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Drums that brings the mix and makes me move Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 30th August 2007
  #1
Gear Nut
 

Drums that brings the mix and makes me move

... so I use FL Studio..I been doing hiphop for so many years and love FL.

Only thing I still miss is drums that simply brings the whole song and makes my nod me head. You all know what I'm talking about.

What's the technically reason of this? I mean what type of drums can do this effect? bass? midrange? highs? transients? compression?

I tried swing but I feel like my drum sounds simply can't hit right so I stopped messing with swing settings until I get them right.
What does an MPC do the drum sounds so they make you move?
I don't believe in MPC timing and things cuz I can put my drum hits anywhere in FL.

One thing I tried and worked to use a transient designer. It really made my drum loops more groovy. But I want to know whats that thing.

I'd thank if some pro'd help me.
Old 30th August 2007
  #2
Lives for gear
 
mix-it-well's Avatar
 

Sounds like you need fresher drum sounds.
Take a Kick ,mix it with crazy noises and layer the **** out of it.
Finished.

Gear really doesn't matter here.
I record my drum sounds with a nearly broken low-end mic and a cheap ass preamp ,**** still sounds dope (I like it dirty).
Old 30th August 2007
  #3
Gear Nut
 

Yeah good samples are very important.. But I have GIGs of drums so I may have a few quality ones.

But I always feel like the whole digital thing kills my music's soul. Though I think they can be made alive again somehow.
Old 30th August 2007
  #4
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ryst's Avatar
 

Compression can add excitement to drums if you time the release to the tempo of the song. It gives them movement that wasn't there before. Of course, hardware comps usually do this better than software.
Old 30th August 2007
  #5
Gear Maniac
 

its just rhythm man, that's all. it is not about sounds or an mpc.
Old 30th August 2007
  #6
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jbuehler's Avatar
 

I think he is talking about filters even if he doesn't know it yet.
Old 30th August 2007
  #7
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cynic one's Avatar
 

a lot of that head nod factor is how the drums work WITH the other elements of the track........specifically the bass in a lot of cases.

on top of that, ghost notes, variations, and multiple hits all help to get that "groove" going.

food for thought...
Old 30th August 2007
  #8
Lives for gear
 

Or some times simple rythems help..... think billie jean type drums...
Old 31st August 2007
  #9
Lives for gear
 

step 1. layering, mixing sounds for different attributes. My bass & snare are usually layered, atleast my bass. i may like the attack of one bass and find a similar sounding bass to use for decay, layer to taste. also try side chaining some key frequencies applicable to each drum w/ a gate & signal generator.

step 2. reamp. i go out and into fatso jr.(worth its weight in gold, maybe more since it dont weigh to much ) .. then back into pro tools.

as far as grooves, and swings.. thats all you. if you can't figure out the timing nothing else is going to get em right for you. just try to get em poppin and sounding really good. i almost never use swing and stick to the grid, i'll add variation through breaks and such just by playing around with the program once i got it going. just break out the pencil tool and start deleting **** until you get something that sounds right.

my .02 , peace!
Old 31st August 2007
  #10
Lives for gear
 
PettyCash's Avatar
 

Im not too sure as to how you put together your drum parts, but maybe what you need to do is experiment more with the drum samples you already have.

Try throwing in some more percussive elements into the beat, like bongos, or tom toms, and maybe even the eventual cow bell...

What you really gotta do is just get more into the feel of the groove, and throw in more variations and twists. This can be done in many ways, including the use of processing and effects, like compression and delays.

Take a moment and listen to some old tracks that have great drumming done on them, and see if those can inspire you to try something new.

