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Old 11th August 2005
  #31
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scruffydog's Avatar
Chill..smoke some of this..everything is gonna be alright..
Old 11th August 2005
  #32
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Stoneface's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by scruffydog
Chill..smoke some of this..everything is gonna be alright..
Yeaaahhhh.....that's the good stuff. Much better now.
Old 11th August 2005
  #33
Gear Addict
 
s00p3rm4n's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucey
Easy now, no need to insult ... DEA is a silly war of politics, Scientology is a lark. I'm not anti-drugs, I'm pro freedom and personal responsibility. And according to the Def, so is an existentialist:

"a philosopher who emphasizes freedom of choice and personal responsibility but who regards human existence in a hostile universe as unexplainable"

the first part seems like a good idea (a philosopher who emphasizes freedom of choice and personal responsibility )

but the second part is a lack of intelligence or just lazyness(but who regards human existence in a hostile universe as unexplainable)

Hostile universe? Hardly.

Unexplainable? Hard to explain, but not impossible to sense.

The cosmic patterns of intelligence and direction are everywhere. Love vs. Fear. Courage vs. Convenience. etc...

And not to pick on you but "I've read enough Sartre" to be an Existentialist is an insult to Sartre. America and existentialism are mutually exclusive. Further, we cant be a Gearslut and be an existentialist ... recording? why bother? Music? why bother?

Both are WAY to social and temporal for existentialists to care. Care? why bother? Love? why bother?

it's all unexplainable and random! Ha!
You're essentializing existentialism based on a one-line definition - it's not that easy. We indulge the follies of existence because we choose to... we want to. We are all essentially alone (because each individual is trapped within a mind and body he/she can never escape until death, and no one else can fit within your mind and body), and that is the only thing anyone has in common - thus, we're not alone. It's this paradox that drives existentialism. The nature of existence may be undefined, but that doesn't mean we still don't exist.

I'm not sure you understand existentialism... your "why do anything? Nothing's worth the effort." characterization is much more nihilistic than it is existentialist, and it's much closer to Camus' philosophy than Jean-Paul Sartre or Michel Foucault. Nihilists avoid choice, and destroy concepts of thought and order and necessity for the sake of the id - "We believe in nutzing, Lebowski!" Existentialism is all about keeping the id in check, and examining its usefulness among the complex backdrop of every choice we make consciously or subconsciously. For example, I have a code of ethics for myself that I don't impose on others. Now, obviously, I judge other people, but at least I examine the fact that that judgment involves a choice and I cannot choose for other people. And existentialism isn't an anti-social philosophy. Perhaps we just see it differently - if the ultimate goal of life is itself - existence - then I'll be a bored corpse if I don't at least engage the concept of these imaginary people and places (if they're indeed imaginary, which I can never know).

Existence precedes essence - existence is the fact of being, and essence is what the "thing" is. We're condemned by existence to determine what we are and will be simply because we are born blank slates with no inherent nature or "essence." This is of course in opposition to Christianity - that we are inherently "sinners" and have to overcome some invisible, unchosen stigma planned by God - and that therefore essence precedes existence.

If you haven't seen it, watch I <3 Huckabees. That's pretty much the two warring schools of existential thought. There's no one answer or one question - there are infinite questions and infinite answers. But that's the fun of it!!! And you can very much be an American and question the value of your existence and the choices that define your essence.

To quote Sartre himself: "Man is nothing else than his plan: he exists only to the extent that he fulfills himself; he is therefore nothing else than the ensemble of his acts, nothing else than his life."

I encourage you to read Essays in Existentialism, or any Sartre book for that matter. They're usually relatively readable if you've had any primers in philosophy reading and can handle the vocabulary. Enjoy only at the risk of your peace of mind!

And after that diversion, I now wish I had pot.
Old 11th August 2005
  #34
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucey
Belief? No I'm talking science.
.........

At higher levels, intuition is what we call psychic, and for a very few, clairvoyance. Psychoactive drugs ruin the very subtle path that leads to all of that.

Ummm... ok.

