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Do Pop and Hip Hop Producers record at slower tempo?
Old 13th November 2009
  #1
Do Pop and Hip Hop Producers record at slower tempo?

I'm wondering if a lot of these pop/hiphop/rnb tracks are recorded at a slightly slower tempo and then they speed the tempo up afterward.

Does anyone know if the majors do that?
- I'm thinking songs kinda like "whatcha say" and "replay"
Old 13th November 2009
  #2
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whatcha say is sampled from imogen heap's hide and seek (which is on the low side of midtempo to begin with), the sample is sped up and pitched up, and the final result is a high midtempo song. They wouldn't record the whole song and speed up though, unless it's very subtle, timestretching creates artifacts that would be especially evident in the vocals.
Old 13th November 2009
  #3
..

Oh... Damn, I didn't even know that was sampled. That's cool, thanks for lettin me know.
Old 13th November 2009
  #4
Old 13th November 2009
  #5
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A lot of hip hop joints fall between 80-100 bpm.
R&B ballads usually fall between 65-75 bpm leaning towards the lower numbers.

Club joints usually fall between 100-125 bpm.
Euro style joints betwwen 120 and 140 bpm.

These are just arbitrary numbers and song and lyric dependent.

However,if you are smoking a joint,then its an entirely different situation depending on the grade of weed you copped.
Old 13th November 2009
  #6
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillysoulman View Post
A lot of hip hop joints fall between 80-100 bpm.
R&B ballads usually fall between 65-75 bpm leaning towards the lower numbers.

Club joints usually fall between 100-125 bpm.
Euro style joints betwwen 120 and 140 bpm.

These are just arbitrary numbers and song and lyric dependent.
No but he actually meant if a track is recorded at 100bpm and then they put it faster with a time strecher, at 107bpm for example.

I don't think producers would track slow then speed up the songs.
Old 13th November 2009
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayberry View Post
Oh... Damn, I didn't even know that was sampled. That's cool, thanks for lettin me know.
cringe
Old 13th November 2009
  #8
Gear Maniac
 

Nah, Fam. No one's making the beats at a low BPM, then speeding them up! Atleast I hope I never run across a "professional" who does...
Old 13th November 2009
  #9
Gear Maniac
 

yea i do it sometimes.
Old 13th November 2009
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rizeup7 View Post
Nah, Fam. No one's making the beats at a low BPM, then speeding them up! Atleast I hope I never run across a "professional" who does...
The Underdogs have been known to do it with vocals, actually.

I believe it's an old Mowtown trick (jackson 5 and such).

As I understand it, it's something they very rarely do though and only when they're looking for a certain style or effect...
Old 13th November 2009
  #11
I do it in 2 cases:


a) writing songs for singers in a range that's not comfortable for me.. i'll write for a high pitched female, with the song transposed down a couple steps.. maybe more. then i shift all back up (never change tempo.. midi stuff and/or timestretch)
but I always shift it for the DEMO, and "real" tempo/pitch is where it begins&ends.. the shifted pitch is a temporary place.
I don't change the tempo!

b) recording a song intended to be samples (ie, recording live instruments, mixing as if it was a song, then sampling that into another song and transposing it)
Old 13th November 2009
  #12
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Kayo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lrmusic View Post
whatcha say is sampled from imogen heap's hide and seek (which is on the low side of midtempo to begin with), the sample is sped up and pitched up, and the final result is a high midtempo song. They wouldn't record the whole song and speed up though, unless it's very subtle, timestretching creates artifacts that would be especially evident in the vocals.
Ditto!
I doubt they do that. I myself, do loads of pitch shifting and stuff, … But, not record normal and key up for the final release etc.. never!
Many bed tracks are pitch shifted in Acid many a times, and keys or backing vox, even by second guitar lead parts, doing harmonies after they were recorded etc.
In Acid, drums sound mighty fat, when brought down a couple of semi tones. Give that a go, if looking for Fatness. Bye mate

KAyo
Old 13th November 2009
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenlotus View Post
cringe
lol why you acting like an imogen heap fan right now
Old 13th November 2009
  #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lrmusic View Post
whatcha say is sampled from imogen heap's hide and seek (which is on the low side of midtempo to begin with), the sample is sped up and pitched up, and the final result is a high midtempo song.
I dont think they sampled that. I think they had someone "re-sing" it, maybe placed on a pad and triggered "wha, wha, wha, what did she say"

Reason I say that is because the original sampled voice "sounded" older. like it was an older version, the artifacts of the sound sounded older. You listen to the new version and it sounds like a young chick they hired to come in and sing that part plus you didnt hear any music in the background of the voice sample, where the original had music playing when that part came.
Old 13th November 2009
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rallycapmusic View Post
I dont think they sampled that. I think they had someone "re-sing" it, maybe placed on a pad and triggered "wha, wha, wha, what did she say"

Reason I say that is because the original sampled voice "sounded" older. like it was an older version, the artifacts of the sound sounded older. You listen to the new version and it sounds like a young chick they hired to come in and sing that part plus you didnt hear any music in the background of the voice sample, where the original had music playing when that part came.
You sure? Sounds distinctly like Imogen herself to me. The pseudovocoded elements are still in there too. And is 2005 (when hide and seek came out) really that long ago that you can hear the artifacts.
Old 13th November 2009
  #16
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Now that we are on the topic, here are some lesser known (non-single) Imogen Heap songs that are pretty sick =)

This one is kind of a precursor to Nelly Furtado's newer instrumental style, and has some Shakiraesque elements in the vocals.
YouTube - Imogen Heap - Rake It In

