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Is there still space for raw/dirty hip hop in 2010 Plugin Presets/Expansions
Old 25th March 2010
  #1
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Is there still space for raw/dirty hip hop in 2010

Everything is so clean the sterile these days. I am beginning to appriciate the sound but I miss the sound of the past in some ways. What is everyone else's take on this? Even the underground stuff these days doesn't sound very raw to me. I am getting old.
Old 25th March 2010
  #2
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You listen to Oddisee and Kev Brown at all? Theres other stuff out there as well. Not sure that Dirt will ever become the mainstream commercial sound.
Old 25th March 2010
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWest View Post
...I am beginning to appriciate the sound...
be careful!!

first symptoms... before you know it you're doing 808 sawtooth auto-tune crap.
Old 25th March 2010
  #4
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I feel you Kev, I pray on this everyday. I guess me and you are just going to have to keep doing US till.
Old 25th March 2010
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beat you down View Post
be careful!!

first symptoms... before you know it you're doing 808 sawtooth auto-tune crap.
I always dirty up my 808's and sawthooths.
Old 25th March 2010
  #6
Kinda funny how preferring crusty, grimy, raw **** is a sign of "getting old".heh

Used to be that I'd seek out the gnarliest-sounding, most aggressive stuff I could to freak out ma and pops and stick it to the man.
Old 25th March 2010
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beat you down View Post
be careful!!

first symptoms... before you know it you're doing 808 sawtooth auto-tune crap.
I was doing that in 2004. Got bored with the sound though my stuff was a lot more 80s pop influenced. Im mostly into the early 90s eastcoast kinda sound wtih the dirty drum loops and what not. But I hear more and more independant projects that sound just as clean and professional as the mainstream stuff I'm thinking if I submit to those kinds of projects Ill standout in a bad way.
Old 25th March 2010
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto View Post
Kinda funny how preferring crusty, grimy, raw **** is a sign of "getting old".heh

Used to be that I'd seek out the gnarliest-sounding, most aggressive stuff I could to freak out ma and pops and stick it to the man.
lol Im 26 my kids make me feel old
Old 25th March 2010
  #9
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Nowadays you stick it to the man by parading around with all the most expensive **** the man has to offer. Than you self destruct in public due to all the excesses, which than becomes a cool trend for all ******** wannabes to follow.

I stay posted up with real raw beats cause that's what I'm feeling. However, I know that real raw Hip Hop is never coming back. Hip Hop is the new rock. Exactly what happened to that genre is happening to Hip Hop.
Old 25th March 2010
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F Major View Post
You listen to Oddisee and Kev Brown at all? Theres other stuff out there as well. Not sure that Dirt will ever become the mainstream commercial sound.
Im glad. I am tired of mainstream hip hop. Im not even sure what mainstream hip hop is anymore. Is it really just a person talkin over banging drums because thats all I hear in the mainstream anymore. The art is dead in the mainstream. I want to hear some good underground hip hop. But no I dont really check for Oddisee or Kev Brown. I am really into 9th Wonder, Alchemist, Havoc, Premier, Khalil, Babu, The Rza cats like that. Its hard for me to find much I enjoy anymore. I really like Black Milk also but I can never find his new music
Old 25th March 2010
  #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWest View Post
lol Im 26 my kids make me feel old
Yeah, I'm 26 too. Luckily, I don't have kids to make me feel old, and I'm the youngest of my friends by an average of like 5 yearsheh

But I know what you mean.

The stuff that passes for "punk rock", and "underground", and "hip hop" these days is just plain pathetic. There's no sense of danger, no sense of real rebellion...I mean...what's the point?!? How are you going to piss off mom and dad with something contrived and harmless? Do you really want to stick it to the man purely by having bad taste?

But hey, these things are generally cyclical so I'm sure we'll see a return to some more interesting sounds, particularly as the industry sees a more internet-savvy audience that eliminates the need for huge marketing budgets and radio play in order to grab up some attention.

