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I want to make "New Jack Swing" beats, what do I need?
Old 20th March 2018
  #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E-Irizarry View Post
Kiyamma is saved now. He has a YouTube channel here. Furthermore, Vincent produced for Lady Gaga...totally changed up his sound.

It's a shame Kiyamma went the mitigated religious route. His sounds were on-par to Jam & Lewis' mid-to-late 80s sound. I guess the business got to him.
Lm. Anti feminist r n b artist... vince married tamar and is huge. In business. He did a lot with vasal benford too.
Old 21st March 2018
  #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOUND BOMBING View Post
Great post,, do you produce?
Yes. Rap & R&B.
Old 21st March 2018
  #153
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Well, i'd rather listen to swing beats than dudstep.



Roland R-8 on this one.
And a U20....
Old 26th March 2018
  #154
When I think back to New Jack Swing beats, I think of that "Whip" snare, clunky kicks and 3-4 layers of drum beats.
Old 3rd September 2018
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S_A_P View Post
When I think back to New Jack Swing beats, I think of that "Whip" snare, clunky kicks and 3-4 layers of drum beats.
This thread needs a bump
Old 3rd September 2018
  #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E-Irizarry View Post
After those cats paved the way, Eddie F schooled and brought Dave "Jam" Hall up under his wing. Let's not forget: Dave "Jam" Hall produced 75 percent of Mary J Blige's 1992 debut of "What's The 411?"....he also produced a little over half of Madonna's 1995 "Bedtime Stories" album, Horace Brown's unreleased debut at Uptown Records, but a couple of songs got picked up and selected for Horace Brown's self-titled 1996 debut at Motown..."Taste Your Love"..STILL THE BEST CUNNLINGUS ANTHEM EVER!

Eddie F and the Untouchbles (Kenny Smoove (went on to produce for Case and Changing Faces), Kenny Kornegay (produced Donell Jones remake of "Knocks Me Off My Feet"), Dave "Jam" Hall (I already listed some of his projects/accolades), Nevelle Hodge)...yeah Eddie F and the Untouchables were the best Hip-Hop-Soul producers since Full Force!!!

Then Dallas Austin brought Tim & Bob up underneath his wing. They produced the VERY FIRST Usher record in 1993 called "Call Me A Mack" from the Poetic Justice soundtrack (Usher sounds nothing like that now..take a listen if you can LOL!!!)...then Tim & Bob produced a few joints on Monica's 1995 album debut on "Miss Thing". Then Tim & Bob produced for artists like Soul For Real, Elusion, Jon B., JOE [Thomas], etc. And then made their big-arse comeback in 2004/2005 with Bobby Valentino's debut. They have been on fire since..producing hot sh*t for Ralph Tresvant ("My Angel" joint), Donell Jone's "I Gotta Be", "Feelin' You"...and four joints on Brian McKnight's new Ten album..Check them out..Tim & Bob and B. McKnight use the college-band kicks something awfully hot on those joints!!

Tim & Bob after breaking off from Dallas Austin, named their publishing company "Tymes 4 Flyte"..110-percent inspired by their favorite producers Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis.

Does anybody remember Vincert Herbert, Kiyamma Griffin (Faith Evan's first baby's daddy)/3 Boyz From Newark?? They produced Christopher Williams hit "Every Little Thing U Do"...never got the respect in crossing over, but they produced for Al B Sure too, Hi-Five (RIP Tony Thompson) and a few acts too.

And last but not least: Mike City produced some hot **** in the last few years. Remember "Heard It All Before" by Sunshine Anderson?? Yup he produced 90 percent of her 2000/ 2001 debut album....that album still gets spun on my computer at least once every other month (I listen to ten's of hundreds of albums all the time that's why). He also produced "I Wish" by Carl Thomas... a lot of good sh_t.

I like the joint he produced for Donell Jone's 2006 single "Spend The Night".