Love the melody on this one
YouTube - Imogen Heap The Walk

Reminds me of the movie Aeon Flux for some reason:
YouTube - clear the area
Old 13th November 2009
  #17
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bobsandifer's Avatar
 

This was pretty common for us "tape threaders" back in the day but it would be an absolute pain with a DAW. I worked with one pretty popular R&B act that would record vocals at a slightly slower speed.
Old 13th November 2009
  #18
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Raider's Avatar
 

I'll bump up tempo to add energy towards the end of a song, maybe the final chorus or maybe the entire song if it needs it. You can only get away with this up to about 4 bpm before it starts degrading.
Old 13th November 2009
  #19
Quote:
Originally Posted by rizeup7 View Post
Nah, Fam. No one's making the beats at a low BPM, then speeding them up! Atleast I hope I never run across a "professional" who does...
Par for the course in all kinds of classic recordings. Everything from Beatles to Motown, Boston to the Stones. It's nothing new, nor does it necessarily have anything to do with one's professionalism.
Old 13th November 2009
  #20
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bgrotto is right all genres of music do it but in hip-hop dramatic tempo changes are not as common because it goes against the original "simple-beat" nature of the music.

When it is done:

it is very commonly done where an intro (especially if it has a sample) to be slower than the rest of the songs by a few bpms to create a more dramatic lead-in effect

it is also very commonly done to change the snare from "2" and "4" to only on the "3" keeping the tempo the same to give the illusion of a slower tempo usually done for a breakdown.

another wild left-field example is if you've heard of a producer/rapper named madlib: he will make a beat that's really slow then rap over it at that tempo, speed and pitch it up (now a "normal" tempo beat + high pitched voice rapping) then rap over it again in his normal voice and call the high-pitched voice his alter-ego "quasimoto."

YouTube - Quasimoto "Boom Music"
Old 14th November 2009
  #21
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhodesp04 View Post

another wild left-field example is if you've heard of a producer/rapper named madlib: he will make a beat that's really slow then rap over it at that tempo, speed and pitch it up (now a "normal" tempo beat + high pitched voice rapping) then rap over it again in his normal voice and call the high-pitched voice his alter-ego "quasimoto."

YouTube - Quasimoto "Boom Music"
That song was awesome. I think that style of vocal he used to get to his "alter-ego" was used on a Our Lady Peace track off of the album Spiritual Machines to make a robot kind of voice.
I'm a noob so reading this thread was pretty enlightening to me!
Old 14th November 2009
  #22
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhodesp04 View Post
bgrotto is right all genres of music do it but in hip-hop dramatic tempo changes are not as common because it goes against the original "simple-beat" nature of the music.

When it is done:

it is very commonly done where an intro (especially if it has a sample) to be slower than the rest of the songs by a few bpms to create a more dramatic lead-in effect

it is also very commonly done to change the snare from "2" and "4" to only on the "3" keeping the tempo the same to give the illusion of a slower tempo usually done for a breakdown.

another wild left-field example is if you've heard of a producer/rapper named madlib: he will make a beat that's really slow then rap over it at that tempo, speed and pitch it up (now a "normal" tempo beat + high pitched voice rapping) then rap over it again in his normal voice and call the high-pitched voice his alter-ego "quasimoto."

YouTube - Quasimoto "Boom Music"
You totally misinterpreted his question... he's not talking about tempo changes in a song.
Old 14th November 2009
  #23
Dor
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Dor's Avatar
 

It's very common for two track masters to be sped up a bit to add energy.

D
Old 14th November 2009
  #24
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HoPMiX's Avatar
i speed shit up all the time its amazing how 3-5 bpm can totally change a record. good and bad
Old 14th November 2009
  #25
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PeeWeeGee's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoPMiX View Post
i speed shit up all the time its amazing how 3-5 bpm can totally change a record. good and bad
+1

Covered the action and reasoning in one concise statement!
Old 14th November 2009
  #26
Gear Addict
 
Left Headphone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lrmusic View Post
Now that we are on the topic, here are some lesser known (non-single) Imogen Heap songs that are pretty sick =)

This one is kind of a precursor to Nelly Furtado's newer instrumental style, and has some Shakiraesque elements in the vocals.
YouTube - Imogen Heap - Rake It In

Love the melody on this one
YouTube - Imogen Heap The Walk

Reminds me of the movie Aeon Flux for some reason:
YouTube - clear the area
I was wandering what happened to Alanis Morissette...
Old 16th November 2009
  #27
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datniggabeon1's Avatar
 

you can record at any tempo,,,u can double time at 40bpms or 160 bpms, u can even record at a million bpms depending on where the snares and kicks are at
Old 16th November 2009
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by datniggabeon1 View Post
you can record at any tempo,,,u can double time at 40bpms or 160 bpms, u can even record at a million bpms depending on where the snares and kicks are at
It's not a good habit to double tempos because it severely limits your quantization options. True vets know what I'm talking about. And guy, please change that ignorant screenname. "DatNigga"
Old 16th November 2009
  #29
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Lrmusic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Left Headphone View Post
I was wandering what happened to Alanis Morissette...
The 2000s...after going diamond isn't it ironic heh? I'm not a huge fan of her vocal style though.
Old 16th November 2009
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillysoulman View Post
A lot of hip hop joints fall between 80-100 bpm.
R&B ballads usually fall between 65-75 bpm leaning towards the lower numbers.

Club joints usually fall between 100-125 bpm.
Euro style joints betwwen 120 and 140 bpm.

These are just arbitrary numbers and song and lyric dependent.

However,if you are smoking a joint,then its an entirely different situation depending on the grade of weed you copped.
I'm not 100% but i think this dude^ is white just saying
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