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Sampled VS Keyboard beats...
Old 18th June 2009
  #1
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cynic one's Avatar
 

Sampled VS Keyboard beats...

So lately I've been thinking a lot about my production angle. Where I'm coming from, what I'm trying to say. All of that good ****. It got me thinking on a topic that might be relevant for the slutz to discuss.

It seems like even though its 2009 producers still fall into two camps. Sampled or Keyboard beats. You rarely see cats successfully meshing the two and a emcee spitting over it. Often you see cats pigeonholed into one camp other the other. The sample cats get called "backpackers" and the keyboard cats get called "mainstream". (The electronic cats mostly get called weirdos lol.)

I look at dudes coming up like Flying Lotus, or maybe Prefuse73 or the Glitchmob as people executing that style, but it's not often that they have anyone spit over their tracks.

As far as I can see, not a lot of heads are trying to bridge the gap between the two (or three). In your opinion, who is doing that well - and how are they achieving it? ( Blending the trueschool roots with newschool aesthetic. )

Discuss, or talk ****...do whatcha do.
Old 18th June 2009
  #2
Gear Head
 

I will probably get hated on for this, but I think that Kanye has been the most successful at merging the two.

His work on "Graduation" was absolutely incredible.

Peace.

-Dekk-
Old 18th June 2009
  #3
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voicegenius's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dekk View Post
I will probably get hated on for this, but I think that Kanye has been the most successful at merging the two.

His work on "Graduation" was absolutely incredible.

Peace.

-Dekk-
No hate, I think you are correct...
Old 18th June 2009
  #4
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to me what matters is the end product. i don't care if it's 100% sample/keyboard or somewhere in between as long as it captures the feeling you're trying to express. i also feel the same way between live/programmed drums. many people have had success with playing over samples because in the mid 90's the keyboard workstations were starting to get good enough to do so. they did this until the sudden influx of keyboard players came onto the seen (storch, jr rotem, denaun porter, 1500 or nothin etc etc) and changed the game. many people that have success at this:

kanye
just blaze
the runners
cool and dre
david banner
etc etc

for me i'm not often inspired by sampling because i feel that i'm disrespecting the original song
because who am i to change/modify it. if i ever sample it will be of an artist/song i don't really like. it's personally more fun and challenging to create my own compositions but if i hear a crazzzyyyy sample i may use it, but i rarely push those on demos. it's also not really a part of my workflow i don't like to take the time to go through/look for a sample to use. lastly, i don't want to give up that bread for a sample haha.
Old 18th June 2009
  #5
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viewing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by cynic View Post
Discuss, or talk ****...do whatcha do.
been wanting to show off the onyx remix i did yesterday(first track on myspace)

i like synths too!
Old 18th June 2009
  #6
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illacov's Avatar
 

what about people who use keyboards, guitars, sampled drums, real drummers, real bass and sample themselves, in order to make hip hop music??

What category do they fall in??

Peace
Illumination
Old 18th June 2009
  #7
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Exactly. Just because a sound doesn't sound "sampled" doesn't mean it's not. The majority of "great producers" sample sounds all the time and use keyboards to thicken out or finish off the track. You don't have to sample a motown record to be sampling.
Old 18th June 2009
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyMike View Post
Exactly. Just because a sound doesn't sound "sampled" doesn't mean it's not. The majority of "great producers" sample sounds all the time and use keyboards to thicken out or finish off the track. You don't have to sample a motown record to be sampling.
That's not really what OP is talking about though. I mean, we all use sampling, use romplers that contains samples, sample ourselves etc. but I think he's talking more in stereotypes.
Old 18th June 2009
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T. Gundersen View Post
That's not really what OP is talking about though. I mean, we all use sampling, use romplers that contains samples, sample ourselves etc. but I think he's talking more in stereotypes.
Sampling is sampling is sampling. Timbaland and Kayne West uses it religously but it different ways. There is no difference. They both sample records just different genres
Old 18th June 2009
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyMike View Post
Sampling is sampling is sampling. Timbaland and Kayne West uses it religously but it different ways. There is no difference.
In order to make this thread interesting, you have to acknowledge the language/intention of the OP. Cleverly pointing out that sampling is sampling isn't saying a lot.
Old 18th June 2009
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T. Gundersen View Post
In order to make this thread interesting, you have to acknowledge the language/intention of the OP. Cleverly pointing out that sampling is sampling isn't saying a lot.
Not here to argue T.G just stating the facts.
Old 18th June 2009
  #12
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cynic one's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by T. Gundersen View Post
In order to make this thread interesting, you have to acknowledge the language/intention of the OP. Cleverly pointing out that sampling is sampling isn't saying a lot.
Exactly! ****, I sample myself playing a synth, then chop that up and mangle it. But you all know that's not what I'm talking about.

