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Panning Tips Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 29th August 2008
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nukmusic View Post
who said anything about being the same? and DUDE, who said anything about GTRs?

why the fuk is everyone on this "MY WAY or NO WAY" trip??? seriously? Different engineers do different ****. what's so hard to understand?

What works for you, works for you, what works for others simply works for others.
Why you so mad dude? First off, you glossed over the point. The point is that YOU stated that you will copy and alter files a little if there are not enough stacks. That is what I was pointing out. It is lazy as **** to produce that way. It can be guitars/vocals..whatever. I brought up guitars because if you know anything about recording guitars, you would know what I was talking about.

I don't copy files and I don't produce lazy. If I have to spend an extra 2 hours to nail down 4 tight takes, that is what is going to happen.

The main point is that the huge result is not just coming from the panning. It is the original production. You can pan 1,000 ways and argue which platinum producers do which, who cares. If you are lazy and doing copypasta, you aren't doing it right!
Old 29th August 2008
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Methlab View Post
Why you so mad dude? First off, you glossed over the point. The point is that YOU stated that you will copy and alter files a little if there are not enough stacks. That is what I was pointing out. It is lazy as **** to produce that way. It can be guitars/vocals..whatever. I brought up guitars because if you know anything about recording guitars, you would know what I was talking about.

I don't copy files and I don't produce lazy. If I have to spend an extra 2 hours to nail down 4 tight takes, that is what is going to happen.

The main point is that the huge result is not just coming from the panning. It is the original production. You can pan 1,000 ways and argue which platinum producers do which, who cares. If you are lazy and doing copypasta, you aren't doing it right!

dam...what part of the word ASSUMPTIONS dont people get?

stop assuming others DON"T know what's going on in recording music on OR ignore the fact that sometimes you have to work with what session/tracks you were given to work with.

Stop assuming every session/track is perfectly recorded the way it should be.

Stop assuming you are the only one that knows ****.

stop

please
Old 29th August 2008
  #63
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phillysoulman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nukmusic View Post
Philly... the main problem I (& so many others) see is that you seem very stubborn at times. You ya might be cool as **** in person.
If you'd step back and openingly read many of your own replies you'd see what's up. Yes, you may have learned from "GREATS" but you seem to forget(or ignore) that many others have also learned from Great engineers. Both great old school and great new school engineers. Some continue to do exactly what they learned and nothing more...some choose to take things a step further and experiment and delevop other techniques that work very well.

You share good info but so many times you really get one sided and say a lot of harsh **** when others choose to do things differently. or as you say "being hard headed" Its not that serious man. Its an internet forum and if you didnt notice...so many different people do so many different things.
AND so many earn nice money doing what they do.
ANd hell, some folks are making mo' money than many very successful engineers.
No need to FORCE your way of doing things onto people. People love SSL boards, people love NEVE boards, people love ITB or Hybrid. who's right or wrong? neither

Assumptions are very dangerous. Gearslutz has changed big time because of it. So many assume too much. They're smart and everyone else is dumb.
There was a time when folks would share info/tips and at the same time agree to disagree without trying to insult other folks. I guess that's just too hard to do now-a-days??? or maybe folks just type without thinking about how others will receive that message. Ya gotta remember we all are limited in using forums. There's only so much info you can type without making replies extremely long. So many details get left out.

In the end, there are better ways of expression.

Homes,if you dont like what I have to say,then dont read my posts.
I am always happy to share my vast knowledge.. and trust me I have tons of it...but you know what??
By the way some of you act,including yourself..I will NOT share any more of my valuable tips.
No F****ing way...not with your attitudes.
Old 29th August 2008
  #64
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Known Nuk for a minute... know that he has assisted on some pretty cool projects outta the D... what works for him, works for him... and not to put it on blast, but the techniques and where he's absorbing his info, comes from a Camp the has garnered incredible success engineering wise this year... and next years gonna be huge for them...

Thats neither here nor there... Nuks, prolly not usta Philly Cats... Philly cats have very strong personalities... it's kinda hard to explain... pretty much straight to business... the softest Backpack rapper would prolly beat the snot bubbles outta the goons in any town... B'more to Philly have a totally different struggle than any city I've ever been to... if you ever had a convo with Black Thought you'd swear he was more pissed than Beans... and that has nothing to do with Flatbush... it's like every cat from Philly was once Golden Gloves... and if they lose... they'll beg you to shoot them a fair one.