You're talking about science and psychic abilities in the same context, as if it were fact? Totally taking for granted that ACTUAL FACT that all real, valid scientific tests ever done in the history of mankind of either been unable to prove, or utterly disproved such ways of thinking.
This is why intuition is not only a useful tool... it can also be a very misleading tool. Drugs tend to increase personal beliefs in sudden intuitions like this, but just because you absolutely believe something and feel it down to your 'core' doesn't mean it's true. It means you believe it. And if it has to do with clairvoyance, it means that you are wrong and the drugs have taken you on quite a trip to feelings created from things that aren't there.
Old 11th August 2005
  #35
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scruffydog's Avatar
philosophy meets psychology.....now I really got a head ache!!
Old 11th August 2005
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scruffydog
philosophy meets psychology.....now I really got a head ache!!
Actually, IIRC, psychology originated from philosophy.
Old 11th August 2005
  #37
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DaveC's Avatar
 

I tried to mix a song once when I was totally outthere.....
.............what happened was..........................................ehm.................
....................................................#............#[email protected]
so I mixed.....................a..........soooong.....................when....ehhhrm...
................................ ... . * .. %............... ..........,

anyway, just read the above and that's what happened; absolutely nothing!
Just gazing at the screen like:"Hey those green things on the Pro Tools screen bouncing up and down are funny!! HAHAHAHAHAAAAARRGH!!"
So I almost choked laughing at the screen because all of the funny movements
I saw.
Imagine being stoned as hell (what you can get really easy here in Holland heh )
and watch the 'mix'-screen in a PT-session with lots of automixing going on..now that's funny!
But I can imagine that vocal-performance increases for some people when their intoxicated; you lose your inhibitions...but when mixing....better eat 12 bags of chips...
Old 11th August 2005
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucey
to borrow a borrowed phrase, whatever works !
*snip for brevity*
Well agreed.
Old 12th August 2005
  #39
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Sobe's Avatar
 

It is funny to work with people in the studio that are getting high ... they think what they are doing is the **** and everybody is high fivin everyone .... then when they come in the next morning sober most of the time they listen back to what they did the night before and cringe .... and are like ... aaaaa ... lets try that again ...
Old 12th August 2005
  #40
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paultools's Avatar
 

Why hasn't this thread been moved to a more appropriate forum?
Surely there is no implication that smoking is exclusive to rappers and hip-hop heads.
Maybe there is a preferred method of delivery (blunts as opposed to bongs, pipes or Zags), but artists of all genres were getting high in the studio long before the first "hot-butterty-pop de pop" was uttered.
Old 12th August 2005
  #41
I've mixed and preformed on Acid , dope , coke and speed. .( not necessarily all at once ).Each one has different results.
The Acid yeilded the best results.By far the most creative.

What's really important is to have all your equipment well set up before hand so you don't have to patch in a single cable. Power everything up and put up signs where the toilets are. Keep a bucket handy . A glass of icy water .
I have to stress that.
Old 12th August 2005
  #42
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nukmusic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by paultools
Why hasn't this thread been moved to a more appropriate forum?
Surely there is no implication that smoking is exclusive to rappers and hip-hop heads.
Maybe there is a preferred method of delivery (blunts as opposed to bongs, pipes or Zags), but artists of all genres were getting high in the studio long before the first "hot-butterty-pop de pop" was uttered.

heh heh Is that Pop Secret?

anyway, herb is in more neighborhoods than most folks think. And I mean all income levels. Rappers just like to talk about it in the open, while others just hide the fact that they smoke. Common performed at the HBO here on Wed. night, sponsered by Kool, and his last words before leaving the stage was, "and I don't smoke cigarettes". had the crowd laughing there butts off.

No smoking in my setup too. They can smoke outside in the backyard if my G-Shepherd lets them..... Smoke damages electronic equipment.
Old 12th August 2005
  #43
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TheReal7's Avatar
 

Write, record and mix straight for me.... until its sounds great to me... then toke up to enjoy the tunes heh
Old 12th August 2005
  #44
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cdog's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucey
No offense to those who do it but once you've been stoned 10 to 20 times the positive effects are worn off.....
After 10-20 hits the positive effects just start to kick in....

Seriously, I'd MUCH rather work with musicians who are stoned than drunk.

Pot doesn't make you all sloppy.... it can slow you down, or give you tunnel vision, but thats not necessarily a bad thing. Stoners don't puke Henessey all over on your rack - I consider that a bonus

Also - its an herbal supplement, its not a drug at all.

Its all about responsible use.... respect the power of the plant, it will respect you.

