How does one study a passion? And what does one learn?

Also, did it instill in you your very own passion for the artform?

heh

http://www.apassion4jazz.net/keys.html

A Passion For Jazz.

Yeah, I was just goofin' around.

Here is a free resource to help those seeking self-education in Jazz theory:

The Jazz Handbook, by Jamie Aebersold

Caveat: The books are absolutely free, but it may take you months, or even years to absorb it completely without help. The best way to use this material is by working with a real (flesh and blood) teacher (and it will still take months of study to fully absorb; years to reach mastery).

Cheers,
++aldo

I thinnk what some folks are missing here is the concept that studying anything only reinforces what you already know, corrects the false discoveries and gives you perspective, that you can choose to acknowledge or ignore.

Knowing theory does give you chops, nor does having chops give you application with understanding.

I originally was self taught. Over the years I've taken a piano lesson here and there, I couldn't play with both hands, bass on left, accompaniment on the right. But I eventually got past that point and began to inquire about the tensions between the chords and I eventually found myself looking at theory.

One of the reasons I began to study music, has to revolve around the way I work. I work with musicians ALOT. Talented guys, some trained, some are degree holders in music, some are degree holders in other stuff thats equally impressive. I have a degree in Philosophy and Computer Science. GO figure lol. But I learned that lacking any skillset that allows you communicate with musicians is a potential obstacle and all it takes is a matter of time to learn some of the terms and why they are used when you talk to players. I was really fortunate this year to start the recording of The Goonies second album which has even more live instruments than before (more horns, real string sections, real drums) and also I have an instrumental project with my drummer friend. He has a degree in music and knows how to write string arrangements! I remember bgrotto talking about how this can be a caveat for producers trying to use string players, so I guess he kind of gives me a nice lift in that department, plus he can play the drums really well.

Chad (the drummer) and I talk in musical terms ALOT. He usually plays guitar and drums and when we're piecing a section together, rather than speaking in sounds, we will sometimes just speak in chords. Hey hit the 7 chord, naw that sounds more like a 7th. And the more we associate those types of sounds with those phrases, eventually your ear and your brain start to associate the sounds with the symbols as well, unprompted. Every now and then, I'm beginning to know what key something is by hearing it or hearing the progression. It all pays off in the end. IT will make you a better composer, if you study up on music. Now this doesn't mean you HAVE to, but learning a skill, getting information is not going to harm your development as a musician. I learned to write sheet music this summer, drummer notation and took a little bit more piano. It didn't suddenly turn everything into 1s and 5s and sus chords and 7ths. I still go at it the same, stilll make beats through the same process, but have more tricks up the sleeve and more tools. Who can argue with that??

Just sayin....

Peace
Illumination

Learn music and generate your own f***ing chords!!!

Yes! I'm considering adding this to my sig.

This is truly a great thread ( IMO ). I can't count how many times I've heard Hip Hop tracks where the samples don't match what's being played, or the chord progressions not matching the "lead" parts. Music theory should really be a prerequisite in my opinion. Music theory could very well be the difference between a lot of cats being "beat makers" instead of producers. There's nothing worse than knowing something doesn't sound right but being unable to decipher what it is. And unfortunately this trend is not just specific to HIP HIP but R&B as well. It almost seems as though one has to listen to Pop or Country to hear something "fresh". There's more to life than club beats.......

chord progressions great but i've put 2 nice ppl who know their progressions n i still kill em .. u need to really undastand the instruments the drums n if the sounds put together create that type of feel ur goin for and if the melody is on it ... no matter if there is progression or not . melody or not ...its all about the beat... now a these days .. u tryin to musicality us to death or give us banging shiiii ..... my biggest advice tighten up the drum accent the main hook.. bell a. snap a sound ... wha ever it is doesnt have to be melodic ... n ull kick... most these cats on this u have to know this or that are wha ever ... prolly make these pretty music but they dobt do bangers

if hiphop n rnb was christmas ur scrudge who cant enjoy the piece just because all the notes that should be the.. sus7 minor changes to the third of the root notes werent suppose to be there at one point but these changes created the music now so u should understand music before u critique music...

Greeeeaaaaaat thread!

tonespace 2.0 chorder

fun AND educational. Learn while you cheat!

It's crazy how helpful posts get off the rails so fast.

Fuggup!

Thanks for the post OP!

after sampling there is no cheating

I've been reading gs for awhile now and I finally decided to post something. Wanted to say thanks for all your guys help. Here's the question I have.

I understand that you can form 7 different chords from each key. Like audio already posted, these are the seven chords for the key of C.

I = C = C E G
ii = Dm = D F A
iii = Em = E G B
IV = F = F A C
V = G = G B D
vi = Am = A C E
vii-dim = Bm dim = B D F

But how do you know that these are the 7 chords? What type of formula does this follow?
Thanks

Hell yea.


This tool really is helpful...I hate how some people are so quick to dismiss these.

I look at music like math...as long as you got the right answer...it doesn't matter how you got there. And the great part is...there is no right answer

Another tool that helped me a lot is 7Aliens W2 Harmonizer... it basically locks your keyboard into the scale you select... so if you're using a mono synth you can kinda teach yourself to play the scale because it won't play anything BUT the scale notes..

Good trainer.

You create the respective triads by stacking consecutive thirds upon each other, 4 note chords are a bit different though.

They follow the church modes of old named after the greek islands. You form every diatonic chord in the scale by pressing every other note in the scale. This changes a tad for some chords when you hit dominant 7, major 7, minor 7 etc or any other higher permutation of chords, 9ths 11ths 13ths flat 9s etc.
But for your standard diatonic triads, stack a consecutive third on each note and in regards to diatonic 7 chords, they are formed off your church modes, Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian, Aeolian and Locrian. Hit every other note in the scale and it will form its respective diatonic chord.

Diatonic I chord - C - skip D - E - skip F - G
Diatonic II chord - D - skip E - F skip G - A
etc etc etc
These carry on and form your basic

I IV, V diatonic major chords
II III,VI minor chords
and your diminished 7 chord For major scales.

For minor scales it is the same however in western music the harmonic minor is used in which you sharp the 7th degree of the scale to create increased tension between the leading tone and the tonic. So if you were in C minor (C D Eb F G Ab Bb) the Bb would become B and in turn the 5 chord would be a major chord instead of a minor resulting from this raising. Turning what would normally be G minor chord into a G major chord.

Try it: Play 2 I IV V chord progressions
1. Using the natural minor C Eb G - F Ab C - G Bb D
2. Using the harmonic minor C Eb G - F Ab C - G B D

you will see how the second progression sounds much more tense, like it is waiting for something.

The above does not hold true for the minor 7th chord tonic 1 chord. The the C minor 7 chord would thus still be C Eb G Bb and not C Eb G B.
This in turn gives you the formula

Tonic I and Subdominant IV minor chords

Mediant III, Dominant V and Submediant VI Major chords

and Supertonic II and Leading tone VII diminished chords.

The diatonic III chord in minor scales is sometimes augmented in keeping with the harmonic variant of major scales.

Again remember though this changes sometimes when you hit 4 note chords of certain chords. For example it is commonly accepted that the V7 is a dominant 7 chord, however in a 1 4 5 progression if the major 7 chord ( G B D F#, notice F# is a non diatonic note) sounds better to you then by all means use it, not to say that it is wrong to use it but a large part of this comes down to artistic preference, bending the rules without breaking them. Which is why someone in their previous post put "allowed" in quotations.

If your goal is simply to be a rich and famous producer, then learning music theory is unnecessary and very probably harmful to your prospects. Reason being is that you will start to broaden your horizons and be lead down different paths that you previously weren't open to. While you're off exploring the significance of late 19C chromaticism, your artistically-limited single-minded competition has been sitting around refining their style to perfection.

I started out sampling in 1994. I didn't attempt to play any instruments or learn theory until about 2000/2001. I had a rough grasp of how chords functioned after 6 months, but it probably wasn't until 2007 or so that I could listen to any song and recreate the notes and chords by ear. So it takes about that long to get to that point. Just know that if you bother, you're in for a long ride.

I would recommend starting off by studying The Beatles. You may or may not like their music, but there's so much literature on them, that it's a great starting point. Look up Alan W. Pollack's analysis site on google. Then get the large $50 white Beatles - Complete Scores book. That will give you all of the parts written out. Then go track down a "Real Book" and see what kind of chord progressions are used in jazz standards. This will show you how m7, maj7, dom7, and diminished chords are typically used and how writers go in and out of bridge sections and so forth.

for hip hop imo learning music theory is kinda waste of time.
you're better off learning about breaks and loops and how to get that thump and boom bap going.
nobody will care about your musically intricate stuff in hip hop if it ain't bumpin'.

for pop etc yeah why not learn some.

I agree....look at Boon Doc. He was straight sampling and his beats had a good mixture of grit. Now he is more of a neo-soul hybrid guy. His sound definitely changed because of his time dedicated to the keys.

Eh, there are no rules in hip hop. It can sound great over 1 chord or even a naked drum break.

Not sure if I would agree that music theory is a waste of time in any sense, I don't see how learning it would hurt or hinder you in any way. Someone mentioned earlier that music theory would take one down different routes and avenues and that while you are studying music theory someone else is there perfecting their craft.

I think however that the responsibility lies with the composer as to how far to take the study. I mean it wouldn't make any sense to simply just pick up learning it with no idea as to where you are going and as to what you are trying to achieve. Before any theory is learnt it should be firmly within one's mind as to what you trying to get out of theory and how it will help to shape the sound you are going after. Whether that study is skin deep or highly in depth is up to the person undertaking it. Mind you do not misconstrue necessity with assistance. I am not by any means saying that it is absolutely necessary to learn it because as we know that is not the case. However if we can by undertaking the study of music theory improve our productions by 5%, 10% would it not be helpful to do so? Is not continued improvement what we are aiming for? To make the best music we possibly can?

IMO you don't have to learn every aspect of music theory. I spent years stopping and starting on theory because I was biting off more than I needed. I naturally have a good ear for harmony, groove, and rhythm and a decent grasp of melody. The most important parts of theory for me was the circle of fifths and knowing how to build the different types of chords and the concept of consonance and dissonance in creating moods. After that I can just pick up a little more here and there between creative bursts

Thanks to the aristocrat for taking the time to write that response for me. Been doing so more research and I'm sure I'll have some questions here soon. Thanks

Glad I could help.

Exactly my opinion too. You don't have to go crazy deep into theory. But I think you should know some stuff. Not just playing notes and trying to come up w/ something that sounds good.

Back when people were JUST sampling and then throwing a bass line under the sample to match it, you didn't need to really know much theory. Now the game has changed and beats have became more musical so you have people who play instruments making beats and sampling an adding their own stuff on top. Anybody making beats today IMO should know some theory

Thanks for this - very useful indeed.

Damn... Wow... I'm with MG on this... (bring MG back, lol)

But yea...why don't more people teach it like this? EVERYBODY should teach it like that. And I've watched tons of chord and scale training on YouTube.