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Hip Hop will kill Studios and Hardware Manufacturers
Old 2nd February 2010
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Cheese View Post
I know right, country is like 100 times bigger than hip hop. It really kicked off the chewing tobacco industry.
heh Well you know, much like the rapper the genre has to be the shiZnet, the best, the dopest ever... THE biggest of all time.
Old 2nd February 2010
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duffster View Post
Hip-Hop is not the only music on the market using home studio equipment and DAW. To think that one type of music could crush the studio industry or the companies supplying the technology is.......... well, I think you think Hip-Hop is a lot bigger than it actually is.
The studio industry is not a trend whose success will fade with time... Hip0Hop on the other hand... notice glam rick isn't popular anymore.
Truth! Home Studios and DAW's/SoftSynths/etc. can be linked to Rock, Techno, Pop, etc.
Old 2nd February 2010
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CityDump Records View Post
I could fart in a can record it with a bunch of spoons hitting a window and rap overtop of it.
I think Flava Flav made that record already.
Old 2nd February 2010
  #34
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3rd Degree's Avatar
 

I actually find it very interesting that 4.5ish so years later, not much has changed. Sure, many studios that were struggling already were gone. It seems in my area, everything solid is still kicking. More professional gear ends up in someones bedroom than what I remember 5 years ago. The only real change is that more people invest too much in there own music and don't support others, limiting their own success. Ironic stuff.
Old 2nd February 2010
  #36
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parkay909's Avatar
I'm going to have to disagree. Out of all the genres that I have worked with the hip-hop crowd is probably the most respectful of engineers. They were also the first crowd to return to the big "mothership" studios after the DAW boom of the early 2000s. In fact all the guys I knew out west who did rock music were starving while we were killing it in Atlanta making hip-hop.
Old 2nd February 2010
  #37
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What about the whole 'music piracy' side of things.

would you say ITB mixing or downloaded music is hurting studios the most?
Old 3rd February 2010
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence View Post
I think Flava Flav made that record already.

Rock n Roll Hall of Fame Flava Flav? Public Enemy Flava Flav? 991 its a joke Flava Flav? yeah he's clown ah?
Old 3rd February 2010
  #39
The industry and economy are hurting big studios. All genres have a success story of a mistake or bad recording that went right.

Phil Collins: "Feel it in the Air" was based on a mistake. He liked it and kept it. It worked, sold well, and is now a classic. Read up on that very song.

The Roots: Give it Here/ Dont say Nothin (tipping point album). The hook was a mistake, they liked it, kept it, sold well.

So studio quality and format ect.... Can be deviated from and win. Just the same there are countless piles of BS done on Neve, SSL and expensive guitars and mic.

With profits being down on record sales artists NEED to save and shortcut things. No excuse for garbage, but if I can make a hit on an sm7 rather than a AKG 414 I will, and if it doesn't hit I'm not in the hole $2k with a great mic and bad song.

That said, when artist grows, and sells more, they spend more going to nicer studios.

Budget & Return on Investment are critical in risky professions like art/music. There's so many unheard masterpieces in all genres done on a million dollar budget and great gear that will never see daylight.

In my opinion a good song is a good song, quality can improve on a re-release or remix (in the technical sense) and in this economy, actual sound quality isn't the focus with mp3 & iPods running the show.

Instead the focus should be on great chords, chops, writing and imaging, presentation, and promotion of a good songs.

Bottom line a Neve and SSL can't make a hit, and if the artist, producer, label, can't create hits, then expensive studios fold regardless of
genre, downloading, and DIY>ITB
Old 4th February 2010
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toro View Post
Rock n Roll Hall of Fame Flava Flav? Public Enemy Flava Flav? 991 its a joke Flava Flav? yeah he's clown ah?
And of course you personally love the music of every single successful artist in every single genre? I do think he's a clown and kind of a modern day minstrel (the public act anyway) and I'm pretty sure he really doesn't care what I think and I wish him the best of everything. I don't automatically love and respect people just because they make way more money than me.

We form our own opinions... no? Is that allowed?

Case in point... even though he could sing relatively well ... I never liked Elvis or thought he was that great, I personally think he kinda sucked. Didn't stop him from making a billion dollars though. I'm sure I'm not the only person on the planet who feels that way about Elvis or Flav.