Old 12th August 2005
  #45
Gear Guru
 
lucey's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdog
Also - its an herbal supplement, its not a drug at all.
not to nitpick you here but in fact, it is a drug ... psychoactives in mushrooms, mj and lsd are not ginko biloba or rasperry root ...

just like there are poisins that grow in the natural world, there are drugs there too.
Old 12th August 2005
  #46
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cdog's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucey


And not to pick on you but "I've read enough Sartre" to be an Existentialist is an insult to Sartre. America and existentialism are mutually exclusive. Further, we cant be a Gearslut and be an existentialist ... recording? why bother? Music? why bother?

Both are WAY to social and temporal for existentialists to care. Care? why bother? Love? why bother?

it's all unexplainable and random! Ha!
Lucey, you've confused existentialism with nihilism....

To Sartre, life is very meaningful, but it is not a meaning prescribed by God, rather, it is a meaning that the individual must search out and define in the absence of a God. It is a philosophy of individualism - the essence of a man is not predefined, it is defined through the series of choices he makes throughout his life. Meaning can still be derived from life in the absence of complete understanding or a higher power.

Far from mutual exclusion, America embraces existentialism.

Nihilism is a type of extreme scepticism where because nothing can be proven absolutely, nothing is of any value and nothing can be known - therefore ascribing meaning to one's life is pointless.

Try reading Friedrich Nietzsche's The Will to Power, it has some fantastic insights into these subjects.

Old 12th August 2005
  #47
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Ruphus's Avatar
 

One day somewhere in the very late seventies I think I came to the idea to try out how much dope would make stoned already. It showed that just the size of a pinhead would suffice for me actually.
Before that I used to smoke like I would characterize it today "completely thoughtless", much too much. Almost like wanting to knock myself out. However, in that mode we used to be all very unproductive. `Suiting´ in my case at that time, because I hadn´t found my passions yet.

Since then I prefer to be only slightly stoned so that I am still `useful´.
Different scientists so far have described THC effect in very different ways. From pathological results to mind expanding.
Besides of some aspects that seem proven like for instance THC being helpful for people with overly intra-ocular pressure I do believe the description I heard once out of all from the official drug observator in Germany. He said weed smokers could be less influenced by political propaganda and distortion. According to my own observations among people I can believe that. In a way THC supporting autonomous thinking, provided it´s not merely used for hanging on the sofa without further input, naturally.

What music is concerned however, I remember a statement somewhere that many of the great musicians of the seventies stopped excessive smoking, cause they used to find out to have produced rather crap next day.

I for my part must say that as a theoretical idiot am having problems in reproducing same musical portions ( always tending to improvise something new into it ) most of the time and that being stoned makes it almost impossible for the reduced short-time memory as I would estimate it.

For myself there exists no true reason to smoke in concern of productivity. Being stoned for me is rather a joy of consumption than production, as well as expanding patience. This means that I like to be slightly stoned at mixing or any other creative doings for just loving the action even more than sober ( altogether lots of enjoyment ). However, when it is about working as fast as possible I rather won´t smoke.

Finally, maybe worth mentioning that science devides between two differently THC perceiving types. One type, obviously the majority, tends to become rather introverted and mind surfing, the second type in the opposite becoming extroverted and hig-spirited.

So far I have met much fewer of the second type, but they exist. One of them was like a rocket. Used to smoke and be hyperactive at it, he alone grounded and managed three different clubs if I recall that correctly. THC seemed to function like amphetamine for him.

Like alway maybe not overdoing it is what might be relevant and not using it in the wrong place ( official doings for me being taboo, remotely similar with sex, because the partner usually don´t appreciate the "abscence" at it, start doubting on your bindingness [ correct term?] while you actually being fully with them diving through your senses. If they don´t cope well with me stoned in bed I don´t smoke.

Once in while I make longer smoking pauses, not in a militant attitude but rather easy going, just to airing my ol´brain.

Oh ... BTW, something else ...
Think to have mentioned it before one time:

The white coats also differenciate between three primare types of weed consumers. Group one being absolute abstinet, group two being occassional and group three being constant users.
They say group one to be mentally worst basically, people who´d have internalized traumatic experiences like for instance moralizing or dominant parents / vastly fathers and from there positioning radically, away from trial & error stand, not only with drugs, but generally.

Group two being healthiest and stable enough to not make it constant habit.

Group three being instable and escaping.

Ruphus
Old 12th August 2005
  #48
Gear Guru
 
lucey's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdog
Lucey, you've confused existentialism with nihilism....

To Sartre, life is very meaningful, but it is not a meaning prescribed by God, rather, it is a meaning that the individual must search out and define in the absence of a God. It is a philosophy of individualism - the essence of a man is not predefined, it is defined through the series of choices he makes throughout his life. Meaning can still be derived from life in the absence of complete understanding or a higher power.

