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Pioneer TORAIZ SP-16 These Days?
Old 18th June 2020
  #61
@ smccarthy945 Foley artists are folks who make sound effects for Radio/TV/Movies or in @ boombapdame 's case for use in productions...
Old 19th June 2020
  #62
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael T View Post
If we can make so called "great" music with limited gear then imagine what should be made with unlimited gear. You got musicians who play real instruments then you got beat makers who spend all days manipulating sounds until they come up with something they think sounds good. A workstation like the Montague or Fantom will always allow a creative person to make better music than a groove box. Groove boxes are for a certain group of people mostly who can't play instruments or want the easy way out by not really having to learn the ins and out of professional music production.
Using a groove box taught me better synthesis and sound design, and also taught me how to be better at keys. Trying to play bass lines or fill in instruments to make it interesting . I disagree with this comment because you have DJ Quiks Bido 1s and Ohene Savant Turkman Souljah and many others who are dope instrumentalists but still use a groove box. Also to get the most out a box somerimes takes a degree of instrumentality. I never met a groove box where you didn't have to know something about playing to really capitalize.
Old 20th June 2020
  #63
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by boombapdame View Post
You @ smccarthy945 should know what foley sampling is. Broken English is not my language as I'm American-born and Black. If you know what an insult is defined as, what I said is not one. One of the main reasons I don't care to sample if I learn how to produce is the economics and litigiousness of it.
Fair enough. I don't sample copyrighted works anymore either. But since I can actually play instruments I also know that playing an instrument isn't a magical solution to a good song either. I personally prefer the sound you get out of using drums from breaks instead of playing live drums and many times sampling the sound of a guitar and re-playing sounds better than actually playing and chopping the guitar.

The reason samples sound so good is because the sounds were originally produced, played and engineered. Then you are taking those sounds and sampling and putting them through production and engineering again. Simply playing a guitar rift or keyboard and sampling it won't give you that same sound.

I sample from loop sets, free loop sites, live instruments etc but I never sample from copyrighted records or anything I need to clear because it's such a giant pain in the ass now. They will clear it but it will have a million restrictions or you will lose a good chunk of publishing. Sampling just isn't worth it anymore.

That's why I like the SP-16 because the sounds you do load into it you can do so much with. It gives you a ton of possibilities especially with chops. It just has a special way of handling samples no other machine can.

If Pioneer ever discontinues the SP-16, I am going to buy an extra and keep it in the box just in case my main one breaks I love it that much.
Old 20th June 2020
  #64
mp3
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by smccarthy945 View Post
If Pioneer ever discontinues the SP-16, I am going to buy an extra and keep it in the box just in case my main one breaks I love it that much.
I’m with you there. The SP-16 is one of those rare boxes where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. I mean looking at the spec sheet, you can see why people would choose the competition over this. The Akais are more complete workstations, the Elektrons do p-locking much better, etc. But when you sit down in front of the SP-16, ideas just pour out of your fingers and into the machine. And then none of those limitations matter. Whether it’s the 16 samples or the 64 seconds or the 4 bars or whatever else. It all just becomes secondary to that dope a$$ track you just made in like 38 seconds haha.

This thing is great, and I actually like the fact that it’s not more popular. It feels like my own personal little secret weapon. Only thing I don’t like is that the lack of popularity makes a mk2 version much less likely. Which makes me sad lol. That would be a tragedy on the level of EMU dropping the SP-1200 line.
Old 20th June 2020
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
I’m with you there. The SP-16 is one of those rare boxes where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. I mean looking at the spec sheet, you can see why people would choose the competition over this. The Akais are more complete workstations, the Elektrons do p-locking much better, etc. But when you sit down in front of the SP-16, ideas just pour out of your fingers and into the machine. And then none of those limitations matter. Whether it’s the 16 samples or the 64 seconds or the 4 bars or whatever else. It all just becomes secondary to that dope a$$ track you just made in like 38 seconds haha.

This thing is great, and I actually like the fact that it’s not more popular. It feels like my own personal little secret weapon. Only thing I don’t like is that the lack of popularity makes a mk2 version much less likely. Which makes me sad lol. That would be a tragedy on the level of EMU dropping the SP-1200 line.
Oh yea completely agree. I do wish it was more popular so Pioneer puts more resources into it and continues the line. I think people do look at the specs and don't get it. I do see why someone would pick an MPC over it but like you said specs don't matter when you sit in front of it and knock out one of your best tracks in an hour.