Maybe it might even be time to get another sequencer program thats good with drums, sometimes it helps to put a new twist on how you do your work as well.thumbsup

Hopefully something I said just now will be able to help you out..
Old 31st August 2007
  #11
Lives for gear
 

different drum sounds will sound better doing certain rythms.. In other words, you can use a long 808 and a snap to do slower south style patterns, but those sounds wont move you doing a faster paced 4 on the floor rythms. I'll bet your problem is your trying to find a groove by flying drum samples, instead of just playing them. Alot of times, i'll find a kit (even if its not the sounds i'll ultimately use) and play kik/sn live to get the groove (i'll know it grooves because i dance while playing it) and then set the tempo up to match whatever bar felt the best. If its 114.5 bpms, so be it. Then that just gets looped, and drum sounds are replaced, but always with sounds that preserve what made the original sounds groove in the first place. If my original pattern was with a real heavy, fat kik, then i find the same TYPE of kik butg better.

And as always, tuning plays a big part.
Old 1st September 2007
  #12
Gear Nut
 

first of all thanks everybody for trying to help

most of the time I just don't believe that the problem is in my drum programming, cuz I just can imagine they can groove more. Plus I hear professional beats that have lot weaker drum ideas than my stuff but still groove better. timing is not an issue, cuz I can do any type of that (I mean In FL I can do it accurate) so that's why I think it's in the sound.
Old 1st September 2007
  #13
Gear Nut
 

listen to Rap Game's instrumental by D12 and tell me why it grooves like that. simple beat, simple drums, even a little lo-fi.


jbuehler, what do you mean? how can filter improve my groove?
Old 1st September 2007
  #14
Gear Addict
 
david1103's Avatar
 

dont know much about modern fruity loops, but hard quantized drums are not going to get you any groove other than kraftwerk

you need to be moving drums slightly back and forth to get a groove. also the accent (volume of the hit) is going to play a big part.

if you move the snare back it gets laid back, forward becomes urgent sounding.

modulation on the drum sounds... for example in battery you can make the pitch slightly up or down at random. trick is to hardly hear it... all these things together go towards a more human/organic sound

i am not a hip hop producer, but this stuff is for all electronic music...

CU
Old 1st September 2007
  #15
Gear Addict
 
david1103's Avatar
 

reg MPC... you want the midi groove templates that are around. these are taken from the hardware. think of them as a 'super swing' function... that will get you some of the groove you are after.
Old 3rd September 2007
  #16
Gear Nut
 

I got 3 or 4 of mpc templates, some of them are simple shuffle, but there are some better ones.

I know a lot about swing, I just want to know more about the drums.
Old 3rd September 2007
  #17
Lives for gear
 
PettyCash's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Straight View Post
I got 3 or 4 of mpc templates, some of them are simple shuffle, but there are some better ones.

I know a lot about swing, I just want to know more about the drums.
I guess when it comes down to it, you are just going to have to learn more about drums in general.
I was fortunate enough to have taken up drums before in my life, so I have a good insight on how things are suppose to groove together.
Sometimes with electronic music, it pays off to know how to play more instruments than just a piano. If you have experience playing any other instruments, when you work with electronic samples, you will have an ideal of how its suppose to sound in order to make it seem more alive and as natural as possible.

Sadly these days, kids coming up underneath all of us go straight for a motif, instead of reaching for a drum stick, or a flute.
Soon enough its gonna effect everything we hear being made out there, in genres like Hip Hop and maybe even R&B.
Old 3rd September 2007
  #18
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azwun25's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PettyCash View Post
Soon enough its gonna effect everything we hear being made out there, in genres like Hip Hop and maybe even R&B.
it already does unfortunately
Old 4th September 2007
  #19
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Kyle S's Avatar
 

set up some cheap mics and hit sticks on the table and your pant legs and drumagog your samples to that rythym.


anyone remember hit stiX! from the80s?!?! i still have mine.
Old 4th September 2007
  #20
Gear Maniac
 

I dont know for a fact, cause I skimmed thru some posts but damn, no one metioned it has more to do with the rythm of the PRODUCER, if YOU can't do anything with what you have I dont give a **** if timbo the neptunes and dre himself personally handed you their drum kits it isnt gonna make a difference if you dont know HOW to make the drums bang.


as a side note, you really need to mess with the mixer in FL, compress, eq etc,
dont know why but FL just seems "quiet" compared to other programs.


