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My Official NI Maschine Review - Will my MPC survive? Drum Machines & Samplers
Old 29th December 2010
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatCrate View Post
I do wish they made the machine with heavier, nicer materials though,the lightweight plastic used feels sort of cheap.
Have you actually used one? It's one of the most solidly built, sturdy feeling controller I've ever used. The entire top plate of the Maschine controller is metal, unlike the newer Akai products like the MPC 5000 which is mostly cheap plastic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eemo1 View Post
how is the drum sample layering on machine? I think it's one of the strongest points of MPC's as far as making beats.
Actually, Maschine new Pad Link feature which is a more dynamic way of layering will be more useful compared to MPC's layering because Maschine's way will allow you to have full control of every parameter for each layer. All the MPCs since 3k and 2kxl have gone backwards in terms of layering since from the 1k on up, all the layered drums under one pad uses the same amp and filter envelopes. With Maschine's new Pad Link feature, you can have a pad layering group (up to 8 of them) where you can set one pad to be the master that triggers all the other pads in that pad group while the "slave" pads can still trigger on their own. This allows for much quicker experimentation while layering and you have full control of all parameters in each layer unlike MPCs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jahrome View Post
Maschine has the most limited sampling and sample editing of any software/hardware sampler I have ever used. Everything Maschine can do in this regard can be accomplished by an MPC, MV, or any leading software sampler. Maschine just doesn't have the same editing capabilities.
The whole concept of Maschine is about the superior workflow. It's not about having spec wars about who has the most complex feature set hidden in bloated menus. Why do you think Maschine with its more streamlined, "simplicity" approach has been such a huge hit when there are already tools like Battery? Why are so many people replacing their MPCs with Maschine? Anyway, it's funny to hear someone complain that Maschine is so limited as far as "sampling and sample editing". Maschine is a sampler. It's so much faster and easier to edit samples on it compared to a MPC. If you can't flip a sample on Maschine as well or better than you can with a MPC or MV, that speaks more about you.
Old 29th December 2010
  #62
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Maybe Akai will come with a new OS for the 2KXL that will enable 2 gigs of ram and a scusi>USB adaptor that allows me to access my HD & Sample folders....

heh
Old 29th December 2010
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noggin View Post
The whole concept of Maschine is about the superior workflow. It's not about having spec wars about who has the most complex feature set hidden in bloated menus. Why do you think Maschine with its more streamlined, "simplicity" approach has been such a huge hit when there are already tools like Battery? Why are so many people replacing their MPCs with Maschine? Anyway, it's funny to hear someone complain that Maschine is so limited as far as "sampling and sample editing". Maschine is a sampler. It's so much faster and easier to edit samples on it compared to a MPC. If you can't flip a sample on Maschine as well or better than you can with a MPC or MV, that speaks more about you.
You're stepping into the lion's den with anti-MPC talk in this forum, dude. heh

Nonetheless, I think you've hit the nail on the head. There IS a pretty steep learning curve to being able to use ALL the features of Maschine. But, once you've got it mastered, the workflow is really conducive to getting ideas put together QUICKLY. (That was my main turn off with the MPC and the MV. Just too slow to get the idea in my head to become a reality.)

But, hey, it's all good!! The more MPC users chime in about what they would like to see to make Maschine a more powerful tool, the better it will be in the long run. It really is a win-win situation for everybody, IMO.
Old 29th December 2010
  #64
Quote:
Originally Posted by noggin View Post
Actually, Maschine new Pad Link feature which is a more dynamic way of layering will be more useful compared to MPC's layering because Maschine's way will allow you to have full control of every parameter for each layer. All the MPCs since 3k and 2kxl have gone backwards in terms of layering since from the 1k on up, all the layered drums under one pad uses the same amp and filter envelopes. With Maschine's new Pad Link feature, you can have a pad layering group (up to 8 of them) where you can set one pad to be the master that triggers all the other pads in that pad group while the "slave" pads can still trigger on their own. This allows for much quicker experimentation while layering and you have full control of all parameters in each layer unlike MPCs.
Wrong!