My 2 cents...
Old 29th August 2008
  #65
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nukmusic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by phillysoulman View Post
Homes,if you dont like what I have to say,then dont read my posts.
I am always happy to share my vast knowledge.. and trust me I have tons of it...but you know what??
By the way some of you act,including yourself..I will NOT share any more of my valuable tips.
No F****ing way...not with your attitudes.
must be hard to look in the mirror.

but Philly do whatever u please cause you know what they said about "one monkey"
Old 29th August 2008
  #66
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nukmusic's Avatar
 

Jay..you don't have to point out what I do. As you know I usually don't tell folks too much. I let them ASSUME what they may. I stopped caring about fame a very long time ago. Just make sure the check is correct so can can enjoy life with my family.

and jay.. I'm from New Orleans...use to all type of folks.

Just crazy that some folks go all out over simple ****. seriously.
but I'm out man. seems like a waste of time trying to get gearslutz like it use to be.
Old 29th August 2008
  #67
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Autotune Prophet's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by phillysoulman View Post
Homes,if you dont like what I have to say,then dont read my posts.
I am always happy to share my vast knowledge.. and trust me I have tons of it...but you know what??
By the way some of you act,including yourself..I will NOT share any more of my valuable tips.
No F****ing way...not with your attitudes.
I would strongly suggest (and I am sure I am not the only one on this forum to believe so, although I may now be the only one to say it) that you should NOT stop giving advices phillysoulman!

This forum needs people like yourself, people who have a lot of real studio experience both as an engineer and a musician.

However, with all that said, I simply do not understand why you seem to have such difficulties to involve yourself in a discussion without confusing every diverging opinion with an insult to your own person.

After all, this is a FORUM: its very essence is and shall remain discussion.

Old 29th August 2008
  #68
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phillysoulman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Autotune Prophet View Post
I would strongly suggest (and I am sure I am not the only one on this forum to believe so, although I may now be the only one to say it) that you should NOT stop giving advices phillysoulman!

This forum needs people like yourself, people who have a lot of real studio experience both as an engineer and a musician.

However, with all that said, I simply do not understand why you seem to have such difficulties to involve yourself in a discussion without confusing every diverging opinion with an insult to your own person.

After all, this is a FORUM: its very essence is and shall remain discussion.

Hi ATP..

I always believe in the saying "Each one,teach one" and although Ive been around for a hot minute or so,I do learn different things from the "rap contingent" as well.

I dont profess to know all there is to know regarding our trade, that is why I believe that everyone has the right to express the way that they go about creating ideas.

I never ever said that you must do things a certain way,I just offer advice which may just open new pathways beyond what may be considered one dimensional by some.
As they say "there are many ways to skin a cat"(horrible expression by the way) so at the end of the day,as long as the end result is pleasing to all involved, its a win win situation.
Old 30th August 2008
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillysoulman View Post
When recording background vocals for R&B/pop songs, to acquire that wide,spacial effect, here is what I usually do dedicating twelve tracks.

Lets say you are recording a three part harmony part.
Start by recording each part mono.

First part (usually the middle note) four stacks.
Second part(high note) four stacks
Third part (low note) four stacks.
When panning,pan each note hard left and hard right

Now pan your first four tracks L-R-L-R-
Second four tracks L-R-L-R-
Third four tracks L-R-L-R-

Now when satisfied with your blend,place all twelve tracks on a group but keeping them all separate.
Now solo your group so you can hear the result of your effort and decide whether you need to hi pass .

Open a stereo aux fader and insert a nice,smooth eq of choice with maybe a 14hz shelf, a slight 5k boost and a further hpf if needed.
I like using the URS CSP for this purpose, and sometimes the Sonalkiss 517.
Now bus send each of the 12 tracks to the aux.
Open another stereo aux send and insert a nice,smooth plate at about 2 seconds with maybe a 120ms predelay and open another bus sent to that aux..
Adjust your aux returns to taste and...voila.
Hi all, how bout I bring back a bit of humor into this thread by asking a TOTALLY noob question!

I'm going to try and explain how my noobness understands your method I'm working on a track where I sing a simple 'Ooooh yeah'-chorus with this girl. She sings 3 notes higher. So I'm guessing she's the "high note" and I'm the "low note" in our "two-part harmony"?

