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If you were tracking HipHop/RnB what outboard could you not live without Condenser Microphones
Old 20th November 2002
  #31
no ssl yet 
Guest
Thrill Assuming I mix in the box. The AD 16 will be a good addition. But, do you think It will help without the DA16. right now the only DA I have is the finalizer and the outputs on the Adat bridge.

I am seriously considering a pair of CIB's. I'm gonna sell my manley pultec and NTI EQ3 and use the money toward quality channels (of course I'll have to add some cash).

The CIB's make perfect sense. I will wait to find a Distressor used. For now my 160xt gets me what I want on kick and snare.

Depending on my initial budget and how much I can sell my pieces for. I'm gonna go for

AD16
3 mix farms
2 CIB's
a single 1272
a Tube Tech comp (used)
Distressor (used)


Then later I can add a
DA16
different mic pre flavors
more comps

As of right now the vocal that matters most around here is mine
So I will audition probably the Lawson, Soundeluxe stuff, and a Neumann149
Old 20th November 2002
  #32
Gear Maniac
 
Jack the Bear's Avatar
 

Here here,

Never were truer words spoken when it comes to the importance of your relationships with your clients and in life itself.

If I walked away with one thing and one thing only after my training in the States, it was being good at "hang time". I've met some brilliant mastering guys who could tell you everything you ever wanted to know about mastering, technical stuff...you name it, BUT they were utter ****in' assholes!

I've also met great engineers, who didn't know what a Fletcher Munson curve was for instance, still did great work and were an absolute joy to be around.

Yeah good ears, gear etc etc are vital, but we are all naturally prone to gravitate towards those who REALLY care and are in our corner. Those who take the extra time to do those little things and who see the client not only as a vehicle towards the next payment on their Lexus or a new box.

No matter what your vocation, whether you're a big time mix guy or a glorified tape copy boy like me, the principles remain the same.

Don't know what this has to do with Hip Hop, but I'm sure even the Brothers prefer to deal with people who they like.

Cheers,

Tony Mantz.

ps good call on the Apogee as well. I do think the HEDD 192 ****s all over it when you put em' side by side. I also have a PSX-100 and frankly hate it. The soft limit sounds strained and I think there's a weird lower mid hump. Old skool rock pigs love em'. But as far using the AD-8000 in the Mixplus context is concerned and there is are budgetary constraints, you can do a lot worse.
Old 20th November 2002
  #33
Quote:
Originally posted by no ssl yet
Thrill Assuming I mix in the box. The AD 16 will be a good addition. But, do you think It will help without the DA16. right now the only DA I have is the finalizer and the outputs on the Adat bridge.

I am seriously considering a pair of CIB's. I'm gonna sell my manley pultec and NTI EQ3 and use the money toward quality channels (of course I'll have to add some cash).

The CIB's make perfect sense. I will wait to find a Distressor used. For now my 160xt gets me what I want on kick and snare.

Depending on my initial budget and how much I can sell my pieces for. I'm gonna go for

AD16
3 mix farms
2 CIB's
a single 1272
a Tube Tech comp (used)
Distressor (used)


Then later I can add a
DA16
different mic pre flavors
more comps

As of right now the vocal that matters most around here is mine
So I will audition probably the Lawson, Soundeluxe stuff, and a Neumann149
You still need some kind of PT interface. If you get (2)CIB's I think you can do without the 1272. What's the street price on a 1272(Averill or Vintech) these days? Maybe between $1300-1500? Not really sure. Maybe you can take that dough and purchase an Adat Bridge($650), a nice DA for monitoring(Benchmark,Mytek or Lucid)$700-$750. And with the rest buy either a nice direct box(Avalon) for tracking bass/guitars direct or a nice effect box with Adat lightpipe ins.

Good luck.

Peace.
Old 20th November 2002
  #34
no ssl yet 
Guest
Thrill your missing my point. I already have an adatbridge 24 That's how I use the finalizer's AD/DA via Spdif

OK so I'm down to

3 mix farms
2 CIB's
Tube Tech comp
Distressor
AD 16
Lucid for DA conversion
Mic (Lawson, Soundeluxe, or Neumann 149
Maybe a PCM 91 or a TC M3000

It seems I'm spending a little less than an HD system though only a little is going into enhancing the mix system with cards and an interface (about 7G's)
How much of this could be avoided if I Go HD3 and plugins? I'd still need The mic channel and comp combo's but would get more DSP.

