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Panning Tips Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 27th September 2008
  #91
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Marogru's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillysoulman View Post
Why dont you ever pan hard??

Are you a noob???
Maybe never its a bit too far, but I mostly like to pan like I'd be seeing a choir in front of me, not 10ppl standing on eachothers heads on my far left and my far right. I like to see where they are standing simply.
Old 27th September 2008
  #92
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phillysoulman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nicolasmasset View Post
Ok dude, so where is this "City Of Brotherly Love And Sisterly Affection"?
Probably not in Europe? Lemme guess, Philadelphia? heh
Yes
Old 30th September 2008
  #93
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illacov's Avatar
 

Philly a question for you..

Quote:
Originally Posted by phillysoulman View Post
When recording background vocals for R&B/pop songs, to acquire that wide,spacial effect, here is what I usually do dedicating twelve tracks.

Lets say you are recording a three part harmony part.
Start by recording each part mono.

First part (usually the middle note) four stacks.
Second part(high note) four stacks
Third part (low note) four stacks.
When panning,pan each note hard left and hard right

Now pan your first four tracks L-R-L-R-
Second four tracks L-R-L-R-
Third four tracks L-R-L-R-

Now when satisfied with your blend,place all twelve tracks on a group but keeping them all separate.
Now solo your group so you can hear the result of your effort and decide whether you need to hi pass .

Open a stereo aux fader and insert a nice,smooth eq of choice with maybe a 14hz shelf, a slight 5k boost and a further hpf if needed.
I like using the URS CSP for this purpose, and sometimes the Sonalkiss 517.
Now bus send each of the 12 tracks to the aux.
Open another stereo aux send and insert a nice,smooth plate at about 2 seconds with maybe a 120ms predelay and open another bus sent to that aux..
Adjust your aux returns to taste and...voila.
I find that stacks for harmonies can work, but I never really go that far with the root. I tend to do a double/unison for the main, as close as possible in tracking. Then for the wings of the harmony, I do singles.

I tend to approach harmonies like if its a 3 part, 4 part, 5 part harmony then the harmony should be big/work with just that many parts.

I can see how your method would work though, definitely alot of expanse.

If I do ever overdub on top of the harmony bed tracks, one thing I like to do is switch mikes. Believe it or not, either an SDC or a SM58. Here's where the vocal technique comes in. Since you don't want to always go crazy thick on harmony vox, I tend to go in airy right from the roof of the mouth on these tracks, so that they add more articulation than anything. I think moreso than anything that when you get into the stacked vox department you gotta know your vocal technique otherwise all this gear related stuff is useless.

Anyhoo once thats all done. You would wind up with about 7 to 10 tracks remember this stuff has to work, you just don't record it because you need more tracks of harmonies lol.

What I tend to do is and here's where its fun for me to engineer. I do lots of hard panning but I also mess around with offset alot.

Sometimes what I'll do is (music theory numbskull alert!) take what I call the 3rds (probably not 3rds but I call them that.) and have both takes of them panned hard left and hard right. Then for the 5ths yes I know probably not 5ths but you gotta call em something, I do the same thing, so that you get these little harmony meldings on the right and left sides but with the offset it creates this dope stereo effect. Then the center which is home to the root, has the LDC fullness, since the sides get alot of eq work done for hi pass etc....It kind of holds it all together. Whenever I do harmony stabs this has always work wonders for me.

What I like to do in Reaper is create an aux, just like philly, that has like a chorus, reverb and delay on it, perhaps even a leslie simulator. And whenever those stabs pop in BOOM! Always ear and eye catching. Sounds very cool. Love it with slap back echo or tape echo sim.

I tend not to parallel compress as much with the harmony stacks, however I'm sure it would work fine in the right application. What I usually do if I'm satisfied with the eq during tracking is do lots of eq on the effects versus the source vox. But I will give Philly's method a try. Maybe you should call it Philadelphia EQ, like New York Compression lol.

Automation on auxes is phat too! You can always create those dope fades on delays that sound insane for certain songs. Draw that envelope in and watch the panties get wet! Dope for ballads like You are my Starship.

