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Ok, I'm getting some $$ need advice!!! Audio Interfaces
Old 26th August 2007
  #1
Gear Head
 
15YO's Avatar
 

Ok, I'm getting some $$ need advice!!!

Well,
I'm about to get some more $$$ from this album my clients are releasing.
I need some advice one a few things.

I've been looking in to a couple things that would improve my overall studio quality. (mix/recording/production/etc.)

Can anybody tell me a few things about the following?

-BBE Sonic Maximizers
-SRS WOW technology
-Sterling Audio Mics
-KRK RP-10 Sub
-PreSonus Audio Interfaces

I want to know what would be the best addition to my current set-up.
I am running my own recording studio and I ALSO produce/compose songs for artists.

(THIS IS MY CURRENT SET-UP)
-1.66 GHz Duo-Core Intel-Based Mac mini
-Roland Juno-G Synth/Work.
-Yamaha MOTIF XS6 Synth/Work.
-88 Key Casio (midi control)
-(2) KRK RP-5 Monitors
-Sony Subwoofer
-MBOX
-All Mogami/Monster Cables
-Behringer 4 Channel Mixer
-MXL 9000 Condensor Mic
-Garageband
-ProTools LE
-Cubase AI
-Reason 3.0
Old 26th August 2007
  #2
Lives for gear
 
Tibbon's Avatar
Don't get a BBE. It's generally a poor idea to use an exciter like that on most studio stuff. Too easily abused/overused. Don't know much about the WOW but it's likely similar.

I have no experience with sterling mics, but there's possible better values to build up your mic close.

and presonus interfaces work. That doesn't mean they sound good. The Macke 400F is a decently priced interface and does a ton (and sounds ok for the price). It won't sound any better than your mbox. Stay with the mbox or get a different digi interface for now.

Congrats on doing this at 15. At 15 I was still slaving a midi sequencer to tape... and poorly so.
Old 27th August 2007
  #3
Gear Maniac
 
jb4play's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 15YO View Post
Well,
I'm about to get some more $$$ from this album my clients are releasing.
I need some advice one a few things.

I've been looking in to a couple things that would improve my overall studio quality. (mix/recording/production/etc.)

Can anybody tell me a few things about the following?

-BBE Sonic Maximizers
-SRS WOW technology
-Sterling Audio Mics
-KRK RP-10 Sub
-PreSonus Audio Interfaces

I want to know what would be the best addition to my current set-up.
I am running my own recording studio and I ALSO produce/compose songs for artists.

(THIS IS MY CURRENT SET-UP)
-1.66 GHz Duo-Core Intel-Based Mac mini
-Roland Juno-G Synth/Work.
-Yamaha MOTIF XS6 Synth/Work.
-88 Key Casio (midi control)
-(2) KRK RP-5 Monitors
-Sony Subwoofer
-MBOX
-All Mogami/Monster Cables
-Behringer 4 Channel Mixer
-MXL 9000 Condensor Mic
-Garageband
-ProTools LE
-Cubase AI
-Reason 3.0
I don't know about overall studio quality, maybe using that extra $$$ on copyrights, getting your legal business in order (llc, trademark, etc...), and books about the industry or music would help as well.
Old 27th August 2007
  #4
Lives for gear
 
Ken Lewis's Avatar
use the search function. These topics have been beaten to death
Old 27th August 2007
  #5
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 15YO View Post
Well,
I'm about to get some more $$$ from this album my clients are releasing.
I need some advice one a few things.

I've been looking in to a couple things that would improve my overall studio quality. (mix/recording/production/etc.)

Can anybody tell me a few things about the following?

-BBE Sonic Maximizers
-SRS WOW technology
-Sterling Audio Mics
-KRK RP-10 Sub
-PreSonus Audio Interfaces

I want to know what would be the best addition to my current set-up.
I am running my own recording studio and I ALSO produce/compose songs for artists.