Here's hopin' at least.
Old 26th March 2010
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by excLOUsiv View Post
Nowadays you stick it to the man by parading around with all the most expensive **** the man has to offer.
Which you've paid for using a credit card you can't afford, which in turns puts you in debt for life, which in turn makes you even more a slave to the man.

Damn. This "man" fella really has **** figured out...

Quote:
Originally Posted by excLOUsiv View Post
Hip Hop is the new rock. Exactly what happened to that genre is happening to Hip Hop.
For example, fools parading around in the most expensive **** the man has to offer and publicly self-destructing due to the excesses, which becomes a trend for all the wannabes to follow.heh
Old 26th March 2010
  #13
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And you can't stick it to the man when he's paying for your gold fronts, tats, coke, weed, video hoes, expensive cars, alimony & child support payments, tight jeans, body guards, misc. legal fees, and last but not least...your huge gold pendant of anything from Fonzi Bear to a giant box of Kellogs.
Old 26th March 2010
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWest View Post
Im glad. I am tired of mainstream hip hop. Im not even sure what mainstream hip hop is anymore. Is it really just a person talkin over banging drums because thats all I hear in the mainstream anymore. The art is dead in the mainstream. I want to hear some good underground hip hop. But no I dont really check for Oddisee or Kev Brown. I am really into 9th Wonder, Alchemist, Havoc, Premier, Khalil, Babu, The Rza cats like that. Its hard for me to find much I enjoy anymore. I really like Black Milk also but I can never find his new music
That's why the drum kit selling cats can GTFOH, seriously. Like Philly has sad numerous times, a great track is a whole lot more than using another producers "banging" drums. Like on that Bedrock track in another thread. Do you think somebody is gonna buy that or download it, lol. The track has no replay value. The track is an entire loop with the same lame sounds that every other track from them has in it. Each rapper on the track has the same flow just a different voice.
Old 26th March 2010
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyMike View Post
That's why the drum kit selling cats can GTFOH, seriously. Like Philly has sad numerous times, a great tracks is a whole lot more than using another producers "banging" drums.

I agree with you Mikey Mike and Philly .
My question is why can't the everyone see this as an opportunity and not an obstacle.
You have better equipment, than what they had plus some'' create it yourself....You can do it, if you put your mind to it.
So get busy, what's the problem you have the solution. encourage yourself.
Old 26th March 2010
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reggmail View Post

I agree with you Mikey Mike and Philly .
My question is why can't the everyone see this as an opportunity and not an obstacle.
You have better equipment, than what they had plus some'' create it yourself....You can do it, if you put your mind to it.
So get busy, what's the problem you have the solution. encourage yourself.
And you know what's really sad about it all. Lloyd could of really been the next Michael Jackson. There voices have very similar tonality. He could've, should've been a whole lot bigger than what he is but he chose to be a follower.
Old 26th March 2010
  #17
Gear Head
 

Sample clearance issues really hollowed out core hip-hop. The time it takes and overall cost..especially in an era where sales are waaay down make it not practical. Plus huge publishing percentages even if you do get a sample cleared. I personally know somebody that had to sign away 85% on a replay..not even a sample.

Also...censorship..has really killed the content allowed in most 'hip-hop' releases. A record company is not going to put big money into a group like Public Enemy these days. I've read of record companies making artists pull songs from albums due to content. Also, radio stations with 'do not play lists', etc.

I liked hip hop when it was a gladiator arena..where those who paid dues and proved themselves through TALENT were rewarded with opportunities. Now the whole situation is a free-for-all..and any critic of said garbage is a 'hater'. Basically, there's no incentive to be creative or original if clones are the ones being rewarded. There's exceptions though..great connections can do a lot for somebody.

I'll admit as well I have dabbled in 'mainstream' rap/hip-hop in the last few years..but that stuff is nonsense because you need connections and resources to compete with big record companies. By the time most cats adapt to trends and attempt to compete..that sht is already old and the industry has moved on to the next bubbling trend.

