The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Gettin that PHAT commercial hip hop kick... Dynamics Processors (HW)
Old 11th June 2003
  #1
Lives for gear
 

Gettin that PHAT commercial hip hop kick...

I think great compression is a big part of it...besides pickin a good sound...i was wondering what compressors are the go to ones...i was especially looking for plug-ins(wishful thinking) since i prefer to mix within the box then on my mackie and there cheaper!..i was thinking maybe the UAD-1 would be good(for plug-in choice) or the distressor would be the choice for a real compressor..

just chiming in for my experience opinions and maybe other possibilities
Old 11th June 2003
  #2
Gear Maniac
 

I don't know about commercial, but I've had some good results with the MoogerFooger Low Pass filter by Bomb Factory. Plenty of control and you can dial in the right amount of "fat" at whatever frequency. Try the demo and see if it does the trick.

Hope this helps.

anthony
Old 11th June 2003
  #3
Gear Maniac
 

My bad.. I just realized you're using Sonar (judging by your avatar) so the bf plugs won't work. anyway, I'm sure there's something similar in Sonar land.

anthony
Old 11th June 2003
  #4
Lives for gear
 

yea i'ma a PC man...but would the distressor be the choice in external land?

and when i say commercial i mean LP's that have been released in stores with barcodes and what not and of course are professionally mastered etc...
Old 11th June 2003
  #5
Lives for gear
 
XHipHop's Avatar
Dbx 160x's are good affordable compressors that bring out some 'knock' in drums.

If you want some extra sub level stuff goign on you can trigger a really low frequency sine wave every time a kick hits.
Old 11th June 2003
  #6
Mindreader
 
BevvyB's Avatar
 

api eq
Old 11th June 2003
  #7
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally posted by BevvyB
api eq
would the speck eq do the job as well? all that talk of lunchbox and installing gives me the heebby jeebbies not to mention they are more expensive heh

so its eq that makes u feel the kick in your stomach not compression...no wonder i had problems getting the sound
Old 11th June 2003
  #8
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally posted by XHipHop
Dbx 160x's are good affordable compressors that bring out some 'knock' in drums.

If you want some extra sub level stuff goign on you can trigger a really low frequency sine wave every time a kick hits.
how would i go about doing that exactly? the sine wave thing...sounds interesting
Old 11th June 2003
  #9
Lives for gear
 
XHipHop's Avatar
If you are using Pro Tools this is how you would do it...I don't have experience with most other programs plugins (even though i use Logic a lot now)..

On a new track, put the "signal generator" plugin in the top insert. Pick the sine wave and pick the frequency (i guess this depends on what your kick sounds like already but let's just say 60 hz or 80 hz or 100 hz...whatever sounds right).

Then insert a gate in the next insert slot. Click the key input button and set the key to be the kick drum track. So now it will only let the sine wave through when the kick hits. So you'll have this cool subass going off and adding a little extra bottom thump.

I'm sure you could do this with other plugins (soft synths?) or even a hardware synth if you want to try it.

Also, some people use those DBX sub harmonic synths but I've never tried those.
Old 12th June 2003
  #10
Lives for gear
 
Nutmeg II.'s Avatar
 

The key is to get the sound right in the first step. Use a sample that has all you want in it or use a layer with multiple samples.
Use the ADSR envelopes to get control, which is simpler than with a comp.
In terms of eq a Wackie D8B will do it, wile better eqs make it more easy to dail in the sound you want.
Old 12th June 2003
  #11
Mindreader
 
BevvyB's Avatar
 

I just remember a lunchbox always seeming to find the thump that I was looking for with a couple of clicks it seemed to dial in loads of character without any effort whatsoever...

..but perhaps I was lucky..but there was a while I was doing only dance and hip hop

re the sine wave thing....its also fun to actually play it as a sample beause you can **** with the length...there's something cool about having every other one low sine coming off a fraction early/later...gives a kind of kickback to the thythm..
Old 12th June 2003
  #12
Gear Addict
 
mdbeh's Avatar
 

A Pultec, or something with similar controls, can work.