I _love_ sampling musicians who play guitar, horn, etc - but I'm specifically talking about sampling records and blending with synths.

Cool if you want to bring that into the mix, but let's not get into a discussion of "what is sampling".
Old 18th June 2009
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cynic View Post
Exactly! ****, I sample myself playing a synth, then chop that up and mangle it. But you all know that's not what I'm talking about.

I _love_ sampling musicians who play guitar, horn, etc - but I'm specifically talking about sampling records and blending with synths.

Cool if you want to bring that into the mix, but let's not get into a discussion of "what is sampling".
No no, Cynic, just stating that producers sample different genres of music but if you don't have trained ears, you'd never know.
Old 18th June 2009
  #14
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyMike View Post
No no, Cynic, just stating that producers sample different genres of music but if you don't have trained ears, you'd never know.
We know what you're saying, but that's not the point here!
Old 18th June 2009
  #15
Gear Maniac
 

I think mixing sampled records with keyboard sounds has been done and is being done today, somewhat effectively as well i might add.
Kanyes great at this.
A lot of producers are also working with their keyboard sounds to make beats that sound more like sampled records.
Personally its something i have attempted with varying degrees of success (i think occasionaly its something that comes down to the quality of your engineers skills just as much as your producing ability, but then again as a producer you have to know your engineering at least to an extent!).

One thing im proud of (and all of us in the "hip hop" community should be proud of) is the fact that hip hop is one of the few genres that attempts to transcend the so called "rules" and search for something new and unusual. Although im not a personal fan of some of the more dance based music (yes im guilty of making this stuff just as much as the next man), it is still progressive and just another stage of growth that hip hop music is going through.

I mean theres so many different styles and schools of production it just enriches the hip hop sound as a whole, we are at a stage where an artists album can include forging sampled records with live instrumentation and synth sounds and still come off sounding complete.

I think the key to it all is

EXPERIMENTATION...
Old 18th June 2009
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ISayItLikeItIs View Post
We know what you're saying, but that's not the point here!
Then the point is that there is no point.
Old 19th June 2009
  #17
Gear Head
 

Hmmmm....

Some good points made thus far..

In any case, I don't think that the blending of the 2 styles successfully is that rare. I'm of the opinion that many of the outlets have been pimped..so..people base what they do on where they feel they may be accepted and thus beyond that successful.

For example, if underground hip-hop is truly underground...why should I have to copy DJ Premier, J. Dilla, or anybody else's body of work to be considered core real deal underground hip-hop?? But...many of the so called 'underground hip-hop' outlets pre-filter on that criteria exclusively. No other genre attempts to regulate 'what is' and 'what isn't' 'real' more than hip-hop. Rock comes close and still has its divisions, but..it's not as extreme.

I personally could care less how anybody perceives the music I create beyond it simply just being what it is..my individual creativity. I myself, or anybody else should not have to make music based on a preconceived notion of 'acceptance'.

The pigeonholing comes from the outlets, the people that benefit from things staying cliche. If you base a business on selling a catalog of music that stays in a certain 'box'...you will be out of business if true creativity is embraced and somebody else capitalizes on that expansion. I think underground hip-hop should definitely expand and its long over due. But who will stand up and buck the trends instead of basing what's real, etc. on a prefabricated criteria??

It's all out there from my point of view..cats just gotta seize the moment and create their own lane despite any potential rejection from any self-interested outlet or 'scene'.

Not off-topic..just an alternate viewpoint on the subject..
Old 19th June 2009
  #18
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cynic one's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon Freeze View Post
The pigeonholing comes from the outlets, the people that benefit from things staying cliche. If you base a business on selling a catalog of music that stays in a certain 'box'...you will be out of business if true creativity is embraced and somebody else capitalizes on that expansion. I think underground hip-hop should definitely expand and its long over due. But who will stand up and buck the trends instead of basing what's real, etc. on a prefabricated criteria??

It's all out there from my point of view..cats just gotta seize the moment and create their own lane despite any potential rejection from any self-interested outlet or 'scene'.
I definitely feel that... thumbsup
Old 19th June 2009
  #19
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illacov's Avatar
 

So I guess just using live instruments etc kind of excludes me from this conversation??


Sucks to be me this week.
(Cues back in the days music, scene blurs to a different time and place)

(SCENE: Young Illumination looking up at his apartment window from the street)

Illumination:

MOM!!! I can't talk with my peers about makin beatz!! I wanna share my opinyun WAAAAAH!!

Illumination's Mother:
Illa Min Nation!

Illumination:
Yes momma?? (Illumination goes upstairs to the door to his apartment)

Illuminations Mom:
Boy bring your narrow ass in here! And didn't - I - tell - you (hits Illumination with a switch) to stay your ass offa Gearslutz! I told you bout what happen to the last little boy that was hangin round with folk! GITCHOAZZINDAHOWS!!