But realistically..almost every genre of music has been negatively affected by corporate influence..so..it's nothing new really.

ha ha..oh yeah..there's room for everything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reggmail View Post

I agree with you Mikey Mike and Philly .
My question is why can't the everyone see this as an opportunity and not an obstacle.
You have better equipment, than what they had plus some'' create it yourself....You can do it, if you put your mind to it.
So get busy, what's the problem you have the solution. encourage yourself.
Great point..sky's the limit.
Old 26th March 2010
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyMike View Post
That's why the drum kit selling cats can GTFOH, seriously. Like Philly has sad numerous times, a great track is a whole lot more than using another producers "banging" drums. Like on that Bedrock track in another thread. Do you think somebody is gonna buy that or download it, lol. The track has no replay value. The track is an entire loop with the same lame sounds that every other track from them has in it. Each rapper on the track has the same flow just a different voice.
i think people over-romanticize the 90s. Yes, it was the golden era of hip hop, but it was also the death of the deejay. people stopped using scratch hooks and going for vocals, which sounded kind of repetitive to me.

also, LOTS of the dopest tracks used one repetitive loop for the entire song, but in that case they turned on the filters for the verses and had unfiltered chorus to get a fuller sound. "Who got the Props?" and "Bucktown", which were both anthems, are two examples.
Old 26th March 2010
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fooloof View Post
i think people over-romanticize the 90s. Yes, it was the golden era of hip hop, but it was also the death of the deejay. people stopped using scratch hooks and going for vocals, which sounded kind of repetitive to me.
I think you are referring to the latter part of the 90's that was the end of "The Golden Age." I think you are referring to the Mo' Money Mo' Problems, Shiny Suit, Popping Crystal, era.
Old 26th March 2010
  #20
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phillysoulman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by excLOUsiv View Post
And you can't stick it to the man when he's paying for your gold fronts, tats, coke, weed, video hoes, expensive cars, alimony & child support payments, tight jeans, body guards, misc. legal fees, and last but not least...your huge gold pendant of anything from Fonzi Bear to a giant box of Kellogs.
Q-- Did The Temptations and The Four Tops have` all of that crap??
A--Nope. They had longevity.
Old 26th March 2010
  #21
Mikey, I have a similar tone to Lloyd as well, so does that mean that I can be the next MJ? heh
Old 26th March 2010
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Lago View Post
Mikey, I have a similar tone to Lloyd as well, so does that mean that I can be the next MJ? heh
I think so. You're white too!
Old 26th March 2010
  #23
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KevWest's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon Freeze View Post
Sample clearance issues really hollowed out core hip-hop. The time it takes and overall cost..especially in an era where sales are waaay down make it not practical. Plus huge publishing percentages even if you do get a sample cleared. I personally know somebody that had to sign away 85% on a replay..not even a sample.

Also...censorship..has really killed the content allowed in most 'hip-hop' releases. A record company is not going to put big money into a group like Public Enemy these days. I've read of record companies making artists pull songs from albums due to content. Also, radio stations with 'do not play lists', etc.

I liked hip hop when it was a gladiator arena..where those who paid dues and proved themselves through TALENT were rewarded with opportunities. Now the whole situation is a free-for-all..and any critic of said garbage is a 'hater'. Basically, there's no incentive to be creative or original if clones are the ones being rewarded. There's exceptions though..great connections can do a lot for somebody.

I'll admit as well I have dabbled in 'mainstream' rap/hip-hop in the last few years..but that stuff is nonsense because you need connections and resources to compete with big record companies. By the time most cats adapt to trends and attempt to compete..that sht is already old and the industry has moved on to the next bubbling trend.

But realistically..almost every genre of music has been negatively affected by corporate influence..so..it's nothing new really.

ha ha..oh yeah..there's room for everything.