Is mixing with plugs truely improved in HD???
The problem I get with my mixes right now is that they are not clearly defined. And my mid/hi end wont get right no matter how I EQ
I'm hoping that this is a combination of my weak converters and my lack of the sony EQ that everyone seems to rave about. If this is not improved in HD then I need to stay in mix and add some outboard Channels

For practice I like to take a comearcial CD with a vocal only intro
and try to match a vocal track to it sonically. To compensate for mastering and final pump I turn the commearcial CD down a few db's.
When I compare, using plugins I can never get the mids/hi to come close.
And I am pretty good with an EQ. Of course my mic/pre are a lesser combo than that used on the major session. But from what I remember of analog days It was easier to get closer than it is now

What do I need to improve this?
Old 20th November 2002
  #35
Quote:
Originally posted by no ssl yet
Thrill your missing my point. I already have an adatbridge 24 That's how I use the finalizer's AD/DA via Spdif

OK so I'm down to

3 mix farms
2 CIB's
Tube Tech comp
Distressor
AD 16
Lucid for DA conversion
Mic (Lawson, Soundeluxe, or Neumann 149
Maybe a PCM 91 or a TC M3000

It seems I'm spending a little less than an HD system though only a little is going into enhancing the mix system with cards and an interface (about 7G's)
How much of this could be avoided if I Go HD3 and plugins? I'd still need The mic channel and comp combo's but would get more DSP.

Is mixing with plugs truely improved in HD???
The problem I get with my mixes right now is that they are not clearly defined. And my mid/hi end wont get right no matter how I EQ
I'm hoping that this is a combination of my weak converters and my lack of the sony EQ that everyone seems to rave about. If this is not improved in HD then I need to stay in mix and add some outboard Channels

For practice I like to take a comearcial CD with a vocal only intro
and try to match a vocal track to it sonically. To compensate for mastering and final pump I turn the commearcial CD down a few db's.
When I compare, using plugins I can never get the mids/hi to come close.
And I am pretty good with an EQ. Of course my mic/pre are a lesser combo than that used on the major session. But from what I remember of analog days It was easier to get closer than it is now

What do I need to improve this?

Sorry didn't know about the Adat Bridge.

A mid/hi end definition problem is usually a bad monitoring/room combination or arrangement(for eg too much instruments with low mids/bass frequencies). This is one area we haven't touched is your monitoring situation. If you can't truly hear what you are doing than this is a bigger issue. All the gear in the world won't be able to fix that. One thing digital is great at(i know one thing.lol) is capturing and reproducing the highs(we are talking 20Khz here). Your monitoring situation you will have to determine yourself, it could be the wrong monitors or the room or both. I hope its just the monitors cause these can be replaced(or changed). A room issue is a different story.


Now i know you are producing Hiphop/RnB. This usually equals a lot of lowmids and bass(sometimes a lot of bass). What happens in the arrangement is that if you have to many instruments in this area, their frequencies tend to sneak up in the vocal frequencies(problem!!!). And since you are doing the vocals(tenor right?) that's pretty close. The instruments frequencies are probably smearing your vocals, so you are going to have to create a pocket for your vocals. Remember, in most popular music forms(pop,rnb,hiphop, and even country) the vocals rule, they are the focal point so treat them as so. I've stated before that my mixing practices have changed over the years. Where in the beginning i was all about the drums and efx, I have become more vocal focused. I start with the vocals/bckgrounds first, make them stellar and build my mixes from that. If something gets in the way, than they get cut,muted or placed(through panning and efx) somewhere else. I know for most guys this is difficult(i think is the left brain-right brain thing), but it works(hey if it works for Dexter Simmons and he is the top rnb/pop mixer around, than who are we to question it. He also to me has the best vocal mixes).

I hope this helps some.
Old 20th November 2002
  #36
no ssl yet 
Guest
Thrill it's not that my room is that bad, Or that I have other elements of the mix clashing (I know these are common problems for alot of cats at home doing hip hop so this is probably why you gave this advice. But this is not my problem since I am pretty good with a filter and at chiseling instruments to fit.)

MY POINT WAS

The mixes I love have a sweeter hi/mid than I am getting with plugins. Even if it is just a vocal soloed. Vs A record with a vocal intro. I get close with filtterbank but not where I want to be.

Is this a product of my converter being the TC. Or is the sony plug that much better??

Though I dont have the best monitoring environment (Mackie/NS10M) I can hear that the other CD's have what I'm looking for yet if I solo a track with a thin Q setting and scan through the frequency's it's hard for me to get it to sound as sweet.
Old 20th November 2002
  #37
no ssl yet 
Guest
I may have to send you a mix to show you what my problem is (I've been meaning to send one to E-cue for the longest)

Man I get better mixes than any studio in New Orleans with a protools system. It's just that I and I repeat I am not satisfied yet.

I have a mix that MR. Pensado did for a friend and It's what I use as the measuring stick.

I'm not there LOL But I sometimes get close. Infact so close that it's hard for me to justify large expenditures on gear. I want to buy specific tools for specific problems at this point. The first purchase will be to better my front end. The second will be for more DSP

I neglected to mention that the vocals that I'm referencing were cut with a Bellari Pre (Manley Tubes) and a TLM103. I know it's not the best combo or setup. But I have seen heard the before and after of when Dave repaired worse setups and made the record come off. Plus It was alsihad
Old 21st November 2002
  #38
I understand a little bit better now(I think).


All I can tell you is that Dave Pensado mixes like he does, because he is who he is.(Is this confusing or what?)

He hears things a certain way, just like you do and everyone else does. You combine that with experience, a photographic memory(especially when it comes to getting sounds with outboard), some talent/creativity and you have the makings of a top notch mixer!!!

So what does this have to do with you and your situation? Basically you want to adopt his sound into your mixes. Well, I got news for you...this may never happen. Look, I know one thing that is not talked alot about on this forum(because it is a gear forum) is talent. That is something you are born with. Anyone can mix, but not everyone in this life will mix well. Its a god given talent(if you believe in it). There is a reason that certain guys mix and others don't(and its not just the politics). Look I couldn't track well to save my life except vocals and the occasional acoustic guitar).
So I made a decision a while ago to focus on something that i was good at which is mixing!!!(Thank god).

Dave mixes on a 9000J to 1/2". He likes running multiple subs for vocals depending on the vocal parts(different combinations of comps and EQs and sometimes plugs). He uses a lot of outboard effects for his vocals. He mixes on some of the best control monitoring at the Enterprise/Larrabee. Should I go on? Lets say I would set you up at Larrabee with all of his gear(and Larabees) and told you that this is what he uses go for it, mix me a hit record...could you do it? Maybe or maybe not? Probably not because you are not use to it.

In closing I can tell you that if you go out and buy a Avalon 2055 EQ,some 1073's, a modified Gates Sta Level, an Orville, some PCM42's(stuff he uses in his mixes) and that's all you need I'd be doing a disservice. Learn to work what your situation brings you, but when you start comparing you are setting yourself up to fall.
Old 21st November 2002
  #39
Why do you need a 16 ch A/D for hip hop?

I recomend a 2 ch prism converter, bag of christal meth a weapon and a ski mask!

Why do anything in HALF MEASURES!



TAKE THE WHOLE BLOCK OUT!

Old 21st November 2002
  #40
Quote:
Originally posted by Jules
Why do you need a 16 ch A/D for hip hop?

I recomend a 2 ch prism converter, bag of christal meth a weapon and a ski mask!

Why do anything in HALF MEASURES!



TAKE THE WHOLE BLOCK OUT!


Try tracking an MPC2000 (2) tracks at a time.

Also it has lightpipe to interface with the Adat bridge.

Christal Meth? Jules that's the stupid/bored white kids drug!!!tut

Like the ones who think that Eminem is it!!! Or that they are down cause they listen to Ja Rule or Jay Z!!!

Sorry Jules strictly blunts and 40's. Maybe over there across the pond. heh
Old 21st November 2002
  #41
no ssl yet 
Guest
Thrill I agree on talents being God Given. IN fact I sometimes feel I was given so many that it has been a curse because I never concentrated on one thing because I was good at several. Kinda like when I was good at math in school so I never studied and got by with C's just because I was lazy and never studied

From the math example I learned something that I have taken with me since highschool and through college. While I was the student who took concepts for granted and got bored because they came easy. In every class there was a student who wasnt as smart and didn't have the knack for grasping concepts. That student studied nightly, bussed ass and got A's.