Anyway... the comment was meant as a joke.
Old 6th February 2010
  #41
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reinvention.of.man's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by carllock View Post
Lets be real for a minute...Hip Hop has lead the music world for the past 20 years and the most profound change it will make will be the slow killing of Studios and Hardware companies. The new generation of Hip Hop producers will do all production in DAWS, and the only analog gear will be speakers, headphones, and mics. Big studios will become places to smoke blunts and waste money! Now you may begin to flame me>>>>>>>>>>da thruth
I hate to say this bro. But it's not HIP HOP, it's the advancement of technology.
Old 6th February 2010
  #42
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CityDump Records View Post
So let me sum this up,

Hip/hop is the root of all evil

Your mad because ITB mixers make songs that sound better than yours

is that about right?

thats like jimi hendrix saying he is mad because some young guy with a cheap electric guitar is making more money than him and his expensive electric guitar so that means the young guy must be making bad music and any achievements he makes must not be deserved.

Last i checked music was a bunch of sounds put together to make something enjoyable.

I could fart in a can record it with a bunch of spoons hitting a window and rap overtop of it. Guess what thats music.

So to all the young ITB mixers and horrible hip/hop heads please keep up the good work.

As a great man once said "haters fuel my fire"


Some people on this board delegitimize hip-hop to the point that I sometimes think it borders on racist because every once and a while a comment will arise that borders on "I don't understand why this youthful black music makes money because it's different than the way I do things and costs less money to make.

There's a lot of dinosaurs on this site that need to just bite the bullet and get with the times. I saw a great example written by a musician about pirating but I think it also applies to the advent of music coming from cheap project studios... It was something to the affect of, before cars came along, building horseshoes was a huge industry because everyone needed them. The car came along and made it a lot easier and faster to get around, so way less people needed horseshoes... but some people still own horses and so the guys who really love to make horseshoes are going to keep right on doing it and eventually got over the fact that the market shrank.

His wording made more sense... but maybe you all still get the idea. Point is, don't hate, just keep your nose to the grindstone and if you love it keep doing it, if it's about the money and your ego then throw in the towel and do something else.

I dunno, this site just frustrates me sometimes.
Old 8th February 2010
  #43
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s.d.finley's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by carllock View Post
Lets be real for a minute...Hip Hop has lead the music world for the past 20 years and the most profound change it will make will be the slow killing of Studios and Hardware companies. The new generation of Hip Hop producers will do all production in DAWS, and the only analog gear will be speakers, headphones, and mics. Big studios will become places to smoke blunts and waste money! Now you may begin to flame me>>>>>>>>>>da thruth
Microphone!!!!!!!!



thats hardware.....
Old 8th February 2010
  #44
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Watty's Avatar
 

I'm a small time demo studio, I know that, but "hip hop artists" will no longer have a chance to kill my studio. Of all the clients from different genres I work with, rap/hip hop ones are the ones who constantly let me down. Whether it be last minute cancellations, booking sessions and not turning up or not having money when it comes to paying at the end of the session, 95% of the time there is a problem with these types.

Not any longer though, all enquiries of this nature are now politely declined.

Someone else on this thread predictably waved the race card about - about 50% of Hip hoppers/rappers who are no longer welcome at my studio are white. It's not a race thing, I believe the reason for their apparent lack of respect is that they aren't actually musicians who buy gear, spend time practicing and actually obsessively try to understand music, but are merely chancers with no sense of obligation, professionalism or ability.
Old 8th February 2010
  #45
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Hey... if you don't mind me asking how much ballpark for the Smart Console and how sweet is that thing in practice?
Old 8th February 2010
  #46
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Igotsoul4u's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by carllock View Post
Lets be real for a minute...Hip Hop has lead the music world for the past 20 years and the most profound change it will make will be the slow killing of Studios and Hardware companies. The new generation of Hip Hop producers will do all production in DAWS, and the only analog gear will be speakers, headphones, and mics. Big studios will become places to smoke blunts and waste money! Now you may begin to flame me>>>>>>>>>>da thruth
First off, its not that hard to point out technological trends that started 5 years ago. Are you trying to say hiphop supported the studio business or makes up some majority of record sales?? Are you kidding me?? You make it sound like hip hop won some sort of battle when they lost. Hip hop was demoted to a home recording environment because it wasn't valuable enough to waste studio time on. So has most other genres of music. Hip hop is pretty dead in terms of market value and it never represented the backbone of the studio industry. Majors studios shut down because everyone, including hip hop artists, began recording at home because album sales are down over 50% due to piracy and singles sales. People started recording at home because they couldn't afford to record in studios anymore due to shrinking budgets and album sales. Its not like its a good thing to record at home. Its an awful compromise that produces a crappier product despite its cost effectiveness. Most artists prefer studios over basements and spare rooms. I also think people don't work as well when the meter isn't running. When you are getting billed you need to have a work ethic and home recording can be a detriment to that.
Old 8th February 2010
  #47
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Kayo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by XHipHop View Post
aren't hiphop producers the major buyers of that SSL aws900 or whatever it's called?
Exactly!
Most things go through technological changes, and thus old gear or attributes surrounding the old ways is redundant eventually..