You described actually what my 5k had all the time. Simultaneous playing of multiple Pads called "Simult" where one pad can be master to 3 other pads each with their own settings.

Stop spreading misinformation.
Old 29th December 2010
  #65
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Illustrious's Avatar
 

Not to mention the 2500/1000 with JJOS has the simult function as well, along with individual ADSR settings for each drum layer.......misinformation indeed.
Old 29th December 2010
  #66
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mpc4000 = 128 layers per keygroup

or 4 sounds per zone in "drum program"


all of which are edited independently if you choose.


DO the KNOWLEDGE
Old 29th December 2010
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lord toranaga View Post
mpc4000 = 128 layers per keygroup
Maschine has always been able to layer up to 128 samples on 1 pad. When you layer this way, you can use velocity switching and/or stack samples on one pad so that they play at the same velocity range. And you still get basic pan level etc. per sample on the pad.
Old 29th December 2010
  #68
noggin, selectively picking that quote and ignoring the fact that you got exposed of spreading misinformation just shows that you live in a parallel universe...
Old 29th December 2010
  #69
Gear Addict
 

Like I said, with MPC layering from the 1k on up, all the layered drums under one pad uses the same amp and filter envelopes.

The only MPC that comes with the simult pad feature that hasn't been discontinued is the 5000. With the 1000/2500, you have to rely on an unofficial third party operating system that you have to buy additionally in order to get that feature.

Anyway, none of this really matters when you look at Akai moving away from and discontinuing legacy products like MPC whereas NI has been on fire, actively developing Maschine based directly on user feedback. The direction Maschine is heading is clearly the future and when it comes to workflow, it's just a no contest.
Old 30th December 2010
  #70
Quote:
Originally Posted by noggin View Post
Like I said, with MPC layering from the 1k on up, all the layered drums under one pad uses the same amp and filter envelopes.

The only MPC that comes with the simult pad feature that hasn't been discontinued is the 5000. With the 1000/2500, you have to rely on an unofficial third party operating system that you have to buy additionally in order to get that feature.

Hah you're funny, that was not what you said. You said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by noggin View Post
Actually, Maschine new Pad Link feature which is a more dynamic way of layering will be more useful compared to MPC's layering because Maschine's way will allow you to have full control of every parameter for each layer. All the MPCs since 3k and 2kxl have gone backwards in terms of layering since from the 1k on up, all the layered drums under one pad uses the same amp and filter envelopes. With Maschine's new Pad Link feature, you can have a pad layering group (up to 8 of them) where you can set one pad to be the master that triggers all the other pads in that pad group while the "slave" pads can still trigger on their own. This allows for much quicker experimentation while layering and you have full control of all parameters in each layer unlike MPCs.

You and your agenda lol
Tried to make a feature that MPCs already had look like they didn't and NI invented it all for the next shiny new Maschine update.

Really, I'm not a MPC fanboi or Machine hater.. I'd buy one one because I think I'm open minded and don't refuse new technology. Both have their places & uses really.... both are more than capable of getting creativity across.

But the way you keep on pushing and hyping Maschine (and nothing else) here at Gearslutz and at the same time badmouthing MPCs as crap and all MPC users as fanbois makes you look like the biggest fanboi that ever existed..... for any product. Really I have never seen a more resolute attitude by any user of any product.
Old 30th December 2010
  #71
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Dayl's Avatar
I actually think Akai is buying their time. They clearly have the ability and technology to put out their own updated MPC to rival the maschine skill sets now.... if they chose to... prob already been in the loop for a while.

Maschine is really only what people want from an MPC in this day and age. it is not really anything new or ground breaking in my opinion with the exception of the software integration and an expanded skill set... just an MPC with all the wish list boxes ticked and a bit more tech for the computer nerds.. Awesome piece of equipment? yes, absolutely, without a doubt but as a company wanting to compete let NI figure out the quirks etcs of this newer platform / integration first then make your move once the heat from the fan boys dies down and the bugs are fixed etc.. saves time & money that way.

