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Guitars in Hip Hop music
Old 8th August 2008
  #31
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H-Rezz's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Lewis View Post
2)
Acoustic guitars, unless you are going for that specific pickup sound should always be recorded with a microphone and not DI. DI acoustics sound like crap generally.

-Ken Lewis
Amen, i hear so many hip hop and rnb tracks where the acoustic is D.I.'ed and as a guitar player it makes me kringe .......


Ken or Philly anyone of you had success with guitar synths ? I can play keys decently but my main instrument is the axe, i've been thinking of investing in some sort of system but find the tracking a bit strange ......
Old 8th August 2008
  #32
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Ken Lewis's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by H-Rezz View Post
Amen, i hear so many hip hop and rnb tracks where the acoustic is D.I.'ed and as a guitar player it makes me kringe .......


Ken or Philly anyone of you had success with guitar synths ? I can play keys decently but my main instrument is the axe, i've been thinking of investing in some sort of system but find the tracking a bit strange ......
man, i've been thinkin bout getting a MID guitar for the LONGEST time, but still havent done it. I dont know, i think i would create in different ways playing keys from guitar. You just phrase melodies and chords differently on guitar than you do on a keyboard. but, so far, havent done it.

do you know what the best current systems ar and how much they go for?
Old 8th August 2008
  #33
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H-Rezz's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Lewis View Post
man, i've been thinkin bout getting a MID guitar for the LONGEST time, but still havent done it. I dont know, i think i would create in different ways playing keys from guitar. You just phrase melodies and chords differently on guitar than you do on a keyboard. but, so far, havent done it.

do you know what the best current systems ar and how much they go for?
Not sure i'll do a bit of research and get back to you with my findings Ken, but i have played with a few Roland systems in the past and wasn't blown away with the responsiveness on my technique, i have been playing for about 27 years , both Jazz and Rock so my skills on the keys just simply cann't compete and like you i think the headspace of playing synth sounds on the guitar would be such a creative release starting from the voicings to the speed i can think of something and put it down, to the types of ideas i can formulate, but none of that will be fun or intuitive if the tracking is sloppy or drags in it's timing ......
Old 8th August 2008
  #34
Gear Maniac
 

Y'all seen the moog guitar yet... imagine playing in monophonic mode.
Old 8th August 2008
  #35
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Keyflo's Avatar
 

I need great guitars in hiphop but I have trouble with compression and eq to nake it sound warm and beautiful
Old 8th August 2008
  #36
one of the greatest guitars i heard in a rap song was in 2nd II none's "don't u hide it" produced by DJ Quik. These guitars are really awesome, but quik uses them quite a lot and they sound just wonderful. its not that much about getting the sound though, its how you play the guitar. just need a strat and some chorus, flanger and wha wha on it.
Old 8th August 2008
  #37
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ryst's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyflo View Post
I need great guitars in hiphop but I have trouble with compression and eq to nake it sound warm and beautiful
It needs to sound warm and beautiful before it's recorded.
Old 8th August 2008
  #38
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TonyBelmont's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryst View Post
It needs to sound warm and beautiful before it's recorded.
Agreed.
Old 8th August 2008
  #39
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by phillysoulman View Post
Hi AP,

My original instrument of choice was/is the guitar and as a result,I have played on virtually thousands of recording sessions including all of the classic Philly stuff.
Now back then,I usually played a '71 Les Paul and for the "sitar stuff"it was a Coral electric sitar.

Later on on a lot of the Teddy Pendergrass sessions Lou Rawls,Jones Girls etc, I sometimes played an Ibanez Bob Weir model axe.
Now it appears to me that on most of the hip hop records where the axe isnt sampled, its usually some version of a Fender Stratocaster.
However,most of what I hear is usually sequenced from some software application and being a REAL guitar player, I can differentiate between what is real and what is not.

I also hear some various aproximations of a 12 string acoustic although most arent very good.
You asked, and I responded with what I know from a pro point of view.
Phillysoulman, would that be you on sitar with The Stylistics & Delfonics ?
Old 8th August 2008
  #40
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phillysoulman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by H-Rezz View Post
Amen, i hear so many hip hop and rnb tracks where the acoustic is D.I.'ed and as a guitar player it makes me kringe .......