Messing with the Cut and Boost on the same frequency can really help give parts their own space and make the low end big without the kick and bass fighting each other.

Since it sounds like you can't spring for a real Pultec, and you're on a PC, the UA Pultec might give you some of that flavor. I don't own one, but I used it once, and thought it was ok.

The UA apparently has a big rolloff in the high frequencies (discussed many times here and elsewhere), but if you're just using it on bass, it shouldn't matter much.
Old 12th June 2003
  #13
Gear Addict
 

Instead of compressing the kick a bunch, try slapping a compressor over the entire music bed (or different groups of it), and keying that off of the kick. Use a very fast attack and release time. When done right, this effect can make the kick sound like it's alot louder than it really is, and you won't notice the track ducking under the kick . I don't know what plugin is best, but on an SSL, the channel comps work just fine.
Old 12th June 2003
  #14
Lives for gear
 
littledog's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by XHipHop
If you are using Pro Tools this is how you would do it...I don't have experience with most other programs plugins (even though i use Logic a lot now)..

On a new track, put the "signal generator" plugin in the top insert. Pick the sine wave and pick the frequency (i guess this depends on what your kick sounds like already but let's just say 60 hz or 80 hz or 100 hz...whatever sounds right)...
Xhip:

When you say "signal generator" is that the actual name of a plug-in, or are you just using it as a generic reference to any soft-synth? I don't seem to have anything called "signal generator" either in the TDM or the RTAS lists. What is it that you are actually using to generate the sine wave?
Old 12th June 2003
  #15
Lives for gear
 
heinz's Avatar
 

Not a PT dude, but signal generation in this context is a function within the software to generate reference signals, typically into a track... signals like white noise, triangle waves, saw waves, rectangles... etc..
Old 12th June 2003
  #16
Gear Maniac
 
Anonymatt's Avatar
 

I believe there is a "Digirack" plugin called Signal Generator.


Someone told me that the best part of a hip-hop kick lived at 800Hz.

I went there, "knocked", but no one answered the door.
Old 12th June 2003
  #17
Lives for gear
 
toledo3's Avatar
 

I think that there are so many good samples and keyboard/drum box patches...that's the way to go. Personally, I really like the Roland kicks. If you have the right sound for teh track you shouldn't have to do major work.

If you are compressing it, you really have to make sure not to take away too much attack. You want to be able to feel it, not just hear it.

BTW, anonymatt, there is a lot of kick energy from about 700-900 that lets the kick through in smaller speakers. I find myself tweaking in that region alot.

Oh, also, did someone say subharmonic synthesizer
Old 12th June 2003
  #18
Lives for gear
 
e-cue's Avatar
 

Nobody is multing?

This set up worked perfectly for a Krs-One track I did yesterday:

OG Signal : Slight McDsp Filterbank EQ, no more than 3 db
Mult #1 160 XT -> API 550b
Mult #2 Distressor -> Pultec Blue
Mult #3 LT Sound Comp -> Moog Graphic Eq

The 3rd mult was added in about half what the others were. I felt like how god must feel when he gets his kick drum sound.
Old 12th June 2003
  #19
Quote:
Originally posted by e-cue
Nobody is multing?

This set up worked perfectly for a Krs-One track I did yesterday:

OG Signal : Slight Filterbank EQ, no more than 3 db
Mult #1 160 XT -> API 550b
Mult #2 Distressor -> Pultec Blue
Mult #3 LT Sound Comp -> Moog Graphic Eq

The 3rd mult was added in about half what the others were. I felt like how god must feel when he gets his kick drum sound.
Hey E-Cue,

Our kick mults are pretty similar.

I like:

OG signal-Distressor or Smart C2-GML8200
#1- API 560B or 5502- Bottomn
#2-Pultec Blue-Mids
#3-Dbx 160X-1073 -"knock"
#4 Transient designer-GML8200 or Drawmer DS201 with filter on hard gate-"Point"

Eventually bussed to another stereo channel.