To make a comment like 'this is the future' is the most blatantly obvious statment out.... I mean... duh.... but NI wont be the only people providing a product like this in the future and we could see a rival within the next couple of years or even 12 months. That will really give people something to argue about. thumbsup
Old 30th December 2010
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noggin View Post
Anyway, none of this really matters
This sums it all up.
Old 30th December 2010
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0t0b0t View Post
Hah you're funny, that was not what you said. You said:
Quote:
All the MPCs since 3k and 2kxl have gone backwards in terms of layering since from the 1k on up, all the layered drums under one pad uses the same amp and filter envelopes.
Actually that is no different than what I said when I repeated it. I'm talking about the pad layering there, not the simult pad feature.
Old 30th December 2010
  #74
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I really enjoy the civil discussion here. It makes coming here enjoyable.

I am not a hater of Maschine at all. While NI released Maschine..if you read through the MPC forums, you will clearly see that Maschines feature set is nearly identical to what has been in numerous MPC feature request threads over the years. I wrote an open letter to Akai before Maschine was released to create a similar product. I love the concept of Maschine and would like to see its software/hardware mature further. For the record, I want Maschine to accomplish everything an MPC does. It not NI..than Akai or Roland.

Some of you suggest that anyone using Maschine should have just been happy that it worked as advertised and not compare it with an MPC. Or questioned why we wasted our money, etc. etc. (not saying any names).

If it wasn't for continued feedback from users (as well as non-users), we wouldn't have the features in OS 1.6.
Old 30th December 2010
  #75
Gear Maniac
 

I see the MPC's as tools for those who can either afford to track multiple sources into their interface and stack hardware gear between the workstation and daw or they have the money to get their beats tracked at real studios (or they know people that do it free). I've had to put ****loads of money in , hardware compressors, vst's, vsti's and A/D/C related stuff (many many i/o's) that aren't even considered high end gear. I wouldn't suggest an mpc to a friend living on a shoestring budget. I know you can use the mpc with a 2 i/o usb interface (or even a casette deck if you're an extreme lofist) and no external sound sources, but you can't really talk about great workflow there anymore..

I've never used a Maschine, but to me it seems like it'd give more to dudes who want to do all their production from start to end, without having to invest in other pieces of gear like synths and other audio units. I don't say it's a bad thing, I'll just say you'll probably learn less about GEAR if you only work ITB. I know that with maschine you don't have to... but most will.

I like both Akai and Native Instruments. The $100 mpkmini lead me partly back to Fruity Loops.. which is fun when I'm not home. Guitar Rig 4, Traktor Scratch, Reaktor and Kore synths etc. are in my arsenal and I love em all...
Old 30th December 2010
  #76
Quote:
Originally Posted by noggin View Post
Actually that is no different than what I said when I repeated it. I'm talking about the pad layering there, not the simult pad feature.
Yeah and you also said ALL THE MPCs lack something like the Pad Link feature making it look like it was something exclusive to Maschine (yet to come). How is the pad layering on the Maschine now?
Old 30th December 2010
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMeek View Post
I've never used a Maschine, but to me it seems like it'd give more to dudes who want to do all their production from start to end, without having to invest in other pieces of gear like synths and other audio units. I don't say it's a bad thing, I'll just say you'll probably learn less about GEAR if you only work ITB. I know that with maschine you don't have to... but most will.
That's no longer the case with the 1.6 update allowing Maschine full control and automation of every parameter of any plugin or external hardware that have editors that load as plugins. That's already a rather extensive and continuously growing list of supported hardware thanks to free open source projects like CTRLR (ctrlr.org) including: Access Virus, Ultranova and all Novation synths, Motif, Fantom, Moog Little Phatty/Voyager, Waldorf Blofeld/Pulse, Clavia Nord Lead 2/3, Mopho, Evolver, Tetra, Prophet '08, Micron/Miniak, Roland synths like Juno 106, Jomox, MFB, Korg MS2000, Oberheim...etc.
Old 30th December 2010
  #78
mp3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noggin View Post
The whole concept of Maschine is about the superior workflow.
...
Anyway, it's funny to hear someone complain that Maschine is so limited as far as "sampling and sample editing". Maschine is a sampler. It's so much faster and easier to edit samples on it compared to a MPC.
Not my MPC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by noggin View Post
If you can't flip a sample on Maschine as well or better than you can with a MPC or MV, that speaks more about you.