Try experimenting like everyone else said, but, if that doesnt work, try experimenting with another hobby
Old 4th September 2007
  #21
Lives for gear
 
Kyle S's Avatar
 

^^ i never could get fruity loops to slam like i wanted it to. always sounded sickly to me.
Old 4th September 2007
  #22
Gear Nut
 

come on guys stop this producer thing everybody knows that
Old 4th September 2007
  #23
Gear Nut
 

by the way thanks everybody for help


I'm talking about drums that brings and grooves a simple hard 16th quantized drum beat, with no shuffle.

All producer can program a drum beat like Akon's Locked Up but that **** grooves very nice.
Old 4th September 2007
  #24
Gear Addict
 
Raj Smoove's Avatar
SP-1200...

ive never been a fan of software or keyboard drums. they are always weak. for some reason though, they always sound better resampled through an mpc or sp. the sp is a very lo-fi sampler but that is the very thing that adds that grit and bang that i think ur looking for. a regular 808 kick sampled at regular speed and slowed down in an sp is just awesome. same for all these snare rolls u hear everywhere. listen to mannie fresh's drum sounds. 90% of his drums comes out the sp-1200. thats what gives them that character. it cant be touched for drums. dont get me wrong, im a big mpc fan and they do alot for sequencing and midi, but anytime i need that rattle and old school groove i reach for my sp. u can find em on ebay for round 1400.
Old 4th September 2007
  #25
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mix-it-well's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raj Smoove View Post
SP-1200...

ive never been a fan of software or keyboard drums. they are always weak.
Old 4th September 2007
  #26
Gear Nut
 

yeah Raj I got an S2000 for the same reason it also adds some punch to everything, the SP probably even better. some atmosphere thing or smth..


have you heard that plug (S-2100 maybe) that tries to recreate the SP1200 sound? what you think?
Old 4th September 2007
  #27
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nukmusic's Avatar
 

boys and girls, the keyword for today is:

Midivelocity

ya, one word...LOLheh
Old 4th September 2007
  #28
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musicl's Avatar
 

i know what you are looking for. Honestly try itl a real drummer. Get those real grooves that will make you nod your head. It's alive, it has that electric buzz, go and record some and you'll just feel it in your bones.
Old 5th September 2007
  #29
Lives for gear
 
irthwirm's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle S View Post
^^ i never could get fruity loops to slam like i wanted it to. always sounded sickly to me.
theres a setting that changes that. I think it's panning law or something random. I'm at work and i don't know it off the top of my head but when turned off it allows the sample to play more true i guess (louder). It defaults to on. I use it on and just through L2 on my master mix to maximize the loudness for a rough mix... final mix -----> ill do in pro tools
Old 5th September 2007
  #30
Registered User
 

Very Funny

Im not sure that I read one person mentioning the fact that the MPC gives out a harmonic distortion to the sound when going through circuitry. For example if you send a mpc through a board before it gets into your daw, well of coarse you may even hear some addition type of harmonics. It is not always the producers fault on how he is programing his beat even though that is one aspect of getting the right sound. Of coarse stacking the right type of kicks and the right type of snares together does make a big differnce. There is major thing to take into consideration which is what type of eq's and compressors you use in your mix. The reason I know this is because I use to be the guy wondering why did the mpc sound bigger and badder than my drums sounds. I use all vst and sampler instruments and I must say that now I have guys that have mpc's asking me how did I get my drums so big.

I'll give you one scenario of what I do. I add a compression track to just about every drum sound there is my mix which makes it sound very thick and you more so hear the thickness from the compression. Well then I mix it with the originals and with the 2 playing (original kick and compress kick) they sound bigger. This is just one of many tricks.

Remember the more tracks you have in a mix in the box everything starts to sound thinner so its all about setting up your busses correctly. Sometimes going out to external summing busses help out alot.

Matter a fact go ahead and convert all your tracks to waves then send it into a session ready for mixing then start experimenting with your eq's and compressors and you will start to hear a world of differnce.
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