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I want to go Pro Tools but I am not sure which way to go please help Audio Interfaces
Old 25th August 2007
  #1
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I want to go Pro Tools but I am not sure which way to go please help

I am looking to track my work into pro tools. And maybe do some possible sequencing. I am not sure if Mpowered or LE would be the best option for me. I make beats and remixes. I would plan to do some midi editing inside of Pro tools but not a lot. Right now my hardware synths include an Ensoniq ESQ1 and a Roland Juno 2. I am planning on adding a hardware sampler (still deciding on what I want) to the mix and I also plan to use Reason along with this from time to time. I may also add a triton or motif but I am not sure if I want to do that as of right now. I am building my rig for the future so Id like to keep that in mind. My pc specs are Celeron D 2.67ghz processor with 1 gig of ram. I am running windows xp and probabaly will for a while. I dont plan on buying a new pc anytime soon because I just bought this one a year ago. I have a audio interface that is compatible with Mpowered at the moment but I want to upgrade that. I don't know how much better a mbox would be than what I currently have however. I feel a 003 may be out of my budget tho. Any suggestions?
Old 25th August 2007
  #2
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Well if you want midi then the Mbox is out of the question because it doesn't have midi but the new Mbox2Pro does.

I've heard the Pre's aren't as good on it as the focusrite pre's on the mbox 1, and you didn't mention if you had your own Preamp, but from what I've heard the difference isn't really that great.

I always prefer Digi hardware over Maudio for performance, so my recommendation is the MBox2Pro.
Old 25th August 2007
  #3
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the original mboxes don't have midi the mbox 2 does have midi. to be honest tho i dont even use the midi inputs on my soundcard i have two uno cables that go usb to midi that are more reliable than whats on my m audio interface thanks for the feedback. I don't have a real need for the preamps either. Why a mbox pro over the original in this case?
Old 25th August 2007
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Celeron procesors are not recommended by Digi.
Old 25th August 2007
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raw-Tracks View Post
Celeron procesors are not recommended by Digi.
do they specifically say they dont recommend them or is it just not on their recommendation page?
Old 25th August 2007
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xabiton View Post
I am looking to track my work into pro tools. And maybe do some possible sequencing. I am not sure if Mpowered or LE would be the best option for me. I make beats and remixes. I would plan to do some midi editing inside of Pro tools but not a lot. Right now my hardware synths include an Ensoniq ESQ1 and a Roland Juno 2. I am planning on adding a hardware sampler (still deciding on what I want) to the mix and I also plan to use Reason along with this from time to time. I may also add a triton or motif but I am not sure if I want to do that as of right now. I am building my rig for the future so Id like to keep that in mind. My pc specs are Celeron D 2.67ghz processor with 1 gig of ram. I am running windows xp and probabaly will for a while. I dont plan on buying a new pc anytime soon because I just bought this one a year ago. I have a audio interface that is compatible with Mpowered at the moment but I want to upgrade that. I don't know how much better a mbox would be than what I currently have however. I feel a 003 may be out of my budget tho. Any suggestions?
How much better an Mbox would be depends on how good your current M-Audio card is. M-Powered and PT LE are basically the same. M-Powered is PT LE for M-Audio cards. So its all gonna depend on whether or not the specs of the Mbox are a clear upgrade over your current interface, and ofcouse if the Mbox would be better for your needs.heh
Old 25th August 2007
  #7
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They specifically don't recommend Celerons.
Digidesign | Support | Pro Tools LE 7.3 - Windows XP Desktop Systems

Not Supported

* Motherboards containing SiS (Silicon Integrated Systems) chipsets
* AMD Sempron processors or Intel Celeron processors
* Intel Pentium III and older Intel processors
* AMD K6, K6-2 or K6-III, K7 processors
Old 25th August 2007
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PettyCash View Post
M-Powered and PT LE are basically the same.
I had M-Powered for a year and a half and after spending time tracking with my buddy I got a Digi 003 so I could have LE.

The reason for my change may seem small at first but it actually is HUGE if you record a lot and use a lot of softsynths and plugs.....It is LOW LATENCY MONITORING.

This basically means that no matter what your buffer settings are, the vocalist will always hear their voice without any delay. Basically the signal doesn't even go into the computer, it gets mixed with the beat and fed back into the headphone signal out of the box. Of course this can be done with a small side mixer but I wanted a portable systm with a very simple and clean signal chain.

