Down here in Atlanta a lot of major label artists work with a lot of different studios with a lot of different producers. How do they keep track of the engineers that track the sessions for credits on the record? or do they? And as a hired engineer, how do you make sure that you get your engineering (tracking) credits before the record comes out?

Hip hop artists, producers, management, and labels are notorious for failing to credit engineers...don't even get me started.

Get worksheets made up, have the "artists" sign them in front of a notary and turn it into the label.
Dont trust anyone.

Well, you and i probably have similar stories although I would assume you have more experience with it than me. So I would actually like to get you "started"heh to keep me aware and anyone else who's reading that could learn from this. What have you gone through? And how do you protect yourself now? Or can you?

I would appreciate any and all insight.

I was wondering the same thing Ryst. I've been recording quite a few projects where I definitely want to make sure I show up in the credits... seems kind of like an afterthought though.

Sign in front of notary? Errr... unless we got someone working at the studio(s) who can do it, I dont see that as being a very viable option in most situations.

Unless it's a really high-profile hip hop record, or a credit beyond tracking vocals, I don't even bother. But I haven't had any high-profile hip hop gigs in a while...I guess I already sorta blew my previous chances.

Luckily, I accumulate most of my credits in other genres. That said, when another big hip hop engineering gig rears its ugly head, I have little hope at a decent credit UNLESS there's a label directly involved (there often isn't). If there IS a respectable label involved, I'll bust balls, but in my experience, it's often hopeless. It's hard enough just getting paid in a reasonable amount of time (this is true of almost ANY genre though)...

Well, I do that except for the notary part. Getting them to come to a studio when the session is over at 4am might be a difficult thing to do.

The projects I have been working on lately are major label records but first full length records for these artists.

I haven't read the credits to any records lately. When a hip hop record does come out, who is usually credited as the tracking engineer? The guy who did the most of it? The guy with the best knee pads? Who?

The only things I've seen work consistently are having a good manager for yourself and getting in good with management/production coordinator of the artist or producer. But in defense of the powers that be, it can be hard alot of times keeping track of diff versions songs and where they were recorded and who did what.

Im not saying that this is always the case, but see it happen all the time.


Also, it seems like noone cares about studio or engineering credit except for studio owner/managers and engineers. What a shame.



Lavish

The thing is, the artist/label/whoever is under no legal obligation to include you on the liner notes or in the credits in any way. I've been burned by everyone from forgetful producers, to A&R bozos (this one really frosts my cookies), to the band members' mothers mentioned in the "thank you" section. If there's not room for your name, and your credit is a low priority for whoever is in charge of putting the album artwork together (which, typically speaking, it is), you're outta there. Sorry. Come again next time.

Just remember who you worked with and tell people when they ask you; nobody's reading engineering credits anyway, except other engineers. I highly doubt a single one of your clients could name a single recording engineer (mix engineers may be a different story) on their favorite record. Just maintain your own credits list on your Myspace, homepage, studio's page, Gearslutz (heh), whatever.

The guy with the best manager.heh

Or the guy with the most clout (he often has the best manager, too...).

Credits like that won't do *much* for your business; like you said, people don't read em. Putting those credits on YOUR resume, however, can help a lot.

I have a recent credit and 3 tracking engineers including me are credited. 1 guy did string recording. one guy tracked the music. one guy tracked the vox. I think it mostly depends on whoever is handling the credits.


my 2 cents

Exactly.

I hope you weren't "the guy with the best kneepads"...

Denny, from the times we have spoken on the phone, I am under the impression that you are in a much more organized situation than me. So first, congrats on the credit! I guess it's rare around here....lol

Secondly, I guess I have 2 options.....
A: get away from tracking. I have been wanting to concentrate completely on mixing and producing but it's a slow process to get your name out there.

B: Look up Option A.

