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Is hip hop gentrified?
Old 14th September 2020 | Show parent
  #31
Xnr
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Originally Posted by Matteusz View Post
Myself feels bored to death about it.
It was kinda cool in the early 90s, ok.
Congratulations, you have grown up. Obviously their target audience is teenagers. And expensive cars is not a bad thing to chase after (helps boost the economy). Better than propaganda of codeine anyway.
Old 15th September 2020
  #32
One would have thought so.
Old 15th September 2020 | Show parent
  #33
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Originally Posted by boombapdame View Post
Have
BTW men are conditioned to be way more hypersexualized than women could ever be. Women, especially if Black, still get penalized for being it, whether playing a role to fit an agenda or not.
Penalized?

How? By whom?

I'd say they get paid, not penalized.

If you talk about the moralists, they are part of the equation. Though it got really difficult to shock people these days.
Old 15th September 2020
  #34
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When @ Matteusz I say penalized, we as Black women get called Jezebels/hoes/*****s/sluts/chickenheads (90s)/hoochies (90s), thots (2010s slang meaning "that hoe over there" made popular by Chief Keef) etc. by society from those who look like us and not look like us and by both other Black women and not surprisingly, Black men. Yes, they get paid but there is an underlying social price to pay.

Another example of being penalized though irrelevant is the infamous "nipplegate" of Janet and Justin, guess who walked away w/o backlash? The latter.
Old 16th September 2020 | Show parent
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boombapdame View Post
Hip Hop @ sammmoxo will never be bereft of the Blacks and Latinos whom the music/culture was/is for but here's the thing, White (and/or Jewish, two different races) people have been A&R, label execs, etc. since the beginning but there is a diff between the Dante Ross and Faith Newman and Wendy Day (she is responsible for Cash Money's legendary deal and is "one of the good ones" follow her on IG at thisiswendyday and her husband Tony Guidry at iamthaconnect on IG) types and the suburban people of the current era whose only interaction w/Black people is meme/Internet culture.

I'm not confused as to what Hip Hop has been, once was and is now but the best way to define a "culture" is "transferring knowledge, ways (lifestyle), etc. to and from a people" and if much of what is passed down musically is ignorance, lack of knowledge (of self, and I don't mean in the "faux conscious" sense many rappers dabble(d) in but moreso Maslow "self actualization"), glorification of social ills then Hip Hop is as far from a culture than it has ever been.
I love the discussion, but we have to be careful about wishing for the days when we had "better" white or Jewish handlers. We end up trying to not actually solve the problem, but expending all our effort trying to get to a less painful place.

The truth is that this industry changed as independent hip hop took over. The crack era funded much of independent music. The guys with the money to promote records outside the majors were typically guys with street money. Street money doesn't require education, and with limited access to capital outside of street money, the black and brown people with an "entreprenurial" spirit went to the streets.

Eventually, the music began to reflect this shift. The art became an imitation of the life, except the life isn't always interesting. So guys became caricatures in an attempt to out do one another. It's always funny to me to see who rappers become once a bit of light is shined on them. Give them a camera and a microphone and they assume their "artist costume". They become a fake version of themselves they think the world wants to see from them. I know many guys who are now dead/in jail because they got caught up in trying to live their artist costume.

On another note, once the oppressed see their oppressor as a symbol of freedom, in their attempts to imitate their oppressor, they become self oppressing." --Paulo Friere.
Hip hop was born out of ghettos that were created post CRA 1964. We had messages of revolution and black unity intentionally displaced with messages of patriotism. We had our collectiveness and "power to the people" replaced by messages of individuality. And we also had crack become the primary employer in the inner city , as white flight took jobs out of the inner cities..

A complex set of environmental forces gave us what we have today.

The biggest issue is no matter what the forces of opposition or oppression have been, on our watch what have we done to black music?

Go back to the Stax,Motown's and the Meter's and Funkadelic,James Brown, EWF, Stevie Wonder, Luther Vandross Donny Hathaway, Curtis Mayfield's

On our watch, what have we done to black music?
Old 16th September 2020
  #36
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We @ IM WHO YOU THINK have done more harm than good with our music. Hip Hop exalting the "by any means necessary" wannabe (insert drug lord of any era here) kingpin (more like pawn) image is one such symptom of rappers overhyping how "real" they keep and/or kept it for the so-called "street(s)."

All the aforementioned artists you name are among my faves.
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Old 16th September 2020 | Show parent
  #37
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[QUOTE=IM WHO YOU THINK;14976293]

Quote:
The truth is that this industry changed as independent hip hop took over. The crack era funded much of independent music. The guys with the money to promote records outside the majors were typically guys with street money. Street money doesn't require education, and with limited access to capital outside of street money, the black and brown people with an "entreprenurial" spirit went to the streets.
(Interesting Avatar )

I don't understand the vague comments about Independent labels taking over & street money. Many of the founders had no choice but to go independent.. Artists sold music from the back of their vehicles.Rappers were also selling tapes of live shows since 1977.

