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Panning Tips Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 28th August 2008
  #31
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rasclaat batty boy! heh
Old 28th August 2008
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickrock305 View Post
rasclaat batty boy! heh
I forgot about that one..
I should know deese tings
eh mon were did jah put dat sea moss...make yur back strong....
Old 28th August 2008
  #33
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have you tried izotope's trash. I really like their delay stuff on that. messed with the psp but not crazy about it. I need to spend more time on it. The trash one is quick and very effective
Old 28th August 2008
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irthwirm View Post
have you tried izotope's trash. I really like their delay stuff on that. messed with the psp but not crazy about it. I need to spend more time on it. The trash one is quick and very effective
Trash is an entirely different animal, as its delay parameters are meant to be gritty.
Not really my cup of tea for most apps.
Old 28th August 2008
  #35
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i wouldn't say trash is all gritty. But yeah most of it is based of distortion just be subtle about... or no
Old 28th August 2008
  #36
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i wouldn't say trash is all gritty. But yeah most of it is based off distortion just be subtle about... or no

opps sorry for the double post
just pan one post left and pan the other post right and that should give a nice wide post sound..
Old 28th August 2008
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillysoulman View Post
When recording background vocals for R&B/pop songs, to acquire that wide,spacial effect, here is what I usually do dedicating twelve tracks.

Lets say you are recording a three part harmony part.
Start by recording each part mono.

First part (usually the middle note) four stacks.
Second part(high note) four stacks
Third part (low note) four stacks.
When panning,pan each note hard left and hard right

Now pan your first four tracks L-R-L-R-
Second four tracks L-R-L-R-
Third four tracks L-R-L-R-

Now when satisfied with your blend,place all twelve tracks on a group but keeping them all separate.
Now solo your group so you can hear the result of your effort and decide whether you need to hi pass .

Open a stereo aux fader and insert a nice,smooth eq of choice with maybe a 14hz shelf, a slight 5k boost and a further hpf if needed.
I like using the URS CSP for this purpose, and sometimes the Sonalkiss 517.
Now bus send each of the 12 tracks to the aux.
Open another stereo aux send and insert a nice,smooth plate at about 2 seconds with maybe a 120ms predelay and open another bus sent to that aux..
Adjust your aux returns to taste and...voila.

Hey philly, just to add to your already amazing thread "Not Thread Jacking" lol, i was messing around in cubase after a R&B session with a singer we were working with....And we tried your technique, except we added a third Stereo Aux fader and put a Small Chorus effect on it, except we only sent it to the harmony parts, of course this required some serious grouping of channels, and may i add, its sounding real lovely...I forget the settings we used otherwise i'll share, but thanx.PHILLYthumbsup

Hey im not good at engineering but i kno what sounds right, i got a long way to go....
Old 28th August 2008
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyflo View Post
Hey philly, just to add to your already amazing thread "Not Thread Jacking" lol, i was messing around in cubase after a R&B session with a singer we were working with....And we tried your technique, except we added a third Stereo Aux fader and put a Small Chorus effect on it, except we only sent it to the harmony parts, of course this required some serious grouping of channels, and may i add, its sounding real lovely...I forget the settings we used otherwise i'll share, but thanx.PHILLYthumbsup

Hey im not good at engineering but i kno what sounds right, i got a long way to go....
Cool beans!

BTW..I neglected to mention that when you bus send your individual tracks to your aux faders, make sure to pan the sends in the same manner as the tracks.
Old 28th August 2008
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillysoulman View Post
Cool beans!