Getting into mixing exclusively is gonna take a LOT of networking, a LOT of chops, and a somewhat shred sense of business. In other words, you gotta EARN it. That means tracking ho-hum gigs till you get lucky enough to mix a song. Then mix a few more songs till you get lucky enough to mix a hit. Hopefully in the meantime you'll get your chops and your reputation up to the point of keeping busy with non-commercial work.

ROFL. No, no kneepads needed. 2 attractive women do handle my credits though.




Lavish

That's what I have been working on for a bit now. And I will continue to do so until I get where I want to get.

I am inclined to agree with you, but I still was left off some records. Make urself known man. The artists and producers count but the paper pushers are what really count in this situation. Of all the guys getting big tracking and mixing credits, not many are without representation. At least it looks that way to me.

Holla Anytime



Lavish

Get in your car, drive over to a notary publics office)usualy in real estate offices) and have your artist sign on the dotted line
Its easy

You've done this for an engineering gig??

yep. you kinda expect it after going through the same **** over and over.

I'm management-less... And most are good about getting my credit.

In my favor I do mainly ALL major label work, and I have PO#'s and a paper trail of dates/titles/projects that I have engineered and mixed... Even then somtimes it is absent from the final credits... Sometimes there are 3,4 or even 5 engineers, and they'll credit the "main guy" or whomever did most of the project.

at 2 AM at the end of a session..."excuse, me, Jay Z...would you mind hopping in my Toyota to take a spin over to the notary?"


heh right


not realistic man, sorry. anyone who is gonna hop in my car and take a ride to the notary after the session probably isn't a credit i'm too worried about anyway.


i have a psuedo manager handle my credits and getting me paid, works better than nothing at all. but even then its more about your relationship to the artist and/or label, the A&R, whoever is handling the credits. whether they know you or not and whether or not you did a good job on their record factors in. but there's a million different ways and reasons to have your name left out of the credits, i've been screwed on some big records. but i've also had people really hook me up on credits as well, so its a double edged sword i guess. just network, be friendly to everyone, introduce yourself to people, etc.


Tthis kinda makes me think even more about an engineering union. we're really hurting as far as getting credit for work, and getting paid for work done, etc. we need to organize!

same with using different studios. most of the time only one studio gets credit. Sometimes people get credit listings for work they didnt do...LOL

You need to be in touch with the A&R or your credits are going to go down the tube. The artists manager comes in second for me but they are very hit or miss. Its really tough and annoying and i cannot even begin to count the number of tracking credits I have missed out on. The good thing is that word of mouth is stronger in my opinion especially in the tracking world.

I have worked on more records that dont have my name on it than records that do have my name on it.
Its all about how persistent an engineer is, if you dont push it, it generally gets dropped.

if you really want your credit, you personally call the A&R Admin who is handling the credits. Or the A&R Admin who is handling the project, this is a DIFFERENT person than the A&R guy, the Admin helps with paperwork and getting checks cut, etc... If they arent putting together credits, they will usually tell you who to contact to give your credits to.

Be very polite, and it might take you several phone calls to get to the right person. If its important to you, its worth it. Having said all that, my name has been left off of MANY albums that it shouldnt have been. sometimes because of my lack of diligence in making sure it was on there, sometimes complete carelessness on the label's part.

Getting properly credited matters. if you are credited on an album and someone googles you, or goes to allmusic.com and checks you out, if your name isnt in the liner notes, you dont show up. If you say to someone "oh yeah, i engineered on XY and Z albums, and they cant find your credits, they are likely to call BS on you, or not hire you because they think your lying. not everybody checks, but people do.

and besides, 20 years from now, when your career is all washed up, dont you want to have something with your name on it to look back and remember why you struggled so much and worked so hard?

If your lucky enough youll get credited about 75% of the time. No matter how big the gig or the album, it still sucks not to get that cred. I have the worst time with it still, and I have a manager that busts her ass to get it right. As long as it makes it to allmusic.com I guess lol

I was just gonna say that. I really wish/hope that happens sometime soon.