I went crazy, but these producers shaped R&B of the last 15 years to the utmost and are still "los subestimados" (underdogs) in the game!
Mike is sick as heck but what made u bring him up in a new jack thread. I adore him and just reordered sunshimes album again based of dont be mad off theosmosis jones sdtk
Old 4th September 2018
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creative69 View Post
Why is the net full of untruths this is not correct I'm afraid, stop making stuff up!
Teddy is on record stating he used Akai samplers throughout that era.
Old 4th September 2018
  #158
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This thread is hilarious.
I was around Ted and in the studio watching and learning for most of that era. (I'm talking from 129th street in St Nick Projects, Riverdale in the Bronx and even Virginia Beach).

Some of you are correct. Others, just running with internet stories.

Noteworthy tidbit: Just because Teddy may have said something on a show doesn't mean he's being 100% genuine about it. He's a good person, but sometimes he embellishes things to a fault in my opinion.

He definitely WAS influenced by Jam and Lewis, among many others: Listen to the chords on Debarge's I Like It, then listen to the chords on Teddys' Jam. But him crediting them or anybody else with the creation of New Jack Swing? You'd have to know him to understand that one.
*And it's not from a place of malice. It's just......Ted............. being nice guy Ted.*

New Jack Swing was born of NYC's style and grit in the 80's. Period. It's not about the actual triplet. Cause truth be told, Go-Go music (and its swing groove) pre-dates Jam & Lewis; and Teddy. Ever heard Doug E Fresh and Slick Rick's The Show? Who do you think produced that? Edward Riley, that's who. Those drums are the epitome of swing, right? That was 1985. Yet, the New Jack Swing didn't really pop off until '87-'88.

But why?

NJS is about incorporating the streets and the youth into R&B. He started it and the rest followed. He started sampling little pieces of stuff that was already party tested and true. Nobody was doing it (R&B) like him. He took modules and drum machines that were already around and made them a MUST for producers.
Yamaha TX81z: Lately Bass. Jaco Bass.
Roland D-50: Nylon Atmoshpere
Roland S-10: Orchestra Hits card
AKAI products galore: ASQ-10, MPC-60, S-950, S-1000
He was layering and compressing the drums HARDER than anyone at the time because he knew R&B wasn't ready to go down Hip Hop's road yet. That's why.

Saying it was around before him is like saying Hip Hop was around beforehand just because the funk and soul records existed before Herc, Grand Wizard Theodore and Flash did their thing with them. But that's a different conversation. LOL

Peace
Old 4th September 2018
  #159
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This thread has become freaking awesome. Great post.
Old 5th September 2018
  #160
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@ rosso I mostly agree with you, but NJS didn’t happen in a vacuum. There were prototypical versions of it before T Riley invented it.

I just see it as T Riley’s Hip-Hopicizing of R&B. He knew the writing was on the wall and that everything was going in the direction of Hip-Hop.

He essentially made Hip-Hop palatable for Urban radio. Since HH is essentially a framework and not a genre, it wasn’t too difficult for a musician like him, one who had been steeped in HH culture.

At the time, many Urban radio PDs were fighting hard against the rising tide of HH’s popularity. NJS was a happy medium between Urban radio’s sensibilities and HH’s growing popularity.

T Riley added much-needed melody to a mostly loop-based paradigm—the same ingredient that later helped propel Dr Dre and the Neptunes.
Old 5th September 2018
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lando Calrissian View Post
I wanna make New Jack Swing style beats. What do I need to start? I have no clue what type of drum machines and modules they used back then.
They used everything that was available. But all you need today is a sequencer that can do "hard" swing to re-create that.

My favorite ...a swing bass played on an Ensonq Mirage.

Old 5th September 2018
  #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by breakinrecords View Post
@ rosso I mostly agree with you, but NJS didn’t happen in a vacuum. There were prototypical versions of it before T Riley invented it.

Word? Post them up so we can hear them. Nobody was doing it quite like Teddy before he did it. As I said in my last post, NJS is not solely about the actual swing groove.

I just see it as T Riley’s Hip-Hopicizing of R&B. He knew the writing was on the wall and that everything was going in the direction of Hip-Hop.

I said this exactly in my last post.

He essentially made Hip-Hop palatable for Urban radio. Since HH is essentially a framework and not a genre, it wasn’t too difficult for a musician like him, one who had been steeped in HH culture.