BTW..I neglected to mention that when you bus send your individual tracks to your aux faders, make sure to pan the sends in the same manner as the tracks.


how about panning them opposite? for example, if you ahve your dry track panned hard left, pan the send hard right. or you can just keep them panned the same as the main tracks and just reverse the pan on the actual reverb aux.

i like doing that, creates a bit more depth.
Old 28th August 2008
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickrock305 View Post
how about panning them opposite? for example, if you ahve your dry track panned hard left, pan the send hard right. or you can just keep them panned the same as the main tracks and just reverse the pan on the actual reverb aux.

i like doing that, creates a bit more depth.
That works too
Old 28th August 2008
  #41
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Holy crap this makes a world of difference...so much more depth! Thanks from a newbie thumbsup
Old 28th August 2008
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nukmusic View Post
huh??

there's one thing in music that I've been taught very early on is ..."whatever sounds right IS RIGHT". You can't ever question that.

so many different ways of doing things Philly.

out
Dude..no. What you said is not the same at all.

For example, with guitars. If you know how to track guitars, you never copy and paste them. You get the best performances you can, as tight as possible. I do 4 different takes on guitar and hard pan LR. It sounds 1,000 times better then copy paste because the slight variations cause a chorus effect that makes everything sound big.

This can not be duplicated any other way.
Old 28th August 2008
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Methlab View Post
Dude..no. What you said is not the same at all.

For example, with guitars. If you know how to track guitars, you never copy and paste them. You get the best performances you can, as tight as possible. I do 4 different takes on guitar and hard pan LR. It sounds 1,000 times better then copy paste because the slight variations cause a chorus effect that makes everything sound big.

This can not be duplicated any other way.
How about that!!!!
Old 28th August 2008
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Methlab View Post
Dude..no. What you said is not the same at all.

For example, with guitars. If you know how to track guitars, you never copy and paste them. You get the best performances you can, as tight as possible. I do 4 different takes on guitar and hard pan LR. It sounds 1,000 times better then copy paste because the slight variations cause a chorus effect that makes everything sound big.

This can not be duplicated any other way.
AGREED!
Old 28th August 2008
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Methlab View Post
Dude..no. What you said is not the same at all.

For example, with guitars. If you know how to track guitars, you never copy and paste them. You get the best performances you can, as tight as possible. I do 4 different takes on guitar and hard pan LR. It sounds 1,000 times better then copy paste because the slight variations cause a chorus effect that makes everything sound big.

This can not be duplicated any other way.
OR... In PT just throw a stereo slap delay on the mono track turn the mix all the way off on one side or turn the delay all the way off on one side. The idea is too keep one side untouched then on the other side delay about 20-40 ms. It will sound big and it will sound like it's coming from the side that has no delay. to intensify that turn down the volume on the delay side and it will move the sound farther to the opposing side. Or with the guitar rig deal with Waves it gives you two amps both have a delay nob. Turn the delay nob on one of the amp just a little and Bang you got a huge guitar sound also flip the phase switch on one of the sides. Works great for back vox too. Mo bigga mo betta
Old 28th August 2008
  #46
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Stacking

And this is my way for a hook.

4 takes of low note on 11 and 1 o clock

4 stack of mid at 10 and 2

4 stack of high on around 9,45 and 2.15

Main vox and double in the middle

sometimes some extra fx to jump out on about 8 and 3

I always never pan hard.

Now throw all to anx aux for parallel and put a slow comp like la2-a or hcl solution2 and pomp it quite well then add a light shelf from around 10k 2-3 db to compensate the comp efect. At last aux2 from all with a wide plate to taste.

I sometimes pan the low stacks almost mono for a more dense lead vocal.

But, man, everything that works, works. I try always to experiment when the time is right and no producers breath on my neck.
Old 28th August 2008
  #47
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do you ever notice if you layer the low notes a lot it's more likely to get muddy or do you never run into that issue? Sometimes i find to many layers can be problematic but i guess it depends on how clean and accurate the vocals are.
Old 28th August 2008
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marogru View Post
And this is my way for a hook.

4 takes of low note on 11 and 1 o clock

4 stack of mid at 10 and 2

4 stack of high on around 9,45 and 2.15

Main vox and double in the middle

sometimes some extra fx to jump out on about 8 and 3

I always never pan hard.

Now throw all to anx aux for parallel and put a slow comp like la2-a or hcl solution2 and pomp it quite well then add a light shelf from around 10k 2-3 db to compensate the comp efect. At last aux2 from all with a wide plate to taste.