I just did two tracks last night in 3 hours and they were both fire. In Ableton, it would have taken me at least double the time and they wouldn't have been anywhere as dope. There is just something about this machine that is magic. The tracks I make with the thing are just absolutely incredible.
Old 27th June 2020
  #66
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tengu's Avatar
It's great to see others loving this box.

Over the years I've used 2000xl, SP12, MPC 2500/1000, Roland SP404sx, Ableton, Asr10, EPS16, Akai MPC studio, and MPC Live (on their own or in combination) to make music/beats. However, I got tired of all their workflow, and moved over to Elektron gear. I had Octatrack, Digitakt, Machinedrum, Analog 4, and Rytm, and I absolutely got inspired by workflow, but to do what I needed I required more than one of their boxes. In the end I had to sell it all to fund a mastering studio though.

All I had left was the Studio and I like it, but every time I sat down to make music, I'd last 15 minutes and get up and play drums for 3 hours. It was played out for me and uninspiring. Then I started looking at the Toraiz more. I realised it could cover most of what I was using the Digitakt and Octatrack in combination. It has step sequencing plus the ability to parameter lock. But it's workflow is just to the point. No fluff. That makes it fun and inspiring.

But the other thing - it sounds incredible. I don't usually like the sound of Pioneer gear, but this thing sounds brilliant. I love it the more and more I used it. One pad almost acts like a whole bank of sounds if you want. It makes everything you see all there is to it. Very little menu diving. However, you really need to sit with it to get it - although it's quick to learn. I took a chance and was completely blown away by how much I liked it. It's another world.

It would be easy for them to change it to more than 4 bars. It could easily be 8 with the use of the shift button. So I'm hoping that comes with an update. However, for 90% of my work 4 is enough.

I tried the MPC Live and didn't dig it. I thought it sounded real tepid. No grunt. This thing is the opposite. Like a combination of an EPS/SP404sx on roids/and a digitakt. Great sound.

If I had to describe it to someone, and I have, I'd say for a "beatmaker" it's the main parts of an Ocatrack combined with a Digitakt, an old school workflow of a 3000 (but MUCH FASTER) along with an SP404sx. It's just to the point.

I thought I was the only beatmaker using it. Hopefully, more get on board so we keep getting updates.
Old 27th June 2020
  #67
Lives for gear
 

Yea man I agree. The Toriaz workflow is inspiring as all hell. It's the only thing I use anymore. And your right the output and sound quality is freaking incredible. I compared it to my Focucrite and the sound quality from the Pioneer is phenomenal.

Seriously anyone who hasn't checked this thing out it's amazing. If you want to have fun making beats again and make some incredible **** the Pioneer Toriaz is the truth.

It's like an ASR-10 and MPC had the most amazing kid ever. The combination of the pads and step sequencer is magical.

I am telling you that if you sleep on this thing you will miss the most classic piece of gear made in the last 15 years. People are going to value this thing like the SP 1200 in 10+ years.
Old 27th June 2020
  #68
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Michael T's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tengu View Post
It's great to see others loving this box.

Over the years I've used 2000xl, SP12, MPC 2500/1000, Roland SP404sx, Ableton, Asr10, EPS16, Akai MPC studio, and MPC Live (on their own or in combination) to make music/beats. However, I got tired of all their workflow, and moved over to Elektron gear. I had Octatrack, Digitakt, Machinedrum, Analog 4, and Rytm, and I absolutely got inspired by workflow, but to do what I needed I required more than one of their boxes. In the end I had to sell it all to fund a mastering studio though.

All I had left was the Studio and I like it, but every time I sat down to make music, I'd last 15 minutes and get up and play drums for 3 hours. It was played out for me and uninspiring. Then I started looking at the Toraiz more. I realised it could cover most of what I was using the Digitakt and Octatrack in combination. It has step sequencing plus the ability to parameter lock. But it's workflow is just to the point. No fluff. That makes it fun and inspiring.