So if you plan on doing a lot of recording and have an external pre and/or compressor, than this setup is awesome. One small drawback, low latency monitoring disables the plug ins on the recording track so you can't have the headphone mix playing a wet mix of the live vocal and say a Waves eq or something but it works great for me because I use external gear for my vocals for everything but EQ and EQ can come later after the session. Just remember you can use plug ins after you are done recording, just not while you are recording.

So as a summary, if you plan on doing a **** ton of recording like me; I record my own bass playing, guitar tracks, drum hits et cetera for beats and I record rappers all the time too, YOU WANT LOW LATENCY MONITORING.

If you take my advice you won't regret it. This is the reason that M-Powered blows.

As far as the M-Box is concerned, while shopping for those I listened to them versus the 003 and there was no comparison. The new Digi 003s sound REALLY damn good compared to the 003. They are very musical. Furthermore the expandability of the 003 for more pres, adats, routing, and all that is FAR BEYOND any Mbox.

If I was going down your path and looking into Pro Tools and planning on getting pretty serious, than I would seriously consider saving some money and getting and 003r. It will be very useful and I am sure it will retain most of its value for quite some time.

I researched all of this and used M-Powered with 4 different interfaces, listened to the pres and ultimately ended up spending more money than I wanted but I am VERY happy.

As far as you computer specs.....they may not be right but who knows. Do you have a buddy that has an Mbox and you could install LE and take it for a test run? I would do that before I spent any money just to be safe. Get it installed, open the Computer Usage window, and make like 16 ghost tracks, arm them and hit record. See how high the marker goes and how steady it is.

Hope this helps!
Old 25th August 2007
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PettyCash View Post
How much better an Mbox would be depends on how good your current M-Audio card is. M-Powered and PT LE are basically the same. M-Powered is PT LE for M-Audio cards. So its all gonna depend on whether or not the specs of the Mbox are a clear upgrade over your current interface, and ofcouse if the Mbox would be better for your needs.heh
the firewire audiophile 2496. it isnt bad but it isnt great either. I had a 1212m which sounded better but went back to the audiophile because it was easier for me to use.
Old 25th August 2007
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuehler View Post
I had M-Powered for a year and a half and after spending time tracking with my buddy I got a Digi 003 so I could have LE.

The reason for my change may seem small at first but it actually is HUGE if you record a lot and use a lot of softsynths and plugs.....It is LOW LATENCY MONITORING.

This basically means that no matter what your buffer settings are, the vocalist will always hear their voice without any delay. Basically the signal doesn't even go into the computer, it gets mixed with the beat and fed back into the headphone signal out of the box. Of course this can be done with a small side mixer but I wanted a portable systm with a very simple and clean signal chain.

So if you plan on doing a lot of recording and have an external pre and/or compressor, than this setup is awesome. One small drawback, low latency monitoring disables the plug ins on the recording track so you can't have the headphone mix playing a wet mix of the live vocal and say a Waves eq or something but it works great for me because I use external gear for my vocals for everything but EQ and EQ can come later after the session. Just remember you can use plug ins after you are done recording, just not while you are recording.

So as a summary, if you plan on doing a **** ton of recording like me; I record my own bass playing, guitar tracks, drum hits et cetera for beats and I record rappers all the time too, YOU WANT LOW LATENCY MONITORING.

If you take my advice you won't regret it. This is the reason that M-Powered blows.

As far as the M-Box is concerned, while shopping for those I listened to them versus the 003 and there was no comparison. The new Digi 003s sound REALLY damn good compared to the 003. They are very musical. Furthermore the expandability of the 003 for more pres, adats, routing, and all that is FAR BEYOND any Mbox.

If I was going down your path and looking into Pro Tools and planning on getting pretty serious, than I would seriously consider saving some money and getting and 003r. It will be very useful and I am sure it will retain most of its value for quite some time.

I researched all of this and used M-Powered with 4 different interfaces, listened to the pres and ultimately ended up spending more money than I wanted but I am VERY happy.

As far as you computer specs.....they may not be right but who knows. Do you have a buddy that has an Mbox and you could install LE and take it for a test run? I would do that before I spent any money just to be safe. Get it installed, open the Computer Usage window, and make like 16 ghost tracks, arm them and hit record. See how high the marker goes and how steady it is.

