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arranging / composing for a loud(er) mix / master? Turntables
Old 20th December 2010
  #1
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arranging / composing for a loud(er) mix / master?

i know of some electro dudes that never let a kick and a bass note coincide just to be able get a louder mix and therefore a louder master without squashing the @#%@ out of it.

any of you practice this for hip hop?
Old 20th December 2010
  #2
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edit: oh i misread what you wrote.
Old 20th December 2010
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beat you down View Post
i know of some electro dudes that never let a kick and a bass note coincide just to be able get a louder mix and therefore a louder master without squashing the @#%@ out of it.

any of you practice this for hip hop?
If its done its not intentional for my productions.

Nothing to do with volume as far as I'm concerned, my mastering engineer can make things as loud as I want him to.


Most of the time I want stuff no more than -10 rms but usually they are LOUD AS HELL at -13, -12 the way he masters which is big, clear and full.

Kind of frees me up, along with my bass player to get their groove on.

Peace
Illumination
Old 20th December 2010
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yosemitesam View Post
Yeah I think it's quite rare to have a kick and snare hit at the same time in hip hop. I know the RZA does it sometimes and Kanye West used to on his earlier work but I don't think he does anymore. Besides that I personally can't think of many examples.

Regarding electro I have a theory that when people go for four on the floor kick feels they tend to use claps rather than snares. Since there isn't anything crucial going on in a clap even below like 1k, there's no overlapping harmonic content so you're not sacrificing how loudly you can limit.
kicks and snares?
i was talking about kicks and bass notes!

heh
Old 21st December 2010
  #5
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arranging / composing for a loud(er) mix / master?

Quote:
Originally Posted by yosemitesam

Since there isn't anything crucial going on in a clap even below like 1k, there's no overlapping harmonic content .

Huh!?!?
Old 21st December 2010
  #6
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This is a good thread. I like this kind of speculation. stike
Old 21st December 2010
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickrock305 View Post
Huh!?!?
I'm going to precede this by saying I'm not certain I'm right.

My point was that with a kick, almost all of what matters is from 1000 or 1200 down to 20. With a lot of claps, you can high-pass filter out whatever is around 1000 or so on down without missing anything.

So when a kick and a filtered clap play at the same time, they're in completely separate areas of the frequency spectrum. [This is where I start speculating] So how loud the kick is doesn't place any restriction on how loud the clap is, and vice-versa. Kind of like if you had one of the instruments panned hard left and one panned hard right--they're not affecting each other since they're in their own compartments.

Anyway this is kind of thread-hijacking since it's only tangentially related.
Old 21st December 2010
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yosemitesam View Post
I'm going to precede this by saying I'm not certain I'm right.

My point was that with a kick, almost all of what matters is from 1000 or 1200 down to 20. With a lot of claps, you can high-pass filter out whatever is around 1000 or so on down without missing anything.

So when a kick and a filtered clap play at the same time, they're in completely separate areas of the frequency spectrum. [This is where I start speculating] So how loud the kick is doesn't place any restriction on how loud the clap is, and vice-versa. Kind of like if you had one of the instruments panned hard left and one panned hard right--they're not affecting each other since they're in their own compartments.

Anyway this is kind of thread-hijacking since it's only tangentially related.
true, you're right just misread what i wrote.

Old 21st December 2010
  #9
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Coming from a DnB background, this is definitely a technique used but at the same time not a rule.

It had more to do with the definition of the bass see it was one of the main components more than for the sake of loudness. It had something to do with getting the best bass from your mix when cutting dubplates as there was a fine line before the needle would jump out of the groove.

But yeah, seeing as I've been there before it's kinda like some default practice for me... I can also say that it is not always right for the mix too.
Old 21st December 2010
  #10
Old 21st December 2010
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by down_town View Post
nice one.
Old 21st December 2010
  #12
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I feel like regardless of loudness considerations, not having two things going on in the exact same place (frequency and pan-wise) and time is just a good musical idea.
Old 21st December 2010
  #13
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arranging / composing for a loud(er) mix / master?

Quote:
Originally Posted by yosemitesam
My point was that with a kick, almost all of what matters is from 1000 or 1200 down to 20. With a lot of claps, you can high-pass filter out whatever is around 1000 or so on down without missing anything.

.
Neither ofthose statements is accurate. There is plenty of worthwhile kick goodness above 1k, and there's plenty of clap stuff below 1000.
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