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how to do YOU become a better producer/engineer/composer etc Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 9th August 2008
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irthwirm View Post
Probably the worst advise I've ever heardtutt

limitations are bull****. If you think your limited then your are. If you "suck" at something work on it because the more you learn the better and more valuable you become.
look, being ambitious and watching oprah talk about "the secret" is cool and i'm not saying don't try but...

don't invest your precious time and energy in trying to become something you'll never be.

if you're REALLY serious about your talents, you should be serious about your limitations as well, the two go hand in hand.
Old 9th August 2008
  #32
Quote:
Originally Posted by beat you down View Post
accept your limitations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by irthwirm View Post
Probably the worst advise I've ever heardtutt

limitations are bull****. If you think your limited then your are. If you "suck" at something work on it because the more you learn the better and more valuable you become.
I'm with BYD: accept your limitations. That doesn't mean you shouldn't stop trying to improve yourself to remove those limitations (and create new onesheh). But not accepting your limitations in the present is going to hurt you in the future.

Let's suppose a basement beatmaker/emcee records a KILLER record. The thing is smoking; instant classic. Let's also suppose that this guy can't mix to save his life. If he opts to ignore that limitation and mix the thing himself, he's gonna end up not realizing his full potential as a beatmaker/emcee.

Granted, if he's interested in the mixing process, there's nothing wrong with trying to mix his own record. He just shouldn't release it; he'd be better served watching/hearing a professional mix it. It'll sound better, and he'll come away with a better understanding of the process. He'll always have the tracks he made to practice on, and his record will sound great.

I can mix my ass off; I can also produce. I'm a solid tracking engineer, and a pretty damn good drummer. However, I'm not very good at making beats, and I certainly can't rap, so if I wanted to do a Benny Grotto Solo Rap/R&B Album all on my own, it would absolutely suck. If I ever decide to do a Benny Grotto Solo Rap/R&B Album (pray to god that never happens!!heh), I'll accept those limitations and hire the appropriate parties so that I can concentrate on doing what I do and put my best foot forward.

To get back to the OP: practice makes perfect. Know your limitations, and work with people better than you. Don't plan on making a living, just keep working, whether you're getting paid or not. And have fun.
Old 9th August 2008
  #33
Gear Head
 

Considering the tremendous ego of today's youth, I'd say "accept your limitations" just might be the best advice in this thread thumbsup.

For me, I feel the best way to improve is to constantly try new things with each track you make. If you go through a slump, find people to collaborate with.
Old 9th August 2008
  #34
Lives for gear
 
PettyCash's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by St. Kelly View Post
All these people saying you gave bad advice, probably suck at everything and just don't want to believe it will be like that forever.

I recognize that you gave very solid advice.


ACCEPT YOUR LIMITATIONS. SHINE WHERE YOU HAVE NO BOUNDARIES!
Thats the "dumbest" thing I ever heard. For a lot of people they had to learn, practice and work hard on perfecting what they do in order to get as far as they got. Not every child comes out the womb knowing how to make hit music. We don't have as many prodigy children out there as you think. Even some of them had to be encouraged at a young age into playing music before they even knew they had a natural talent. So if everyone was to have the same mentality that you and the other dude has, I dont think music would have come as far as it has because we would be missing a lot of major contributors. In that case, I dont even know what you or him are doing making music yourselves.... in regards to your opinion you should have given up long time ago.

Life is ALL about over coming your obstacles. Thats how we become better, stronger people. People go to the damn gym so they can work their way up to curling that 50 pound dumbell. Most people who can curl something that heavy had to work their way up to it and push the LIMITATIONS of their body in order to make it happen. If we all had your mentality, no one would progress at anything in life and we would have a country full of whimpy under-achievers. Guys who think the way you do possess a very whimpish attitude, and will spend life getting bullied and bossed around by people who want and get more. To limit yourself at something is to tell yourself you either dont deserve it or you aren't good enough for it. Their are a lot of beautiful, dateless women out there right now because of guys who think like yourself lol.

As even further proof, many celebrities, whether they be actors, musicians, athletes, all had some obstacles they had to overcome to achieve their goals. Through not limiting themselves they discovered their true talents and purpose in life. You set your own limitations my brotha.

Now lets just be straight up, the advice given was an ignorant, blank statement and didn't really say anything useful at all. Telling people that they should know when to quit at something, or concentrate on what they know they are better at, would have been more insightful.
Old 9th August 2008
  #35
Lives for gear
 
PettyCash's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by deafperception View Post
Considering the tremendous ego of today's youth, I'd say "accept your limitations" just might be the best advice in this thread thumbsup.
It's not about accepting your limitations, its about learning what your limitations are and knowing what you can't and cannot change about them in your current situation.