Hope this helps!
i wish i had a friend with pro tools. most of my friends use AA, Cool Edit, or Acid to record vocals or they go to a professional studio. I am not looking to do much vocal work. Really its make beats and remixes. Thanks for the advice. I may hold off until I have the cash to get a 002 or 003 I was already thinking about that anyway. I just know I have a good list of things I'd like to add. Perhaps I may just wait and add PT until the very end. LE seems a lot cheaper also since I want to update my interface I just don't know how much of an improvement a mbox would be to a $200 firewire interface
Old 25th August 2007
  #11
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Definitely don't get Pro Tools on a Celeron machine. Go with the Digidesign guidelines, you will save yourself a great amount of pain if you do. And if you think that a computer not tested will only give you a little less tracks then think again, there's a good chance you won't even see the Pro Tools screen because of all error messages. Pro Tools is horrible that way. Check out the DUC, there's a HUGE thread there with recomendations for what PC to use.
Old 26th August 2007
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuehler View Post
I had M-Powered for a year and a half and after spending time tracking with my buddy I got a Digi 003 so I could have LE.

The reason for my change may seem small at first but it actually is HUGE if you record a lot and use a lot of softsynths and plugs.....It is LOW LATENCY MONITORING.

This basically means that no matter what your buffer settings are, the vocalist will always hear their voice without any delay. Basically the signal doesn't even go into the computer, it gets mixed with the beat and fed back into the headphone signal out of the box. Of course this can be done with a small side mixer but I wanted a portable systm with a very simple and clean signal chain.

So if you plan on doing a lot of recording and have an external pre and/or compressor, than this setup is awesome. One small drawback, low latency monitoring disables the plug ins on the recording track so you can't have the headphone mix playing a wet mix of the live vocal and say a Waves eq or something but it works great for me because I use external gear for my vocals for everything but EQ and EQ can come later after the session. Just remember you can use plug ins after you are done recording, just not while you are recording.

So as a summary, if you plan on doing a **** ton of recording like me; I record my own bass playing, guitar tracks, drum hits et cetera for beats and I record rappers all the time too, YOU WANT LOW LATENCY MONITORING.

If you take my advice you won't regret it. This is the reason that M-Powered blows.

As far as the M-Box is concerned, while shopping for those I listened to them versus the 003 and there was no comparison. The new Digi 003s sound REALLY damn good compared to the 003. They are very musical. Furthermore the expandability of the 003 for more pres, adats, routing, and all that is FAR BEYOND any Mbox.

If I was going down your path and looking into Pro Tools and planning on getting pretty serious, than I would seriously consider saving some money and getting and 003r. It will be very useful and I am sure it will retain most of its value for quite some time.

I researched all of this and used M-Powered with 4 different interfaces, listened to the pres and ultimately ended up spending more money than I wanted but I am VERY happy.

As far as you computer specs.....they may not be right but who knows. Do you have a buddy that has an Mbox and you could install LE and take it for a test run? I would do that before I spent any money just to be safe. Get it installed, open the Computer Usage window, and make like 16 ghost tracks, arm them and hit record. See how high the marker goes and how steady it is.

Hope this helps!
Yo I have to say horse****. I brought the maudio lightbridge and let me tell you that with different conveters slaps the shishkabobs out of the doule o series. I sold my HD system too downgrade because I felt better being limited and I wasn't running a commercial facility.

I'm not the biggest fan of tools because I'm a logic junkie and a nuendo die harder. but tools is beezneez and with the lightbridge having 32 io I can still dump
lightpipe if needs be.

grab a lightbridge and get yaself a conveter famo and do you and have fun. Peace out.
Old 26th August 2007
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xabiton View Post
i wish i had a friend with pro tools. most of my friends use AA, Cool Edit, or Acid to record vocals or they go to a professional studio. I am not looking to do much vocal work. Really its make beats and remixes. Thanks for the advice. I may hold off until I have the cash to get a 002 or 003 I was already thinking about that anyway. I just know I have a good list of things I'd like to add. Perhaps I may just wait and add PT until the very end. LE seems a lot cheaper also since I want to update my interface I just don't know how much of an improvement a mbox would be to a $200 firewire interface
If you are going to go with Mbox instead of the 003 in order to save some money, make sure you go with the Mbox Pro. Its firewire as well, and I has more connections, meaning you wont be as limited to what and how much other devices you can hook up to it.

I went through this same process you are going through a while back when I wanted to have Pro Tools in my studio.
Dont buy any audio interface that is going to be less than what you think you will need a year or two from now, especially if you know you are planning on expanding and adding more outboard gear in the near future.
Old 26th August 2007
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PettyCash View Post
If you are going to go with Mbox instead of the 003 in order to save some money, make sure you go with the Mbox Pro. Its firewire as well, and I has more connections, meaning you wont be as limited to what and how much other devices you can hook up to it.