- So I would need to duplicate both our tracks x 4, 8 tracks in total. (Or do you mean record 4 different takes for her and me?!)
- Pan my 4 tracks LRLR
- Pan her 4 tracks LRLR (but why 4? Isn't 2 tracks L R enough? Isn't LRLR just double the gain L and R?!)
- Send all of them to a STEREO bus and EQ high pass if neccessary.
- Then make two aux's: one with a smooth toneshaping EQ and another with a plate.
- The send each channel seperately to the EQ and plate. But how much? Don't I need to vary the amount here, since my voice has two identical tracks hard L and two identical hard R? Wouldn't that just be double the same effect L and R?

I hope you have the patience of helping me out, I still have a lot to learn to get my mixes nice and big!
PS: Do you always use effects like compression and eq on a bus rather than as an insert on the group itself? Why is that? To get a mix of the dry signal and the effect? And what if the plugin has such a wet/dry knob?
Old 31st August 2008
  #70
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ninjasoards's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by phillysoulman View Post
Nope..thats cheating and not the same effect.
And forget about all of those different "oclock settings" its bull**** asnd not the way its done for full effect
Its hard left and hard right
Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjasoards View Post
Interesting. Sam I Am posted on here not too long ago that he NEVER pans vocals hard left or right and always uses the different clock setting for harmonies. I used to pan hard but havent been lately.

Different strokes for different folks...
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillysoulman View Post
Yeah, and so???
SO...I was just pointing out that other successful engineers use a technique that u refer to as "bull****" with good results IMO.

Why the attitude? This was an interesting thread till u turned it into a total pissing match.

Ohhh! I remember ur the guy who **** all over Sam's sucka for love mix after listening to it on a youtube video. tutt

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/rap-h...cka-4-luv.html
Old 31st August 2008
  #71
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phillysoulman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjasoards View Post
SO...I was just pointing out that other successful engineers use a technique that u refer to as "bull****" with good results IMO.

Why the attitude? This was an interesting thread till u turned it into a total pissing match.

Ohhh! I remember ur the guy who **** all over Sam's sucka for love mix after listening to it on a youtube video. tutt

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/rap-h...cka-4-luv.html
What I posted were MY panning tips for bgvs.
Nowhere did it say that is the way it must be done.
I do stereo mixes and the proper use thereof is really lacking in a lot of modern mixes.
Old 2nd September 2008
  #72
Gear Addict
 
E-Irizarry's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillysoulman View Post
Hi ATP..

I always believe in the saying "Each one,teach one" and although Ive been around for a hot minute or so,I do learn different things from the "rap contingent" as well.

I dont profess to know all there is to know regarding our trade, that is why I believe that everyone has the right to express the way that they go about creating ideas.

I never ever said that you must do things a certain way,I just offer advice which may just open new pathways beyond what may be considered one dimensional by some.
As they say "there are many ways to skin a cat"(horrible expression by the way) so at the end of the day,as long as the end result is pleasing to all involved, its a win win situation.
W H A T H E S A I D +1
Old 2nd September 2008
  #73
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irthwirm's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nicolasmasset View Post
Hi all, how bout I bring back a bit of humor into this thread by asking a TOTALLY noob question!

I'm going to try and explain how my noobness understands your method I'm working on a track where I sing a simple 'Ooooh yeah'-chorus with this girl. She sings 3 notes higher. So I'm guessing she's the "high note" and I'm the "low note" in our "two-part harmony"?

- So I would need to duplicate both our tracks x 4, 8 tracks in total. (Or do you mean record 4 different takes for her and me?!)
- Pan my 4 tracks LRLR
- Pan her 4 tracks LRLR (but why 4? Isn't 2 tracks L R enough? Isn't LRLR just double the gain L and R?!)
- Send all of them to a STEREO bus and EQ high pass if neccessary.
- Then make two aux's: one with a smooth toneshaping EQ and another with a plate.
- The send each channel seperately to the EQ and plate. But how much? Don't I need to vary the amount here, since my voice has two identical tracks hard L and two identical hard R? Wouldn't that just be double the same effect L and R?