That's clown talk homie forreal. Anybody on here could murder the right sample in any halfway decent sampler. Some could even murder an average sample... Its not an issue of if somebody can or can't, its an issue of whether its a net positive to switch. For a lot of people it is. For me, and apparently a lot of other people, its not. Some people get both. Now, if you can't be okay with that, then that speaks more about you.
Old 30th December 2010
  #79
mp3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMeek View Post
I see the MPC's as tools for those who can either afford to track multiple sources into their interface and stack hardware gear between the workstation and daw or they have the money to get their beats tracked at real studios (or they know people that do it free).
I disagree. I have a decent setup but that's because I've been producing for 15 years and I love hardware. But that's a choice. I could ditch it all tomorrow and just pair my MPC up with Ableton and not even really miss all my hardware. Until I wanted a real knob to turn or button to push.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMeek View Post
I've had to put ****loads of money in , hardware compressors, vst's, vsti's and A/D/C related stuff (many many i/o's) that aren't even considered high end gear.
Nah man that was a choice. You didn't have to. You chose to. You could have gotten a computer, a DAW, and a 2x2 soundcard and called it a day. Of course with Maschine a computer and a soundcard are requirements, not options.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMeek View Post
I wouldn't suggest an mpc to a friend living on a shoestring budget. I know you can use the mpc with a 2 i/o usb interface (or even a casette deck if you're an extreme lofist) and no external sound sources, but you can't really talk about great workflow there anymore..
WHy can't you? I talk about how great the workflow is between Ableton Live and my MPC all the time.

Truth is that you're just as limited using Maschine on its own. Sure you can pair it up with a softsynth and/or a DAW and VSTs etc. (which I don't need to remind you that you can do the same with an MPC), but then you're not using it alone anymore. And then when you realize you HAVE to get an interface for it, and you NEED a decent computer for it, Maschine starts to look not quite so cheap. And not quite so portable. And not quite so self-contained.
Old 30th December 2010
  #80
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for a while i have umm'ed and ah'd abut getting a maschine.

was put off for a while, had requested hosting AU plugs ... waited.

1.6 was announced - tempted again.


however these maschine threads are so annoying it puts me off.
Old 30th December 2010
  #81
Gear Addict
 

I am waiting for gen2 maschine.

that is my stance on all new technology introduced.

I will buy it eventually as my computer is always on, in the studio.
My imac is the central instrument in my arsenal.
Old 30th December 2010
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomlee View Post
however these maschine threads are so annoying it puts me off.
There are definitely people who have made the Maschine seem less appealing while they are trying to make it seem more appealing.

If I worked at Native Instruments, I'd pay Noggin good money to stop posting.

Conversely, all the dumbass defensive conservativism/religion around the MPC is a drag too.

Why people have to get emotional about this stuff is beyond me.

It's just different ways to get to "boom! bap!"

- c

p.s. I have a Maschine and I love it. But, you know, whatever. It's only one way of working.
Old 30th December 2010
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Sonya View Post
There are definitely people who have made the Maschine seem less appealing while they are trying to make it seem more appealing.

If I worked at Native Instruments, I'd pay Noggin good money to stop posting.

Conversely, all the dumbass defensive conservativism/religion around the MPC is a drag too.

Why people have to get emotional about this stuff is beyond me.

It's just different ways to get to "boom! bap!"

- c

p.s. I have a Maschine and I love it. But, you know, whatever. It's only one way of working.



Exactly..... nothing wrong with loving your preferred interface or tool, but you have to wonder where his motivations are..... it's kind of weird.


Me personally? I'm stoked to get my hands on Maschine. I love all of this new technology that can be had for cheap.