From that I learned to constantly strive for better and to develop a work ethic no matter how good I got at something. In basketball season that meant shooting 150 shots a day. In band camp that meant practicing boring assed scales and long tones (I played trumpet)

I'm applying the same theory to engineering. I am not trying to match Dave step for step. He is just my personal favorite. I'm striving to get to a point where my gear is not shooting me in the foot and all that is left to blame is my talent or lack there of. This is when I feel I will learn more. Infact it has already began. Ptools is light years ahead of the sound I used to get with my mackie board and adatsgrggt

I refer to Dave's mixes partly because he was the one who told me to get a ptools system.

Mixing is a talent. But I don't think anyone was born mixing. At some point all of the greats put in time and experimented with our drug of choice (engineering and gear buying)

I'm only striving to get the bare minimum of tools so that I can begin to better my skills and pick up more gear as I go along.
Old 21st November 2002
  #42
Lives for gear
 
groundcontrol's Avatar
 

I do think that changing your front end (including AD and clocking) will help you lots. That said, why don't you download the Sony EQ and shoot it out against Filterbank to see if it can help bring you one step closer. For me and the way I work, it's the only plug eq I care to put across my tracks. (It might not do it for you but at least you'll know...) Of course I would prefer having a console with a Massivo on every track! grggt If given enough quality outboard at mix time, I mostly use an all analog outboard chain on my vocals when mixing, but the Oxford was as good as I found in plug-in land.

BTW, I think those dfegad Mackie speakers are definite slag-thread material!!! :eek:
Old 21st November 2002
  #43
no ssl yet 
Guest
Ground control thanks for the advice.

Here's a story for you. One of my mackie woofers blew and I never bothered to fix it. LOL

I guess I should start saying
I mix on NS10's and not mention the mackies since I haven't used them in over a year since the woofer blew rollz

What I'm gonna do and follow Thrill's advice with 2 CIB's and put one on vocals at all times. I think I need a cumulative effect of several things. So I will get the apogee/CIB combo with more mix farms and then audition the sony EQ. (Only problem is I have used the demo before, but didn't have enough DSP with only a mix card to judge it vs anything. I wonder if an email to sony explaining my cause will get me another demo in the future.)
Old 21st November 2002
  #44
Quote:
Originally posted by no ssl yet
[B

Mixing is a talent. But I don't think anyone was born mixing. At some point all of the greats put in time and experimented with our drug of choice (engineering and gear buying)

I'm only striving to get the bare minimum of tools so that I can begin to better my skills and pick up more gear as I go along. [/B]
Hey No SSL,


This is where I disagree. I think anyone can learn the techniques of mixing(there really aren't that many). But to mix well(or great) is a gift. Even Dave Pensado said it, its not for everybody. You have to be born with a certain mentality to be able to take a mix that's great and make it special. I heard that Bob Clearmountain started mixing from the time he was 16 or 17(and we are talking early Kool and the Gang). Mick Guzauski's demo stuff got him gigs with David Foster. Mike Shipley is the guy Mutt Lange tapped(when he was young) to handle the task of bringing his ideas to life for Def Leppard. I remember back in the 80's at the midi rooms in Unique(yes back in the day in recording studios you had rooms dedicated for midi), there was all the buzz of two young engineers that all the clients wanted to work with. They were brash,arrogant, but great mixers...and these were the Alge Bros. I think early on this talent(or gift) surfaces and life encourages you in that direction.

Hey, you are either born with it or you are not. If you noticed most of the top guys in the world do nothing else. I know Tom Lord Alge said he tried it for a while(his first project went platinum, OMD."if you leave me". He also won a grammy with Steve Winwood), but he felt he couldn't compete as a producer. But he knew how to mix and do it well, so he went back and built up his rep in the rock world(he was doing mostly pop up to that point). Bob Clearmountain has produced hit records(Bryan Adams,Simple Minds)but even he said that he knows where his strengths lie.

I think the way you are trying to build things up is great.

Good Luck.
Old 21st November 2002
  #45
no ssl yet 
Guest
Well thrill I can only say that even Michael Jordan was once cut from a basketball team and went on to be the greatest ever. Ali lost some fights before he turned pro.