I went through this same process you are going through a while back when I wanted to have Pro Tools in my studio.
Dont buy any audio interface that is going to be less than what you think you will need a year or two from now, especially if you know you are planning on expanding and adding more outboard gear in the near future.
i learned that the hardware. I am considering a patch bay to route my hardware as a result. I could probably even get away with a mbox2 mini. But I may have to buy a pc before i do any of this so I think I am going to hold off and buy Pro Tools as my last thing.
Old 26th August 2007
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xabiton View Post
i learned that the hardware. I am considering a patch bay to route my hardware as a result. I could probably even get away with a mbox2 mini. But I may have to buy a pc before i do any of this so I think I am going to hold off and buy Pro Tools as my last thing.
I always wondered, does LE use the same 48bit double precision for its mix buss that the TDM systems use?
Old 26th August 2007
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PettyCash View Post
I always wondered, does LE use the same 48bit double precision for its mix buss that the TDM systems use?
i have no idea
Old 26th August 2007
  #17
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No, Le uses 32 bit floating point math, HD uses 48 bit fixed point math, with good converters, it doesnt matter. X, you really should save and get a quality piece of gear instead of a bunch of mediocre things, it seems like patients isnt one of ya strong pointsheh, but think about it, when you hear someone with a good converter, your gonna want to upgrade again from the prosumer gear, and most likely you could have saved a couple dollars by just getting a quality piece from the start, not sayin dont have quality gear, but if you buy a solid piece now, it will last you a lot longer, just some food for thought
Old 26th August 2007
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deuc647 View Post
No, Le uses 32 bit floating point math, HD uses 48 bit fixed point math, with good converters, it doesnt matter. X, you really should save and get a quality piece of gear instead of a bunch of mediocre things, it seems like patients isnt one of ya strong pointsheh, but think about it, when you hear someone with a good converter, your gonna want to upgrade again from the prosumer gear, and most likely you could have saved a couple dollars by just getting a quality piece from the start, not sayin dont have quality gear, but if you buy a solid piece now, it will last you a lot longer, just some food for thought
I am not sure where u got that I am not patient from lol. I am very patient to be completely honest most people that know me will say I am the most patient person they know. I am also being realistic. This is a building thing more so than anything else. And a lot of the stuff I have now I bought without knowing any better like entry level ish. I am not rushing into anything I don't see where you got that from but at the same time I don't know the differences between each of the pieces as far as converters go which is why I ask which is going to be right for me. I have also mentioned that perhaps I should wait because there are other things I want to get my hands on also. And isn't Pro Tools LE or Mpowered really just Prosumer to begin with? Its the home studio watered down version of the real thing. The thing is tho I only need the watered down version to do what I want to do.
Old 26th August 2007
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killah_Trakz View Post
Yo I have to say horse****. I brought the maudio lightbridge and let me tell you that with different conveters slaps the shishkabobs out of the doule o series.
Anybody could have told you that you can get great converters that use ADAT/Lightpipe. One that will sound WAY better than the 002/003 ones. In fact, you could drop 4K on a stereo channel if you want some of the best converters. And of course, the Lightbridge has a lot of ADAT i/o...32 of them....You could choose whatever you want.

The 002/003 has way more features, better monitoring section, pretty much better everything EXCEPT 32 ADAT i/o. If you want to make beats with 32 of the best converters you are going over the top I would say and it is going to cost you more than it is worth. 8 ADAT i/o is about all I could ever need anyway which is what the 002/003 has....So I really don't see your point. This wasn't a conversation about sound quality, it was about affordable Pro Tools setups.

Besides, you still don't have low latency monitoring unless you put 2 more connections in the signal chain, and that sucks if you want really good recording quality or don't want to spend hundreds more on a good mixer and good cables.
Old 27th August 2007
  #20
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I didnt mean any disrespect by that but from the previous threads you started , it seems like you want to have a big sound on a small budget, didnt you say something about getting a 200 dollar mixer and get the neptunes sound, or something along those lines? Im just tryin to point you in the right direction, in that thread i told you just get a quality pre and it will bring you closer to the sound you want to achieve, me personally, i have a home studio that only i record and mix out of, i have an HD1 set up rosetta converters and 8 channels of tube pres, i got this gear from recommendations on GS and others, it is the closest ive gotten to the sound i want, i used to have a DX21 and the delta 44 converters, ive come a long way, all im sayin is that you seem like you want the bigboy sound, and you need to be patient enough to save and get the gear that can achieve those results for you. Now if you can swing it ,get a 002R, and when you can, spring for a converter upgrade, that way you can have your protools and eat it tooheh
Old 27th August 2007
  #21
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dropblacksky's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuehler View Post
I had M-Powered for a year and a half and after spending time tracking with my buddy I got a Digi 003 so I could have LE.