I sometimes pan the low stacks almost mono for a more dense lead vocal.

But, man, everything that works, works. I try always to experiment when the time is right and no producers breath on my neck.
Why dont you ever pan hard??

Are you a noob???
Old 29th August 2008
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Methlab View Post
Dude..no. What you said is not the same at all.

For example, with guitars. If you know how to track guitars, you never copy and paste them. You get the best performances you can, as tight as possible. I do 4 different takes on guitar and hard pan LR. It sounds 1,000 times better then copy paste because the slight variations cause a chorus effect that makes everything sound big.

This can not be duplicated any other way.
who said anything about being the same? and DUDE, who said anything about GTRs?

why the fuk is everyone on this "MY WAY or NO WAY" trip??? seriously? Different engineers do different ****. what's so hard to understand?

What works for you, works for you, what works for others simply works for others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phillysoulman View Post
Why dont you ever pan hard??

Are you a noob???
Philly... lots of folks don't pan fully left or right. and that's at levels. low budget to Platinum folks. heh How bout that!
Old 29th August 2008
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillysoulman View Post
Nope..thats cheating and not the same effect.
And forget about all of those different "oclock settings" its bull**** asnd not the way its done for full effect
Its hard left and hard right
Interesting. Sam I Am posted on here not too long ago that he NEVER pans vocals hard left or right and always uses the different clock setting for harmonies. I used to pan hard but havent been lately.

Different strokes for different folks...
Old 29th August 2008
  #51
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Could the hard vs not hard pan issue be related to ITB vs. OTB methods?
Old 29th August 2008
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjasoards View Post
Interesting. Sam I Am posted on here not too long ago that he NEVER pans vocals hard left or right and always uses the different clock setting for harmonies. I used to pan hard but havent been lately.

Different strokes for different folks...
man.. I was VERY shocked a few years back to learn that from an engineer out in ATL that has worked on countless major label projects.

I started experimenting with NOT panning full L or R and never looked back.
Old 29th August 2008
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjasoards View Post
Interesting. Sam I Am posted on here not too long ago that he NEVER pans vocals hard left or right and always uses the different clock setting for harmonies. I used to pan hard but havent been lately.

Different strokes for different folks...
Yeah, and so???
Old 29th August 2008
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nukmusic View Post
man.. I was VERY shocked a few years back to learn that from an engineer out in ATL that has worked on countless major label projects.

I started experimenting with NOT panning full L or R and never looked back.
Some of you guys are so clueless
Old 29th August 2008
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjasoards View Post
Could the hard vs not hard pan issue be related to ITB vs. OTB methods?
No...
Old 29th August 2008
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nukmusic View Post
who said anything about being the same? and DUDE, who said anything about GTRs?

why the fuk is everyone on this "MY WAY or NO WAY" trip??? seriously? Different engineers do different ****. what's so hard to understand?

What works for you, works for you, what works for others simply works for others.



Philly... lots of folks don't pan fully left or right. and that's at levels. low budget to Platinum folks. heh How bout that!
Yeah..how bout that,homie
Old 29th August 2008
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillysoulman View Post
Some of you guys are so clueless
ya. I guess we are
Old 29th August 2008
  #58
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I really have appreciated the no BS advice that Philly has given to this forum.....He shoots straight from the hip everytime (Speaking of which, where's T Dizzle at?)....but I have to disagree on this one.... I believe I understand what you (PSM) are saying when you are talking about "full effect" but I also believe every song is different and should be treated as such....

I receive many poorly tracked out sessions or God forbid a mp3 (in mono) that a client wishes to record to... Most times if I try to mix vocals hard left or right it gives the song an un-natural feel....obviously because the music is mono (or lacking much stereo separation) and the vocals are jumping out in 3D... So while still trying to give the song some "stereo" appeal I have my limitations on how much I can pan....

