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I want to make "New Jack Swing" beats, what do I need?
Old 12th January 2019
  #181
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shobiz View Post
Troop was the fake New Edition. LOL
You are tripping, they were much better singers than New Edition. New Edition had hotter tracks and better production though. Dudes covered a Jackson 5 song and did it better than the Jackson 5. Give them props.

Last edited by Juice Malone; 12th January 2019 at 09:54 AM..
Old 12th January 2019
  #182
Gear Maniac
 

On another note if you want to truly understand New Jack Swing you need to look into the NYC post-disco scene. Groups like Change, BBQ Band, D Train and some of the acts on Salsoul Records. As alot of these artists began to move further away from their disco roots in the 80s and started to rely more heavily on the use of synthesizers and drum machines you can start to hear some similar sounds and influences.

Last edited by Juice Malone; 12th January 2019 at 05:07 PM..
Old 12th January 2019
  #183
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juice Malone View Post
You are tripping, they were much better singers than New Edition. New Edition had hotter tracks and better production though. Dudes covered a Jackson 5 song and did it better than the Jackson 5. Give them props.
Troop was amazing. On of my favorite group from that era. I saw them live once and it delivered.
Old 18th January 2019
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juice Malone View Post
On another note if you want to truly understand New Jack Swing you need to look into the NYC post-disco scene. Groups like Change, BBQ Band, D Train and some of the acts on Salsoul Records. As alot of these artists began to move further away from their disco roots in the 80s and started to rely more heavily on the use of synthesizers and drum machines you can start to hear some similar sounds and influences.
“Paradise Garage Disco” and Post-Disco, yes....
Old 3rd February 2019
  #185
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illynoise's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Methlab View Post
Troop was amazing. On of my favorite group from that era. I saw them live once and it delivered.
chuckii booker - Turned away...easily one of my favorite songs of all time. A clinic on how to make a melodic R&B new jackish type of song.

I believe he did production on Troop...correct me if I'm wrong.
Old 5th February 2019
  #186
Dot
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Dot's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
The Korg M1 keyboard was king when New Jack Swing was hot, also they used alot of Loops and hip hop stabs the tempos were like 110 bpm with a swing
Korg M1, FTW.

I was there in the late 80s early 90s and worked on New Jack Swing and also Freestyle records in NYC studios. Almost everyone brought in their Korg M1 with tracks finished, and we'd dump the track to tape, record vocals, and mix.

At the time this was a really new and cool way of working for producers.

Here's a track I engineered during the heyday of New Jack.

Elements of Style - That's the Kind of Girl
Old 5th February 2019
  #187
Gear Addict
 

[QUOTE=Dot;13791047]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post

Here's a track I engineered during the heyday of New Jack.

Elements of Style - That's the Kind of Girl
Sick! What were these producers using to sequence everything at the time? Were the drums coming from the M1 too? Would love to hear any Freestyle tracks you worked on!
Old 6th February 2019
  #188
Dot
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Sequencing was all done on M1 too. Everything... sequence and all sounds. They walked in with their M1 with the complete music track finished. We'd record the individual tracks to tape dry and added efx from the studio's outboard.

There were S900s, S1000s, and S1100s around and SP1200 drum machines, but those got used more on new jack and freestyle by the remixers.

I worked with Cynthia. Recorded and produced the vocals for Pledging All My Love.

I had her in the vocal booth for 16 hours to nail all the tracks. She was great to work with. Tons of punch ins, even on single consonants. There are something like 21 tracks of background vocals. We did a rough mix of the song, flew it down further on the 24-track tape and put it on two tracks. SMPTE was always on track 24, so that gave us 21 tracks to layer bkg vox tracks. All the bkg vox were mixed to 2-track and then flown in by hand - took a few tries to get it to lock in right - to two tracks of the song on the 24-track tape from a 2-track reel-to-reel.

.
Old 8th February 2019
  #189
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Juice Malone View Post
You are tripping, they were much better singers than New Edition. New Edition had hotter tracks and better production though. Dudes covered a Jackson 5 song and did it better than the Jackson 5. Give them props.
They had 2 Songs. Spread My Wings and the J5 song. They could dance though. Hi5 was a better group.
Old 8th February 2019
  #190
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E-Irizarry's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juice Malone View Post
You are tripping, they were much better singers than New Edition. New Edition had hotter tracks and better production though. Dudes covered a Jackson 5 song and did it better than the Jackson 5. Give them props.
Very rarely are remakes better than the originals.

