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Feeling out buyers... (beats) Channel Strips
Old 24th August 2007
  #1
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Feeling out buyers... (beats)

Haggling is an old art form in which the intent is to save (or procure) the most amount of money from said haggler.

But when selling tracks to people without knowing how much they have to play with can be bad/good depending on the starting number.

(This is what i'm thinking) -

If both parties agree on a number, say $1K for a track, the next track they pick up should go for the same amount or less?
What if the track was made together, as in physical proximity, not collaboration...?

I was also thinking of setting up a net for myself by structuring an A, B, C tier in which track 15 is on the A list, so thats $400 more than whats on B...
Old 24th August 2007
  #2
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I find that the best approach is to figure out how much the beat is worth to YOU, and then just hold firm on that number. That way, its not about greed, your not scaring somebody off by saying some rediculous number, just cuz you think theyll pay it.
Old 24th August 2007
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filterayok View Post
I find that the best approach is to figure out how much the beat is worth to YOU, and then just hold firm on that number. That way, its not about greed, your not scaring somebody off by saying some rediculous number, just cuz you think theyll pay it.
its not necessarily about how much its worth to me as opposed to what I can get for it..
in the realm of reality of course...
Im not trying to be greedy, rather secure my price for future placements.

If you start off at like say $200, no matter how hot something is I imagine it would be hard to negotiate a similar track to the same camp for 1K.
Old 25th August 2007
  #4
Lives for gear
 

yea but if you say you want a thousand, and they say they're willing to pay $200, and you take it, now you've shown them you'll fold when offered a WAY lower offer.. now THIS becomes the precedent. At least if you KNOW its not worth giving up for less then four hundred, when they come back with 200, you say NO with a clear concience, and you allow them to consider meeting you at 400, rather then walking away at the thaught of paying you 1000.

Also, some people wont even bother to counter-offer if your price is set too high, at the risk of insulting you...


I'm tellin you, when you go for the juggular, its EASY for things to backfire. The best way is to just say "i'll give this beat up for X amount, and anything lower, its not worth my time." Otherwise business deals become as stressful as sitting at a roulette table, always wondering if you could get more if you push harder, and fvcking up the deal in the process... They'll be a time to get greedy, when everyones on your nuts, but till then, i say operate according to what you believe is fair, and stick to your guns.
Old 25th August 2007
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filterayok View Post
yea but if you say you want a thousand, and they say they're willing to pay $200, and you take it, now you've shown them you'll fold when offered a WAY lower offer.. now THIS becomes the precedent. At least if you KNOW its not worth giving up for less then four hundred, when they come back with 200, you say NO with a clear concience, and you allow them to consider meeting you at 400, rather then walking away at the thaught of paying you 1000.

Also, some people wont even bother to counter-offer if your price is set too high, at the risk of insulting you...


I'm tellin you, when you go for the juggular, its EASY for things to backfire. The best way is to just say "i'll give this beat up for X amount, and anything lower, its not worth my time." Otherwise business deals become as stressful as sitting at a roulette table, always wondering if you could get more if you push harder, and fvcking up the deal in the process... They'll be a time to get greedy, when everyones on your nuts, but till then, i say operate according to what you believe is fair, and stick to your guns.

when you start higher than you think its worth, the others start lower, then you meet in the (somewhat) middle.. and even if its lower than what you initially set out for, its not going to be THAT much lower..
Old 25th August 2007
  #6
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ok..

so what about producing the trak.
say dude buys your beat for $1k and then flies you to LA.. Do you charge him/his camp to produce the track as well?

(produce as in track vox, add bits to the track that may need, drops, etc..)
Old 25th August 2007
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umlaaat View Post
when you start higher than you think its worth, the others start lower, then you meet in the (somewhat) middle.. and even if its lower than what you initially set out for, its not going to be THAT much lower..
well that all depends on what number your thinking and what number they're thinking, doesn't it?

Look man ask for a lot of money and see for yourself what happens.. maybe you'll get lucky, maybe they'll pay it. But i'm just tellin you from MY experience, deals get fvcked up when someone starts setting the price too high. The client either says oh well and walks away from the deal, or you end up looking like fool once they see what you'll REALLY take. At the end of the day, you have NO IDEA what they're willing to spend, so the only price that matters is your own
Old 25th August 2007
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umlaaat View Post
ok..

so what about producing the trak.
say dude buys your beat for $1k and then flies you to LA.. Do you charge him/his camp to produce the track as well?