And even well tracked out sessions or songs with great depth and field I still experiment to see what sounds best...because every song is different and a 10 o'clock - 2 o'clock might sound better on that particular song your working on for the moment....

But I will say that 8 out of 10 sessions that I look at from other engineers are panned hard right or hard left....and I think alot of them do it out of habit....Kinda like that rapper that wants to come in and stack his verse 5 times on every song because the last engineer he worked with said that's what you should do...

There's no rules to this....

Mudnoc
MySpace.com - Mudnoc - 33 - Male - ATLANTA, GEORGIA - www.myspace.com/mudnoc
Old 29th August 2008
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mudnoc View Post
I really have appreciated the no BS advice that Philly has given to this forum.....He shoots straight from the hip everytime (Speaking of which, where's T Dizzle at?)....but I have to disagree on this one.... I believe I understand what you (PSM) are saying when you are talking about "full effect" but I also believe every song is different and should be treated as such....

I receive many poorly tracked out sessions or God forbid a mp3 (in mono) that a client wishes to record to... Most times if I try to mix vocals hard left or right it gives the song an un-natural feel....obviously because the music is mono (or lacking much stereo separation) and the vocals are jumping out in 3D... So while still trying to give the song some "stereo" appeal I have my limitations on how much I can pan....

And even well tracked out sessions or songs with great depth and field I still experiment to see what sounds best...because every song is different and a 10 o'clock - 2 o'clock might sound better on that particular song your working on for the moment....

But I will say that 8 out of 10 sessions that I look at from other engineers are panned hard right or hard left....and I think alot of them do it out of habit....Kinda like that rapper that wants to come in and stack his verse 5 times on every song because the last engineer he worked with said that's what you should do...

There's no rules to this....

Mudnoc
MySpace.com - Mudnoc - 33 - Male - ATLANTA, GEORGIA - www.myspace.com/mudnoc
You're right,there are no rules...However,I have noticed that threre are tons of "urban oriented" songs which sound very MONO including some very big records.

When I refer to "hard left-hard right, I am referring to the resulting combination of stacked vocals the way that I record and mix them.
What you guys do,is what you do, and what I do sounds right to ME and the RECORD LABELS.

When singers sing together they need to sound cohesive and not have their harmony notes all over the place.
I was brought up in the school(like it or not) of real engineering in the classic sense and its application thereof.
I learned from the GREATS..and anyone has the propensity to be great just as long as they are not hard headed and open minded.

Now,I never said that I pan EVERTTHING hard l and r, I was speaking of the way that I approach background vocals.
So before you go on knocking my technique,I would advise that you re read my original post.
Oh and..have a nice day
Old 29th August 2008
  #60
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Philly... the main problem I (& so many others) see is that you seem very stubborn at times. You ya might be cool as **** in person.
If you'd step back and openingly read many of your own replies you'd see what's up. Yes, you may have learned from "GREATS" but you seem to forget(or ignore) that many others have also learned from Great engineers. Both great old school and great new school engineers. Some continue to do exactly what they learned and nothing more...some choose to take things a step further and experiment and delevop other techniques that work very well.

You share good info but so many times you really get one sided and say a lot of harsh **** when others choose to do things differently. or as you say "being hard headed" Its not that serious man. Its an internet forum and if you didnt notice...so many different people do so many different things.
AND so many earn nice money doing what they do.
ANd hell, some folks are making mo' money than many very successful engineers.
No need to FORCE your way of doing things onto people. People love SSL boards, people love NEVE boards, people love ITB or Hybrid. who's right or wrong? neither

Assumptions are very dangerous. Gearslutz has changed big time because of it. So many assume too much. They're smart and everyone else is dumb.
There was a time when folks would share info/tips and at the same time agree to disagree without trying to insult other folks. I guess that's just too hard to do now-a-days??? or maybe folks just type without thinking about how others will receive that message. Ya gotta remember we all are limited in using forums. There's only so much info you can type without making replies extremely long. So many details get left out.

In the end, there are better ways of expression.

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