Everyone starts somwhere. I think part of the gift is the drive to be persistant at what it takes to learn the necessary skills.

With that said I can admit I met a "engineer" who wouldn't be able to mix if he studied for life. But he was so much of an azzhole as a person that it was probably karma that made him terrible.

I brought my spatializer retro to his neve room. and he told me he didnt have any cables to interface with its TRS connections for his TT patch bay. Then he asked me how much it cost. and Said nothing that cheap could be professional anyway. dfegad is what I think of him

Have you ever knoticed the best mix engineers are great people all around?

I strive daily to work on my people skills as well
Old 22nd November 2002
  #46
Lives for gear
 
groundcontrol's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by no ssl yet Have you ever knoticed the best mix engineers are great people all around?[/B]
Mmmh, I'm not so sure about that... Not that I've met them all though.
Old 22nd November 2002
  #47
Quote:
Originally posted by no ssl yet
Well thrill I can only say that even Michael Jordan was once cut from a basketball team and went on to be the greatest ever. Ali lost some fights before he turned pro.

Everyone starts somwhere. I think part of the gift is the drive to be persistant at what it takes to learn the necessary skills.

With that said I can admit I met a "engineer" who wouldn't be able to mix if he studied for life. But he was so much of an azzhole as a person that it was probably karma that made him terrible.

I brought my spatializer retro to his neve room. and he told me he didnt have any cables to interface with its TRS connections for his TT patch bay. Then he asked me how much it cost. and Said nothing that cheap could be professional anyway. dfegad is what I think of him

Have you ever knoticed the best mix engineers are great people all around?

I strive daily to work on my people skills as well

Point well taken. Its funny you read my mind about Michael. I guess until you try you'll never find out.

But remember Michael's lifetime BA for the White Sox(minor league team) was around .200...Ouch!!!

And he went back to basketball and won another championship!!!

You know I think Mix engineers have a reputation of being arrogant and aloof(Dave Pensado is an exception, a well rounded,down to earth person. Hey he is even a great photographer!! By the way did I mention I use to be a chef? I guess that's another topic all together.) I think we are known for being that way because human interaction is low(that is one reason I think I don't track, you have to deal with less people especially stupid musicians. Even though A&R and artist management can be just as bad). Most of the time its you and the machines. You even start given certain pieces of gear names,its a crazy lifestyle!!!!

That's if you are lucky enough to have one!!!

People skills are a must if you want to go far in this business!!! I always try to read from time to time books on how to motivate and get the best out of people. My favorites are:

1)Pat Rileys book-The Winner Within I think?

2)There is a business book I own on how to apply Gandhi's human practices with business. An excellent read.

3) The Friendship Factor

4)The Code of the Samurai.

5)The seven habits of highly effective people

6) Abraham Lincoln-How to apply his life(leadership prinicples and human interaction) with business. Excellent.

All these books are great and I am sure there are other good one's out there. Anyone?
Old 22nd November 2002
  #48
no ssl yet 
Guest
What is the the difference between the AD/DA 16 and a used AD8k other than the number of channels? I could get an aD8K for about $2300 used.

I'm considering adding a Tube Tech MEC1A to my list. Is the comp and pre in that unit the same as the ones in the MP1-a and the CL1B???

I loved the tubetech pre the last time I played around with it. And I've heard very good things about their comps


Does anyone know of a good 8 channel DA only?
I'm thinking if I get an AD16 I won't ever need more than 8 channels of DA conversion. I'd like to have at least four though.

I'm considering that serato scratch plugin and I'd need something to run it. Also I need something to connect my spatializer retro. (Of course I could use my old adat for 8 channels of DA as long as I bought a stereo for my monitoring and didnt use it for anything crucial
The savings between a DA 16 and a 2 channel converter could buy me a Tube Tech comp


yuktyy
Old 22nd November 2002
  #49
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groundcontrol's Avatar
 

Believe me, when your outboard rack will start to grow (and it WILL if you care about sound quality... err, did I say that loud?!? heh ) you'll really appreciate those 16 channels of insert...
Old 22nd November 2002
  #50
Gear Maniac
 
Jack the Bear's Avatar
 

I have to agree there is this thing called the X factor. That indefinable intangible quality. Maybe it's self-belief, maybe it's God-given. I dunno...if I did I'd bottle the stuff, sell it and become extremely wealthy.