Hip Hop isn't a genre???!!! Just the BIGGEST genre of music on the planet is all.

At the time, many Urban radio PDs were fighting hard against the rising tide of HH’s popularity. NJS was a happy medium between Urban radio’s sensibilities and HH’s growing popularity.

^^^This has a double truth. PDs knew their advertisers were slow to get on board and didn't want to lose them by forcing it. But they mostly knew how HOT it was in the street and most importantly.....with the young audience. They didn't just relent to Hip Hop out of niceness. The late night mix shows basically were busting the normal programming in the head. They HAD to concede eventually. And as we agree, Teddy's music (But not whatever predecessors people keep trying to credit) made it the best of both worlds. Facts.

T Riley added much-needed melody to a mostly loop-based paradigm—the same ingredient that later helped propel Dr Dre and the Neptunes.

That's purely subjective. Hip Hop isn't a genre of only one process. Run-DMC's "Sucker MCs" didn't need any melody at all. Neither did T-LaRock's "It's Yours". That doesn't mean we couldn't also appreciate Larry Smith's melodic keys on Whodini's "One Love." It's all about mood.

Peace
...
Old 5th September 2018
  #163
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@ rosso geezer thanks for sharing your insider insight.
Old 6th September 2018
  #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOUND BOMBING View Post
Lm. Anti feminist r n b artist... vince married tamar and is huge. In business. He did a lot with vasal benford too.
anti-feminist R&B artist? :-/
Old 7th September 2018
  #165
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"Nobody was doing it quite like Teddy before he did it. "

Notice I said, "prototypical". Correct: Riley brought his own flavor to music and changed music. I didn't say Riley copied anyone.

Again, NJS was essentially synth melodies and pads over sampled, Hip-Hop-style tracks (loops and chops). Very few R&B producers understood sampling or chose to use breakbeat samples, unlike Riley. Prior to this, there was some singing over Hip-Hop tracks, bust most of it was in the late 70s and early 80s.

Mantronix was doing protypical NJS a few years before Teddy Riley, for instance. No, his wasn't as modern or polished as T Riley's and it often sounded more House-like, but it was fairly close at times. [I wrote this before I noticed Mantronix mentioned in WikiPedia's NJS article.] There were others doing similar things in Brixton.

No, Hip-Hop isn't a genre. There are artists who "do" Hip-Hop music, but Hip-Hop is much older than "Hip-Hop culture". All Hip-Hop is is the looping, originally by a DJ, of a particular part of a recording (record). This was a DJ technique, likely developed by Grandmaster Flowers in the late 60s, long before Kool Herc was credited with it. All of the "Hip-Hop culture" nonsense is just from people who like to dramatize, play dress up and feel like they belong to something resembling a silly cult.

Hip-Hop is merely a musical framework. Teddy Riley expanded the Hip-Hop framework by mixing elements of various genres. Since Hip-Hop is merely an open framework, it can be added to most any genre, such as Rock, R&B, House or Country.

Larry Smith stuck to the keys because he hated sampling. He wasn't part of the Hip-Hop sampling culture. "One Love" is a borderline R&B song. Larry Smith and this song are rare exceptions of the time.

Even most synth-based Hip-Hop songs of the time were mostly confined to a few sets of loops, albeit loops without samples.

It's not subjective to say most Hip-Hop didn't have melodies during the respective periods of T Riley, Dr Dre and the Neptunes. The criticism musicians have always had against Hip-Hop producers is that most seemingly can't play an instrument. The Neptunes have music degrees; Riley and Dre play keys; etc.
Old 7th September 2018
  #166
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@ breakinrecords I don't disagree but school me on how Hip Hop isn't a genre and explain how the idea of "culture" is nonsense although I find it to be a circle jerk so maybe that's why it's nonsensical?
Old 7th September 2018
  #167
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The thing about Boogie and NJS that always stood out to me was how live a lot of it felt. More Boogie than anything, but a lot of those guys play live and dont quantize after, which I think really makes a difference. Plus you had a live bass player or a guy on keys playing bass and it just has so much feel that way.