I hope you have the patience of helping me out, I still have a lot to learn to get my mixes nice and big!
PS: Do you always use effects like compression and eq on a bus rather than as an insert on the group itself? Why is that? To get a mix of the dry signal and the effect? And what if the plugin has such a wet/dry knob?
try duplicating the tracks 4 times pan LRLR and then trying singing it 4 different times LRLR and tell use what sounds better.heh

Try panning both L's at 9 oclock and both R's at 3 oclock. Then try a veration of 8 and 10 oclock and 5 and 2 oclock etc. TRY TRY TRY TRY see what happens
Old 2nd September 2008
  #74
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phillysoulman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by irthwirm View Post
try duplicating the tracks 4 times pan LRLR and then trying singing it 4 different times LRLR and tell use what sounds better.heh

Try panning both L's at 9 oclock and both R's at 3 oclock. Then try a veration of 8 and 10 oclock and 5 and 2 oclock etc. TRY TRY TRY TRY see what happens
Duplicating is NOT the same as physically recording the tracks four times.
Thats the lazy mans way.

You're missing the point here.

When you stack the vocals LIVE, you are getting the subtle(or not so subtle) phase cancellation associated with the process.
But hey, whatever floats your boat, as they say.
Old 2nd September 2008
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillysoulman View Post
When you stack the vocals LIVE, you are getting the subtle(or not so subtle) phase cancellation associated with the process.
So is that a good or bad thing? Don't you bypass the phase cancellation when you pan LR?
Old 3rd September 2008
  #76
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irthwirm's Avatar
 

no shizta phillysoulman I think "your" missing my point i was trying to make. I'm addressing the idea to try and find out for yourself. Those two methods if you even want to call one a method (the duplicating 4 tracks) sound like night and day. Even a non experienced engineer will hear the difference. Instead of people always trying to get specifics before trying. I say try first before getting to picky with details. They'll learn more that way. It's pretty clear on this forum how to accomplish this method, if people would just read more carefully and experiment for themselves first. IF they get stuck then fine, come back and state your problem or a more detailed question.
Old 3rd September 2008
  #77
Gear Maniac
 

when i listen to most rappers especially more in-between underground and mainstream, it seems like they have only 1 vocal track with 1 adlib track possibly a 3rd
Old 3rd September 2008
  #78
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irthwirm's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyscarbones View Post
when i listen to most rappers especially more in-between underground and mainstream, it seems like they have only 1 vocal track with 1 adlib track possibly a 3rd
that's what i prefer for verses but for the chorus it's nice to layer and make it big. But a lot of the chorus i've done in the past where more on a singing tune then a raping one.

But doesn't Plies Double his entire verse. sounds really phasey almost.
Old 3rd September 2008
  #79
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

some guinesspunch for dem excitable battyclaats dere?? heh Keep dem man cool with one man's way to da vox ting ......
Old 4th September 2008
  #80
Gear Addict
 

i can pee farther then anyone in this thread, seriously.
Old 4th September 2008
  #81
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E-Irizarry's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillysoulman View Post
Duplicating is NOT the same as physically recording the tracks four times.
Thats the lazy mans way.

You're missing the point here.

When you stack the vocals LIVE, you are getting the subtle(or not so subtle) phase cancellation associated with the process.
But hey, whatever floats your boat, as they say.
Yeah I totally concur. Whenever I listened to how engineers would stack the late Kenny Greene (of R&B group INTRO) and Brian McKnight's background vocals, the vocal formant and the millisecond delay between different vocals of making the same sound sounded so natural. The closest plugin that can get that "natural stacked layer" background vocal effect is Waves UltraPitch 3 & 6 voice editions.

Look at how the late Freddie Mercury's vocals were stacked by engineers!!! Man, he sounded like a god or like Moses commanding your attention from the skies or some ****.

HE's probably turning over in his grave now from all the cats using AutoTune and Melodyne.
Old 4th September 2008
  #82
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phillysoulman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by E-Irizarry View Post
Yeah I totally concur. Whenever I listened to how engineers would stack the late Kenny Greene (of R&B group INTRO) and Brian McKnight's background vocals, the vocal formant and the millisecond delay between different vocals of making the same sound sounded so natural. The closest plugin that can get that "natural stacked layer" background vocal effect is Waves UltraPitch 3 & 6 voice editions.