Something like this reminds me of a message I learnt off of a scroll I had growing up.

"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,

Courage to change the things I can

And the wisdom to know the difference."

IMO, that was a very important message for me, and anyone by that matter to have learnt at a younger age. There are things you cannot change about yourself, some obvious, some not as obvious; but the key is in knowing how to tell the difference between the two.

Hence,
Quote:
Telling people that they should know when to quit at something, or concentrate on what they know they are better at, would have been more insightful.
...would have been a more insightful statement than "accept your limitations". I understand you explained yourself in more detail after being grilled, but you should be explaining yourself fully from your first post, as not to mislead other people. Thats why forums like these can be a dangerous place for people at times. So much misinformation going around, someone less knowledgable can easily get lost if they can't discern good advice, from true but somewhat misleading advice. To those giving advice, you have to choose your statements more carefully.
Old 9th August 2008
  #36
Lives for gear
 

i should've said "know" instead of "accept" i guess, but wow, the idea of being limited, which we all are as humans, seems to stir up quite some emotions.heh

this might help:
Narcissistic personality disorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Old 9th August 2008
  #37
Lives for gear
 
PettyCash's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by beat you down View Post
i should've said "know" instead of "accept" i guess, but wow, the idea of being limited, which we all are as humans, seems to stir up quite some emotions.heh

this might help:
Narcissistic personality disorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
lol, trying to be funny, Nice. I guess it all depends on what you are talking about.

Walking on water.... I dont think much people would dissagree with you on that one accept for the Mind Freak.

Getting better at making hip hop... Not that its the easiest thing in the world to do, but I believe anyone with an ear and skill for composing can get over the hump of learning how over time.

See, now the second scenerio is where you run into problems. With your blank statement, its easy to assume that you are trying to tell people that if they cant do something today, like for example... program a decent hi hat loop, then they should stop trying all together, accept it and throw in the towel, never to try again.... If you took the effort to explain your statements thoroughly, no one would have had much to say but to agree with you, as I do.

A smart guy like yourself should know better than to be surprised at the outcome you stirred up.
Old 9th August 2008
  #38
Quote:
Originally Posted by PettyCash View Post
Thats the "dumbest" thing I ever heard. For a lot of people they had to learn, practice and work hard on perfecting what they do in order to get as far as they got. Not every child comes out the womb knowing how to make hit music. We don't have as many prodigy children out there as you think. Even some of them had to be encouraged at a young age into playing music before they even knew they had a natural talent. So if everyone was to have the same mentality that you and the other dude has, I dont think music would have come as far as it has because we would be missing a lot of major contributors. In that case, I dont even know what you or him are doing making music yourselves.... in regards to your opinion you should have given up long time ago.

Life is ALL about over coming your obstacles. Thats how we become better, stronger people. People go to the damn gym so they can work their way up to curling that 50 pound dumbell. Most people who can curl something that heavy had to work their way up to it and push the LIMITATIONS of their body in order to make it happen. If we all had your mentality, no one would progress at anything in life and we would have a country full of whimpy under-achievers. Guys who think the way you do possess a very whimpish attitude, and will spend life getting bullied and bossed around by people who want and get more. To limit yourself at something is to tell yourself you either dont deserve it or you aren't good enough for it. Their are a lot of beautiful, dateless women out there right now because of guys who think like yourself lol.

As even further proof, many celebrities, whether they be actors, musicians, athletes, all had some obstacles they had to overcome to achieve their goals. Through not limiting themselves they discovered their true talents and purpose in life. You set your own limitations my brotha.

Now lets just be straight up, the advice given was an ignorant, blank statement and didn't really say anything useful at all. Telling people that they should know when to quit at something, or concentrate on what they know they are better at, would have been more insightful.
BYD, and my self more-so, obviously didn't explain properly.

I don't mean don't try to train so you can lift the 50lber, I mean don't try to do that when you have no arms...

As beatsyoudown said, it should've been said to "know" your limitations, not "accept" them.. too easily misintepreted.

brgrotto made a better example of what we were talking about, though a little less extreme.

Don't try to be the next Robin Thicke if the voice god gave you is extremely deep and gruff.. roll with that, and do what Robin Thicke couldn't.

I should've quit a long time ago? Nah, I might change my direction, but I enjoy what I do too much to not keep pushin forward... according to your advice, I can't be bad at everything! Some people spend their days going to work, then playing Xbox. That will never be me. To know my limitations, I have to try a lot of things.. I'm not going to assume I can't do something, unless, like I said, I have no arms.
Old 9th August 2008
  #39
Lives for gear
 
47radAR's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by beat you down View Post
i should've said "know" instead of "accept" i guess, but wow, the idea of being limited, which we all are as humans, seems to stir up quite some emotions.heh

this might help:
Narcissistic personality disorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
lol...right man.