I say this since the OP was “I want to make NJS beats”. In my mind, it’s a really good goal because it will up your musicality to learn to play these styles. It’s not something you can really draw into a grid and get the same feeling out of. You have to understand harmony past the diatonic major because there are some wicked chord subs and voicings that also make the music a lot more sophisticated at times. It’s great music to learn how to produce. And lets not forget how incredible and dynamic the vocals were on top of it all. Was listening to some old Bobby Brown yesterday and remembering how that dude had so much variety to his delivery. It just took the music to a whole new level.
Old 7th September 2018
  #168
Gear Head
 

Simple fm and vintage EP and analog keyboard sounds ,some old school stabs ,gated claps and snares ( or chopped up We will rock you and the big beat beak) quantize at 1/16th kicks and hats sometimes on 1/16th triplets , and sometimes use the roll from funky drummer/ psk etc as you percussion( mpcs maschine and reason got a function where you can silence the kicks an 2/4 snares to have the overall feeling of funky drummer and like break beats to simulate the swing but keep it in pocket. )
That's the basic ingredients for NJS
Old 7th September 2018
  #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by breakinrecords View Post
Again, NJS was essentially synth melodies and pads over sampled, Hip-Hop-style tracks (loops and chops). Very few R&B producers understood sampling or chose to use breakbeat samples, unlike Riley.
I said this already. It's not a debate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by breakinrecords View Post
Mantronix was doing protypical NJS a few years before Teddy Riley, for instance. No, his wasn't as modern or polished as T Riley's and it often sounded more House-like, but it was fairly close at times. [I wrote this before I noticed Mantronix mentioned in WikiPedia's NJS article.] There were others doing similar things in Brixton.
Post some examples of Mantronix songs you consider "prototypical" to NJS. I love Mantronix, but he kept his Hip Hop and Housey-type R&B in their separate lanes. That's not NJS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by breakinrecords View Post
All Hip-Hop is is the looping, originally by a DJ, of a particular part of a recording (record).
Hip Hop has evolved from simply rapping over a breakbeat since the early 80's.


Quote:
Originally Posted by breakinrecords View Post
This was a DJ technique, likely developed by Grandmaster Flowers in the late 60s, long before Kool Herc was credited with it. All of the "Hip-Hop culture" nonsense is just from people who like to dramatize, play dress up and feel like they belong to something resembling a silly cult.
Flowers will always be an unsung respected figure. But anyone who was actually around will tell you he spun Disco and did not, I repeat, DID NOT go back to back on breaks in the way credited to Herc. I expanded on this thought, but the mods felt it was too aggressive for some reason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by breakinrecords View Post
Larry Smith stuck to the keys because he hated sampling. He wasn't part of the Hip-Hop sampling culture.
"Sampling" wasn't even a thing yet when Larry Smith was at his peak. He was already an afterthought by the time that movement started. (Marley Marl era). Fans of the genre couldn't care less about someone making the claim to be "anti-sampling" once that style took off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by breakinrecords View Post
Larry Smith and this song are rare exceptions of the time.
Wrong. Larry Smith's style was THE sound of the time.
There wasn't a DJ in the tri-state area that didn't cut up "You Gotta Believe" to showcase their skills.
There wasn't a party or cookout where "The Bubble Bunch" wasn't played.
Chord changes are nice, but grooves are better. And it was Larry's bass that made Kurtis Blow's songs beloved in the Hip Hop community.