Illumination:
WAAAHH!!

Peace
Illumination
Old 19th June 2009
  #20
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KevWest's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhodesp04 View Post
for me i'm not often inspired by sampling because i feel that i'm disrespecting the original song
because who am i to change/modify it. if i ever sample it will be of an artist/song i don't really like. it's personally more fun and challenging to create my own compositions but if i hear a crazzzyyyy sample i may use it, but i rarely push those on demos. it's also not really a part of my workflow i don't like to take the time to go through/look for a sample to use. lastly, i don't want to give up that bread for a sample haha.
Im the total opposite. I love samples and I am inspired by great music. I like to bring great music out for the world to hear and if nothing else make it seem like an updated song. I am not saying it makes me a great musician but I am trying to put together great music even if I don't make it.
Old 19th June 2009
  #21
SCR
Gear Head
 

Both - Samples+Vsts FTW!
Old 19th June 2009
  #22
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KevWest's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by illacov View Post
So I guess just using live instruments etc kind of excludes me from this conversation??


Sucks to be me this week.
(Cues back in the days music, scene blurs to a different time and place)

(SCENE: Young Illumination looking up at his apartment window from the street)

Illumination:

MOM!!! I can't talk with my peers about makin beatz!! I wanna share my opinyun WAAAAAH!!

Illumination's Mother:
Illa Min Nation!

Illumination:
Yes momma?? (Illumination goes upstairs to the door to his apartment)

Illuminations Mom:
Boy bring your narrow ass in here! And didn't - I - tell - you (hits Illumination with a switch) to stay your ass offa Gearslutz! I told you bout what happen to the last little boy that was hangin round with folk! GITCHOAZZINDAHOWS!!

Illumination:
WAAAHH!!

Peace
Illumination
roflmao sounds like my mother
Old 19th June 2009
  #23
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deuc647's Avatar
I think just blaze pulls it off the best. Im not a fan of kayne simply because he thinks he is the greatest, he is the kobe of hip hop. Me personally, I love nothing more than to buy records at the thrift store and just sit back and listen to the all the way through, hear something I like and try to recreate it on keys with my style. Then I build on it from there. Its not exactly sampling since im the one playin it, but its inspired by it. Lol, sort of sampling without sampling!
Old 19th June 2009
  #24
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47radAR's Avatar
 

I can only remember using sample + keyboard succesfully once (only tried 2wice). I also 2wice sampled my own singing and pitched it up "Kanye" style and sliced it into a song.

Other than that, I have no real interest in sampling. There's no real reason for it other than I just don't feel like it...lol.

Maybe subconciously my ego plays a part in it somewhere.
Old 19th June 2009
  #25
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voicegenius's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by deuc647 View Post
I think just blaze pulls it off the best. Im not a fan of kayne simply because he thinks he is the greatest, he is the kobe of hip hop. Me personally, I love nothing more than to buy records at the thrift store and just sit back and listen to the all the way through, hear something I like and try to recreate it on keys with my style. Then I build on it from there. Its not exactly sampling since im the one playin it, but its inspired by it. Lol, sort of sampling without sampling!
He can't be Kobe because at this point, Kobe IS the greatest right now... He's more like the Ron Artest of hip hop...
Old 19th June 2009
  #26
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beat pharmacy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trell Blaze View Post
I can only remember using sample + keyboard succesfully once (only tried 2wice). I also 2wice sampled my own singing and pitched it up "Kanye" style and sliced it into a song.

Other than that, I have no real interest in sampling. There's no real reason for it other than I just don't feel like it...lol.

Maybe subconciously my ego plays a part in it somewhere.
Pitched up samples are not Kanye style thats been around way before kanye did it.
Old 19th June 2009
  #27
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IM WHO YOU THINK's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by voicegenius View Post
He can't be Kobe because at this point, Kobe IS the greatest right now... He's more like the Ron Artest of hip hop...
Wasn't it you calling Kobe a nothing crybaby in the bball thread a few weeks ago? Glad to see you've come around.
Old 19th June 2009
  #28
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47radAR's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by beat pharmacy View Post
Pitched up samples are not Kanye style thats been around way before kanye did it.
Most people get what I'm talking about when I say "Kanye" style. It was for clarity purposes...
Old 19th June 2009
  #29
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voicegenius's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by IM WHO YOU THINK View Post
Wasn't it you calling Kobe a nothing crybaby in the bball thread a few weeks ago? Glad to see you've come around.
He is.. Doesn't mean he isn't great... Love hate thing with Kobe... heh

Sorry, back to the subject at hand...
Old 19th June 2009
  #30
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azwun25's Avatar
 

DJ Hi-Tek has always been a nice blend of samples and live keyboards. He doesn't get mentioned much here, thats a shame.
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