Ken or Philly anyone of you had success with guitar synths ? I can play keys decently but my main instrument is the axe, i've been thinking of investing in some sort of system but find the tracking a bit strange ......
Not a guitar synth per se,but there is a great (imo) program called "Acoustic Legends" which is accessed thru Kontakt which has an abundance of wonderful sampled guitars at your disposal.
Also there is Virtual Guitarist from Steinberg.
I have both of them and as a guitarist, I can highly recommend both.
Old 8th August 2008
  #41
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phillysoulman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by riteup3 View Post
Phillysoulman, would that be you on sitar with The Stylistics & Delfonics ?
Yes indeed.
Its a burgundy colored Coral electric sitar played thru a Kustom amp, the one with the padded blue sparkles(smile)

FYI..there is a very recent cd on Shanachie Records called "The 3 Tenors Of Soul" which I produced.
The group is comprised of Russell Thompkins Jr lead from the Stylistics, Ted Mills,of Blue Magic and William "Poogie" Hart of the Delfonics.
Old 8th August 2008
  #42
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by phillysoulman
Hi AP,

My original instrument of choice was/is the guitar and as a result,I have played on virtually thousands of recording sessions including all of the classic Philly stuff.
Now back then,I usually played a '71 Les Paul and for the "sitar stuff"it was a Coral electric sitar.

Later on on a lot of the Teddy Pendergrass sessions Lou Rawls,Jones Girls etc, I sometimes played an Ibanez Bob Weir model axe.
Now it appears to me that on most of the hip hop records where the axe isnt sampled, its usually some version of a Fender Stratocaster.
However,most of what I hear is usually sequenced from some software application and being a REAL guitar player, I can differentiate between what is real and what is not.

I also hear some various aproximations of a 12 string acoustic although most arent very good.
You asked, and I responded with what I know from a pro point of view.
Philly, first off much respect!!
Is that you on the O'Jays "For the Love of Money" or "Give the People What They Want" ? Those guitars are so nasty!
Old 8th August 2008
  #43
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phillysoulman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryst View Post
It needs to sound warm and beautiful before it's recorded.
thumbsupthumbsup
Old 8th August 2008
  #44
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phillysoulman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mindseye View Post
Philly, first off much respect!!
Is that you on the O'Jays "For the Love of Money" or "Give the People What They Want" ? Those guitars are so nasty!
Yessiree!!
I played on ALL of the Philly records of that time.

The intro figure on For The Love Of Money was actually Anthony Jackson playing an Epiphone 335 style bass played thru a Maestro phaser, the one with the three collored plastic buttons.
I played two guitar parts..the wah wah part and the fuzz bass accents along with the second bass played by Ronnie Baker.
On Give the people and most others,I was the main axeman along with Norman Harris (RIP)
Old 8th August 2008
  #45
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Yessiree!!
I played on ALL of the Philly records of that time.

The intro figure on For The Love Of Money was actually Anthony Jackson playing an Epiphone 335 style bass played thru a Maestro phaser, the one with the three collored plastic buttons.
I played two guitar parts..the wah wah part and the fuzz bass accents along with the second bass played by Ronnie Baker.
On Give the people and most others,I was the main axeman along with Norman Harris (RIP)
Wow...Now thats the bizness!! Those Philly records from that era are some of the most soulful, beautiful records in R&B history.
Old 8th August 2008
  #46
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Jermaine's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cal1 View Post
one of the greatest guitars i heard in a rap song was in 2nd II none's "don't u hide it" produced by DJ Quik. These guitars are really awesome, but quik uses them quite a lot and they sound just wonderful. its not that much about getting the sound though, its how you play the guitar. just need a strat and some chorus, flanger and wha wha on it.
yes, the arrangement of the guitars is amazing. quik know to arrange guitar and most important he knows great player like rob bacon.
Old 8th August 2008
  #47
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I like using my epiphone valve junior, which is a small practice amp. You can get a nice solid tone out of it that records well, sits nice in the mix, and it can be captured at a relatively low volume. After all it is a pretty small amp...

Its great, especially since I paid less than 200 bucks for it.



Its also variable distortion, but there is only a volume knob, so the louder you turn it, the more distorted it gets.

As far as the guitar, I use either a tele, strat, or les paul.

And when I am REALLY lazy or tired I just DI and use Native Instruments Guitar Rig.
Old 8th August 2008
  #48
Gear Maniac
 

Those Valve Juniors look prett sweet.

I been thinking bout getting the combo, but didn't notice if it had an external speaker out so I could 1x12 or 1x10 cab with it
Old 8th August 2008
  #49
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TonyBelmont's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by phillysoulman View Post
Yessiree!!
I played on ALL of the Philly records of that time.
Hey Philly,

Was there a particular amp that you used in the 70's?

What was the guitar/ effects/ amp on Something for Nothing? Do you recall if it was mic'ed or direct?

Those guitars sounded fabulous.

Thanks in advance.
Old 8th August 2008
  #50
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brian_delizza's Avatar
 

Oh indeed it does...

Old 8th August 2008
  #51
Deleted #29527
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillysoulman View Post
Yessiree!!
I played on ALL of the Philly records of that time.