For example: TV's ... look what’s happening to that technology, or computers..

It’s the way of the world.

KAyo
Old 9th February 2010
  #48
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Watty View Post
Someone else on this thread predictably waved the race card about - about 50% of Hip hoppers/rappers who are no longer welcome at my studio are white. It's not a race thing, I believe the reason for their apparent lack of respect is that they aren't actually musicians who buy gear, spend time practicing and actually obsessively try to understand music, but are merely chancers with no sense of obligation, professionalism or ability.
I was the one who mentioned race. I'm not saying this board is racist to the point that they don't like hip-hop BECAUSE it's a predominantly black culture... just some of the jokes that are made on this board to delegitimize hip-hop and home recording kind of offend me...

But you're absolutely right that it has a lot to do with the creation of a product becoming so easy that many people have given up on the investment of time, care, money, and energy that it requires to truly be great. I actually have a guy I play in a band with who borrows my gear, which is very nice and expensive. He doesn't pay attention to me when I tell him how to care for my gear and then acted confused and was in denial after I pointed out that he'd chipped the finish on one of my guitars. Reason being... he doesn't play music that seriously, it's a light hobby for him and his gear is cheap, so he doesn't care much about how others' gear is treated.

Same seems to go for the types of clients you're dealing with, and that is a fair reason to shut your door to someone.
Old 9th February 2010
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watty View Post
rap/hip hop ones are the ones who constantly let me down. I believe the reason for their apparent lack of respect is that they aren't actually musicians who buy gear, spend time practicing and actually obsessively try to understand music, but are merely chancers with no sense of obligation, professionalism or ability.
Hip Hop is a great sub culture sir ; in my town Hip Hoppers are helping kids do things like build a boat (Bronx NY) or how apply to Harvard, Brown or Columbia U (Harlem)
So you think they are not musicians ah? how old of a man are you? are you seventy years old? cause if you are, than you are absolutely right grandpa
Old 9th February 2010
  #50
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toro View Post
Hip Hop is a great sub culture sir ; in my town Hip Hoppers are helping kids do things like build a boat (Bronx NY) or how apply to Harvard, Brown or Columbia U (Harlem)
So you think they are not musicians ah? how old of a man are you? are you seventy years old? cause if you are, than you are absolutely right grandpa


You are also very correct! There's a lot of good going on in hip-hop that gets ignored in communities like this one.

This is the main reason I get so down on this board. I feel that most people who bash hip-hop on here don't seem to know anything about it beyond the kids who come on here or into their studio saying "I've got $500. How do I make platinum records?"

Is hip-hop culture littered with lazy kids like that? Yes.

Is this entire generation, be it white, black, hip-hop, or rock littered with kids who all have that same attitude? That greatness is easy because they grew up with the internet and technology that makes it seem easy? Yes.

Should some of the "grandpas" on this site grow up and get over those facts and just keep working while the rest of us continue to learn and catch up? YES!!!
Old 11th February 2010
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s.d.finley View Post
Microphone!!!!!!!!



thats hardware.....
That's what I said "only hardware will be speakers, mics, and headphones"
Old 11th February 2010
  #52
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When I posted original thread almost five years ago I was on kind of a rant, but one based on what I saw the world of audio was going towards and knowing how Hip Hop played a major (yet many times uncredited) role in those trends...

Now I see that we are more on a hybrid path...Analog, even if it is with the summing trend will still be a part of our lives for a while.

And to the people who said I was sounding like one of the youngin's, wish I was...I am one of the old "grandpa's" so to speak.