(THIS IS MY CURRENT SET-UP)
-1.66 GHz Duo-Core Intel-Based Mac mini
-Roland Juno-G Synth/Work.
-Yamaha MOTIF XS6 Synth/Work.
-88 Key Casio (midi control)
-(2) KRK RP-5 Monitors
-Sony Subwoofer
-MBOX
-All Mogami/Monster Cables
-Behringer 4 Channel Mixer
-MXL 9000 Condensor Mic
-Garageband
-ProTools LE
-Cubase AI
-Reason 3.0
BBE Sonic Maximizers - ****
SRS WOW technology - ****

Please don't use those!
Old 27th August 2007
  #6
Lives for gear
 
Tibbon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jb4play View Post
I don't know about overall studio quality, maybe using that extra $$$ on copyrights, getting your legal business in order (llc, trademark, etc...), and books about the industry or music would help as well.
That makes zero sense. First of all a 15 year old doesn't have that much liability. He's not taking on debt, and likely not making enough money to pay **** for taxes. He's a kid in his bedroom basically. The IRS does not care. Seriously. For the $100 he might owe him from this, it's not worth their time. An LLC for a kid's studio at his home? Are you serious? That's like telling my grandmother to register a C-Class corporation in Delaware for knitting blankets and selling them to neighbors. Yes, I know what I'm talking about. Yes I've incorporated things before. Even an SBA advisor wouldn't tell you to do that. He'd tell you at most to go get a DBA + EIN.

Trademark? What industry is this? Big Business medicine? I don't know a single studio that cares that much about trademark to start suing people over it. Yes, in the US trademarks/names are something that you just start using, and then sue other people to defend them. You can't just go registering a ton of stuff. It's by use. Again man, this kid is 15. I don't think that George Martin even is worried about trademarking his name/studio.

I'm not sure why a studio owner would copyright things of his clients. That seems to be silly. I worked in a studio for years and never copyrighted anything- namely because I didn't own the clients work?

Even if he's producing stuff and writing his own stuff- wasting a ton of money on copyrighting stuff is just stupid. You've clearly read too many horror stories about copyright, and read too many books that claim that everyone will get screwed if they don't pay the man their registration. If you're really worried, then it's prudent once a year to send in a 'collection' and register that of everything you've done that year. No need to register individual tracks and all. It's cheaper and just as safe. Seriously.


The kid needs to keep doing what he's doing. Learn about music. Make some mistakes. Find a mentor, and keep trying. I'm all about the business stuff believe me, but that's really crappy advice. The business stuff will come later.

The first thing the Beatles did was write songs they didn't say, "Ok, let's write down our partnership agreement, file as an LLC, get a DBA/EIN, get all visas to perform in countries, register with BMI, find a record company, get a manager, get a tour manager, make contracts for touring, write riders, and cash the check.... then we'll make some music". Umm, they made music, and that stuff got figured out later.
Old 28th August 2007
  #7
Gear Head
 
15YO's Avatar
 

Thanks for the tips on the audio exciters, wasn't too sure on that part.
I guess these are a few things I have to experiment with myself.

As far as copyrights and books goes, I already got 2 large shelves full of books about music business and music theory, so don't worry about it.
I'm getting myself educated.

And I have a few copyrights on some of my more expensive works.
As hard as it may be to believe, I have heard my work on somebody else's site.
So, copyrights actually are something important to my business at the time.

I just finished producing a big underground album for a local rap group so I am getting my production label name trademarked this next month before we start pressing copies.

I don't have to worry about all the taxes & stuff yet so that's good.

I already do have a mentor who helps me decide on stuff about my business. (Former member of the band 'Kumbia Kings' and upcoming hip-hop/r&b producer, Chris Dominguez.)
Old 28th August 2007
  #8
Lives for gear
[quote=15YO;1460330]
I've been looking in to a couple things that would improve my overall studio quality. (mix/recording/production/etc.)

ACOUSTIC TREATMENT!!!!!! I see so many people with the coolest, best, most expensive, killer sounding pieces of equipment. And they have them in the worst acoustic environments. Who cares how cool your gear is if you can't even hear accurately what the f*ck it's doing? How the heck are you going to eq something, or compress it, or make that dope-ass keyboard sound, if your room is comprimising the sound?? So your first priority after having the basics in gear is the treat the room with 703 fiberglass product.
Old 28th August 2007
  #9
Lives for gear
 
Tibbon's Avatar
Chris,

At the same time i've seen way too many over-dampened studios. You aren't trying to make an anechoic chamber here. The best room I ever had was pretty large, relatively symetrical, with little/no treatment on the walls, wood floors, and my desk/speakers 5-6 feet from any wall. The walls weren't totally straight either and there were a good many angles. I had some diffusion on the walls, but no fuzz.