(produce as in track vox, add bits to the track that may need, drops, etc..)
Not sure, to be honest, i dont sell beats, onlly full songs, so my prices include everything.
Old 25th August 2007
  #9
Gear Addict
 
riecespieces's Avatar
 

its like the stock market sell high buy low.. figure out which side of the equation ur on n do that...

If they like the track that much theyre going to be willing to try an talk u down then u can negotiate always remember this theyre going to tell u they have no money but yet theyre going to spend atleast a thought on recording mixing and maybe mastering plus reproduction of cds t shirts flyers gas to get to shows etc if theyre going to insult ur intellegence n be not willing to spend atleast that on a track y even do it. Honestly if they cant afford it anywayz 9 times out of ten thats usually the ones that were just goin record it in a crappy studio n its not going to get out anywayz protect urself and dont depend on beat money to pay ur bills at first so u dont have to get pimped. Cuz lets be real that is what they do to us is pimp us. They come in give us a million reasons y we should give the track up for free or under a grand but yet they pay double that to the studio for recording time and have money left over for alcohol, makin it rain, rental cars, promo items, hotels n trips to those stupid music conferences... Just bein real n **** punctuation @ 230 am
Old 25th August 2007
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filterayok View Post
well that all depends on what number your thinking and what number they're thinking, doesn't it?

Look man ask for a lot of money and see for yourself what happens.. maybe you'll get lucky, maybe they'll pay it. But i'm just tellin you from MY experience, deals get fvcked up when someone starts setting the price too high. The client either says oh well and walks away from the deal, or you end up looking like fool once they see what you'll REALLY take. At the end of the day, you have NO IDEA what they're willing to spend, so the only price that matters is your own
All numbers are in the realm of reality.. I would never ask for too much and set the price accordingly. But i think theres a certain window of give and take that can work in favor of the producer.

I guess its true you will never know if they have the Sultan of Brunei at their back or the $ they make at mcd.
Old 25th August 2007
  #11
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by riecespieces View Post
its like the stock market sell high buy low.. figure out which side of the equation ur on n do that...

If they like the track that much theyre going to be willing to try an talk u down then u can negotiate always remember this theyre going to tell u they have no money but yet theyre going to spend atleast a thought on recording mixing and maybe mastering plus reproduction of cds t shirts flyers gas to get to shows etc if theyre going to insult ur intellegence n be not willing to spend atleast that on a track y even do it. Honestly if they cant afford it anywayz 9 times out of ten thats usually the ones that were just goin record it in a crappy studio n its not going to get out anywayz protect urself and dont depend on beat money to pay ur bills at first so u dont have to get pimped. Cuz lets be real that is what they do to us is pimp us. They come in give us a million reasons y we should give the track up for free or under a grand but yet they pay double that to the studio for recording time and have money left over for alcohol, makin it rain, rental cars, promo items, hotels n trips to those stupid music conferences... Just bein real n **** punctuation @ 230 am
haha i just had a label guy tell me he thaught he could get me twenyK, then halfway thru the day he called back "looks more like fifteen" then by the end of the day he goes "actually they were talking about cutting on spec to see if they like it"

But you KNOW they spend TENS OF THOUSANDS on who's 'hot right now' JUST TO GET IN THE STUDIO.... WITHOUT EVEN HEARING THE DAMN TRACK!!! I wanna say, at least with MY record, you KNOW you like it, so jeez, i dont think some $$ is out of line here....
Old 31st December 2007
  #12
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mix-it-well's Avatar
 

I mean it's easy in theory ,ppl will give you money when they can make even more money with your idea/product/production. That#s why Bill Gates is so f'ing rich.
So figure out how much money your track could generate for them and set your price way lower than that.
Help them make money and you will get money.

But to be honest ,it's hard to get any money in the biz nowadays.
Even if you producer for a major artist...thanks to the etablished producers that give out beats to their rapper-homies nearly for free.fuuck

Quote:
But you KNOW they spend TENS OF THOUSANDS on who's 'hot right now' JUST TO GET IN THE STUDIO.... WITHOUT EVEN HEARING THE DAMN TRACK!!! I wanna say, at least with MY record, you KNOW you like it, so jeez, i dont think some $$ is out of line here....
word.
This is so frustrating.
I deal with this big label right now...the artis loves the tracks and I KNOW that they got tons of doe but ...looks like no money for the producer haha. This biz is bs.