But the other thing - it sounds incredible. I don't usually like the sound of Pioneer gear, but this thing sounds brilliant. I love it the more and more I used it. One pad almost acts like a whole bank of sounds if you want. It makes everything you see all there is to it. Very little menu diving. However, you really need to sit with it to get it - although it's quick to learn. I took a chance and was completely blown away by how much I liked it. It's another world.

It would be easy for them to change it to more than 4 bars. It could easily be 8 with the use of the shift button. So I'm hoping that comes with an update. However, for 90% of my work 4 is enough.

I tried the MPC Live and didn't dig it. I thought it sounded real tepid. No grunt. This thing is the opposite. Like a combination of an EPS/SP404sx on roids/and a digitakt. Great sound.

If I had to describe it to someone, and I have, I'd say for a "beatmaker" it's the main parts of an Ocatrack combined with a Digitakt, an old school workflow of a 3000 (but MUCH FASTER) along with an SP404sx. It's just to the point.

I thought I was the only beatmaker using it. Hopefully, more get on board so we keep getting updates.
Have you played with a Tempest?
Old 28th June 2020
  #69
Lives for gear
 
tengu's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael T View Post
Have you played with a Tempest?
Yes, I owned one. It's a completely different machine to the Toraiz if you are looking to compare them. It's an analog drum machine synth that doesn't sample.

Last edited by tengu; 28th June 2020 at 01:35 AM.. Reason: spelling
Old 28th June 2020
  #70
Gear Nut
 

Cool thread, nice to see some SP-16 enthusiasts. Despite the flaws and missing features I'm still glad I have it, it took me some time to realize that its simplicity is probably exactly what I need and I love the sound of course. What other gear are people using with it? Hardware-wise I only have the as-1 and just recently I got the oto bim. I've been looking for something that can play samples polyphonically or a hw digital synth to accompany the sp-16, the tasty chips gr-1 for example is very appealing (there are some demos of it on yt with the anti-aliasing turned off and it sounds very nice), but I wish it had at least some basic non-granular sample playback functionality, cause I kinda can't justify the price for granular alone. The mpc one is an option but the redundancy would probably lead to not using them much together. I see the op-1 is being mentioned, I've been ignoring it so far, mostly due to the price and the hype, maybe I should check it out.
Old 28th June 2020
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OggyOgg View Post
Cool thread, nice to see some SP-16 enthusiasts. Despite the flaws and missing features I'm still glad I have it, it took me some time to realize that its simplicity is probably exactly what I need and I love the sound of course. What other gear are people using with it? Hardware-wise I only have the as-1 and just recently I got the oto bim. I've been looking for something that can play samples polyphonically or a hw digital synth to accompany the sp-16, the tasty chips gr-1 for example is very appealing (there are some demos of it on yt with the anti-aliasing turned off and it sounds very nice), but I wish it had at least some basic non-granular sample playback functionality, cause I kinda can't justify the price for granular alone. The mpc one is an option but the redundancy would probably lead to not using them much together. I see the op-1 is being mentioned, I've been ignoring it so far, mostly due to the price and the hype, maybe I should check it out.
I would consider aN Ipad (PRO) with soundcard because there are a lot of great apps once sampled and resequenced take on a life of there own.

-Got a SP on the way and will report back.Will be going head to head with the MPC4000 and MPC 2.8 software.Im just worried its gonna feel a bit quantised and rigid.Hope there’s enough tools to open it up.......
Old 29th June 2020
  #72
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tengu's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by OggyOgg View Post
What other gear are people using with it? Hardware-wise I only have the as-1 and just recently I got the oto bim. I've been looking for something that can play samples polyphonically or a hw digital synth to accompany the sp-16
I'm using the Digitone. Amazing combination. The digitone has 4 midi tracks as well. Even though it is only 4 bars, there is a trick where you can convert a track to twice as long without 1/2 the resolution. So you effectively get 4 midi tracks of 8 bars if you need. The Toraiz and Digitone combine very well.
Old 29th June 2020
  #73
mp3
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goa-Dubs View Post
-Got a SP on the way and will report back.Will be going head to head with the MPC4000 and MPC 2.8 software.Im just worried its gonna feel a bit quantised and rigid.Hope there’s enough tools to open it up.......
The Swing is nice around 13-15. You can shift timing of individual trigs or entire tracks. And you can turn off the quantize altogether and record in real-time. So there’s a few ways to make the sequencer feel a bit less steppy.