Look at how the late Freddie Mercury's vocals were stacked by engineers!!! Man, he sounded like a god or like Moses commanding your attention from the skies or some ****.

HE's probably turning over in his grave now from all the cats using AutoTune and Melodyne.

Yeah, homes... some of these dudes here just dont get it, do they?
Does the word "lazy" ring a bell??
All they are getting is more volume and nothing else.

I would LOVE to give some of these knuckleheads a few FREE engineering lessons... and then they will have one of those A HA moments(lol)
Old 4th September 2008
  #83
Gear Maniac
 

whatever tickles your pickle
Old 4th September 2008
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillysoulman View Post
I would LOVE to give some of these knuckleheads a few FREE engineering lessons...
Bring it on! I'm listening!
Old 4th September 2008
  #85
Moderator
 
Blast9's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by E-Irizarry View Post

Look at how the late Freddie Mercury's vocals were stacked by engineers!!! Man, he sounded like a god or like Moses commanding your attention from the skies or some ****.

HE's probably turning over in his grave now from all the cats using AutoTune and Melodyne.
LOL

Don't forget the voices of the other guys in Queen - that's what makes the stacks so special thumbsup

Thanks for the tips everyone
Old 4th September 2008
  #86
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phillysoulman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nicolasmasset View Post
Bring it on! I'm listening!
IN person!!!
Old 4th September 2008
  #87
Old 4th September 2008
  #88
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mdjice's Avatar
 

Each their own technics, mixing is like art they are no wrong ways, just different ones.
I sometimes mix wide left and right and sometimes i work in steps ( 30.60.90.100 for eg)
On the song cyclone I recorded myself: 2 main panned hard left and hard right and 2 lows panned 50 and 50. remember also that stacking multiple times can make the vocals fuller but can also make them messy and harder to understand. it really depends on the vocalist and the track (if the beat is already busy during the hook).
as mentioned in this post duplicating a track 3 times and panning the duplicate left and right is NOT a correct technic for stacking vocals but more an effect that can result in some phasing which can be cool if that's what the song is calling for.
M.
Old 4th September 2008
  #89
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nukmusic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdjice View Post
Each their own technics, mixing is like art they are no wrong ways, just different ones.
I sometimes mix wide left and right and sometimes i work in steps ( 30.60.90.100 for eg)
On the song cyclone I recorded myself: 2 main panned hard left and hard right and 2 lows panned 50 and 50. remember also that stacking multiple times can make the vocals fuller but can also make them messy and harder to understand. it really depends on the vocalist and the track (if the beat is already busy during the hook).
as mentioned in this post duplicating a track 3 times and panning the duplicate left and right is NOT a correct technic for stacking vocals but more an effect that can result in some phasing which can be cool if that's what the song is calling for.
M.

man, I remember one time we were zeroing the board, setting up to mix a song. played the session and started pushing faders to hear what's going on. Found that on the 3 part chrous there were only two stacks of the top & middle, and one of the bottom. No problem..lets check the regions list...NOPE. Called up the producer/studio to see if there was another session that we could import from. Even asked if there was a way to quickly track more parts. No can do. Producer and artist were in separate cities and the timing just didnt allow the mix you be held up.

So...$end back the $e$$ion and check cause its not how we would have liked it., or do what we do?? Very easy answer. (work with what we have)
tweaked the mix, and final got to the chorus. How can we make it better?

tried a few doubling plugins..sounds ok but, nope
created a new playlist, then
dubbed the stacks...nope, only got louder.
added pitch-shifting ...sounds ok but, nope
nudge tracks, nope
bussed stacks out into a hardware preamp and rerecord new takes...sounds ok but, nope

humm.. what's different on correctly pitched vox stacks? aaahhhh Humm... TTTTiming.

So we dubbed the stacks again, time-compressed some and time-expanded others just a tiny bit.(slightly changed the files)
YAAAAAAA.. that's it, that's it!!
and the laziness only took about 20 minutes. Mix turned of great. Clients were happy, producer thought we were Gods, ended up getting several other projects to do.

Lesson we learned: Keep our heads out our own asses, experiment, and learn something new.
Old 5th September 2008
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillysoulman View Post
IN person!!!
Ok dude, so where is this "City Of Brotherly Love And Sisterly Affection"?
Probably not in Europe? Lemme guess, Philadelphia? heh
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