I think some people take the whole "I can overcome anything" idea a bit too extream. It really is a good attitude to have in some cases but you really should learn when to shut it the hell off as it can become a serious hinderance to your overall progress.

I can't play the guitar but I'd like to think that I could learn how. However, considering where I am now with my overall skill level - ALMOST "there", how much time should I devote to starting something from scratch vs. time spent improving what I can already do?
Old 9th August 2008
  #40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trell Blaze View Post
lol...right man.

I think some people take the whole "I can overcome anything" idea a bit too extream. It really is a good attitude to have in some cases but you really should learn when to shut it the hell off as it can become a serious hinderance to your overall progress.

I can't play the guitar but I'd like to think that I could learn how. However, considering where I am now with my overall skill level - ALMOST "there", how much time should I devote to starting something from scratch vs. time spent improving what I can already do?
Thing is, I believe you can do almost anything you want to...

Problem is, You can can only choose a few things.. NOT ALL OF THEM!

So do you want to play the guitar really well, or do you want to train for the Olympics?

That's where accept your limitations comes in...

Oh, and another great example for the "if you have no arms" theory.

Trell, if you want to, I don't think any of us doubt you can become a decent guitar player... it's just how much are you willing to devote, right? (which is taking away from other things you like pursuing with that time)
Old 9th August 2008
  #41
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47radAR's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by St. Kelly View Post
Thing is, I believe you can do almost anything you want to...

Problem is, You can can only choose a few things.. NOT ALL OF THEM!

So do you want to play the guitar really well, or do you want to train for the Olympics?

That's where accept your limitations comes in...

Oh, and another great example for the "if you have no arms" theory.

Trell, if you want to, I don't think any of us doubt you can become a decent guitar player... it's just how much are you willing to devote, right? (which is taking away from other things you like pursuing with that time)
lol...actually my question was rhetorical but what you just said was pretty much the point I was trying to get across...
Old 9th August 2008
  #42
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tonymission's Avatar
 

listen --

you CAN *become* a musician

i was never the guy ANYONE would have voted in high school to be the big producer, doin big things and all that ****.

i was the stoner / skater / quarterback dude who fiddled out around with Logic 3 back in the day .... my friends didnt even sugar coat it ... "you suck tony"

couldnt play ****, couldnt get a chair in the band, going sing for a lick... couldnt hit three keys in a row without dissonance ...

you CAN develop NATURAL feel...

nowadays i can lay down a sample in a strange key and within a minute figure out the scale and what keys will best accompany it... now i can tune kick drums, now i can pickup a bass and track it in live on the fly and change up as the song goes.. one take.

i wasnt/am not natural at all.

but i think the results now speak for themselves.

i was just too stupid to know i sucked so i never quit ... finally i figured it out.
Old 9th August 2008
  #43
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonymission View Post
i was just too stupid to know i sucked so i never quit ... finally i figured it out.
This is half the secret to many rappers swagger.. they're so dumb, they really believe they're the ****, which in turn allows them to act like the ****, which in turn leads other people as dumb as them to think they are in fact the ****.. pretty soon, they're the ****!

what a wonderful world
Old 9th August 2008
  #44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trell Blaze View Post
lol...actually my question was rhetorical but what you just said was pretty much the point I was trying to get across...
lol, sorry, that wasn't really directed at you.. "don't worry trell, you can do it!!!" haha.. i was just using you as an example for others reading the thread. but as usual, i write everything wrong.. terrible articulation, and not re-reading before posting..heh. glad there was no harm done this time tho
Old 9th August 2008
  #45
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tonymission's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by St. Kelly View Post
This is half the secret to many rappers swagger.. they're so dumb, they really believe they're the ****, which in turn allows them to act like the ****, which in turn leads other people as dumb as them to think they are in fact the ****.. pretty soon, they're the ****!

what a wonderful world
sounds familiar to me

and my um, narcissistic behavior ;-)
Old 10th August 2008
  #46
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

I'd say always look for opportunities to be the least talented person in the room. That way your skills will get pushed far beyond your concepts about what you can or can't do.
Old 10th August 2008
  #47
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Unclenny's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
I'd say always look for opportunities to be the least talented person in the room. That way your skills will get pushed far beyond your concepts about what you can or can't do.
Advise worth reading again.
Old 10th August 2008
  #48
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nukmusic's Avatar
 

Untitled Document
Old 10th August 2008
  #49
Gear Nut
 
lazzaro's Avatar
 

Yes ... but in addition ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
I'd say always look for opportunities to be the least talented person in the room. That way your skills will get pushed far beyond your concepts about what you can or can't do.
I agree. But in addition ...