I was literally there when hip hop started in NYC;

I was in the Fever Nightclub when it was put down, I was in the parks in Brooklyn and Bronx when the the electricity came off the light post and some of the Jamaican decent DJ's started early Hip Hop sets . Had my on my Pro-Keds sneakers and "Rip Rip" black shoes (the ones with those big black zig zag treads!) I was there watching Kung Fu theater and Creature Feature on Channel 9 in NYC. Playing the Skully Game with bottle caps on the sidewalks. Listening to Frankie Crocker/ Mr Magic play some of the first rap sounds on WBLS-FM...later on a young dude named Cool DJ Red Alert. I was there when your alliance to Hip Hop culture was whether you had one of your pant legs rolled up and you walked with a "Hip Hop". Later I was even there when Puffy got kicked out of his crib when he got fired from Uptown records and had to move in with Eddie F (from Heavy D and the Boys) in Jersey.

My history with Hip Hop is long and far from just yesterday.

I am vintage enough to remember when big studios use to laugh when we brought in drum machines instead of drummers, now look...Most drum parts are programmed on the top 100, most folks don't even realize they're listening to programmed drums now it sounds so real.

Like some posters accurately pointed out, Hip Hop kept some of the big studios alive when the ADATS and Mackie really started the mad rush into home studios, real talk.

Country music is the biggest seller in the USA, but world-wide Hip Hop is HUGE, especially with the computer/myspace generation.

I'm not all happy on Hip Hops role (on topic) in turning up the heat on Big studios (or hardware companies) but it's reality. Like I am sure there is an old TV repair guy pissed at the Chinese for producing disposable consumer electronics but it's reality.

The truth in this thread can't be known at the point it's at now (5 years later) the real deal will probably be revealed at the 10 year mark....I'll bump it up then on my internet Wrist Watch WIFI/DAW/HDTV/GPS device.

p.s.
One thing I truly wish like some posters' said is for Hip Hop to get its respect in the evolution of music production and technology.
Old 12th February 2010
  #53
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One thing I truly wish like some posters' said is for Hip Hop to get its respect in the evolution of music production and technology.

I'm from the L.E.S. I was 5 years old when I heard Rappers Delight. I was like what the f%$k! is this. I had never heard anything like it. Hip Hop was considered to be a fad by the major record labels. Yet if it wasn't for Hip Hop the Major labels,studios, and other companies today would not be generating half of the income they do. You don't believe it. Turn on the TV, Radio and listen to how Hip Hop culture has blended in to society. Hell, There's even a movie called My Baby Mama!
Hip Hop is suffering the same fate Jazz did when it was in it's young years. Hip Hop is world wide! Places where people have not herd of Dolly Parton know who Jay Z is. We can thank technology for that and this convo now. And that my friends is what Hip Hop is built upon. Ingenuity and the constant creation of something new.
With the combination of Hardware and software engineers are able to achieve amazing mixes never thought possible. And that's on the Big studio level and home studio level. And I think it's absurd to bash anyone for making good music at a home studio level. If it's hot. It's hot! Erika Badu recorded most of her vocals for the Amerykah album on her laptop(Software)!! But it was mixed at Electric Lady(Hardware). That album sounds bangin!
Old 12th February 2010
  #54
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Interesting discussion. I think there is merit to many of the points made here. In my opinion, I don't think Hip Hop is the studio killer though; I think the killer is technology advancements in general.

Someone said if a musician mentions SSL they must be working in a big studio... nah... you can get Waves plugins fully endorsed by Solid State Logic for about a grand. I have seen and heard the results first hand and the algorithm is spot on. Duende is another viable option. Sonnox another Urs another. Now Pheads Record has some pretty convincing channel strip SSL. I think a capable engineer can now produce a song in the bedroom that sounds as good as one produced on a big console... with the right software and experience.

I think it's a good thing. I say power to the indies. Corporate America has dominated music long enough.

PS: Watty are you the same Watty of Cubase.net fame? thumbsup

dailymixdown.com» The Daily Mixdown – A blog with tips, tricks, articles, videos, and reviews for electronic and acoustic musicians and producers
Enter to win a FREE Arturia Prophet 2.0 soft synth in our latest giveaway!
Old 12th February 2010
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dailymixdown.com View Post
Interesting discussion. I think there is merit to many of the points made here. In my opinion, I don't think Hip Hop is the studio killer though; I think the killer is technology advancements in general.