The reason for my change may seem small at first but it actually is HUGE if you record a lot and use a lot of softsynths and plugs.....It is LOW LATENCY MONITORING.

This basically means that no matter what your buffer settings are, the vocalist will always hear their voice without any delay. Basically the signal doesn't even go into the computer, it gets mixed with the beat and fed back into the headphone signal out of the box. Of course this can be done with a small side mixer but I wanted a portable systm with a very simple and clean signal chain.

So if you plan on doing a lot of recording and have an external pre and/or compressor, than this setup is awesome. One small drawback, low latency monitoring disables the plug ins on the recording track so you can't have the headphone mix playing a wet mix of the live vocal and say a Waves eq or something but it works great for me because I use external gear for my vocals for everything but EQ and EQ can come later after the session. Just remember you can use plug ins after you are done recording, just not while you are recording.

So as a summary, if you plan on doing a **** ton of recording like me; I record my own bass playing, guitar tracks, drum hits et cetera for beats and I record rappers all the time too, YOU WANT LOW LATENCY MONITORING.

If you take my advice you won't regret it. This is the reason that M-Powered blows.
Low latency monitoring has nothing to do with LE vs. M-Powered...it's a hardware issue. Both my Ozone and Firewire Solo have direct monitoring...so NO latency.
Old 27th August 2007
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deuc647 View Post
I didnt mean any disrespect by that but from the previous threads you started , it seems like you want to have a big sound on a small budget, didnt you say something about getting a 200 dollar mixer and get the neptunes sound, or something along those lines? Im just tryin to point you in the right direction, in that thread i told you just get a quality pre and it will bring you closer to the sound you want to achieve, me personally, i have a home studio that only i record and mix out of, i have an HD1 set up rosetta converters and 8 channels of tube pres, i got this gear from recommendations on GS and others, it is the closest ive gotten to the sound i want, i used to have a DX21 and the delta 44 converters, ive come a long way, all im sayin is that you seem like you want the bigboy sound, and you need to be patient enough to save and get the gear that can achieve those results for you. Now if you can swing it ,get a 002R, and when you can, spring for a converter upgrade, that way you can have your protools and eat it tooheh
I dig the neptunes yes. I don't want to sound like them I just said I really enjoy their music. If I wanted to sound like the neptunes Id go out and buy every piece of gear they have that I know of. I did ask about a $200 mixer. To be honest I didn't know any better and I did learn a few things in the thread. Id also like to add that I appriciate the advice I am given here and I take it all into consideration. For that reason I want to get a patch bay and a preamp. And track everything mono to pro tools. For that reason alone I would only need the stereo inputs. And because of that I think I can get away with a mbox2 mini. It was never about being cheap or rushing into gear. Its really about finding the best option for me. I want to sound like me and I want to be able to compete with the big boys as well. So as much as I am learning I am also rebuilding my setup to hopefully be just right for me from the ground up. Thus far I have made some decisions on some things I want to pick up.

Korg MicroX or Triton TR/LE havent decided yet but I love the Triton sound
Yamaha Mo 6 or a motif es Rack. I love the motif sounds hate navigating through the machine.
Yamaha HS80s i just love these monitors
Roland SP606 or a MPC 2000XL or maybe even an ASR-X or a EPS I don't really want to buy an asr10 I love the sound of the eps series but I would prefer to have pads for triggering drums even tho I can work either way.
As well as a patch bay and a preamp. Ill probabaly get the patch bay this week. I just haven't gone by Guitar Center.
And then a new pro tools setup. but inorder to get that pro tools setup Ill have to buy a new computer or its useless. plus cables plus stands ect. So I expect this to be something that takes time. So I am going to have to be patient because I don't make a lot of money. Again thanks for your help and don't take this as me trying to argue or be rude thats not my intention and sometimes I can come off a lil cocky or aggressive and blunt. I just know my limitations and I am trying to work around them
Old 27th August 2007
  #23
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no problemthumbsup, but remember the rule of thumb for the converter game so far has been you get what you pay for, most everything else is subject
And killah hit it dead on, grab a light bridge and choose your own conversionthumbsup
Old 27th August 2007
  #24
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KevWest's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by deuc647 View Post
no problemthumbsup, but remember the rule of thumb for the converter game so far has been you get what you pay for, most everything else is subject
And killah hit it dead on, grab a light bridge and choose your own conversionthumbsup
how much better are the converers on a 003 vs a mbox
Old 27th August 2007
  #25
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i couldnt tell you, im guessing its marginal
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