Try a vocoder on those harmony auxes too with a fade in. Man oh Man! Philly you opened the floodgates. I used to track R and B day and night. Now just the Hip Hop band, but I use all my R and B tricks in the recording and mixing process.


Still working on getting my first talkbox like Peter Frampton or Roger Troutman. Got like the undying desire to either buy or build one!

Peace
Illumination
Old 30th September 2008
  #94
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phillysoulman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by illacov View Post
I find that stacks for harmonies can work, but I never really go that far with the root. I tend to do a double/unison for the main, as close as possible in tracking. Then for the wings of the harmony, I do singles.

I tend to approach harmonies like if its a 3 part, 4 part, 5 part harmony then the harmony should be big/work with just that many parts.

I can see how your method would work though, definitely alot of expanse.

If I do ever overdub on top of the harmony bed tracks, one thing I like to do is switch mikes. Believe it or not, either an SDC or a SM58. Here's where the vocal technique comes in. Since you don't want to always go crazy thick on harmony vox, I tend to go in airy right from the roof of the mouth on these tracks, so that they add more articulation than anything. I think moreso than anything that when you get into the stacked vox department you gotta know your vocal technique otherwise all this gear related stuff is useless.

Anyhoo once thats all done. You would wind up with about 7 to 10 tracks remember this stuff has to work, you just don't record it because you need more tracks of harmonies lol.

What I tend to do is and here's where its fun for me to engineer. I do lots of hard panning but I also mess around with offset alot.

Sometimes what I'll do is (music theory numbskull alert!) take what I call the 3rds (probably not 3rds but I call them that.) and have both takes of them panned hard left and hard right. Then for the 5ths yes I know probably not 5ths but you gotta call em something, I do the same thing, so that you get these little harmony meldings on the right and left sides but with the offset it creates this dope stereo effect. Then the center which is home to the root, has the LDC fullness, since the sides get alot of eq work done for hi pass etc....It kind of holds it all together. Whenever I do harmony stabs this has always work wonders for me.

What I like to do in Reaper is create an aux, just like philly, that has like a chorus, reverb and delay on it, perhaps even a leslie simulator. And whenever those stabs pop in BOOM! Always ear and eye catching. Sounds very cool. Love it with slap back echo or tape echo sim.

I tend not to parallel compress as much with the harmony stacks, however I'm sure it would work fine in the right application. What I usually do if I'm satisfied with the eq during tracking is do lots of eq on the effects versus the source vox. But I will give Philly's method a try. Maybe you should call it Philadelphia EQ, like New York Compression lol.

Automation on auxes is phat too! You can always create those dope fades on delays that sound insane for certain songs. Draw that envelope in and watch the panties get wet! Dope for ballads like You are my Starship.

Try a vocoder on those harmony auxes too with a fade in. Man oh Man! Philly you opened the floodgates. I used to track R and B day and night. Now just the Hip Hop band, but I use all my R and B tricks in the recording and mixing process.


Still working on getting my first talkbox like Peter Frampton or Roger Troutman. Got like the undying desire to either buy or build one!

Peace
Illumination
The way my vocal bv sessions usually go is that in the way the bvs are voiced and relative to the texture of the singers I like to use, the root melody is not over emphasized but part of the whole picture.
I sometimes have the singers switch parts for textural subleties.
I have two vintage Lang eqs that have a 20khz band for that "airy" thing.
Old 30th September 2008
  #95
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illacov's Avatar
 

Cool!

Quote:
Originally Posted by phillysoulman View Post
The way my vocal bv sessions usually go is that in the way the bvs are voiced and relative to the texture of the singers I like to use, the root melody is not over emphasized but part of the whole picture.
I sometimes have the singers switch parts for textural subleties.
I have two vintage Lang eqs that have a 20khz band for that "airy" thing.
So no airy singing, just airy effects? haha

I remember there was this thread on here about how they got Chris Brown's and Jordin Sparks' voices to sound so airy. I was just slapping my forehead the whole time.