Let's not also forget there is the great marketing machine that seems to elavate people to "flavor of the month" as well. There's a lot of fantastic talent out there who are yet to be discovered, because they haven't got as Howie Weinberg told me "the home run".

The thing with the likes of Lord Alge bros or say Bob Ludwig is that the taste never quite leaves people's mouths. Good luck to em'.


Cheers,

Tony Mantz.
Old 22nd November 2002
  #51
Gear Maniac
 
Jack the Bear's Avatar
 

Sorry guys,

Wrong thread

I'd like to thank those who voted me Goose of the Year 2002............

Cheers.

Tony "what is the color of red" Mantz.
Old 23rd November 2002
  #52
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Renie's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by no ssl yet

I'm considering adding a Tube Tech MEC1A to my list. Is the comp and pre in that unit the same as the ones in the MP1-a and the CL1B???

anyone know the answer..?

Thrill, I think Daniel Goleman's 'Emotional Intelligence' is a good book, you might find it interesting.
Old 23rd November 2002
  #53
s2n
Gear Nut
 

dbx120
subwoofer
Old 23rd November 2002
  #54
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5down1up's Avatar
 

why dont u just go for a nice mixer ??? you can get f.ex. a amek or something else real cheap nowadays . 44 channels , mic & line pres , eqs , automation etc . you´ll need a bunch of farms to replace a hardware mixer like that . a friend of mine is a mixer over here , he runs 882/20s interfaces in his console ( adt ) .
it sounds awesome . i know , i was wondering too when i saw it the first time . i think its cool to have some pres , but doing it " protools " only , f.ex. 16 channels of good pres are even more expensive compared to a used console which was selling new for like 35000 $$$ . and again , monitoring ( damn something expensive like the dangerous 2bus you get almost half of those consoles i am talking about ) .

i am just wondering if digital is overhyped

you get a mixfarm for 1500 $ , you get a m5000 for the same .
i know what i would pick heh

dont wanna confuse your plan , but i know what keeps your brain thinkin and thinkin .

right now "i " would go for a desk . protools and all the stuff you need to get close is imho way to expensive .

as usual , the best thing would be " i take it all "

cu
Old 23rd November 2002
  #55
Quote:
Originally posted by 5down1up
why dont u just go for a nice mixer ??? you can get f.ex. a amek or something else real cheap nowadays . 44 channels , mic & line pres , eqs , automation etc . you´ll need a bunch of farms to replace a hardware mixer like that . a friend of mine is a mixer over here , he runs 882/20s interfaces in his console ( adt ) .
it sounds awesome . i know , i was wondering too when i saw it the first time . i think its cool to have some pres , but doing it " protools " only , f.ex. 16 channels of good pres are even more expensive compared to a used console which was selling new for like 35000 $$$ . and again , monitoring ( damn something expensive like the dangerous 2bus you get almost half of those consoles i am talking about ) .

i am just wondering if digital is overhyped

you get a mixfarm for 1500 $ , you get a m5000 for the same .
i know what i would pick heh

dont wanna confuse your plan , but i know what keeps your brain thinkin and thinkin .

right now "i " would go for a desk . protools and all the stuff you need to get close is imho way to expensive .

as usual , the best thing would be " i take it all "

cu
Not all analog consoles are built equal. Just like not all analog tape recorders sound the same. I think its a little irresponsible just to say"hey buy any analog mixer and run your PT through it", it will sound better. That's not neccesarily true. What about the crosstalk,noise and headroom for that particular board. Yeah a Mackie sounds great if you use (2)channels, but run all 24 and hear the sound collapse. Same goes for the Amek BIG(a Big piece of junk in my opinion).

I know a lot of guys here got there start on Digital machines and they didn't live through the "analog age". But I can tell you from experience, PT with all its drawbacks is a better mixing tool than a lot of the analog boards ever made. Remember SSL was the first company to build consoles specifically for mixing. Just because it is analog does not make it equal or better.
Old 23rd November 2002
  #56
no ssl yet 
Guest
Though Mackie Boards are always slagged off on most net sites I have a friend who recomends summing ptools on a mackie via the Mix B bus (without using the damn terrible EQ's that make everything worse)

I've never tried it because I don't have the AD/DA converters. But I've heard some pretty nice mixes come from Mackies (withoutboard processors in every insert and bypassing the EQ)

Has anyone here experienced one beyond the pre's and eq's? If I bypass these parts is the board better as a summing device?