Blend to taste.
Old 12th June 2003
  #20
Lives for gear
 
e-cue's Avatar
 

Yeah, mine just changed for that particular session. I usually use the Pultec on my lows, and my API on the mids.
Old 12th June 2003
  #21
Lives for gear
 
C.Lambrechts's Avatar
 

Depends on the track / arrangement and if the tune needs it but I've done this in several hip-hoppy tracks I've done.

add a subtone in the key the tune is in. take the 'ground note' (dunno how you call it in english but simply put if the tune is in C, take a C) and have the bassdrum trigger that one. eq the subtone at taste (cut the highs for example) and blend in with the BD at taste. I guess it's kinda similar to the signal generator trick mentioned before yet different. I usually only do it on the chorus. definately not the whole tune and if you have 7 different tonalities in the tune it won't work either. But it's hiphop we're talking about right heh .
Old 12th June 2003
  #22
Lives for gear
 
Renie's Avatar
 

Thrill, e-cue

Do you ever just use sample(s) of your previous mult work or do you always create custom mults for the track you're working on?
Old 12th June 2003
  #23
Lives for gear
 

thrill, e-cue i'm not quite sure what u mean buy mult...can u explain in a lil more detail..i never went to any engineering school never read a book on it...all my info i get are from these sites and experience...i guess i'm saying use lamens term
Old 12th June 2003
  #24
Gear Addict
 
mdbeh's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by thethrillfactor
Eventually bussed to another stereo channel.

Blend to taste.
So, since you're bussing everything to a stereo fader, do you ever pan the mults to different places L-R? Or does everything still stay in the center?
Old 12th June 2003
  #25
Lives for gear
 

what do u mean by mult?
Old 12th June 2003
  #26
Lives for gear
 
faeflora's Avatar
 

First I eq it.

Then I apply lots and LOTS of gain.

Then I limit the **** out of it.

Then I eq it again or use some subbass processor or both.

If I subbass process I might then compress the subbass and source together.

Then I gate it if there's a noisy tail.


= very loud whumpy kick

Ta da!
Old 12th June 2003
  #27
Lives for gear
 
littledog's Avatar
 

Multing is essentially splitting the audio signal from a tape (or DAW) track so that you can process them or otherwise treat them differently. Then they are eventually recombined back at various volume levels back into the mix. In the examples given in some of the posts above, you can see how the kick signal was split and sent to various EQ's, compressors, or effects before being recombined on back into a stereo or mono channel.

In DAW's multing is pretty simple - you can do it by bussing the signal to different aux returns or even simpler - just make multiple copies of the original track. In analog situations, multing is often achieved by using a half-normalled patchbay.

It can be an extremely useful technique. For instance, if you'd really like more grit on your lead vocalist, who has a bad case of terminal smoothness, you can mult the vocal track and send one of mults to a distortion box, guitar amp, or grit-device of your choice. Then you add it back into the dry (smooth) signal just enough to get a little grit while still keeping the sound "human".
Old 12th June 2003
  #28
Lives for gear
 
faeflora's Avatar
 

Mult means bus or aux or duplicate of signal.

When I mult up a kick I always compress it or limit it back together so it sounds more like a single sound.

Occasionally if I want deep bassage, I'll mult, use a subbass processor, then lowpass it down to like 100hz, and highpass the original kick around 80 or something. You don't need much level on the super subbass track. It's more for feel anyways, like super big bass drop on the 1st and 4th bar downbeat or whatever.

Bass is lots of fun isn't it? heh
Old 12th June 2003
  #29
Mindreader
 
BevvyB's Avatar
 

Bev: imagining he's doing something interesting like fiddling with low frequencies on a hip hop track
Old 12th June 2003
  #30
Lives for gear
 

ooo ok...thank you
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
cup-of-coffee / Rap + Hip Hop engineering and production
34
AusChris / Rap + Hip Hop engineering and production
25
rtprods / Rap + Hip Hop engineering and production
16
Seti808 / Rap + Hip Hop engineering and production
18

Forum Jump
Forum Jump