Quote:
Originally Posted by breakinrecords View Post
Even most synth-based Hip-Hop songs of the time were mostly confined to a few sets of loops, albeit loops without samples.
Statements like this are why I don't believe anyone outside of Hip Hop truly understands it enough to properly critique it. It's unfairly minimizing the time and energy it took to figure out the right grooves, sounds and other elements.
(I imagine grumpy jazz musicians sitting in a room in 1965, discussing the Beatles and saying, "All they're doing is......")
By that logic, any record ever made without a change and drum fills is a just a loop, and therefore Hip Hop by default. I don't think so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by breakinrecords View Post
It's not subjective to say most Hip-Hop didn't have melodies during the respective periods of T Riley, Dr Dre and the Neptunes. The criticism musicians have always had against Hip-Hop producers is that most seemingly can't play an instrument. The Neptunes have music degrees; Riley and Dre play keys; etc.
Hip Hop had tons of melodic songs that were hits in the streets, but maybe not available for consumption everywhere else.
What about the "TV" era of Hip Hop? Most people don't even know what that is because they weren't around and it's not on google as such. But that's what it was called.
Teddy jumped on that wave as well during that time in Hip Hop. Where do you think the synth line in "The Show" comes from?
The world may have caught on to The Fresh Prince after "Parents Don't Understand" but WE knew him for "Girls of the World." Where do you think the melody from that song comes from?
That was also Teddy's era, was it not?
I have many more examples, but not enough space on the page or the energy to type it all.

Peace
Old 11th September 2018
  #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosso geezer View Post
Who. Lied about what??
Old 11th September 2018
  #171
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time to clear the air with some sick dance moves



SUCH solid production on this track btw...
Old 12th September 2018
  #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosso geezer View Post
I said this already. It's not a debate.



Post some examples of Mantronix songs you consider "prototypical" to NJS. I love Mantronix, but he kept his Hip Hop and Housey-type R&B in their separate lanes. That's not NJS.



Hip Hop has evolved from simply rapping over a breakbeat since the early 80's.




Flowers will always be an unsung respected figure. But anyone who was actually around will tell you he spun Disco and did not, I repeat, DID NOT go back to back on breaks in the way credited to Herc. I expanded on this thought, but the mods felt it was too aggressive for some reason.



"Sampling" wasn't even a thing yet when Larry Smith was at his peak. He was already an afterthought by the time that movement started. (Marley Marl era). Fans of the genre couldn't care less about someone making the claim to be "anti-sampling" once that style took off.



Wrong. Larry Smith's style was THE sound of the time.
There wasn't a DJ in the tri-state area that didn't cut up "You Gotta Believe" to showcase their skills.
There wasn't a party or cookout where "The Bubble Bunch" wasn't played.
Chord changes are nice, but grooves are better. And it was Larry's bass that made Kurtis Blow's songs beloved in the Hip Hop community.



Statements like this are why I don't believe anyone outside of Hip Hop truly understands it enough to properly critique it. It's unfairly minimizing the time and energy it took to figure out the right grooves, sounds and other elements.
(I imagine grumpy jazz musicians sitting in a room in 1965, discussing the Beatles and saying, "All they're doing is......")
By that logic, any record ever made without a change and drum fills is a just a loop, and therefore Hip Hop by default. I don't think so.



Hip Hop had tons of melodic songs that were hits in the streets, but maybe not available for consumption everywhere else.
What about the "TV" era of Hip Hop? Most people don't even know what that is because they weren't around and it's not on google as such. But that's what it was called.
Teddy jumped on that wave as well during that time in Hip Hop. Where do you think the synth line in "The Show" comes from?
The world may have caught on to The Fresh Prince after "Parents Don't Understand" but WE knew him for "Girls of the World." Where do you think the melody from that song comes from?
That was also Teddy's era, was it not?
I have many more examples, but not enough space on the page or the energy to type it all.

Peace
You’re making insults, now. LOL

Anyone who lived during the 80s remembers themes from ‘Inspector Gadget’, ‘Hawaii 5-0’, ‘Young & The Restless’, ‘Pac-Man’, ‘Bat-Man’, etc. These were quick interpolations, not melodic sections.

Real melody in Hip-Hop has always been extremely rare, again. That’s why Dre, The Neptunes, L Smith (great point) and T Riley have stood out.

Playing a few chords and a pseudo-melody for 2-8 bars, with a possible alternate 2-8 bars and maybe some fills does not constitute a melodic song.

Just because a song has a few riffs and a few chords, it doesn’t mean it’s melodic. Very few Hip-Hop songs have had more changes than what would be in four or eight measures, with very rare exception.

You telling me I must be “outside” of Hip-Hop because I don’t agree with you won’t change anything.

