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Cubase 5 or Sonar 8 for Hip-Hop? Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 3rd December 2009
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeuceyBaby View Post
well anyone in the music business cant complain about downloading music if they pirate software
Both sides of the story have great points. Anyone who's been in retail on both the purchasing and sales side knows how mark-up and competition works. This changed my idea of buying completely. Yes, I do shop around... but I also don't mind paying a few extra dollars for service and to support someone who needs it.

I will personally buy software, even though I would love it to be free. I also know that I can't expect a free product to be as good as something you'll purchase. This applies in any industry.
Old 3rd December 2009
  #62
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audioguynyc's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Technician View Post
Both sides of the story have great points. Anyone who's been in retail on both the purchasing and sales side knows how mark-up and competition works. This changed my idea of buying completely. Yes, I do shop around... but I also don't mind paying a few extra dollars for service and to support someone who needs it.

I will personally buy software, even though I would love it to be free. I also know that I can't expect a free product to be as good as something you'll purchase. This applies in any industry.

+1, and I will tell you why.


if its a good value, I will buy it. I have legal copies of everything I use regularly. and if its bad, just as with hardware, I will get rid of it, never buy from that company again, and tell everyone how crappy that peice of gear was. Just blaze bashed the MPC 5K on his blog, and Akai has been eternally apologizing ever since.

Like I said, if its good software and everyone downloads it, then the developers will have no reason to make it anymore, just as with music. buying music is like voting, if you don't support the music you like, clearly telling the labels: "HEY! THIS IS WHAT YOU SHOULD MAKE MORE OF!" then you have no right to complain about the crappy pop records on the radio. the reason those records are on the radio are because 2 or 3 million people will actually go out and buy those records because of its sheer popularity. So you as the consumer lost out by downloading, as did your favorite specific genre artist which you like, who got dropped because 650,000 people downloaded his album and only 5 thousand people bought it.

However I have no shame in using pirated waves plugin bundles however, they should be the ones who are ashamed for trying to charge 14 thousand dollars for a computer script and expecting me to pay for it. Excuse my french, but Get that m******f*******s*** the hell outta here. dfegad
Old 3rd December 2009
  #63
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Nahuel's Avatar
 

I dislike both: sonar is ugly, there's a dialog box for everything and tons of icons everywhere, super cluttered. Cubase is better but still too much stuff, limited routing, last time I cheked there was that "vst rack" audio tracks, midi tracks, it was like you need to build a whole template to drop a simple vsti...
Old 3rd December 2009
  #64
Here for the gear
 
StratMatt22's Avatar
 

<i>
I dislike both: sonar is ugly, there's a dialog box for everything and tons of icons everywhere, super cluttered. Cubase is better but still too much stuff, limited routing, last time I cheked there was that "vst rack" audio tracks, midi tracks, it was like you need to build a whole template to drop a simple vsti...</I>


Nah way Sonar is the easiest to look at out of all of them. Cubase makes me feel like im playing with some fisherprice toy and the routing options SUCK compared to Sonar's virtually unlimited abilities. Pro tools is what I call ugly. Its like working on a windows 3.1 program. Sonar 8 is so fast and efficient its sick. And if you spent more than a second on it you would realize that every single toolbar and menu in the program is customizable to fit your specific workflow needs, so you can get rid of any icon you dont ever use FOREVER. Sure its nice if its exactly the way you need it right out of the box but honestly what program is? With like 30min of your time you can permanently design your sonar layouts and save all your favorite templates and views for instant recall for any future project. Saves me so much time and frustration.

I used to use Cubase 4 when I bought my firestudio because I couldnt get it working with my pirated sonar which I had been useing since cakewalk pro audio days but ever since I laid down money for the legit sonar 8(best decision ever + free 8.5 upgrade = heaven) I havnt gone back. Cubase was amazingly fun to work with and a very capable program, especially compared to my hacked Sonar 4, but sonar 8 is just unreal compared to either.