Great point..sky's the limit.
Im not even so much talking about samples or even the 90s era. I think samples are important for hip hop but even further than that I mean the sound itself. If you ask a lot of kids about rappers they may refer to Akon or T Pain. I had a kid last week ask me about hip hop producers in the 90s and what they used that didnt involve sampling and then he brought up Dallas Austin I was like wtf! The problem is that nowadays the lines between hip hop pop and r&b aren't very clear anymore I believe its because all 3 genres are built to sound like a pop record. Sterile, clean and no real aggression in the music. Everyone is too buddy buddy now. this is a male dominated genre thats full of estrogen these days. Y
Old 26th March 2010
  #24
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KevWest's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fooloof View Post
i think people over-romanticize the 90s. Yes, it was the golden era of hip hop, but it was also the death of the deejay. people stopped using scratch hooks and going for vocals, which sounded kind of repetitive to me.

also, LOTS of the dopest tracks used one repetitive loop for the entire song, but in that case they turned on the filters for the verses and had unfiltered chorus to get a fuller sound. "Who got the Props?" and "Bucktown", which were both anthems, are two examples.
i loved the 90s but this thread isnt about that so much its like when 2000 hit everything went plastic sounding wheres the grit in music these days
Old 26th March 2010
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWest View Post
i loved the 90s but this thread isnt about that so much its like when 2000 hit everything went plastic sounding wheres the grit in music these days
It's in the arenas where people aren't making any money or very little of it, and are getting no mainstream exposure. Basically, the "do it for the love" types, or the couple exceptions that have strong almost cult like support like Madlib and Doom. These dudes are extreme examples though. They could drop an album that's nothing but sp-1200 sampled farts and their core audience will love it, extoll the artistic virtues of the project, and buy it on every format. It's not a lot of people, but enough to keep their careers bubbling over a very long time.
Old 26th March 2010
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by excLOUsiv View Post
I think you are referring to the latter part of the 90's that was the end of "The Golden Age." I think you are referring to the Mo' Money Mo' Problems, Shiny Suit, Popping Crystal, era.
nah, b; i'm talking about the zenith of the 90s, the early to middle. case in point, "Scenario", perhaps the most celebrated song of that period. it had zero scratching as well as a repetitive loop that played the whole time except for drop outs on the drums.
Old 26th March 2010
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWest View Post
i loved the 90s but this thread isnt about that so much its like when 2000 hit everything went plastic sounding wheres the grit in music these days
true dat, but i don't think cats back then were really looking for the grit; it was just there. the technology was different, both in production and recording equipment. also, the times were different. everybody had a job and money in they pocket.

ever go to southern kitchen on 6th and sprague?
Old 26th March 2010
  #28
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damn im not even 26 yet, but I dont care what anyone says I miss that era of music and ill keep doing it.... thank you and goodnight or morning.
Old 26th March 2010
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fooloof View Post
nah, b; i'm talking about the zenith of the 90s, the early to middle. case in point, "Scenario", perhaps the most celebrated song of that period. it had zero scratching as well as a repetitive loop that played the whole time except for drop outs on the drums.
But at the same time the classic Gangstarr albums were dropping then which was chock full of that. Not every song in the glory days of Hip Hop history had scratches and scratched vocal hooks. Scratched vocal hooks was pretty much Primo's specialty. He was THE dude that was mostly doing it. Keep in mind I'm not saying he was the only dude.
Old 26th March 2010
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fooloof View Post
true dat, but i don't think cats back then were really looking for the grit; it was just there. the technology was different, both in production and recording equipment. also, the times were different. everybody had a job and money in they pocket.

ever go to southern kitchen on 6th and sprague?
Regardless if the equipment of today is clean, when you listen to records that are mixed by the best engineers, they still have that familar old school thickness and grit to them. There's just too many producers and engineers that don't know shyt about how a record is suppose to sound but yet continue to make music. Now, of course, with the palette of tools available today you can create your own sound and texture. This should be the direction every producer and engineer should be heading in. The new sound both musically and sonically. The first one to do this will be the next big thing smoking. Notice how every decade have a certain sound to it. Well, the 2000-2010 didn't have one. Go figure. The only thing changed was the rediculous loudness and brightness of recordings.
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