I recommend you read or loan the book... Freddy Fresh Presents the Rap Records..That book chronicles hundreds of independent labels from 1979 - 1994. Also. Jim Fricke & Charlie Ahearn - Yes yes y'all & David Toop - The Rap attack.. African Rap To Global Hip Hop.

Labels & their sources of investment.

The Sugar Hill & Sunnyview record labels were created with financial backing from Morris Levy & Sal Pisello who were connected to the mob.So the mafia had early input in the disco rap / electro Hip Hop era. Krs One has also stated in interviews that B B Boy records was a front for an adult movie company.


Code:
Go back to the Stax,Motown's and the Meter's and Funkadelic,James Brown, EWF, Stevie Wonder, Luther Vandross Donny Hathaway, Curtis Mayfield's

This is too vague & many of those Artists have passed.Curtis Mayfield also had an independent label. The James Brown who owned Radio stations & wrote songs about empowerment evolved into Vegas James Brown. He was also critical of Hip Hop in the 80s when it was that genre that resurrected his career & campaigned for his release when he was imprisoned.
Old 16th September 2020 | Show parent
  #38
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[QUOTE=tific;14976847]
Quote:
Originally Posted by IM WHO YOU THINK View Post



(Interesting Avatar )

I don't understand the vague comments about Independent labels taking over & street money. Many of the founders had no choice but to go independent.. Artists sold music from the back of their vehicles.Rappers were also selling tapes of live shows since 1977.

I recommend you read or loan the book... Freddy Fresh Presents the Rap Records..That book chronicles hundreds of independent labels from 1979 - 1994. Also. Jim Fricke & Charlie Ahearn - Yes yes y'all & David Toop - The Rap attack.. African Rap To Global Hip Hop.

Labels & their sources of investment.

The Sugar Hill & Sunnyview record labels were created with financial backing from Morris Levy & Sal Pisello who were connected to the mob.So the mafia had early input in the disco rap / electro Hip Hop era. Krs One has also stated in interviews that B B Boy records was a front for an adult movie company.


Code:
Go back to the Stax,Motown's and the Meter's and Funkadelic,James Brown, EWF, Stevie Wonder, Luther Vandross Donny Hathaway, Curtis Mayfield's

This is too vague & many of those Artists have passed.Curtis Mayfield also had an independent label. The James Brown who owned Radio stations & wrote songs about empowerment evolved into Vegas James Brown. He was also critical of Hip Hop in the 80s when it was that genre that resurrected his career & campaigned for his release when he was imprisoned.
With all due respect, I don't need to read a book about independent record labels in the 90's. I know what went on. I'm wondering why you'd assume I need one.


I don't know how to respond to the rest of your post. I don't know what I said that you had an issue with. You've essentially said I was too vague. I don't know how to respond.

Go back and listen to black music before this era, and look at where the torch has been carried to on our watch. Have we made it better or worse? I don't know why you'd need those artists to be alive to do that. And I think given where we are today, James was right to be critical and if anyone had the right to, he definitely did.

We stand on the shoulders of people like him who helped shaped black music in a much rougher time imo. If you disagree with that, we'll probably see most things about the music biz differently.
Old 17th September 2020 | Show parent
  #39
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How long have you used that avatar?
Are you aware that the name in your avatar is a derogatory term for the people you claim to be?






[QUOTE=IM WHO YOU THINK;14976870]
Quote:
Originally Posted by tific View Post

With all due respect, I don't need to read a book about independent record labels in the 90's. I know what went on. I'm wondering why you'd assume I need one.


I don't know how to respond to the rest of your post. I don't know what I said that you had an issue with. You've essentially said I was too vague. I don't know how to respond.

Go back and listen to black music before this era, and look at where the torch has been carried to on our watch. Have we made it better or worse? I don't know why you'd need those artists to be alive to do that. And I think given where we are today, James was right to be critical and if anyone had the right to, he definitely did.

We stand on the shoulders of people like him who helped shaped black music in a much rougher time imo. If you disagree with that, we'll probably see most things about the music biz differently.
Old 17th September 2020 | Show parent
  #40
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[QUOTE=tific;14977781]How long have you used that avatar?
Are you aware that the name in your avatar is a derogatory term for the people you claim to be?






LMBAO. Now you are going to tell me what's derogatory to me? Go away please.
Old 17th September 2020 | Show parent
  #41
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[QUOTE=IM WHO YOU THINK;14977792]
Quote:
Originally Posted by tific View Post
How long have you used that avatar?
Are you aware that the name in your avatar is a derogatory term for the people you claim to be?