I just custom built a pc with a phenom 2 quad core cpu, 2 x 500gb 32mb cache hd, vista 64, and 8 gigs of ram. Sonar runs without a hitch. I record 8 tracks at once at 24bit x 96khz. I regularly find myself working with 50 track projects and with Sonar's highly customizable console view + loads of track icons, this is actually FUN to do for once compared to Cubase which i found myself CONSTANTLY struggling with getting all the stuff onscreen at once that I needed at any given time. These are just a few of the things that really matter to me that I have noticed. Not to mention Sonar's 64bit mix engine made all my recorded audio sound so much better than cubase. Whether thats possible or not Im not too sure, but *I* noticed. The cubase EQ is way to phasey sounding for me too and I really try to stick to a daw's builtin EQ's because it is usually integrated way better than having to toss a new plug on every track. Or maybe thats just because Sonar has a little EQ graph plot for each track's builtin EQ on the console view which makes it really easy to glance at all your tracks' eq settings to get a general idea of whats going on in the blink of an eye. I dont have to bring up each seperate EQ to check em against each other which saves me tons of time and headache.

I know I sound biased and sure am to an extent, but to be honest, sonar 8 takes a lot of unwarrented heat in my experience. I got 8 and the free 8.5 upgrade for $180 new (studio version, I have my own vst's already which are comparable to producer exclusives) when cakewalk was doing a $100 rebate offer and I had a 10% guitarcenter coupon. Probably the most fullfilling gear investment Ive ever made. Im no pro but I am advancing fast, and with Sonar I feel like I can create whatever sonic landscape my clients want. The only thing I felt I needed to acquire pluginwise after my purchase was Ozone 4 so I could do some "mastering" on all my mixed tracks, which Sonar handles perfectly.

Now as far as hiphop is concerned. Even Sonar 8 Studio comes with enough vst's to keep you busy for a long time. Not to mention midi is better than ever before + step sequencer + audio snap + matrix view(producer only) + simple softsynth tracks. Admittedly Im not big into midi and most of the hiphop I mix for local artists here is already compiled into a stereo beat track or seperate instrument audio files, but I did make a lot of beats when I used to **** with FL, and when I got Sonar 8 I decided to try my hand and it was like night and day compared to FL. And it sounded at least 5000x better.

In short, I fly around so fast in Sonar Im not even really paying attention to the screen. My hands just smash out keyboard shortcuts and quick mouse flicks based on what my ear is hearing at that exact moment. The program stays out of my way and really when it comes down to it, that is all that matters to me. It can seem intimidating at first but only because there is SO MUCH functionality. You just need to know exactly what it is you want to do and learn. Then its like riding a bike. Any program is going to take practice, but for the price + quality, nothing beats it IMO. A+ support too. Ill be first in line for Sonar 9.

My 2 cents haha...Sonar just makes my workday so much more enjoyable its like I litterally cant wait to move a fader as soon as I get home!
Old 3rd December 2009
  #65
Here for the gear
 

I Use Cubase 5 and I make Hiphop music for a swedish rap-group called BigDif! My music can be found at http://www.bigdifmusic.com
Old 3rd December 2009
  #66
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Nahuel's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by StratMatt22 View Post
Sure its nice if its exactly the way you need it right out of the box but honestly what program is?
Ableton
Old 3rd December 2009
  #67
Gear Addict
 
PeeWeeGee's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by StratMatt22 View Post
<i>
I dislike both: sonar is ugly, there's a dialog box for everything and tons of icons everywhere, super cluttered. Cubase is better but still too much stuff, limited routing, last time I cheked there was that "vst rack" audio tracks, midi tracks, it was like you need to build a whole template to drop a simple vsti...</I>


Nah way Sonar is the easiest to look at out of all of them. Cubase makes me feel like im playing with some fisherprice toy and the routing options SUCK compared to Sonar's virtually unlimited abilities. Pro tools is what I call ugly. Its like working on a windows 3.1 program. Sonar 8 is so fast and efficient its sick. And if you spent more than a second on it you would realize that every single toolbar and menu in the program is customizable to fit your specific workflow needs, so you can get rid of any icon you dont ever use FOREVER. Sure its nice if its exactly the way you need it right out of the box but honestly what program is? With like 30min of your time you can permanently design your sonar layouts and save all your favorite templates and views for instant recall for any future project. Saves me so much time and frustration.