Far from mutual exclusion, America embraces existentialism.

Nihilism is a type of extreme scepticism where because nothing can be proven absolutely, nothing is of any value and nothing can be known - therefore ascribing meaning to one's life is pointless.

Try reading Friedrich Nietzsche's The Will to Power, it has some fantastic insights into these subjects.


thanks for the clarification .. i'm too busy to read those again ... did it in college but obviously got them tangled up a bit. any one philospohy is too limited IMO. like religions, all are on to it, but not quite there.

i guess my point was unclear: there is meaning and there is truth ... and these are not dogma or subjectivity, but somewhere else.

drugs make this study impossible
Old 12th August 2005
  #49
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Switchcraft's Avatar
 

hey guys

guess what...
its different for everybody.
Old 12th August 2005
  #50
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LewisWu's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cdog
After 10-20 hits the positive effects just start to kick in....

Seriously, I'd MUCH rather work with musicians who are stoned than drunk.
Stoners don't puke Henessey all over on your rack - I consider that a bonus

Its all about responsible use.... respect the power of the plant, it will respect you.

10-20??? thats far to many, and would take too much time... maybe 10-20 minutes later the positive effects start to kick in...

perhaps the gentleman would prefer Jack herre, or some bumbleberry???

[snicker]

without a doubt, I prefer that a musician not puke on my rack, I have a porcelain goddess that they can puke into, if they absolutely have to...
Old 12th August 2005
  #51
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Sobe's Avatar
 




http://www.hightimes.com/ht/entertai...bid=551&aid=24


With a No. 1 solo debut under his belt, Matchbox Twenty lead singer Rob Thomas comes out of the cannabis closet.

The year is 2002, and the multi-platinum Matchbox Twenty are about to release their third album, More Than You Think You Are. As the record’s getting its final touches, I’m invited to listen to some of the tracks at New York’s Hit Factory studio. Coming in, I expect to hear hits—as in hit singles. The engineer blasts songs like “Disease” (co-written by Mick Jagger) and “Bright Lights,” both future radio smashes, through the monitors. What I don’t expect to hear is the sound of bong hit after bong hit of the kindest New York nugs packed into a little plastic red Graffix. Frontman Rob Thomas is in the studio lounge waiting for feedback.

“Want a hit?” the singer-songwriter asks with a courteous gesture of the bong.

The smoke clears, and what transpires next is two hours of the most insightful, witty and intelligent conversation that I’d had in a long time, not to mention an absurd amount of pot consumed throughout. Admittedly, I had come with a certain perception of Thomas as the author of countless lite-rock staples, which automatically deemed him uncool. The closest Thomas had come to being cool was the 1999 Grammy he received for collaborating with Carlos Santana on the ridiculously catchy “Smooth.” The general consensus was that Matchbox Twenty were for suburban secretaries, not stoners. After hanging out and getting high with Thomas, though, I was ready to change that tune about him.

The more I ran into Thomas over the next few years—sneaking a joint at a black-tie music-industry function, being followed by the camera of Gillian Grisman (Grateful Dawg, Press On), who’s documenting his maiden solo voyage, Something to Be...—the more I came to like him. And the more I learned about his past—which includes a long and sometimes dark history with recreational drugs—the more convinced I became that he might be one of the coolest rock-star potheads alive.

But the moment that clinched my eternal fondness for Rob Thomas came on the day of his HIGH TIMES photo shoot, when he received a goodie bag as a parting gift and ended up immediately misplacing it. Classic space-out move, right? But here’s the kicker: Five minutes later, in the midst of his interview-packed schedule, Thomas returned to the photo studio inquiring about the lost bag. Now that’s a true, dedicated stoner. “If it was a watch, I wouldn’t have come back. But for weed….” He was given a replacement goodie bag. (The lost bag ended up on the street near the studio and, luckily, was found by a HIGH TIMES employee.)