Someone said if a musician mentions SSL they must be working in a big studio... nah... you can get Waves plugins fully endorsed by Solid State Logic for about a grand. I have seen and heard the results first hand and the algorithm is spot on. Duende is another viable option. Sonnox another Urs another. Now Pheads Record has some pretty convincing channel strip SSL. I think a capable engineer can now produce a song in the bedroom that sounds as good as one produced on a big console... with the right software and experience.

I think it's a good thing. I say power to the indies. Corporate America has dominated music long enough.

PS: Watty are you the same Watty of Cubase.net fame? thumbsup

dailymixdown.com» The Daily Mixdown – A blog with tips, tricks, articles, videos, and reviews for electronic and acoustic musicians and producers
Enter to win a FREE Arturia Prophet 2.0 soft synth in our latest giveaway!
Look at my production set up now (and I was a HUGE supporter of "Big Studios" for eons)

In my travel Open Labs Miko (I now have several OL products) I have all the Waves SSL's and API's, I have a SSL Duende PCIe card, a UAD PCIe Neve Nevana card, an attached Focusrite Liquidmix 32...Let me find a USB powered coffee maker and its a wrap!

I would be a fool to step foot in a studio....the studio is right in my travel case...you don't even need OL products to be at that state, a crazy laptop and an attached UAD expresscard comes close to that. I've taken my Miko to 5 Continents and who knows how many countries this past year alone...never step foot once in a studio (in which I was the one paying the bill)....and back on topic; Hip Hop is the main inspiration and income for them Open Labs folks, they are honest enough to say that.

Full Disclosure footnote:
I am not paid or compensated in any way to endorse any of the manufacturers I just mentioned
Old 12th February 2010
  #56
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"In my travel Open Labs Miko (I now have several OL products) I have all the Waves SSL's and API's, I have a SSL Duende PCIe card, a UAD PCIe Neve Nevana card, an attached Focusrite Liquidmix 32...Let me find a USB powered coffee maker and its a wrap!"

It's a wrap then... What Can Your Computer Do For You? : College Candy
Old 13th February 2010
  #57
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Storyville's Avatar
Hip Hop WILL NOT kill hardware manufacturers.

Jim from JJ Audio was in Studio E with me for three days doing Hip Hop, and he survived.
Old 13th February 2010
  #58
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oceantracks's Avatar
 

Much as I dislike hip hop "music," it isn't about hip hop.

When the first music sequencers came out for PC and Mac in the 80s, the writing was on the wall.

I used to book tons of time in Miami doing jingles. We'd get a 5000 budget and I'd spend 3000 on studio. I made the jingles like little records. Finally, Joe Galdo of Miami Sound Machine came in one day and said "Man, you are never going to make any money programming parts and stuff in the studio. Get a PC or Mac and sequence this stuff at home. So from the on I met with Joe before sessions to program drum parts (EMU and Linn 9000 at the time) and the studio started getting less of my dollars. All the keyboard parts were done as well.

Not long after that, the writing was not only on the wall, it was starting to become carved in the wall.....with the release of the ADAT. Now it wasn't just sequences being done at home, it was AUDIO. It was brought to the studio and transferred to Studer 24, we sang, and we mixed. More studio hours lost.

Finally the DAW started to happen, and the studios started closing. At least locally, they depended on their demo business with local groups to stay alive between the big "A" list bookings. That business started to disappear.

The next hope is that everyone would at least bring their stuff in to mix. Then everyone started mixing at home. Maybe not the big record guys, but all the business that, through a given year, kept a local studio going...just wasn't there...

It has just progressed through the years. It has nothing to do with Hip Hop.

TH
Old 13th February 2010
  #59
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Keyflo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Cheese View Post
I know right, country is like 100 times bigger than hip hop. It really kicked off the chewing tobacco industry.
Yeah country out sells hiphop by far, or they have more supporters, but yeah man studios are still open
Old 13th February 2010
  #60
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jelstro View Post
There's a lot of dinosaurs on this site that need to just bite the bullet and get with the times.

Indeed, and they are greatly outnumbered by younger wiseguys with no sense of history or place, and even less experience to back up their cartoonish virtual bravado and posturing. It can be tedious when those worlds collide; judicious use of your ignore list will make your experience of this place a far smoother one.

Because mostly, in my experience, this forum is populated with good people doin' their best to make sense of the chaos and help each other out.


Gregory Scott - ubk
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