No matter what Auralex tells you, a dead room isn't a good sounding room. T60 should not = zero.
Old 28th August 2007
  #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by 15YO View Post
-Behringer 4 Channel Mixer
I would first get that out of the chain, I you run anything through it? If you just use to monitor then I guess that's ok.

Also yes if you're running a sub, then room treatment primarily Bass Trap are very important. Especially if you doing any mixing? GIK Traps are probably the best on price and VFM for those. Then I would look at the Mic / Mic Pre game, there's plenty advice in this forum on that topic.

Also not that we're being nosy but when you post this kind of thread you need to specify budget (and maybe limits on each item you're willing to spend)
Old 28th August 2007
  #11
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tibbon View Post
Chris,

At the same time i've seen way too many over-dampened studios. You aren't trying to make an anechoic chamber here. The best room I ever had was pretty large, relatively symetrical, with little/no treatment on the walls, wood floors, and my desk/speakers 5-6 feet from any wall. The walls weren't totally straight either and there were a good many angles. I had some diffusion on the walls, but no fuzz.

No matter what Auralex tells you, a dead room isn't a good sounding room. T60 should not = zero.
Who said anything about making a dead room? I mean a properly treated room and I think I specifically said to do absorption with 703 or a similar product, NOT that Auralex junk (overpriced and doesn't work well at all). Looking at the picture, it looks like a small rectangular room with zero treatment of any kind - that CAN'T sound good. And the speakers are right up agains the wall (probably for lack of space). The fact that he mentioned getting a sub-woofer is a red flag that he is probably having bass problems (probably standing waves cancelling) and bass problems are pretty much standard for a small rectangular room. Generally, for any rectangular room you are going to need bass trapping and then you will typically want to treat the first reflection points. After that it's to taste and deal with other specific problems (flutter echos, and whatnot). I didn't mention diffusors because the room looks really small and difussion doesn't work so well in tiny rooms.

Anyway, I think PROPERLY treating the room will make his stuff sound better (because he'll now be able to make good decisions) than any of the stuff he listed, or even all of it combined for that matter.

For some stupid reason dealing with the acoustics is always the LAST thing people think of. I was guilty of it myself! But really, once you have the basics to make music, creating a space where you can actually hear what you are doing with some kind of accuracy should really be a priority.
Old 28th August 2007
  #12
Lives for gear
 
Tibbon's Avatar
Chris, you're right you didn't say anything over overdoing a room and I apologize for implying such. I just know that when a lot of people read to 'treat a room' they go to Auralex's website which tells them to cover 80% of the walls with fuzz, etc.. Or they go to Guitar Center and get sold on more than they need. I have seen sooo many photos of people's vocal booths and main control rooms that are just nothing but fuzz on the walls. Just wanted to make sure he knew NOT to do that.

Bass traps. Not Subwoofers.
Old 29th August 2007
  #13
Gear Head
 
15YO's Avatar
 

Yes, bass IS a major problem for my mix. That's why I don't really use it when I'm trying to mix. Only when I'm just laying down drums to the sequencer or when I'm trying to get a large sound for when I'm jammin out.
The monitors being close to the wall is just because of lack of room.
I have a small square room in the corner of my house. (yea, it REALLLYYY SUCCCKKKKSSSS for sound quality.)
I've been to acoustically treated studios and sound halls and there is definitely a HUGE difference between that and my place.
So I know what I'm looking for.

and about the mixer..
I do only use it for monitoring.
But I do my master mix on my AKG k240's.

My budget will be around $2,600 or $2,700 for those of you who are curious.

but as far as I can tell, sound treatment would be the best possible route for me to go.
right?

I'm guessing foam placed in hangable, placement friendly frames would work.
Do y'all think so?
Old 29th August 2007
  #14
Gear Maniac
 
jb4play's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tibbon View Post
That makes zero sense. First of all a 15 year old doesn't have that much liability. He's not taking on debt, and likely not making enough money to pay **** for taxes. He's a kid in his bedroom basically. The IRS does not care. Seriously. For the $100 he might owe him from this, it's not worth their time. An LLC for a kid's studio at his home? Are you serious? That's like telling my grandmother to register a C-Class corporation in Delaware for knitting blankets and selling them to neighbors. Yes, I know what I'm talking about. Yes I've incorporated things before. Even an SBA advisor wouldn't tell you to do that. He'd tell you at most to go get a DBA + EIN.