Edit: also you can p-lock sample start points (and end points, and loop points as well), which is really effective for ghost notes among other things.

Last edited by mp3; 29th June 2020 at 01:46 PM..
Old 29th June 2020
  #74
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
The Swing is nice around 13-15. You can shift timing of individual trigs or entire tracks. And you can turn off the quantize altogether and record in real-time. So there’s a few ways to make the sequencer feel a bit less steppy.

Edit: also you can p-lock sample start points (and end points, and loop points as well), which is really effective for ghost notes among other things.
Wow thanx that makes me happy.Going by the YT vids is not very encouraging and the general public perception.Im sure i can freak this box.I know the filter can crank hard.I guess I’m after the machines soul.......If thats possible.Hope the LFO feels good.
Old 29th June 2020
  #75
mp3
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goa-Dubs View Post
Wow thanx that makes me happy.Going by the YT vids is not very encouraging and the general public perception.Im sure i can freak this box.I know the filter can crank hard.I guess I’m after the machines soul.......If thats possible.Hope the LFO feels good.
I don't think you'll be disappointed, as long as you're willing to accept the few shortcomings it does have.
Old 29th June 2020
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
I don't think you'll be disappointed, as long as you're willing to accept the few shortcomings it does have.
Good to know...
Old 1st July 2020
  #77
Lives for gear
 

I am going to post this in all caps so it's clear once and for all:

THE PIONEER TORAIZ SP-16 DOES NOT HAVE A 4 BAR LIMIT!

Each individual pattern you work on is limited by 4 bars so all you do is either let the sample ride out past 4 bars by using arrangement mode and programming the pattern to go 8, 16, 32 or whatever you want. Or you can create 2 or more patterns with the two chopped pieces and put them together in arrangement mode.

It literally takes 30 seconds to program it to go past 4 bars. I was worried about this limit when I got it but quickly realized arrangement mode let's you program past 4 bars.

I just did a song with an 8 bar sample and simply made a 4 bar pattern and programmed it to ride out 8 bars in the arrangement and the sample plays all 8 bars.

It's really easy.
Old 1st July 2020
  #78
Lives for gear
 

Gonna pick mine up later today....Lets see.
Old 1st July 2020
  #79
mp3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goa-Dubs View Post
Gonna pick mine up later today....Lets see.
Congrats! And make sure you crank the filter resonance! That's the best part of the sound IMO. It doesn't self-oscillate so the whole range of the knob is usable; I normally keep mine between noon and 3PM (with the LPF between 1-3PM) depending on how old school I'm feeling that day.
Old 1st July 2020
  #80
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goa-Dubs View Post
Gonna pick mine up later today....Lets see.
Oh man you are gonna love it! Just be patient and don't freak out thinking you can't do certain things because you will be able to. Give it time to learn. I am telling you this thing is gonna be a legendary piece of equipment. I have literally tried everything out there from my previous post and I absolutely love the Toraiz. It's all I use now to make beats.

I agree with the other post that you want to make sure you crank up the resonance and the drive! This machine has low and high pass filters on the top by the main volume knob and the filters give it such a unique sound. Your beats will hit hard as hell using the filters.

I can't even get my audio interfaces even close to the sound coming out of the Toraiz and how much the bass and drums hit. It's freakin sick!

OHHH!! Also, make sure you mess with the MODE slider on the left side. When you are recording your drums, you can do some crazy and amazing things with the hi hats using the slider. Also, you can put your sounds into SLICE mode and make some absolutely crazy chops.

I am telling you that you made the right decision. Give it some time and then let us know what you think.

I LOVE this thing.


You made a great decision buying one of these. It is such an amazing piece of equipment.