I probably can count on one hand the remakes that are better than the originals

1) I WILL ALWAYS LOVE YOU - WHITNEY HOUSTON (slayed Dolly Parton's version)

2) CRUISIN' - D'ANGELO (Smokey's version was cool but that weed elevated D'Angelo's voice to soar and that sh*t is better than Smokey's version)

3) AIN'T YOU HAD ENOUGH LOVE - PHYLIS HYMAN (better than the Loose Ends/Julie Roberts' version) Original: | Remake by Phylis Hyman:

4) IRREPLACEABLE - BEYONCE (Original was by Ne-Yo Link: )

5) I CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT YOU - Charlie Wilson (better than Mario Barnett and Glenn Lewis' versions) | | Glenn Lewis' version:

Mario Barnett's version:
Old 8th February 2019
  #191
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shobiz View Post
They had 2 Songs. Spread My Wings and the J5 song. They could dance though. Hi5 was a better group.
Huh? How about "Sweet November" or "Mamacita"? They probably had about a dozen songs break the top 20 on the R&B charts back in the day.
Old 8th February 2019
  #192
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dot View Post
Sequencing was all done on M1 too. Everything... sequence and all sounds. They walked in with their M1 with the complete music track finished. We'd record the individual tracks to tape dry and added efx from the studio's outboard.

There were S900s, S1000s, and S1100s around and SP1200 drum machines, but those got used more on new jack and freestyle by the remixers.

I worked with Cynthia. Recorded and produced the vocals for Pledging All My Love.

I had her in the vocal booth for 16 hours to nail all the tracks. She was great to work with. Tons of punch ins, even on single consonants. There are something like 21 tracks of background vocals. We did a rough mix of the song, flew it down further on the 24-track tape and put it on two tracks. SMPTE was always on track 24, so that gave us 21 tracks to layer bkg vox tracks. All the bkg vox were mixed to 2-track and then flown in by hand - took a few tries to get it to lock in right - to two tracks of the song on the 24-track tape from a 2-track reel-to-reel.

.
Amazing, what a great era of music to be involved in. Love Cynthia. Needless to say I'll be poking around my M1 plugin a hell of a lot more now, thank you for the behind the scenes insight!
Old 8th February 2019
  #193
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boombapdame's Avatar
 

Speaking of Sweet November @ Juice Malone peep

Old 22nd March 2019
  #194
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These were posted earlier in the thread. Someone said that there's a Roland R8 on the Abdul track. Both songs have the same snare, so I checked my Roland R8, and there doesn't seem to be something in there that matches it. Are you sure this is from a Roland R8? It's got to come from something though, seeing as multiple people used it.
Old 22nd March 2019
  #195
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E-Irizarry's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juice Malone View Post
On another note if you want to truly understand New Jack Swing you need to look into the NYC post-disco scene. Groups like Change, BBQ Band, D Train and some of the acts on Salsoul Records. As alot of these artists began to move further away from their disco roots in the 80s and started to rely more heavily on the use of synthesizers and drum machines you can start to hear some similar sounds and influences.
Change post-Luther was tight, too. Jam & Lewis and that one Jive/Zomba producer produced a banging album in '84. "You Used To Hold Me Tight" by Thelma Houston was a dope record too...everytime I Hear that song I think of summers in NYC and NY Hot Tracks the deprecated show. Yes, Jam & Lewis also produced that Thelma Houston song; I know.

James "D-Train" Williams doesn't sing with that Teddy P-Miles Jaye-Christopher Williams bassy tenor octave sound anymore...he sounds different now when I went to his site a couple of years ago. I was shocked how "soulless" his singing became.
Old 22nd March 2019
  #196
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boombapdame's Avatar
 

I hate soulless singers and/or singing w/a passion @ E-Irizarry
Old 25th March 2019
  #197
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E-Irizarry's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by boombapdame View Post
I hate soulless singers and/or singing w/a passion @ E-Irizarry
That's why the only new singers I can get into are Lyfe Jennings, BJ The Chicago Kid (he has promise), Bobby V (his voice isn't deep but he sings with soul and reminds me of The Deele/Babyface - most people slept on his 2006 Special Occasion album demo (not the 2007 official album release featuring Timbaland-produced "Anonymous")), certain Miguel records, Chris Brown (not deep at all, but he sings high without a lot of dissonance), teenage Usher (Usher nowadays is trying to stay relevant by "mumble singing"), teenage Monica (she was a beast), okay I'm digressing my fault.