It's equally important to look for opportunities to be the most
experienced
person in the room. This will teach you (1) how to be a
leader, (2) how to mentor, and (3) how to handle the responsibility
of knowing that if a mistake gets by you, chances are no one else
will catch it until its too late, and when that mistake comes to light
it will be your fault (because you were the most experienced person
in the room). There's only so much you can learn about being the
"person in charge" by sitting back and watching an old-hand run the show.
Old 10th August 2008
  #50
Quote:
Originally Posted by nukmusic View Post
Wow, cool read!

Not sure I see all it's relevance, but I'm glad you posted it..
Old 10th August 2008
  #51
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by St. Kelly View Post
Not sure I see all it's relevance,..
It's hard to know where you're going when you don't know where you've been!
Old 10th August 2008
  #52
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PettyCash View Post
...A smart guy like yourself should know better than to be surprised at the outcome you stirred up.
heh
i won't post with people waiting, pointing at their watch telling me to hurry up #@$#@#$% next time.
Old 10th August 2008
  #53
Quote:
Originally Posted by beat you down View Post
heh
i won't post with people waiting, pointing at their watch telling me to hurry up #@$#@#$% next time.
oh ya, blame it on the client.... :p
Old 11th August 2008
  #54
Gear Addict
 

Whenever I am working on a track I always ask myself: "Is this ready for *insert big name artist here* ?" ... Sure makes all the "it's good enough" vanish as soon as they show up! heh
Old 16th August 2008
  #55
Gear Addict
 
E-Irizarry's Avatar
I went through my bad days in producing abhorrent tracks. The best of the best does while experimenting in producing new beats/tracks/songs.

It's all a growin' experience.

Look at some of the top R&B and/or Rap and/or Hip-Hop producers that ever touched soft and hard equipment. They produced doo-doo-crap tracks before, but they keep those hidden away in the vaults of their basement. But that's what makes an artist an artist and likewise, a producer a producer et al.
Old 19th August 2008
  #56
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irthwirm's Avatar
 

Petty cash pretty much nailed it. Of course if you know nothing about engineering but attempt anyway and completely ruin the album cause of your "limitations" on the craft then duh!!! Thats not even on the same discussion. That's just called being ****ing ********heh. Accepting and knowing are completely 2 different things. Then knowing your limitations i Do agree with.

As for learning guitar it can only make you a better producer it will give you other ideas learn different scales etc that you didn't have before. Maybe you can't play well but you can get an idea down and just pay a pro or a friend to do it "cleanly" Just depends on where you want to set your glass ceiling.... if you have one at all (cheesy i know)
Old 19th August 2008
  #57
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phillysoulman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by E-Irizarry View Post
I went through my bad days in producing abhorrent tracks. The best of the best does while experimenting in producing new beats/tracks/songs.

It's all a growin' experience.

Look at some of the top R&B and/or Rap and/or Hip-Hop producers that ever touched soft and hard equipment. They produced doo-doo-crap tracks before, but they keep those hidden away in the vaults of their basement. But that's what makes an artist an artist and likewise, a producer a producer et al.
Hey E..whats the studio scene like down there??
Old 19th August 2008
  #58
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Keyflo's Avatar
 

Composing---its liek studying for a final, practice whut u dont know, stop listening to radio and comparing your skills to big time producers, they were in your position ounce in their lives...Also while practicing whut you dont know, incoperate what u do know, sorta like a equation..

I suck at engineering but i try to practice techniques form people like Philly soulman, Sirocco, Tony Belmont, Pettycash and so on, and try to create my methods.....

As far as production, its all about creativety, you cant practice creativety, but you know how to be creative, so your are one steap ahead...Just try something you dont ordinarly do...Like if u never put a Distortion Plugin on a piano try it, you never know ..... Also just try to listen to different music, besides the genre you make your tracks in...for instance I listen to Final Fantasy Piano Collections and OST's becase im into piano and the melodies in that are sick....I can fall asleep to that music...
Old 19th August 2008
  #59
Here for the gear
 
Krunchie's Avatar
 

One of the best ways to improve I've found, is to find someone better than you, and figure out a way watch them work... It works wonders...
Old 20th August 2008
  #60
Things "I" do:

-Work closely with the artist while your in the studio with them. Ex: throw out lil suggestions on how YOU feel they should be over the track. Guide them through the song.

-when creating the track, dont "junk" it up. Dont try to crowd up the beat with a bunch of instruments and complex things and trying to be "da man". i find the biggest hits are the ones that are simple. after all, its the "artist" who the customer is buying, not just your track. I wish it was that simple to put out a cd with just my keyboard on the cover of it and it sell 3million records,lol!

-keep your workflow as simple as possible. a hectic workflow creates a lack of concentration.
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