Thats right up there with how do you get your snare drum to do that clickety clack noise??

Man!

I still prefer the real deal if it can happen. Most of the time its me doing all the harmonies though so I just sing airy. I got a bit of range too, so its fun singing low and flat to thicken things up, works really good for hip hop choruses too, using that really low voice, puts legs on the chorus.

My wife does tag in sometimes for harmonies, she's the one who taught me how to sing (SHH!). Nice to have either a male voice blended in with lots of female voices or a female voice blended in with lots of male ones to add a little vibe.

And yeah, I HATE doubling or copy pasting vox. I love the natural rub you get from just simply recording multiple good takes of phrases and mixing them together with hard pans and offset. Much more realistic. This is the way you make dope hip hop choruses when you want that super big stereo chorus.

I like raspy choruses. I love harmony chants. They are the ****! Like Fela Kuti type stuff. Man I am digging it! Great way to make fake crowds!

Peace
Illumination
Old 30th September 2008
  #96
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phillysoulman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by illacov View Post
So no airy singing, just airy effects? haha

I remember there was this thread on here about how they got Chris Brown's and Jordin Sparks' voices to sound so airy. I was just slapping my forehead the whole time.

Thats right up there with how do you get your snare drum to do that clickety clack noise??

Man!

I still prefer the real deal if it can happen. Most of the time its me doing all the harmonies though so I just sing airy. I got a bit of range too, so its fun singing low and flat to thicken things up, works really good for hip hop choruses too, using that really low voice, puts legs on the chorus.

My wife does tag in sometimes for harmonies, she's the one who taught me how to sing (SHH!). Nice to have either a male voice blended in with lots of female voices or a female voice blended in with lots of male ones to add a little vibe.

And yeah, I HATE doubling or copy pasting vox. I love the natural rub you get from just simply recording multiple good takes of phrases and mixing them together with hard pans and offset. Much more realistic. This is the way you make dope hip hop choruses when you want that super big stereo chorus.

I like raspy choruses. I love harmony chants. They are the ****! Like Fela Kuti type stuff. Man I am digging it! Great way to make fake crowds!

Peace
Illumination
In the kind music I mostly do,which is r&b..not the crap they CALL r&b, but r&b in the real sense, I always have my singers sing soft and "breathy" and close to the mike to capture that "air".
Use an AKG 414,hpf activated, mike set to omni.. use 10 db pad if needed.
The multi stacks are what creates the subtle chorusing which takes place naturally when using this approach.
Even when recording more uptempo songs I use the same approach.

Listen to any of the great mid seventies Philly records and you will hear what Im talking about.
Old 1st October 2008
  #97
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by phillysoulman View Post
When recording background vocals for R&B/pop songs, to acquire that wide,spacial effect, here is what I usually do dedicating twelve tracks.

Lets say you are recording a three part harmony part.
Start by recording each part mono.

First part (usually the middle note) four stacks.
Second part(high note) four stacks
Third part (low note) four stacks.
When panning,pan each note hard left and hard right

Now pan your first four tracks L-R-L-R-
Second four tracks L-R-L-R-
Third four tracks L-R-L-R-

Now when satisfied with your blend,place all twelve tracks on a group but keeping them all separate.
Now solo your group so you can hear the result of your effort and decide whether you need to hi pass .

Open a stereo aux fader and insert a nice,smooth eq of choice with maybe a 14hz shelf, a slight 5k boost and a further hpf if needed.
I like using the URS CSP for this purpose, and sometimes the Sonalkiss 517.
Now bus send each of the 12 tracks to the aux.
Open another stereo aux send and insert a nice,smooth plate at about 2 seconds with maybe a 120ms predelay and open another bus sent to that aux..
Adjust your aux returns to taste and...voila.
I agree and I do it like that. I also start with the mid notes.
I would add this tip right here:

Pan the highest parts harder LR than the mid parts and the mid parts harder than the low parts. The higher the part the more you can pan it.

It varies but it can maybe look like this:

Hi 75%
Mid 50%
Low 35%
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