So yeah part II to good soulful singers nowadays, Adele (kiss my ass if you think otherwise - she sings better than most Black American female singers nowadays say what you want!! However if it were the pre 90s Adele would be at best a good background singer), even most British R&B singers nowadays are sick. That maricon Sam Smith sounds better than Seven Streeter (what type of name is that for a feminist chickenhead??!)

Ever since Brooke Valentine (look her up) came out with that Girl Fight song in 2005, moving forward just about all Black American female "R&B" "singers" sound fcuking alike!!!!!! Rihanna made this syndrome come to fruition even more so (No, "Rih-Rih" is a pop singer and always has been!) They all now just do that "mumble nasal sounding-like-a-White-female-pop-singer", and people think that because they are Black in race that they are by default singing R&B. Fcuk outta here with that.

I liked Justin Guarini (yeah I think he's a maricon too but that's irrelevant lol), and he should have been more popular. Mario Vasquez a mari too but he had Chris Brown-esque vocals that were good too, but Latinos never get a fair shake at R&B and I think that's racist megalomania provided by Jewish and Black (no mixed race pun) record execs.

Speaking of that, have you heard of Veronica Vasquez?, she sung even better than Lisa Lisa and Lisa Lisa was the first Puerto Rican R&B singer right?

Nesto Velasquez "Personalidad" and the original English version ...was hot...he was signed to Andre Harrell's Uptown MCA at the same time Christopher Williams was signed. Both of them got curbed when Harrell prioritized Jodeci and Mary over them. Harrell is kind of colorist although he liked Heavy D on the contrary hence why Heavy D was CEO of Uptown for a couple of years before it went to s.hit.

Now that I think of it, I think that Harrell curbed Nesto because he sounded too much like Horace Brown, which became Harrell's first Motown act when Harrell became Prez of Motown/Universal in late '95

J. Quest (the Puerto Rican R&B singer)....Barrio Boyz (those Chicanos could blow)...etc.
Old 25th March 2019
  #198
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boombapdame's Avatar
 

@ E-Irizarry I remember Veronica for



and as I remember seeing the vid what happened to




and I feel TV singing competitions are messing up R&B singing and I hated Brooke V

Last edited by boombapdame; 25th March 2019 at 08:24 PM..
Old 28th March 2019
  #199
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Check this out, all instruments used are from the correct time period

Old 12th April 2019
  #200
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by HSLand View Post




These were posted earlier in the thread. Someone said that there's a Roland R8 on the Abdul track. Both songs have the same snare, so I checked my Roland R8, and there doesn't seem to be something in there that matches it. Are you sure this is from a Roland R8? It's got to come from something though, seeing as multiple people used it.
I'm going to guess it's a Linn drum
Old 13th April 2019
  #201
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by HSLand View Post




These were posted earlier in the thread. Someone said that there's a Roland R8 on the Abdul track. Both songs have the same snare, so I checked my Roland R8, and there doesn't seem to be something in there that matches it. Are you sure this is from a Roland R8? It's got to come from something though, seeing as multiple people used it.
Yes, the sample called "Reverb Snare" on the R-8. But it's heavily processed on both recordings.

A classic snare...they even ported it over to the Sound Canvas.
Old 14th April 2019
  #202
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Actually, I think both of those albums came out before the R8 was released. i'm guessing it was a custom LinnDrum EPROM or something.
Old 7th July 2019
  #203
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Great thread, sans the mods being a bit one-sided in a healthy debate.

