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Pete Rock Petestrumentals drums : how the hell did they do ?!!
Old 3rd September 2005
  #31
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That's an interesting idea, but it would be different than this method. PR edits his samples this way. I think I may be able to find the article where I read this. I'm looking.
Old 3rd September 2005
  #32
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ttauri's Avatar
 

So he's actually tacking separate noise on, or is it just that he trims his samples with some extra width on the starts & ends?

Peece,
T. Tauri
Old 3rd September 2005
  #33
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ttauri's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by juicemaster1500
I dig beat no 2 on the sound clip, anyone know what that song's called?
"Pete's Jazz" off the first Petestrumentals LP.

Peece,
T. Tauri
Old 4th September 2005
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttauri
So he's actually tacking separate noise on, or is it just that he trims his samples with some extra width on the starts & ends?

Peece,
T. Tauri
Yes, he's taking some record noise and adding it to the beginning and ending of his samples. That way it doesn't sound like you're just using a drum machine or keyboard.

I think they're talking about doing this w/ samples that they've already lifted off vinyl, though you could do it w/ any sample. Not that I've done a lot of sampling, but I imagine sometimes you cut it pretty close to the beat to avoid getting other stuff on there. So then by adding some record noise back to the sample, it sounds more natural. Pretty cool actually!

Let's see if I can locate that article and maybe I can add more details, if there are any. That's the basic trick though. Just mess with it until it sounds good.
Old 17th July 2007
  #35
DAH
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DAH's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdunn View Post
Yes, he's taking some record noise and adding it to the beginning and ending of his samples. That way it doesn't sound like you're just using a drum machine or keyboard.

I think they're talking about doing this w/ samples that they've already lifted off vinyl, though you could do it w/ any sample. Not that I've done a lot of sampling, but I imagine sometimes you cut it pretty close to the beat to avoid getting other stuff on there. So then by adding some record noise back to the sample, it sounds more natural. Pretty cool actually!

Let's see if I can locate that article and maybe I can add more details, if there are any. That's the basic trick though. Just mess with it until it sounds good.
It`s an old topic, nevertheless a very informative one...
I wonder if they blend in noise at the start/end of the sample or add it, because if the noise is just put in front of say a kick, then the triggered kick will always be late.
Old 19th July 2007
  #36
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u r also hearing ANALOG. console, outboard, maybe even tape at that time, and an experienced engineer.
Old 19th July 2007
  #37
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fn86's Avatar
 

the noise thing, does he ad this to drums that he samples or are you refering more to nondrum samples that he lifts?
Old 19th July 2007
  #38
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The noise thing is sample chopping 101

The goal is to mask or cover the silence between truncated samples with ambiance from the same source.

It's not hard to get your drums to sound like petestrumentals...just chop the same breakbeats he did.

I know all lot of cats nowadays are lazy and just want to download some pre-chopped drum kits.

Trust me it's worth the time to go down to your local old record store and at least hit the dollar bin.

You'll probably find something that Pete Rock hasn't used, but would want to.

Of course you could always get those bootleg comps like Pete's Treats that has a bunch of joints he sampled.

That way you can at least see how he flipped a particular sample
Old 19th July 2007
  #39
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fn86's Avatar
 

so the the thing works best with noise taken from the same source?
Old 19th July 2007
  #40
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ONE LUV's Avatar
 

damn just do your own. get ****in noize from same records, other records, drive the noize through any amp and boost frequencies you like most...use filter...there is so much you can do with noize to get the sound you want...just do!

it´s art, not a science!
Old 19th July 2007
  #41
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Chaotic's Avatar
 

am I the only one not following this whole adding noise thing??

If you're sampling from vinyl (and you dont take good care of your records like me) there's already all sorts of snap crackle and pop going on.

I think maybe what he's talking about is adding vinyl noise to keyboard parts, drum machine loops or guitar parts, to make them sound like sampled records instead of Triton presets. Maybe even adding a little extra crackle on the beginning or end of a sequenced loop, so it falls off beat slightly, giving it that behind the beat feel.

or maybe Im just not reading the previous posts correctly

Last edited by Chaotic; 19th July 2007 at 08:02 PM.. Reason: brainfreeze
Old 20th July 2007
  #42
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Simple math:

SP, DJ mixer (sometimes phone pre), Records..

The science (art) is this:

The SP sample input is noisy to begin with. Additionally, it has very hot output (referring to signal volume). Couple that with records off a Technic (platter noise, tone arm noise in many cases), records themselves (of varying degrees of condition -- chewed up to "fresh out the plastic" steez'), loose truncation (ie. editing your chops to where the start is tight, but leaving the natural reverb tails on the samples), noisy phone pre (as usually cats are using Vestax/Gemini/Rane mixers), phase shifting low quality DJ mixer EQ in some cases, and your 80% of the way there. The polish comes from experienced engineers and high end analog outboard, consoles, and tape. All the usual stars are at work with the classics (1176, LA2A, 160VU, 224/480L, RMX/DMX, API/SSL EQ, etc). Records like Petestrumental are excellent example of why analog recording is so revered. It's got that sound (referring to dimension, width, vibe).