When I read the whole article he talks about how he is always smoking in the studio ... I you got this guy in your place and he is paying 2k a day do you tell him he has to go out to the car to smoke and possible loose the gig ...
Old 13th August 2005
  #52
this is a site of scientific research on the subject of Marijana, and other psychoactive subsances, also on addiction, also on cultural phenomena:

http://www.drugresearch.nl/
(there is an english version of the site)

very interesting opinions in this thread IMO.
Old 13th August 2005
  #53
Old 13th August 2005
  #54
most people i know through music like a bit of reefer. hard to say what it does for other people but i like it enough to smoke a bit of homegrown a few times a month.. sometimes less. makes me relaxed and super sensitive to detail..well you know the drill. the adverse effects ive had is that some **** weed can make you feel feel cold or worried. it is basically made by the plants to be an insect poison..

i think it could be decriminalized but manufacturing and sales should be illegal, otherwise marlboro would just take over and put a huge marketing push into it
Old 13th August 2005
  #55
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paultools's Avatar
 

An old saying goes something like this:

"no one is laughing but the drunks... and they laugh too much"

To correspond to this topic, maybe some people giggle too much.

I don't partake personally, and it can be frustrating to work around people who are high all the time. To each his own though...

I also feel that it should be further decriminalized. A buddy of mine... small timer, shot in the face and killed. It is a habit that is not always so harmless, whether Einstein was a stoner or not.
Old 13th August 2005
  #56
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entropy's Avatar
From a hip hop perspective, I usually find it's the rappers that do and the dj's that don't. Maybe it's just too hard to hold a spliff while you're trying to perfect your hampster scratch??

Personally, I do. I've cut down a lot since I was in the studio 24/7 but I'll stick pack a bowl when I'm getting an inital balance up (if I was tracking, I probably wouldn't) and then will have another 'round once I've got something close to the finished result.

Each to their own
Old 13th August 2005
  #57
agree on the decriminalisation. it is not the drug that is dangerous, it can be the misuse of it, and the living patterns that are associated with it.
Any psychoactive substance should not be patented, and sold exclusively by big companies. That would lead to EXTREMELY dangerous sitations of a different kind. (have some moloko) Substance taking has been with man since prehistoric times. I'm not saying that anybody should take it, or everybody can. Education (also adults) should clear things up. Alas the biassed opinions that come with "drugs" make it hard to take a fresh look at it. In a general sense.
In Holland we have/had (yes this is confusing) a system of legal use, and illegal manufacture. Sales are regulated, through rules. How the coffeeshops get their supply is up to them. this is still illegal. This situation sometimes creates problems as coffeeshops have to get some too...
The supreme court in Holland recently advised the government to legalise. (!) Not only do the drug-related criminal procecutions clog up the system, the judges have found NO reason to keep Marijuana illegal in a public health sense. And that was the basis for making it illegal in the first place.
The government now in office here, opted to keep the book closed on this subject. They benefit from the political support of big brother Bush, and his "War on Drugs".
Presciption drugs are issued for a lot of patients. Some way more powerful and dangerous than Marijuana. (when prescribed wrong) It is the trend to issue mood equalisers to a lot of "patients", for instance.

as for my own flawed analasys: I found out humans are chemical beings, take too much of something and you're toast. Psychoactive substances can be a nice thing for some, and stimulating, and big trouble for others. Psychoactive drugs are generally not addictive. Marijuana a possible exception IMHO. THC and other psychoactive drugs like for instance MDMA (XTC), have a big connection with the perception of music. Perceptions can also be misinterpretated. The differences between people and the situation when and reason for taking are IMO the biggest determining factor, not the substance itself. Very simply put, a person could die from drinking 6 litres of water. Some people (NOT many) can lead normal productive lives taking substances regurarly that would floor others in a matter of days. I do not consider coke a mind opening substance, in almost all people I've met. (to open a can of juicy worms) Also a crowded restaurant is not the best place to smoke a big spliff I guess. alcohol is considered a hard drug, (yej another can of worms..)

Bottom line IMHO is that dope will never go away, and can be even beneficial to some, so how to deal with it. I judge any person by his/her actions, and my own rules, therefore I assume resposibillity. Also in a studio/stage context.

hope this is of use to anyone

Old 13th August 2005
  #58
Gear Maniac
 
beatzz's Avatar
 

From personal experience as well as watching friends around me: I don't think that weed has any positive effects in the long run on one's creative, intellectual, or musical output. Period.

Sure some people might have made some wack beat or guitar line while they were high, but in the long-run i don't think it has done anyone any good

(excluding people with chronic illness, cancer, etc)


I stay away from that ****.
Old 14th August 2005
  #59
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5down1up's Avatar
 

nice theories ... now if it all would be just that easy

we are talking about PEOPLE ? right
Old 14th August 2005
  #60
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher
you slur your words HIGH??? that only happens when i'm super drunk....
humboldt county>new york
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