Yes, Hip-Hop has been used by record labels to help dumb-down the listening public. It’s much less expensive to hire a kid to “make a beat in 20min on Fruity Loops” than it is to hire a real band.

That is why Rock is going the way of Jazz. Hip-Hop is less expensive to manufacture than Rock and real R&B/Soul, and Rock is less expensive than real Jazz.

The South, the Midwest and California were buying most Hip-Hop/R&B CDs. Where did Hip-Hop move to?
Old 14th September 2018
  #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by breakinrecords View Post
You’re making insults, now. LOL

Anyone who lived during the 80s remembers themes from ‘Inspector Gadget’, ‘Hawaii 5-0’, ‘Young & The Restless’, ‘Pac-Man’, ‘Bat-Man’, etc. These were quick interpolations, not melodic sections.

Real melody in Hip-Hop has always been extremely rare, again. That’s why Dre, The Neptunes, L Smith (great point) and T Riley have stood out.

Playing a few chords and a pseudo-melody for 2-8 bars, with a possible alternate 2-8 bars and maybe some fills does not constitute a melodic song.

Just because a song has a few riffs and a few chords, it doesn’t mean it’s melodic. Very few Hip-Hop songs have had more changes than what would be in four or eight measures, with very rare exception.

You telling me I must be “outside” of Hip-Hop because I don’t agree with you won’t change anything.

Yes, Hip-Hop has been used by record labels to help dumb-down the listening public. It’s much less expensive to hire a kid to “make a beat in 20min on Fruity Loops” than it is to hire a real band.

That is why Rock is going the way of Jazz. Hip-Hop is less expensive to manufacture than Rock and real R&B/Soul, and Rock is less expensive than real Jazz.

The South, the Midwest and California were buying most Hip-Hop/R&B CDs. Where did Hip-Hop move to?
Sorry you feel that way. It's not my intent.

Subjective.

Subjective.

Subjective.

Subjective.

It's not your disagreeing with my opinion that leads me to believe that you are an outsider to Hip Hop. Any opinion is welcomed by me. But in my experiences, anyone who is as dismissive of the production value of early Hip Hop is usually not immersed in it. Rather, they feel they can explain it away with ultra subjectivity. (Hint, hint).

Not pertinent.

Not pertinent.

Not pertinent. And really moving the goal posts.
Old 7th January 2019
  #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deplopcinema View Post
time to clear the air with some sick dance moves



SUCH solid production on this track btw...
It's absolute madness, i need to get the metallic sound in it (the one mixed with the bass)
Old 8th January 2019
  #175
I just know that it was pretty awesome of Tony Tone Toni (sorry if the order is wrong) to sample ice cube “you can new jack swiiiiiiiiing on my nuts”
Old 9th January 2019
  #176
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E-Irizarry's Avatar
Dude I brought up Mike City because if it weren't for NJS, Mike City would have only been producing Chi-Town-sounding EDM music...kinda like his latest work of art with Faith Evans (Source: YouTube)
Old 9th January 2019
  #177
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E-Irizarry's Avatar
That's correct.
I might sound like a paradox or a corny gimmick, but it isn't. You'll see.

Last edited by E-Irizarry; 10th January 2019 at 06:07 PM..
Old 9th January 2019
  #178
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Teddy played nice chords, nice tritones, but he wasn't hitting those superoctave chords like Jam & Lewis were doing. J&L need to revert to their mid-late 80s sound; its really missing in the game nowadays.
Old 10th January 2019
  #179
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@ E-Irizarry J&L have production on Peabo Bryson's latest album.

Last edited by boombapdame; 10th January 2019 at 09:04 PM..
Old 10th January 2019
  #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOUND BOMBING View Post
Lm. Anti feminist r n b artist... vince married tamar and is huge. In business. He did a lot with vasal benford too.
Vassal Benford's biggest run was with Jade 1992 "Don't Run Away". He has a good sound but very limited sounding at the same time.

The last song I liked that he produced was in 1994 for Atlantic Starr called "Everbody's Got Summer". It was a single, and I gave it a few spins in my Walkman at the time.
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