Trademark? What industry is this? Big Business medicine? I don't know a single studio that cares that much about trademark to start suing people over it. Yes, in the US trademarks/names are something that you just start using, and then sue other people to defend them. You can't just go registering a ton of stuff. It's by use. Again man, this kid is 15. I don't think that George Martin even is worried about trademarking his name/studio.

I'm not sure why a studio owner would copyright things of his clients. That seems to be silly. I worked in a studio for years and never copyrighted anything- namely because I didn't own the clients work?

Even if he's producing stuff and writing his own stuff- wasting a ton of money on copyrighting stuff is just stupid. You've clearly read too many horror stories about copyright, and read too many books that claim that everyone will get screwed if they don't pay the man their registration. If you're really worried, then it's prudent once a year to send in a 'collection' and register that of everything you've done that year. No need to register individual tracks and all. It's cheaper and just as safe. Seriously.


The kid needs to keep doing what he's doing. Learn about music. Make some mistakes. Find a mentor, and keep trying. I'm all about the business stuff believe me, but that's really crappy advice. The business stuff will come later.

The first thing the Beatles did was write songs they didn't say, "Ok, let's write down our partnership agreement, file as an LLC, get a DBA/EIN, get all visas to perform in countries, register with BMI, find a record company, get a manager, get a tour manager, make contracts for touring, write riders, and cash the check.... then we'll make some music". Umm, they made music, and that stuff got figured out later.
Thanks for your paragraph and opinions. I still stand by my advice. Good luck with your decision original thread starter. Now... back to watching The Big Lebowski on the flat screen...
Old 29th August 2007
  #15
Gear Head
 

I know that I own the RP8's and the RP10s sub. Until I added the sub, I didn't realize how much bass I was adding with the baseline and kick drum. I don't know much about the rest but the rokit rp10s sub is almost a must if you have just the rp5's, 6's, or 8's. I would get the 8's as well. The best thing about the rp10s is the built in crossover that separates the mids and highs for your other monitors and keeps the bass for itself.

Johnny R. @ Mixx-Breed Productionz
Old 29th August 2007
  #16
Gear Head
 
15YO's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixed_Breed View Post
I know that I own the RP8's and the RP10s sub. Until I added the sub, I didn't realize how much bass I was adding with the baseline and kick drum. I don't know much about the rest but the rokit rp10s sub is almost a must if you have just the rp5's, 6's, or 8's. I would get the 8's as well. The best thing about the rp10s is the built in crossover that separates the mids and highs for your other monitors and keeps the bass for itself.

Johnny R. @ Mixx-Breed Productionz
thanks.
Old 29th August 2007
  #17
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by 15YO View Post
Yes, bass IS a major problem for my mix. That's why I don't really use it when I'm trying to mix. Only when I'm just laying down drums to the sequencer or when I'm trying to get a large sound for when I'm jammin out.
The monitors being close to the wall is just because of lack of room.
I have a small square room in the corner of my house. (yea, it REALLLYYY SUCCCKKKKSSSS for sound quality.)
I've been to acoustically treated studios and sound halls and there is definitely a HUGE difference between that and my place.
So I know what I'm looking for.

and about the mixer..
I do only use it for monitoring.
But I do my master mix on my AKG k240's.

My budget will be around $2,600 or $2,700 for those of you who are curious.

but as far as I can tell, sound treatment would be the best possible route for me to go.
right?

I'm guessing foam placed in hangable, placement friendly frames would work.
Do y'all think so?
Well, you want to avoid "foam" or anything similar to Auralex as much as possible. it's overpriced and doesn't really work well at all. Especially their bass traps - they are completely useless. What you want is to build bass traps and absorbers out of rigid fiberglass like Owens Corning 703. It's cheaper than foam and works MUCH MUCH MUCH better. To give you an idea, my mix room is about 15x11ft and I treated the entire room including really thick (6") bass traps for about $800 total materials cost. So you will have plenty of money left over to play with.

Having a square room is the absolute worst shape, so you will really need a lot of bass trapping. As much as you can afford/fit. All four corners from floor to ceiling for sure. Then you want to do the first reflection points on the side walls and the ceiling (if you stick a mirror on the wall, the point where you see your speakers is the first reflection point). You probably won't need more than that.

Ethan and Glenn both specialize in acoustic products and are VERY helpful (they gave me some good advice!). They also both sell great prefab acoustic products if you don't want to DIY. But honestly, the DIY stuff is not difficult, just time consuming. And yes, if you build them on simple frames (I used 1x2 pine for the frames) then you can easily take them with you when you move out of the house!