I used to use Cubase 4 when I bought my firestudio because I couldnt get it working with my pirated sonar which I had been useing since cakewalk pro audio days but ever since I laid down money for the legit sonar 8(best decision ever + free 8.5 upgrade = heaven) I havnt gone back. Cubase was amazingly fun to work with and a very capable program, especially compared to my hacked Sonar 4, but sonar 8 is just unreal compared to either.

I just custom built a pc with a phenom 2 quad core cpu, 2 x 500gb 32mb cache hd, vista 64, and 8 gigs of ram. Sonar runs without a hitch. I record 8 tracks at once at 24bit x 96khz. I regularly find myself working with 50 track projects and with Sonar's highly customizable console view + loads of track icons, this is actually FUN to do for once compared to Cubase which i found myself CONSTANTLY struggling with getting all the stuff onscreen at once that I needed at any given time. These are just a few of the things that really matter to me that I have noticed. Not to mention Sonar's 64bit mix engine made all my recorded audio sound so much better than cubase. Whether thats possible or not Im not too sure, but *I* noticed. The cubase EQ is way to phasey sounding for me too and I really try to stick to a daw's builtin EQ's because it is usually integrated way better than having to toss a new plug on every track. Or maybe thats just because Sonar has a little EQ graph plot for each track's builtin EQ on the console view which makes it really easy to glance at all your tracks' eq settings to get a general idea of whats going on in the blink of an eye. I dont have to bring up each seperate EQ to check em against each other which saves me tons of time and headache.

I know I sound biased and sure am to an extent, but to be honest, sonar 8 takes a lot of unwarrented heat in my experience. I got 8 and the free 8.5 upgrade for $180 new (studio version, I have my own vst's already which are comparable to producer exclusives) when cakewalk was doing a $100 rebate offer and I had a 10% guitarcenter coupon. Probably the most fullfilling gear investment Ive ever made. Im no pro but I am advancing fast, and with Sonar I feel like I can create whatever sonic landscape my clients want. The only thing I felt I needed to acquire pluginwise after my purchase was Ozone 4 so I could do some "mastering" on all my mixed tracks, which Sonar handles perfectly.

Now as far as hiphop is concerned. Even Sonar 8 Studio comes with enough vst's to keep you busy for a long time. Not to mention midi is better than ever before + step sequencer + audio snap + matrix view(producer only) + simple softsynth tracks. Admittedly Im not big into midi and most of the hiphop I mix for local artists here is already compiled into a stereo beat track or seperate instrument audio files, but I did make a lot of beats when I used to **** with FL, and when I got Sonar 8 I decided to try my hand and it was like night and day compared to FL. And it sounded at least 5000x better.

In short, I fly around so fast in Sonar Im not even really paying attention to the screen. My hands just smash out keyboard shortcuts and quick mouse flicks based on what my ear is hearing at that exact moment. The program stays out of my way and really when it comes down to it, that is all that matters to me. It can seem intimidating at first but only because there is SO MUCH functionality. You just need to know exactly what it is you want to do and learn. Then its like riding a bike. Any program is going to take practice, but for the price + quality, nothing beats it IMO. A+ support too. Ill be first in line for Sonar 9.

My 2 cents haha...Sonar just makes my workday so much more enjoyable its like I litterally cant wait to move a fader as soon as I get home!
I've been tinkering with it on a friend's system. I have to say that I'm impressed with how far Cakewalk has come since I last used CW Pro 8. SONAR is a very competitive product. User feedback is pretty strong, too.
Cubase takes a thrasing on their forums - daily! Although the VariAudio feature is quite nice.

I was STUNNED that Cakewalk announced the new feature list/bug fixes publicly for v8.5.2. That is a ballsy maneuver on an active forum. But it also shows a certain level of commitment and communication that I certainly don't see from Apple or Steinberg.

Last questions - What are your max AUDIO track counts with the system described above (or anyone else willing to chime in)? I can drive Logic HARD at 64samples buffer setting before audio starts to glitch on my Mac Pro.