Last edited by smccarthy945; 1st July 2020 at 04:52 PM.. Reason: Add content
Old 1st July 2020
  #81
Lives for gear
 

Thanx yeah its right now in the lab ready.For sampling.Just had my fish for strength and am going down to start after this post........ “ ]
Old 4th July 2020
  #82
Gear Nut
 
dahkter's Avatar
 

Had a djs1000 for a few months, enjoyed it.
Quick tip - play at half tempo to get an 8 bar pattern.
One thing I couldn’t figure out - how do you copy a pad to another pad without going to the load screen? I like to have the same sound on multiple pads at different pitch levels to make melodies, couldn’t figure this out....
Old 5th July 2020
  #83
mp3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dahkter View Post
Had a djs1000 for a few months, enjoyed it.
Quick tip - play at half tempo to get an 8 bar pattern.
One thing I couldn’t figure out - how do you copy a pad to another pad without going to the load screen? I like to have the same sound on multiple pads at different pitch levels to make melodies, couldn’t figure this out....
The SP-16 has a scale mode where you can spread a single sample across the pads at different pitches. Does the DJS not have that?
Old 6th July 2020
  #84
Lives for gear
 

Just a heads up...I’m still digging in here and will update some thoughts when they become clear enough in my head.Like 945 said spend some time with it first.
Old 16th July 2020
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goa-Dubs View Post
Just a heads up...I’m still digging in here and will update some thoughts when they become clear enough in my head.Like 945 said spend some time with it first.
Great machine even with its simple basic architecture.Has a modern sound very different to other models old and even new.Burr Brown converters i think.Slight plastic sound but as i say modern.Nice and clear and well defined.What I found myself doing all the time now is resampling all kinds of material from my library and breathing new life into them and doing quick sketches as I’m still not used to its interface,slow learning in my own time.The P locking is amazing and works flawlessly.LFO in free mode is off the charts for creating variation and chaos......Would be happier if the pitch could be adjusted in less than 1 semitones for slight fluctuations on samples with the LFO.Not very subtle...Plus even with quantise off its still Quntising a lot but any hit can be adjusted micro p locking it Yep by step.Cool.So easy with the 16 step Buttons running along the bottom.Effects are just ok and a bit crude.But can Parameters can also be stepped in So.....Get some really good nuanced added variation on hits too.Have not done much slicing yet but i looks like lots of quick chops can be achieved.Glad to see the pads are velocity and pressure sensitive,handy for rolls ect....The filter is icing on the cake.Its worth having just for this imo.Nuff said.Im still just playing with this on a daily basis and i cant see myself selling it.Too damn useful.I can see why people have stated its awesome because its very unique combining different elements in one box.Will it take the place of best sampler/sequencer from my MPC4000?No-they are very different and to be used together.Actually they compliment each other perfectly.

Come on Pioneer-advance this box further.Do the right thing.
Old 12th September 2020
  #86
Here for the gear
 

SP-16

You talk about Toraiz for beats.

Is it ok for Acid, Techno, Rave, Hard Dance (90s and 2000s style) ?

Is it able to make that psytrance style bassline where not every note is on the grid and you make 1/16 notes with individual note swing?

Does it have any synth or just samples?

Can you use vocal hooks samples or you make only beats?

Can you power it with power bank using some adapter?

I'm thinking also about Roland MC-707 as you can buy this adapter and it has the right sounds: https://myvolts.co.uk/product/52073/...-707_Groovebox
Old 21st September 2020
  #87
Gear Addict
 

Offspring of MPC and ESX-1
without the convoluted interface of the Akai
without the noisyness and rigidity of the Korg
with a few Elektron tricks up its sleeve
Old 25th September 2020
  #88
Lives for gear
 
viewing's Avatar
as a new york sample based (traceable or not) beat maker from the 80's, i do not trust someone who talks about a machine of this type and raves to this extent about this strange thing called a 'stepp seeqwenser'(?) (forgive me if i am mispronouncing this word which i have literally never heard before
Old 4 weeks ago
  #89
mp3
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by viewing View Post
as a new york sample based (traceable or not) beat maker from the 80's, i do not trust someone who talks about a machine of this type and raves to this extent about this strange thing called a 'stepp seeqwenser'(?) (forgive me if i am mispronouncing this word which i have literally never heard before
If you’re not open to a different way of doing things then it’s probably not the machine for you.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #90
Lives for gear
 

The Pioneer Toraiz SP16 is not another beat machine.......its a state of mind
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