LMBAO. Now you are going to tell me what's derogatory to me? Go away please.
¿ so you are aware

•You have a derogatory word in your avatar.
•Your posting comments telling others to examine history. Where they will also learn the origin of the derogatory word.
•You don't need to read suggested material.
•Your community spirit & sentiments on unity evaporated when addressed.


Goodbye Larper.
Old 17th September 2020 | Show parent
  #42
Xnr
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Old 17th September 2020 | Show parent
  #43
1TP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boombapdame View Post
there is nothing wrong w/women (mainly if they are of my ethnicity and not White) being A&R's if their position
That sounds pretty racist to me.
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Old 17th September 2020 | Show parent
  #44
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[QUOTE=tific;14977836]
Quote:
Originally Posted by IM WHO YOU THINK View Post

¿ so you are aware

•You have a derogatory word in your avatar.
•Your posting comments telling others to examine history. Where they will also learn the origin of the derogatory word.
•You don't need to read suggested material.
•Your community spirit & sentiments on unity evaporated when addressed.


Goodbye Larper.
I didn't express a desire for community spirit with you. I didn't express any sentiments on unity or unifying with you. Nothing I said "evaporated when addressed."

You've made that up.

Also, It's not that I don't need to read "suggested material" I don't need to read the book suggested by you.

Since our discussion started, I simply didn't like your tone. You came into a discussion completely writing off everything I typed without addressing it, yet offering a critique and a suggestion. Perhaps it was too vague for you, but I'm willing to bet the person I was speaking to understood my post fully. You didn't ask for clarity on anything you went straight into providing your argument against it. I have no clue what you were arguing against or triggered by since you didn't say. (I have a hunch, but I won't bother to state it. It's not important).

You suggested I read a book (about something I actually lived) and your recommended book's timeline ended in 1994, (when much of what I was discussing happened outside the book's timeline).

I recommended (to a black woman that I've spoken with several times) that she go back to music from several people I named and I asked about the state of black music under our watch.

You said "this is too vague and many of those artists have passed" because you didn't understand what I was saying. You didn't ask for clarity. You voiced your critique on something you didn't understand.

Perhaps we have cultural differences that caused you to not understand what I was saying, but I'm sure she understood what I typed.
When I attempted to clarify what I stated, your response was to ask how long I had my avatar and if I knew it contained a term that was derogatory to the "people I claim to be."

If you wanted to discuss it (and you obviously did since you mentioned it in both your initial post and your post asking how long I had it), your line of questioning me about it wasn't done in a manner that made me want to take the time to explain its origin or why I chose it.

By that point, I didn't like the tone of your discussion and I requested that you go away.

I owe you nothing and I ask nothing of you.

We're good.
Old 17th September 2020 | Show parent
  #45
Xnr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1TP View Post
That sounds pretty racist to me.
People seem to be getting the term wrong. Racism implies superiority of one race above another. Merely acknowledging the fact that there are differences between certain ethnic groups is not racism, it's scientific truth. Just like saying men and women are not identical.
Old 17th September 2020 | Show parent
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xnr View Post
People seem to be getting the term wrong. Racism implies superiority of one race above another. Merely acknowledging the fact that there are differences between certain ethnic groups is not racism, it's scientific truth. Just like saying men and women are not identical.
So saying "there is nothing wrong w/women (mainly if they are of my ethnicity and not White) being A&R's if their position[...]" is not racist? Saying that there is something wrong with a WHITE woman being an A&R is not racist? So people should get jobs based on their skin color? And that's not racist. Ok, cool. What would you call it then?
Old 17th September 2020
  #47
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I @ 1TP stated what I did because if you want to understand the history of Black music in its complexity and creativity, the latter many of us have been erased from consciously and unconsciously when the business and/or art of it is discussed, who's an A&R or any other formerly coveted position is of examination, always.
Old 17th September 2020
  #48
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Appreciate @ IM WHO YOU THINK the recommendations as I'm an armchair musicologist (the quotes in my sig state how I feel about Black music overall). PM me about what I mean when I say armchair muso.
Old 17th September 2020 | Show parent
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boombapdame View Post
When @ Matteusz I say penalized, we as Black women get called Jezebels/hoes/*****s/sluts/chickenheads (90s)/hoochies (90s), thots (2010s slang meaning "that hoe over there" made popular by Chief Keef) etc. by society from those who look like us and not look like us and by both other Black women and not surprisingly, Black men. Yes, they get paid but there is an underlying social price to pay.
Is that different from how a white women is seen/treated?

I'm looking at the US from Europe, it's hard to make out details from here..


Colour aside, when men look down at "sluts", it's because though those ladies seem to have low standards, and yet they still won't sleep with those men. Ouch.



I guess black folks in the US have their reasons to be angry and proud of their blackness. What do I know..

But I don't see how that helps anyone, always reminding everyone of being black, being female, what does it help?
Old 17th September 2020 | Show parent
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1TP View Post
So saying "there is nothing wrong w/women (mainly if they are of my ethnicity and not White) being A&R's if their position[...]" is not racist? Saying that there is something wrong with a WHITE woman being an A&R is not racist? So people should get jobs based on their skin color? And that's not racist. Ok, cool. What would you call it then?
I'm probably wading into water that I shouldn't and. I don't pretend to speak for her, but my interpretation of that was completely different from yours.

I think her point was that women should have equal access to be A&R , but that black music shouldn't have more white gate keepers, so she specified someone who isn't a white woman to specifically allow access for more women of color.

Are you arguing that black music should have more white gate keepers, lest we be unfair to white women?
Old 17th September 2020 | Show parent
  #51
1TP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IM WHO YOU THINK View Post
Are you arguing that black music should have more white gate keepers, lest we be unfair to white women?
No, I think men and women of all colors should have equal opportunities. That said, women and POCs and especially women of color are probably very much underrepresented. I don't have any statistics, but I'm quite sure that's the case. I also believe that voices other than white straight men should be heard as artists. And I believe that anyone who acts as a gatekeeper in hiphop should care and understand and respect the history of hiphop and the people who have created it. But I also believe that a white person is also suitable if they understand the culture. Just as some black people don't give a **** about any of that, some white people truly do care. And saying that white people aren't suitable for that isn't really progressing equality for people who look different from another. That is the goal right?

But at the end of the day labels don't give a **** about artists, culture or anything if they are making money. We can make them care at least a little by voting with our wallets.
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Old 17th September 2020 | Show parent
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1TP View Post
No, I think men and women of all colors should have equal opportunities. That said, women and POCs and especially women of color are probably very much underrepresented. I don't have any statistics, but I'm quite sure that's the case. I also believe that voices other than white straight men should be heard as artists. And I believe that anyone who acts as a gatekeeper in hiphop should care and understand and respect the history of hiphop and the people who have created it. But I also believe that a white person is also suitable if they understand the culture. Just as some black people don't give a **** about any of that, some white people truly do care. And saying that white people aren't suitable for that isn't really progressing equality for people who look different from another. That is the goal right?

But at the end of the day labels don't give a **** about artists, culture or anything if they are making money. We can make them care at least a little by voting with our wallets.
I can dig it. I agree with much of what you said. I see the goal more as ending the economic oppression of people of color.
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Old 17th September 2020 | Show parent
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IM WHO YOU THINK View Post
I can dig it. I agree with much of what you said. I see the goal more as ending the economic oppression of people of color.
This we absolutely agree on!
Old 17th September 2020 | Show parent
  #54
Xnr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IM WHO YOU THINK View Post
I see the goal more as ending the economic oppression of people of color.
And how do we do that?
Old 17th September 2020
  #55
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Yes @ Matteusz it is different because Black women have baggage from being hit w/the Jezebel/hypersexual stereotype which was/is used to justify us being sexually demeaned. As to White women, a certain word for a promiscuous woman that gets reduced to a 3 letter garden tool in Black slang was originally aimed at White women, and slut was originally non-sexual and meant a nasty person of either gender. I remind those I speak w/on here of my race and gender because context is lost on the Internet just as it gets lost offline.
Old 17th September 2020
  #56
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You @ IM WHO YOU THINK understand where I'm coming from and get me. To illustrate my point, although this is written by a Black British man, open letter by Keith Harris OBE and a Black American man, Ron Sweeney: The Elephant In The Room both of whom have male privilege, the sentiment is still relatable to all Brothas and Sistas.
Old 17th September 2020
  #57
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https://youtu.be/Gbfnh1oVTk0

Please don’t fall down the rabbit hole of believing that you’ve discovered something new in this industry...

This nonsense has been been happening since the beginning. Perhaps the ONLY difference now is that people of color are actually getting to hold onto some of the profits.

There’s plenty of political/meaningful hip hop... go find those artists and support them.
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Old 17th September 2020
  #58
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I @ bgood have no trouble finding quality but it's much harder not that it was easy. Downside is everything now is for the ADD/ADHD non listener who treats music as aural wallpaper.
Old 17th September 2020 | Show parent
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boombapdame View Post
I @ bgood have no trouble finding quality but it's much harder not that it was easy. Downside is everything now is for the ADD/ADHD non listener who treats music as aural wallpaper.
Lol

Preach, brother!

That’s in every damn genre, unfortunately.
Old 17th September 2020
  #60
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I'm @ bgood a "Sista."
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