The intro figure on For The Love Of Money was actually Anthony Jackson playing an Epiphone 335 style bass played thru a Maestro phaser, the one with the three collored plastic buttons.
I played two guitar parts..the wah wah part and the fuzz bass accents along with the second bass played by Ronnie Baker.
On Give the people and most others,I was the main axeman along with Norman Harris (RIP)
That´s impressive! Hats off to you ... I probably own a lot of the records you played on.
Old 8th August 2008
  #52
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phillysoulman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mindseye View Post
Wow...Now thats the bizness!! Those Philly records from that era are some of the most soulful, beautiful records in R&B history.
Thanks bro, the soul bug was mos def bitin us.
Wish ya coulda been there..it was awesome.....
Old 9th August 2008
  #53
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phillysoulman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyBelmont View Post
Hey Philly,

Was there a particular amp that you used in the 70's?

What was the guitar/ effects/ amp on Something for Nothing? Do you recall if it was mic'ed or direct?

Those guitars sounded fabulous.

Thanks in advance.
Hey Tony,

For the most part,it was a Fender Twin with JBL speakers and I was the "pedal guy".
I had every Electro Harmonix pedal, Boss MXR phase 90, the first Mu-Tron Bi Phase,Vox Tone Bender, fender Fuzz Wah, Cry Baby, I had so much stuff that Id be trippin over wires...I also had and still have a fifties era original tweed Fender Vibrolux.

My twin was miked with a 57 and taken direct as well.
The sitar was played thru a Kustom amp with the blue sparkles.

Joe Tarsia of Sigma sound studios had a direct box which he made that we allused and in fact,its being manufacctured again.

Man, you just cant beat 2 guitars,bass,drums,2 electric keys,live grand,percussion,vibes recorded in a great room like Sigma studio 1.
I
We were all blessed by the best.
Old 9th August 2008
  #54
Moderator
 
TonyBelmont's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by phillysoulman View Post
Hey Tony,

For the most part,it was a Fender Twin with JBL speakers and I was the "pedal guy".
I had every Electro Harmonix pedal, Boss MXR phase 90, the first Mu-Tron Bi Phase,Vox Tone Bender, fender Fuzz Wah, Cry Baby, I had so much stuff that Id be trippin over wires...I also had and still have a fifties era original tweed Fender Vibrolux.

My twin was miked with a 57 and taken direct as well.
The sitar was played thru a Kustom amp with the blue sparkles.

Joe Tarsia of Sigma sound studios had a direct box which he made that we allused and in fact,its being manufacctured again.

Man, you just cant beat 2 guitars,bass,drums,2 electric keys,live grand,percussion,vibes recorded in a great room like Sigma studio 1.
I
We were all blessed by the best.
Wow, a Fender Twin is LOUD. You guys weren't ****ing around. heh

Thanks again.
Old 9th August 2008
  #55
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phillysoulman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyBelmont View Post
Wow, a Fender Twin is LOUD. You guys weren't ****ing around. heh

Thanks again.
Sometimes the engineer would say for me to turn it down(lol)
After all,the grooves were so mean that I just couldnt help it, and with all those pedals....
It did ligten up though when I was playing chinks(backbeats)
I have some multitracks which were transferred to Protools which Im about to do some remixes on and when I isolate those tracks, you wouldnt believe all of the room spill, but that in itself was part of the sound of those records.

It was really nothing fancy,per se.
The board was an Electrodyne 24 in 8 bus.
No fancy pres,minimal eq, mostly from outboard like some APIs,Orban parametrics, some graphics here and there...we were the first studio to have automation(Allison Memories Little Helper, Lexicon Prime Time,Dimension D,AKG,bx 10 1nd bx 20,4 EMT playes and a fabulous live echo chamber 40 feet long,fifteen feet high, and about six feet wide with an Altec A7 on one end and an RCA 77 dx on the othere way up in the air.

Great stuff.
Old 9th August 2008
  #56
Here for the gear
 

i get tonez like this using my JM Strat & a few pedals recording DI:

YouTube - It's Like That - Dr. Dre (Prophet) + Lyrics / DETOX
Old 9th August 2008
  #57
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Black Seal's Avatar
 

Try something different...

On one occasion I recorded my Les Paul through an AT 4060, not direct, but mic'd!!

It worked for the song, and it was a pretty cool result!
Old 9th August 2008
  #58
Here for the gear
 

Carr Amplifiers - Mercury

^^ sounds good
Old 11th August 2008
  #59
Gear Addict
 
Jermaine's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTuned View Post
wow, i really love the clean sound of the mercury 1x12, especially combined with a strat! great sound!
Old 11th August 2008
  #60
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by phillysoulman View Post
Yes indeed.
Its a burgundy colored Coral electric sitar played thru a Kustom amp, the one with the padded blue sparkles(smile)

FYI..there is a very recent cd on Shanachie Records called "The 3 Tenors Of Soul" which I produced.
The group is comprised of Russell Thompkins Jr lead from the Stylistics, Ted Mills,of Blue Magic and William "Poogie" Hart of the Delfonics.
thumbsupthumbsupthumbsup

Will check out the 3 Tenors album.
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