Can you set up "autoload" templates (complete with FX and VSTi's) in SONAR, including ACT controllers? That was over my buddy's head since he's still pretty nice to the program.

Peace -
PWG
Old 7th December 2009
  #68
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SeniorityFedup's Avatar
 

dang strattmatt, good to hear a review in favor of sonar 8 in good description, i was gettin worried that some ppl dont get to use the best daw out there because of their choice made. but sounds like sonar is pullin thru! I love midi too much maybe . although i dont belive in laying midi tracks for instruments that some one else could play (specifically orchestral instruments) and cubase does not leave me limited in that aspect.
Old 7th December 2009
  #69
Registered User
 
audioguynyc's Avatar
 

And what about nuendo? the only reason you don't like it cant be the user interface
Old 8th December 2009
  #70
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Illmo's Avatar
 

Propellerhead reason/Record hands down the easiest, most stable, best sound Recording program an ARTIST(not necessarily engineer) can get their hands on.
Old 8th December 2009
  #71
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Lofty's Avatar
 

Is there really much of an advantage in using Nuendo over Cubase? I own Cubase 5. I heard Nuendo is good if you are working with video and maybe massive Orchestras?
Old 8th December 2009
  #72
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audioguynyc's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lofty View Post
Is there really much of an advantage in using Nuendo over Cubase? I own Cubase 5. I heard Nuendo is good if you are working with video and maybe massive Orchestras?
havent ever used it, but from what I hear, it is a big difference.
Old 8th December 2009
  #73
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SeniorityFedup's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lofty View Post
Is there really much of an advantage in using Nuendo over Cubase? I own Cubase 5. I heard Nuendo is good if you are working with video and maybe massive Orchestras?
Nuendo has a bunch of format licensing for video that you pay for($$).Another advantage the way nuendo is designed to work with your cpu efficiently (works within the core or something making it less a cpu hog than cubase)more stability that way than cubase in this processing. Also come with an extra console view (no big deal). The audio engine is the same and you get a few more tools. You will haveto purchase an expansion pack for midi functionality. Some one correct me if im wrong but i heard that quite a few times but its odd to believe. It would make sense tho since they are for different uses. One being for music production and the other for post production.
Old 9th December 2009
  #74
Here for the gear
 

Personally I use Sonar because I like it, I have learned to use it, I get good quality tracks, I don't have to use a specific manufacturer for my interface or some other required hardware, I am a PC guy, I can use all of my plug-ins without having to convert them, it never crashes on me, editing is a piece of cake, I can easily export WAV files if someone else wants to mix a song (which I am sure all DAWs can do).

I think at the end of the day its a personal preference. In fact, I have taken Sonar tracks from home to a couple pro studios in my area (which use PT of course) and they ended up in the mix no problem. Because I am primarily a musician first, I need something reliable and easy to use to get tracks down without a bunch of work-arounds.

.....just my two cents.
Old 11th December 2009
  #75
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by muzaco View Post
In fact, I have taken Sonar tracks from home to a couple pro studios in my area (which use PT of course) and they ended up in the mix no problem.
Why wouldn't they? I mean unless they were just very poorly recorded. Sonar has very little to do with any of that.
Old 11th December 2009
  #76
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCodie View Post
Well I have been using Cubase 5 for maybe almost 2 months now, but I wanted to know if I should switch over.

YES.
Old 11th December 2009
  #77
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trell Blaze View Post
Cubase 5 has MANY more features and updates. You'd probably have to visit steinberg.com to find a comparison chart.

Cubase 5 is full of bugs. I know cause I own it-no not the cracked copy.
And Steinberg's support is legendary for being the WORST.

Those are the facts.
Old 11th December 2009
  #78
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by isawsasquatch View Post
I'd go with Cubase 4.3.1 because it has the best-sounding summing engine for when it comes to hip hop.

Also, I saw a YouTube video wit both Dre and Wayne's engineer, and they were using Cubase 4.3.1.

Rubbish...THIS provides the summing:

Dangerous Music Introduces...

Summing is done in through analog processing-not DAWs.

Doesn't matter WHAT DAW you use as long as you're recording in 44.1 at least and using 24 bit depth.
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