for argument practice.

I have 4 tracks on soundcloud that were all composed on Maschine. The "wow" factor is subjective as well...but worth a listen.

One thing that puzzles me in your post though is..."I also don't make music for clients and the Maschine would be great for that."

I don't follow...why would Maschine be better at music for clients than an MPC?
Old 14th January 2011
  #237
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Clients often want to tweak things just so they can feel more involved. If I have to say change the sequence I have to re-track the MPC into the computer. Or they just plain pull jerk moves like making you audition 100s of samples for them. You never know at what stage of the process you're going to be forced to go back and change things. When under deadlines it can be frustrating as hell. Haha, there's a reason I decided not to make music for other people anymore.

Maschine is better for fast changes. I have no doubt about that. Since it's all in the box anytime you have to change a sound or do re-arrangements of sequences it's a much quicker process. It's no sweat to bounce it down to mp3 and share either.

But that speed of Maschine is what I found could trip me up. I'd spend more time tweaking things than ever because it's so easy. I "put up" with some of the MPC's annoyances because it makes me work better.
Old 14th January 2011
  #238
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by foodeater View Post
No offense to anyone, but I haven't heard music made with Maschine that's blown me away so far. That is I haven't heard anything and thought "how'd they find the time to do that?!" or "what tool did they use? It's amazing."

If you want the "now sound" the MPC will get you there. Much of what to get depends on what you already have and budget. Poor young kid starting out with a computer and no audio interface to track into? Maschine is really the only option for many. It's amazing for the price.
To be fair, I can't say that I've heard anything from an MPC that's really blown me away. Not saying anything against either one. I'm just saying nothing has really amazed me, and there are a lot of things that I have no clue what they were made on.

You're dead on about the budget though. I think the price will draw younger people in especially since more than likely they'll already have a computer.
Old 15th January 2011
  #239
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Dayl's Avatar
I don't think either of you would know if a track was written on an MPC or Maschine tbh.

Both of these could have been used on almost any track on the billboard top 100 without any of us knowing.
Old 15th January 2011
  #240
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayl View Post
I don't think either of you would know if a track was written on an MPC or Maschine tbh.

Both of these could have been used on almost any track on the billboard top 100 without any of us knowing.
Sorry, that was more the point I was trying to make. Most people would not know either way.
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