PS. Not to turn this into a debate, but, bit reduction and resampling @ 22.5khz w/ soft samplers etc, is not going to cut it. You want the authentic sound? Buy the authentic gear that created/creates it.
Old 17th February 2008
  #43
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beat 2 on there is **** hot. no doubt.
Old 17th February 2008
  #44
Gear Maniac
 

man this is so good
pete rock definitely one of the best new york hiphop producer
thanks for uploading this
Old 17th February 2008
  #45
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mix-it-well's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sethdk View Post
u r also hearing ANALOG. console, outboard, maybe even tape at that time, and an experienced engineer.
The only two things I can hear is compression on the drums and MAINLY the hard work of Pete.
Old 18th February 2008
  #46
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i think the overall sound of his work, in this period, is the tonal quality of the SP, or if fact any emu samplers of that era that uses SSM2044 filters.
(pete says it molded his career, see vid)



IMO his sound has change a lot since he started using the newer MPC

The mix has a similar use of compression on the kick and snares not uncommon, but it's mainly the SP thats giving it that sound.

If it seems a little bit different to some of the earlier work it may be worth distinguishing which tracks are programmed drums and which are break beat loops.
Old 18th February 2008
  #47
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by juicemaster1500 View Post
Funny that someone should dig Pete Rock because of the drum sound, which imo always has been the weakest part of his productions.

Whats the deal with that Pete Rock HI-HAT??

Anyway, to get that Pete Rock snare and kick I'd chop up some old Meters tracks.

I wouldn't bother with any sp 1200 or s950, I'd just resample the sounds to 12bit and 22,05k samplerate, and put em in a modern soft sampler.

I dig beat no 2 on the sound clip, anyone know what that song's called?
Pete Rock's historically notorious for his drums, because of how hard they hit.
You might be the first person I ever read say his drums were his weak point?

Or are you just not a fan of the fairly simple drum programming?
Old 18th February 2008
  #48
Gear Addict
 

Hey
check this out - pete rock interview
http://remixmag.com/artists/hiphop_R...rotect_defend/
Old 18th February 2008
  #49
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terrytee's Avatar
 

Quote:
Interesting that he should describe the MPC as a thin & dead sound. This is how i always felt about the new akai samplers from the 2000 up.

I guess that the sp may kill some of the high frequencies. Not 100% sure if this is true but it can give almost a muddy sound IMO, of cause this could just be the filters that am hearing.

Just like the 950 i always found samples on the sp12 to all gel together very easily.

12bitjunkie - when i am talking about beatbeats i am referring to looped drums, which he will have sourced himself.
Old 19th February 2008
  #50
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tonymission's Avatar
 

im glad we're using classically produced drum sounds and getting an MP3 version of it in the end ... nothing i love more than fixed, forced, degrading compression /sarcasm

come on bruh -- thanks for the favor but sort us all out with some 24b's, mixed through a big desk, recording into tape.

wanna set yourself apart? sound different!
Old 19th February 2008
  #51
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WideawakE's Avatar
 

one of the best tips I got was to double the BPM's when sequencing with the SP1200 it really helps things fall in place

PETE ROCK is that dude, love his work

over and out
Old 27th February 2008
  #52
Gear Head
 

Haaaaaaa! I was feeling bored as hell till I came across this thread,
very nice discussion that suites my taste indeed! You know whats funny?
You gotta give pete credit, cuz in Feb-2008 cats still discussing his
production techniques and what he might ormight not do..

I dont understand any of that noise added to beginning and end of the sample.
I heard pete saying another weird thing like how he was using the
compression function on an SP and many not even know the sp had compression ??
what the f?

Anyway, maybe he was saying he uses a bit of noise beyond the loop-point and mixing that to the beginning of the sample so when it loops, its smoother sounding..??????????

I was one of the first I believe who said petes beats were getting off and wack when he produced soul survivor. I immediately heard he used an MPC Its just different. I got FLAMED for that!.

btw. that degrading when sampling on an SP and then using the filters, is sort of a
compression right?

Thirdly, and this is my tip. When you mix various sources, like drums of a record,
or loopsample from an 950,
if you degrade the sounds making ALL samples about the same quality, they WILL
blend together, more easily!
This is one of the big mistakes people dont realize when they use PC-sosftware
that uses all clean sounds at 96KHZ 32Bit or the like..
mix in a sample off of vynil and mix it with the stock sounds in reason,
it doesnt quite sound well together.

Pls use good monitors like the Yamaha hs80 wich reveal like any quality difference
between any 2 different records or samples. This is a real useful tool I came to know..
Love em!
Difference between samples on muddy speakers wont tell you how great the difference
between the samples are unless you hear them on a better system.
Just my 2c.