I've got an MPC1000, MV8000, and I think a laptop based solution would be nice for traveling. I already know Maschine can't do what my MPC and especially my MV can do, but it will be fun.
Old 30th December 2010
  #84
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At the end of the day they are all just "machines".....
Old 30th December 2010
  #85
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Dayl's Avatar
Marshall.. are you Tongan by chance bro? every time I see your Av ... you look like my friend Tevita's long lost twin lol.. crazy
Old 31st December 2010
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
Nah man that was a choice. You didn't have to. You chose to. You could have gotten a computer, a DAW, and a 2x2 soundcard and called it a day. Of course with Maschine a computer and a soundcard are requirements, not options.
I personally think that kills alot of the workflow. YMMV


Yeah, ofcourse I got a computer and a daw but that route cost me a lot more when I think about it now. That's because I've been striving to find a good workflow and trying to do everything a software can do, with a limited workstation (by combining it to the virtual world where everything can be emulated). It's easy to be a wise guy afterwards... but I don't regret choosing the gearslut way, lol and I've learned lots. I probably won't put any more money in this now, I'll try to learn my complicated setup heh
Old 31st December 2010
  #87
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E-Maddox's Avatar
 

@Jahrome - You seem more than a little tilted against Maschine. Do you have a connect with Roland or Akai or something?
Old 31st December 2010
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by noggin
Maschine is a sampler. It's so much faster and easier to edit samples on it compared to a MPC.
Not my MPC.
Then you obviously haven't used Maschine. There is no MPC that can come close to the speed and ease at which you can accomplish the same things on Maschine. This is one of Maschine's main advantages.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wax808 View Post
I already know Maschine can't do what my MPC and especially my MV can do
Then you must be either psychic or... you think that there is a magical "MPC sound":
Quote:
Originally Posted by wax808 View Post
The "MPC Sound" is far from a myth. On the MPC-1000 it has directly to do with the output voltage on the main outs. Part of it is the compressor that's turned on by default.

It doesn't matter how people quantify it, doubters who have never used one live just cant understand. I will tell you this though from much experience: When you feed the main outs of an MPC-1000 into a large PA system it just plain rocks the fvcking house. It's got a presence thats magic, it's straight up hip-hop.... and the crowd feels it.
Old 31st December 2010
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E-Maddox View Post
@Jahrome - You seem more than a little tilted against Maschine. Do you have a connect with Roland or Akai or something?
That's a weird question...especially since you can see my Forum Signature.....

Like so many others in this forum, I own Akai, Roland, and NI Products. I was hoping Akai released a product like this in the form of an advanced/next-level MPC. NI beat them to the punch. However, Maschine is a work in progress. While it does things that are not possible with an MPC..the MPC or MV are better all around samplers and sequencers.
Old 31st December 2010
  #90
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wax808's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by noggin View Post
Then you obviously haven't used Maschine. There is no MPC that can come close to the speed and ease at which you can accomplish the same things on Maschine. This is one of Maschine's main advantages.

Then you must be either psychic or... you think that there is a magical "MPC sound":


lol..... no, that's not what I was referring to. But yeah, out of all the hardware I use the MPC1000 has an incredible sound that punches though any mix. It kills my MV-8000, not to mention the little laptop I use to listen to MP3's.


What I was referring to is the fact that Machine can't do what I need it to as far as controlling lots of hardware. I asked you about this in earnest a while back in a another thread.... This is your reply.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noggin View Post
heh


Are we talking 5 external hardware synths? Maschine can certainly replace the MPC as a master sequencer in a software based setup especially in light of the 1.6 update bomb they just dropped, but if you have a bunch of hardware you wanna use, I say stick with the MPC, at least until NI brings more updates in that area which they have promised.

But you knew this.... and you decided to dredge up an old thread I posted to score some weird internet points.

Enjoy your laptop all you want..... for guys like me who use lots of real hardware in the studio and live the machine can't even come close to replacing an MPC.


I'll probably wait for some kid to sell his machine for cheap, it should be fun for generating ideas.
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