Everytime I hear a mackie slagged its usually becuase of the pre/EQ and crosstalk of the faders and main bus.

Is there a benefit in using the board if you bypass these parts?
Old 24th November 2002
  #57
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Wiggy Neve Slut's Avatar
 

Not all analog consoles are built equal.

Agree...

There a lot of 'hidden gem' type consoles around that sound great and could give you the analogue tone that you are seeking for less than $5K.

For my money i used to have an old MCI 428 and **** with a small mod done to the swing of the PSU it was putting out +30 dBU.. which for the type of rig you are talking about will be a fantastic bonus. Its chock full of Fat ass mic and line input and output transformers so it will have a nice (dare i say it!) 'warmth' to it's tone, is has some inductors in the lower portions of the EQ and is fully 24 buss. The only other considerations are the maintenance issues which are not that much but some of the parts are becoming harder to come by now. Also fidnig a tech is knows his way around this sort of stuff is a very good place to start. But generally athat goes wrong is nothing that Belvinsaudio exchange cant fix. In fact i am lead to beleive he's 'The man' to go to for anything MCI related. But the tonal benefits of a desk of this sort clearly outweigh the convenience and size restrictions of the mackie.. which sonically is like comparing chalk and cheese.

ALso lookout for an older Neotek, Ward Beck, Calrec desks.. they are around at good rpices and would provide a great front end and mix buss to give you some real headroom for your mixes.. that is is your are choosing to head down the analogue desk path.

PEACE
Wiggy
Attached Thumbnails
If you were tracking HipHop/RnB what outboard could you not live without-mci-far-crop-.jpg  
Old 24th November 2002
  #58
Gear Maniac
 
Neve Sucks!'s Avatar
 

Wiggy,

a friend of mine is building twelve MCI dual preamps/eq based on the 400. He bought a console and took out all the original parts. Made new 19" boxes and motherboards. ALL parts is the originals!!

I agree with you, I think the MCI 400 series sounds very warm and dare I to say faaaat......yuktyy

What does the gearslut in you think? Do you wantwantwantwant one.......grggt
I can hook you up.......

/Mixmaster Santa
Old 24th November 2002
  #59
Lives for gear
 
5down1up's Avatar
 

2 thrillfactor :

dont get me wrong heh i just wanted to show another option .
i dont know that much about desks like some of you do .
and i am defenately not saying , that analog is better compared to digital . but we are talking not in general . his options are budget based . i bet you can configure a protools system which can be very nice . just for that ... a nice mac , if not hd probably a expansion , some displays , converters , clock , a controler , plugins , monitoring unit etc . then you´ll have the ability to mix " nice recorded " signals in a good way ... shure .
but he needs to record as well , again , some nice mics , some pres & eqs & comps , the best would be to have some different " flavours " . and again , probably some outboard fx for better results etc . and he wants to arrange as well , keyboards , samplers etc . and we havent even talked about wiring , monitoring , the rooms etc .
of course he wants to have fun with it doing it , which means he deservs good results .

most studios i know :

nice gear to mix in , no good rooms to record in and not much soundgear to arrange stuff .
nice rooms to record in & gear to arrange stuff , no gear available to mix it real nice .

if i would sell all my keys i could buy a bigger pt rig or a bigger mixer . if i would sell my pt , i could get more keys or guitars . if i would sell my outboard i would be able to get more mics , but hey ... yall know what i am talking bout.

still searching 4 a good solution as well , good luck

some people i know , are running a mac with motu through the sony dash converters into an euphonix . sounds cool , too .
but euphonix is not on the budget . but the idea may show , you can get some " digital " stuff nowadays as well , which provides good options and a great sound .
Old 24th November 2002
  #60
no ssl yet 
Guest
Guys, How are the converters on the Studer Adats?? I have a friend who is willing to loan me a pair. Would the be comparable to getting an apogee unit?? Would it be worth the difference (if any) to get the apogee units anyway? Keep in mind the Studer's are free.
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