I also wonder how well Pete would do beats when using PC-software!
How much knowledge of sound does he have actualy?
If Im correct, 45 King would be the better producer since he always uses MAC and
must know alot bout dirtying up sounds and getting a better groove out of pc-software..
Old 27th February 2008
  #53
Gear Head
 

Another thing I liked to share is this:

Its my opinion the producers rising from the mid-80's were blessed
by the fact that sampling was so expensive and the technique so new to
musical-production tools. That what these pieces of gear did was make
the best out of a bad situation. The sampling quality was low, so the
machines compensated that by playing back the samples through analog filtering. Trying to re-adjust whats been downgraded.
I always believed that the SP-12 was initialy made to sample drums and
be used as a drum-nachine not a phrase-sample-recorder. The filters
were adjusted to playback lo-fi sampled drums best and make them Phatt.
But as it seemed it also worked on other material too
These machines were also far less tedious to operate then PC-software
and you could get hands on sound and play almost immediately. Like when
you pick up a guitar and just play.
Its my humble opinion PC-software KILLED musicality. And also the groove,
wich these machines already have in them.

Lo-fi lowcost gear just had all these analog quirks that togteher made the
best out of it, and dont forget the engineers who have to redo all
the tonality if its off wich also makes the end result sound nice.
As if you burned chicken in the frying pan and then add a little water,
the result is nice.

Last, and Ill shut up. Do you know these DAP-records?
Its a label that had alot of fame back when (i wasnt even born yet)
They still up now and they try to make records sounding like way back then
The way they try to emulate the sound from back then, is just wrong imo.
ie. Listen to the cds from the dansettes titled "oh my"
The new better technology-but old emulating-gear just isnt that good.
It sounds like they used software degrade plugins or something to compress the
hell out of the bass and drums. Just isnt the same and just sounds awfull..
Old 28th February 2008
  #54
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JaeOne3345's Avatar
 

First off, I am fond of both hardware and software (I started on it an am still very adept when it comes to using it), but to whoever said to just resample and do bit reduction...sorry it's not the same. You can get a ballpark roughness but it's still not the same.

With that said a majority of my favorite hiphop wasn't made on an SP in case anyone thinks I'm on the sp parade.

These days I make beats on anything from ableton, FL, eps16+, sp-1200, s950,etc, but I ALWAYS go back to my sp-1200/s950 combo.

I am currently working on a a track right now that is all sp-1200/s950.

check myspace.com/jaeone3345 ( "Snippet of what's to come")

You can also hear the s950 lowpass being used on the verse parts.

If anyone has any questions let me know. The bottom line is that quality music can be made on anything, but these two guys (sp and 950) do add some nice color/texture. Ease of use is the biggest thing. I am not fond of "auto chop" or any such feature. I always felt as though I had more control making a copy and adjust start and end points.

Regarding the "air" when chopping drums: People are making it out to be the work of a magician. There are numerous ways to do it. What I prefer is to simply set my start point to the exact start of the snare,kick, hat,etc that I am sampling as normal, but I set my end point for that sound right exactly before the beginning of the next drum hit,sound,whatever. This will give you that tail end of air from the original recording.
Old 28th February 2008
  #55
Gear Nut
 

^^ thats some dope hiphop! drums on that are real nice
any tips?
Old 28th February 2008
  #56
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JaeOne3345's Avatar
 

What would you like to know specifically?

I just find drums that are good in the first place. I never layer my drums. I do eq though them before sampling them though.

Another thing I do that's a fairly common procedure is to pitch the drums down a semitone or so once they are in the sp-1200.

I also don't get caught up in all the swing value stuff. I just use a normal tempo, 1/16 Triplet for 90% of my stuff unless I turn quantize off. They key is using multiple velocities for that swingy feeling.

The main loop is just; that a loop. I was gonna chop it but it felt like chopping just for the sake of it. So I just rolled with the loop. Thats just a 950 filter on it.

Scratches: I do those, basic turntable set up.

Vocals: Just me and my bedroom pvc/moving blanket set up. AT4040 into Rane MS1B.

All tracked into PT. Nothing special was done in PT except for delays, etc.

Not much to it really.
Old 28th February 2008
  #57
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Switchcraft's Avatar
 

Petes Drums are the bomb.

Another thing he does (and others) is to pitch up 8 semitones on an MP or whatever (comp) and then in the SP pitch them back down 8 semitones. This A ) saves sample time and B) makes the drums that much more dirty cause you are basically reducing the sample rate even further (sort of).

EQ before you sample too.

I used to do this all the time with my SP. Its easy if you have a MPC too.
Old 28th February 2008
  #58
Gear Nut
 

why eq before you sample,before you chop it up your saying?
so that you are eq'in all the sounds in the drum loop together before chopping?
Old 28th February 2008
  #59
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JaeOne3345's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyDiggs View Post
why eq before you sample,before you chop it up your saying?
so that you are eq'in all the sounds in the drum loop together before chopping?
Yea, I mean whatever source, wav, vinyl etc. If I am taking the kick, I might cut the highs, boost lows, then sample. Then take the snare and eq it til I like what I am hearing in the snare.

Then you can also filter within your machine. Ill assign certain drums to certain outs/filters within the SP.
Old 28th February 2008
  #60
Gear Nut
 

yeah this is what im doing already i got a little confused there
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