I migh should start putting together some samples and put out a sample-library and sell ppl the dream of being a well payed producer one day...lol
Old 31st December 2007
  #13
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cynic one's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mix-it-well View Post

I migh should start putting together some samples and put out a sample-library and sell ppl the dream of being a well payed producer one day...lol
As a strictly business move, it's going to be easier to make money that way definitely. Only reason I make this music is it's an escape from every day life for me. If you're doing music just for the $$$ then I think you're in it for the wrong reasons.

If you're trying to cake up just on beats that's a hard road.
Old 1st January 2008
  #14
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mix-it-well's Avatar
 

If I would do this for $$ I would have stopped makin`beats a long while ago.

But it's work and if somebody makes money off your work ,you should get payed.
Old 4th January 2008
  #15
Registered User
 

I would say to have a different set of rates for major label clients and indies,

but then, the majors aint got much bread these days either lol.

Best advice is to always start high. If they are scared off from making a counter offer they dont know how to do buisiness and probably wouldnt pay you anyways.

think about it this way....nobody wants an album full of "cheap" tracks. They want it to sound professional. They will actually feel better about getting a deal on a track that was more expensive than they will getting a cheapo track.

And remember, No paper = no protools. Cut the check or cut to the 2track you scrubs!
Old 4th January 2008
  #16
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
I would say to have a different set of rates for major label clients and indies,

but then, the majors aint got much bread these days either lol.

Best advice is to always start high. If they are scared off from making a counter offer they dont know how to do buisiness and probably wouldnt pay you anyways.

think about it this way....nobody wants an album full of "cheap" tracks. They want it to sound professional. They will actually feel better about getting a deal on a track that was more expensive than they will getting a cheapo track.

And remember, No paper = no protools. Cut the check or cut to the 2track you scrubs!

The sad thing is most rappers now a days have no problem cutting to the 2tracks and then using your beat without paying you anything. Granted thats mainly the underground artists BUT the underground makes up a huge chunk of the industry now with everyone starting their little labels and rapping, even if they couldnt pay much something would be better than all the deadbeating. and who knows how many people with talent deadbeated their demo tracks into a big deal over the past few years. Really Im starting to think that most producers are just being raped now a days by EVERYONE in the industry. Rates are a lot lower in many areas, people sell beats for $20, A friend of mine is a very well known producer and very successful and friends Ive flat out seen people act like he should give them beats for free because its the "hommie" thing to do. I think that producers are part of the problem , well that is those producers who only charge $20 for a beat especially if it is any good. YUP!

Old 5th January 2008
  #17
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HoPMiX's Avatar
20 bucks?
lol
sounds like some local level hoodstar ****.

I agree with setting your price and sticking to it.
But if your just selling a beat.. then you aint worth 1000 bux homie.
You need to come up with somthing a li better than that.

Look at it from a artist point of view.
Heres so and so has a "beat". but im gonna make that beat hotter and with out me that beat aint ****. I make the the beat into a song. And i can get a beat for 20 bux from so and so. make it hot and get this budget and go **** with a real producer.

This is what defines you as a producer and a beat maker. As a beat maker your done there. So get your 20 bucks and go back to your compaq.

As a producer yur not selling a beat. your selling yourself.
So language changes.
Artist point of view goes to
But so and so producer has contacts. He understand recording and engineering and his **** sounds so much better in the club and on the radio. Plus he has a lot of knowledge about working the record at pools and radio. He can really help me get to the next level. Ill pay for that. CUZ DJ FRUITY LOOPS cant do that for me.

Sometimes people just have to see you in action. They see producers on mtv and here him on the radio. thats why they don't need to hear the beat and they are willing to drop 10k.

If someone is local and i know 1000 bux is a lot for em. Ill say pay for the studio time. lets cut a couple records and you'll see and hear the difference. I do the session for free but keep the records. Doesn't leave the studio. They are all excited about it and its hitting so hard in the lab.. then you see there face when they have to leave with no music. They go get that money cuz they want the records.

Now major label stuff.. get a manager. give em percentage to be the dickhead and negotiate with the bigger dickheads while you and the artist smoke blunts and play madden. That way you stay the nice guy and if anything goes haywire.. just say hey man hes my manager.. hes the dick not me..

anyway thats my rant for the month
one
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