Long live all New Jack Swing.
Old 7th July 2019
  #204
Gear Maniac
 

akai mpc60 or mpc3000.

they literally have a "swing" control, which will make the 8th notes swing to various amounts.

the mpc60 is older and gritter, but was the main machine in use when a lot of that music was produced.
Old 7th July 2019
  #205
Quote:
Originally Posted by gearstudent View Post
akai mpc60 or mpc3000.

they literally have a "swing" control, which will make the 8th notes swing to various amounts.

the mpc60 is older and gritter, but was the main machine in use when a lot of that music was produced.
Possibly- it was released in 1988. Sp-12 and 1200 are more likely. Also the mpc 60 isn’t really gritty at all. It may slightly darken the sound but its a hi fi sampler compared to the sp 12/1200
Old 7th July 2019
  #206
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E-Irizarry's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by gearstudent View Post
akai mpc60 or mpc3000.

they literally have a "swing" control, which will make the 8th notes swing to various amounts.

the mpc60 is older and gritter, but was the main machine in use when a lot of that music was produced.
Well-stated, but just remember that the reason why the South was stuck on that crunk/trap sound is because all the new MPC's came out in NYC as NYC used to be the first point-of-sale/point-of-entry U.S. market to get imported stuff as well as newly-distributed American-made new inventions (e.g. new clothesline/gear, new electronics, new CDs).

So Southern producers were going to pawn shops to get the defunct MPC's NY producers were throwing away or pawning off and that's how the south Hip Hop was born.
Old 8th July 2019
  #207
Quote:
Originally Posted by gearstudent View Post
akai mpc60 or mpc3000.

they literally have a "swing" control, which will make the 8th notes swing to various amounts.

the mpc60 is older and gritter, but was the main machine in use when a lot of that music was produced.
Actually, 'Swing' shifts every even sixteenth note spot in a beat by the percentage you have selected. Doesn't do anything to straight eighth notes at all, if none of those fall on the beats that get shifted.

You can see exactly what it does in the sequencer when you apply it in the MPC software, or look at where the MIDI notes fall in the groove templates floating around for Logic/Cubase/etc.
Old 10th July 2019
  #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E-Irizarry View Post
Well-stated, but just remember that the reason why the South was stuck on that crunk/trap sound is because all the new MPC's came out in NYC as NYC used to be the first point-of-sale/point-of-entry U.S. market to get imported stuff as well as newly-distributed American-made new inventions (e.g. new clothesline/gear, new electronics, new CDs).

So Southern producers were going to pawn shops to get the defunct MPC's NY producers were throwing away or pawning off and that's how the south Hip Hop was born.
[mod delete]

Crunk came from the Miami and Memphis influences that had been big in Atlanta clubs for years prior—clubs such as 559 and The Gate.

Last edited by Bender412; 15th July 2019 at 02:39 PM.. Reason: Unnecessary
Old 15th July 2019
  #209
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E-Irizarry's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by breakinrecords View Post
[mod delete]

Crunk came from the Miami and Memphis influences that had been big in Atlanta clubs for years prior—clubs such as 559 and The Gate.
[mod delete]

You failed to explain where the sound came from. They don't produce crunk IN the clubs from Miami and Atlanta -they PLAYED it there; they produced it on the throw-away MPC's in the studios.

[mod delete]

Last edited by Bender412; 15th July 2019 at 02:42 PM.. Reason: Reference post edited
Old 15th July 2019
  #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E-Irizarry View Post
[mod delete]

You failed to explain where the sound came from. They don't produce crunk IN the clubs from Miami and Atlanta -they PLAYED it there; they produced it on the throw-away MPC's in the studios.

[mod delete]
The instruments were irrelevant, mostly. Although, Crunk was carried over from Atlanta Bass B-side/album cuts, which were Atlanta’s version of what Miami was doing. Also, many Miami artists moved to Atlanta.

Crunk mostly started with MPC60s, 3000s, 2000sq and SP-12/1200s, but it could have been made with most anything.

The Memphis Buck music influence was obvious, if you know anything about Memphis’ music scene. Tom Skeemask, 3-6, 8-Ball & MJG, Playa Fly, Al Kapone, etc, were doing “Crunk” a decade before Crunk was a thing.

Early Atlanta Crunk producers often started as Atlanta Bass producers, such as Toomp, Kizzy Rock, Smurf (Collipark), Devastator X and Redd Money. They used various instruments.
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