Once you treat your room you will be amazed at how much easier it is to get good sounds. And you won't have to mix on headphones anymore!!!

Everything you ever would need to know about DIY acoustic treatment can be found in these three links:

Acoustic Treatment and Design for Recording Studios and Listening Rooms
GIK Acoustics - Education
YouTube - How to make a Bass Trap Acoustic Panel (Tutorial) (although there are numerous variations on this design).

And maybe Ethan or Glenn will chime in here with some advice?

Paging Ethan and Glenn... Paging Ethan and Glenn....
Old 29th August 2007
  #18
Lives for gear
 
PettyCash's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixed_Breed View Post
I know that I own the RP8's and the RP10s sub. Until I added the sub, I didn't realize how much bass I was adding with the baseline and kick drum. I don't know much about the rest but the rokit rp10s sub is almost a must if you have just the rp5's, 6's, or 8's. I would get the 8's as well. The best thing about the rp10s is the built in crossover that separates the mids and highs for your other monitors and keeps the bass for itself.

Johnny R. @ Mixx-Breed Productionz
If you are going to do a satelite/sub setup like that, it makes more sense to go with a 5 or 6 inch woofer, and then add in your sub of choice.

The mid range will sound better on the 5 or 6 inch, than it would on the extended response 8 inch version.

For how small his room seems to be, the smaller monitors are a better ideal anyway, bigger monitors need more room to work in order for you to actually take better advantage of them, especially if you dont have proper acoustic treatment in place.

You got the RP 5's, no need to upgrade from those, just get the sub and you should be good to go. Remember the bass trapping though...
Old 29th August 2007
  #19
Gear Maniac
 
Tabnetic's Avatar
i think you should think about your workflow primarily. what are the things that make you uncomfortable/are tedious about the way you work now?

what would make things faster and easier?

and the second part of this is:

what will help you become a better artist?

i think that sound treatment is a good idea...it's not "fun" to buy, but it will enable you to hear what your music sounds like in a more precise way, and this will in turn allow you to evaluate your own sound...or even develop your own sound more.

build the bass traps yourself. its easy and you get to think about why and how these things work and enhance your sound. besides appreciating them more, you will begin to be able to identify frequency better and perhaps even be more creative.


i'd say hang on to the rest of your money for now. once you really NEED something you'll know it and the advice you ask will be more specific to your workflow and knowing what you are certain is going to bring you to the next level.

best of luck to you

T
Old 29th August 2007
  #20
Gear Guru
 
Glenn Kuras's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris carter View Post
Well, you want to avoid "foam" or anything similar to Auralex as much as possible. it's overpriced and doesn't really work well at all. Especially their bass traps - they are completely useless. What you want is to build bass traps and absorbers out of rigid fiberglass like Owens Corning 703. It's cheaper than foam and works MUCH MUCH MUCH better. To give you an idea, my mix room is about 15x11ft and I treated the entire room including really thick (6") bass traps for about $800 total materials cost. So you will have plenty of money left over to play with.

Having a square room is the absolute worst shape, so you will really need a lot of bass trapping. As much as you can afford/fit. All four corners from floor to ceiling for sure. Then you want to do the first reflection points on the side walls and the ceiling (if you stick a mirror on the wall, the point where you see your speakers is the first reflection point). You probably won't need more than that.

Ethan and Glenn both specialize in acoustic products and are VERY helpful (they gave me some good advice!). They also both sell great prefab acoustic products if you don't want to DIY. But honestly, the DIY stuff is not difficult, just time consuming. And yes, if you build them on simple frames (I used 1x2 pine for the frames) then you can easily take them with you when you move out of the house!

Once you treat your room you will be amazed at how much easier it is to get good sounds. And you won't have to mix on headphones anymore!!!

Everything you ever would need to know about DIY acoustic treatment can be found in these three links:

Acoustic Treatment and Design for Recording Studios and Listening Rooms
GIK Acoustics - Education

And maybe Ethan or Glenn will chime in here with some advice?

Paging Ethan and Glenn... Paging Ethan and Glenn....
I am here!!!!!!!!heh

I think you pretty much covered it. Just straddle as many corners as possible and also put panels on first reflections. Yes a squ room is going to be pretty hard to do, but can be done with some thought and planning.

Glenn
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