The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Lo-fi hip-hop will sending stems intead of bakng vinyl sim ruin the mojo?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1
Gear Addict
Lo-fi hip-hop will sending stems intead of bakng vinyl sim ruin the mojo?

How many mix engineers have an sp303 in the studio for the final mix to print to the track, or mastering engineers for that matter?
I know, I know as a beat maker, and not an engineer I should give control of the mix to the engineers, but I like the character the my 505 gives beats when I just print a 2 track.
Sometimes it is over done for sure, and can flatten some kicks, snares, and generally squash a track when pushed too hard.
However when used right it's very difficult to beat for the genre.
Am I overrating the vinyl sim? Maybe, but it's a very genre specific effect.
Ridding it would be kind of like low passing all of the sp1200 aliasing IMO.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #2
Gear Nut
 

Character like this is part of the sound design, bake it in.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #3
Lives for gear
 
PettyCash's Avatar
 

The production phase is about achieving your vision. Whatever ideas you have for processing certain elements of the beat should be handle by you before you hand your work off to be mixed by someone else.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #4
Lives for gear
I think giving the mix engineer control over all the individual parts is far more important than your vinyl sim. Generally speaking, every mix engineer is going to have a vinyl sim or two or three and other grit type plugins and can probably redo what you have without much difficulty if they have a modicum of talent. The $50 mix engineer - probably not though.

If you are nervous, you can do both. It happens at least several times a year that I will get record to mix with all the drums individual and then I'll get a drum submix. I never use the submix in my mix, but sometimes it's useful if there's a particular processing flavor the beatmaker had going on that I need to recreate (that was too subtle to hear in the rough mix, assuming I got one) - but I can easily get better punch and impact and everything with all the individual tracks. But if for some crazy reason I couldn't do better than the drum submix, I'd use it.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #5
Lives for gear
 

You could always process tracks in a 303 individually.

While you’re at it, experiment with other outboard gear, as well. Re-mic some sounds from a guitar amp or a PA. Try other samplers. Have fun.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #6
Gear Addict
 

bake it in. engineer's job is not to add flavor.
Old 1 week ago
  #7
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by knobsmcgee View Post
bake it in. engineer's job is not to add flavor.
???????

That might be your opinion, but honestly, EVERY SINGLE ONE of my mix clients wants me to put flavor into their mix.
Old 1 week ago
  #8
Gear Addict
 

interesting.
Old 1 week ago
  #9
Lives for gear
 
PettyCash's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris carter View Post
???????

That might be your opinion, but honestly, EVERY SINGLE ONE of my mix clients wants me to put flavor into their mix.
There are plenty of audio engineers out there that can do a decent mixing job, but don't necessarily have the best tastes (or specific tools) when it comes to adding the right flavor to Hip Hop joints.

If someone is choosing a mixing engineer based on what they know that person can do, that's a different story... but a lot of people just simple check out whoever is local to them, and hope that the results they end up with are worth the asking price.

In situations like that, the less creative decisions they leave for them to do, the better it will be for achieving a finished result that closely matches their orignal vision.
Old 1 week ago
  #10
Gear Addict
Earlier Chris said that budget engineer's may have trouble here, and we can't all afford to have Chris mix our projects.
In my experience budget engineer's can sometimes get everything to sit nicely in the mix with vocals, levels, and frequency balance, but aren't always the go to guy's for fat mixes with tons of mojo.
But perhaps that is the sound they are going for?
Budget samplers are widely used now, and they are terrible for tracking out.
This gets compounded by the resample method used by many sp404 users.

When an engineer wants stems they aren't available in these cases.

Madlib is an example.
The excuse I have heard is that Madlib is at a certain level that he can get away with it.........
Old 1 week ago
  #11
Lives for gear
 
Fanu's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by knobsmcgee View Post
bake it in. engineer's job is not to add flavor.
Not true.
Most producers I mix for give me notes on spicing their stuff up – and I'm happy to do so. Sometimes they cannot do to their sound what they'd like to achieve, and I'm glad to help.
Old 6 days ago
  #12
Lives for gear
 
3rd Degree's Avatar
 

I don't own an SP303 and I am not familiar with how they work, though I have played around with one. On the contrary, I see how people use them. Some use it just for some basic character, while others use the effects and filters almost as in instrument. Even though it's just fx, it is something that is a big part of the design of the sound. If the second is the case, I would certainly send the two track, and also make sure the engineer can emulate everything. If you are just adding character, and not aggressive with the knobs, I would personally just track in and send an example of what you want it to sound like.

If you find your engineer cannot match the sound and you need it to be pretty exact, I would probably do this...send all my drums out individually, and probably the bass. Then, do the effects on just the sample track (I am going to assume we are talking about sampling). That should still give the engineer enough control to mix while maintaining your creativity.

If you were not sampling, but were doing this to a 2 track, I would probably say the same as sampling, but track out as many tracks individually as possible. I don't work with a 303, again, but I do feel like certain effects would change the phase, so that would get tricky with running some melodic tracks but not others through it. I would either do 2 tracks for the melody, or just all individual, and send what you did as a 2 track.

Reason I say this, I feel there are 2 types of mixing engineers at the core. One who just makes things sound they way they feel, while adding no "creative" or "artistic touch". I use quotes because a good mix is both creative and artistic, but you wouldn't necessarily know what the engineer changed, as it wouldn't be obvious, other than it sounds (hopefully) better. The second type is one who would do some arrangement, add creative touches, maybe even add missing elements. I would probably work more with the second but make sure you are honestly about how much you want them to do, and how much you don't want them to do. Not to say the first couldn't handle it, very not the case, they may be very diligent of catching every nuance you did.

It's challenging as so many people use these machines to run absolutely completed beats through so that makes it an integral sonic and creative part of the sound, but it also is technically degrading the sound, and you are doing everything globally, to everything. Any good engineer can make magic with a 2 track, but it is always better to have everything individual, this kind of puts a challenging road block to everything being individual.
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump